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8200rpm
08-10-2007, 3:58 PM
Guy behind the counter at the Newport Beach (Riverside Ave.) office wouldn't accept a rifle barrel.:mad:

After I said NO to the "hazardous, liquid, flammable...", he asks me "what's in the package". I'm thinking to myself, oh boy this is going to be interesting. Honesty got the better of me, and I told him that it was "a barrel of a rifle". It was actually a AR15 barreled upper but I didn't tell him that.

He proceeds to tell me that firearms AND firearm parts cannot be shipped through the US Postal Service. I told him that's true for firearms (handguns actually), but not for firearms parts. He said that he just had a conversation about this with another clerk, and it's for both firearms and firearm parts unless you are a licensed dealer. He begins to tell me how this is a "big deal" and that's why he has to ask.

I wasn't in the mood to argue or waste my time. So, I left. I was tempted to go back with my C&R FFL and try again... not that it makes one bit of difference legally, but I'd rather not confused them even more. Errr!!! So, fricking irritating!!!:cuss:

So just to verify, I called the Santa Ana District USPS Business Office and explained the situation. The service rep their says, "so basically you're just mailing a pipe. Oh geez." He explains that maybe due to the nature and ambiance of the local office, they didn't take the time to read and fully understand the policy. He suggests for me to try another USPS branch, go back and have them call him, or use UPS/Fedex.

ocabj
08-10-2007, 4:17 PM
I've never had anyone ask me at a USPS Post Office what was inside a package except one time I shipped a book via Media Mail.

If and when they ask, I wouldn't mention the words 'gun' or 'firearm'. If you're shipping a barrel, just say you're shipping machined tool parts. It's not a lie.

I've never had any problems shipping firearms related items. I ship quite a few actual firearms through UPS and I usually get the same guy at the local UPS staffed office. He pretty much recognizes me and never gives me issues. I always tell him if I'm shipping a gun and whether it's a rifle, pistol, or stripped receiver.

rorschach
08-10-2007, 4:26 PM
I got grief once from a clerk (who barely spoke English BTW) at the Downey post office for sending out an HK plastic lower for a C/P job. Supervisor was called to the front, luckily he gave his blessing.

Shane916
08-10-2007, 4:31 PM
I've shipped a rifle through USPS before without a problem. WASR-10 to be exact :D Had no problems. I think a new post office should do the trick for you...although I have shipped thousand's of packages I have never once been asked what is inside of the package.. :confused: Like stated above machined tool parts sounds superb :)

Rumpled
08-10-2007, 4:34 PM
Go back to the same office and chew him up one side and down the other. Make him get a supervisor and their rule book. Cause a big stink.
You're in the right, and they are either/or idiots or antis. Set 'em straight.

8200rpm
08-10-2007, 4:37 PM
I just went back to the same post office hoping to get the same clerk. I ended up with a very nice lady, and I explained what happened when I was in earlier. She actually pulls out the regulations book, says she's curious about it herself, and goes over it but realizes she can't really make clear sense of it. She's very polite and personable, and she asks me if I got the name of the person who I spoke to at the District office. She apologetically explains that she won't hear the last of it from the other clerk if she doesn't make sure. I give her the number and name of the service rep at the District office, and she goes to the back and calls clarify. She comes back, completes the transaction, and it's over. Randall should have it tomorrow.

The other guy just seems to have issues. He also gave me a hard time when I shipped some reloading dies a couple months ago...

"What's in the package"?
"Reloading dies".
"Gun parts"?
"No, reloading dies... to make ammunition".
"Not gun parts"?
"No".

:cuss:

RudyN
08-10-2007, 4:53 PM
It seems like the first clerk was looking for an excuse to not ship "gun parts" and just wanted to stick their personal feelings into the transaction.

GSequoia
08-10-2007, 5:01 PM
Tell me...

Do you really want to furnish guns to postal workers?

CALI-gula
08-10-2007, 5:04 PM
Guy behind the counter at the Newport Beach (Riverside Ave.) office wouldn't accept a rifle barrel.:mad: ...

Just go to the USPS website, print up their own rules and regulations and package allowances/prohibitions, and shove it in the jerk's face.

THEN go elsewhere, because by that point, after making a fool out of the guy (preferably in front of other people AND to his 'supervisor') who knows what would happen to your package. :rolleyes:

.

8200rpm
08-10-2007, 5:19 PM
If you're shipping a barrel, just say you're shipping machined tool parts. It's not a lie.

I never get asked what's in the package anywhere except by this turd. Knowing this clown, if I told him it was machined tool parts, he would have asked, "what kind of tool"?

8200rpm
08-10-2007, 5:28 PM
Just go to the USPS website, print up their own rules and regulations and package allowances/prohibitions, and shove it in the jerk's face.
.

The part that they seem to get hung up on is highlighted in red...

432 Mailability
432.1 General
The following conditions apply:

a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as "handguns") are nonmailable in the domestic mail, except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.1.

b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable, except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.1 or 601.11.2.

c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted, as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.2.

d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 USC 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 432.2 b and c.

It's pretty clear to you and me, but not to the clerks at the post office. They read it selectively and apply it over-cautiously (incorrectly) in fear of their job security.

Fjold
08-10-2007, 5:40 PM
I never get asked what's in the package anywhere except by this turd. Knowing this clown, if I told him it was machined tool parts, he would have asked, "what kind of tool"?


Some of the answers are :

Particle accelerator
High speed ion delivery device.


or my favorite:

The same kind that works at the post office.

ibanezfoo
08-10-2007, 8:49 PM
The same kind that works at the post office.

Something like: "Its a little different than the one standing in front of me..." :laugh:

-Bryan

tiki
08-10-2007, 9:54 PM
How about "None of your ****ing business". I would ask what their prohibited items are and then say "it's not any of those."

jkasandiego
08-10-2007, 11:42 PM
I haven't tried USPS for shipping rifle or any gun parts.UPS store won't ship any firearms, i tried shipping a gun and instead i was directed to the main ups building.

Shane916
08-11-2007, 12:02 AM
I haven't tried USPS for shipping rifle or any gun parts.UPS store won't ship any firearms, i tried shipping a gun and instead i was directed to the main ups building.

Same with ammo as well. Quite ridiculous.

saki302
08-11-2007, 12:18 AM
I don't get asked- then again, the counter people at my local PO all recognize me.

I had to pick up a rifle there once coming in to my C&R license (missed delivery at home).
The package showed a gun business return address- the guy who retrieved it just said "I wonder what this is (wink wink)". Turned out he was into hunting!

-Dave

AggregatVier
08-11-2007, 2:17 AM
From time to time the wording in the Domestic Mail Manual changes. The latest version is always on line at pe.usps.gov:

DMM 600 Basic Standards For All Mailing Services

601 Mailability

11.0 Other Restricted and Nonmailable Matter
11.1 Pistols, Revolvers, and Other Concealable Firearms

11.2 Antique Firearms
Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6.

11.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e.

11.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.

Section 432 has been deleted and is no longer binding.

You did the right thing by calling the District BSN or BME. You must also be a business customer. :)

You've got to remember there's a good chance you'll run into someone who knows nothing about firearms and needs to be educated. If the clerk is deliberately misrepresenting postal regulations because of personal animus or political beliefs, they need to receive a discussion, a letter of warning, and then further disciplinary corrective action for failure to follow instructions if they continue. Be sure to ask the window supervisor, in front of the clerk, about this. The buzz words contained will get the message across very potently. You're not there to be their friends. You're there to do legal business.

leelaw
08-11-2007, 2:21 AM
I had an issue with a USPS counter jockey about shipping a rifle before. He wouldn't listen to my politely explaining the USPS regulations to him, ciing that he's worked at USPS for "twenty years" and "used to do all the firearm transfers and worked with ATF agents" so he knew what he was talking about. I tried again to get him to understand and he refused, saying that I was trying to break the law.

At this point I was fed up and brought out the cipies of the USPS regulations on the subject, particularily this one:

11.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.

I then spoke with the station manager who was very concerned about Mr. Counter Jockey giving out bad information and breaking USPS regulations.

They accepted the package. It's just a matter of finding someone with a brain in there.

--

I went to a different station to ship some other rifles, and the guy behind the counter asked if I "have all the paperwork." I asked what he meant and he got this blank look on his face. "I don't need any paperwork" <Jedi mind trick> "...you.. don't.. need.. any.. paperwork.." <waves hand> "You can ship my package now" "...I.. can.. ship.. your.. package.."

AggregatVier
08-11-2007, 2:39 AM
Yes, but what did the window clerk say afterwards? Did he apologize?

If he's still at that office, could you please give me the ZIP Code? Thanks!

supersonic
08-11-2007, 6:01 AM
It seems like the first clerk was looking for an excuse to not ship "gun parts" and just wanted to stick their personal feelings into the transaction.

Yeah, using the "machined tools" answer would have fit, because you were basically dealingwith a GIANT one (TOOL!) in the first place!!!!!!!!:D
S.S.:43:

CavTrooper
08-11-2007, 6:31 AM
UPS has always shipped rifles and ammo for me. They have thier rules however and sometimes it requires going to thier central location but if the owner of the local UPS store is smart and a decent individual its never a problem. If im unfamiliar with the store however I do state that the package contains "sporting goods" or "machined parts". The "sporting goods" works well though because it is absolutely, undeniably, true. When I insure it, they sometimes ask "what kind of sporting goods cost that much money?" to which I generally reply "have you seen how much them titanium golf clubs cost?". Not making a statement, not saying there is golf clubs in the box, just asking a question, and moving on with my day.

shark92651
08-11-2007, 8:49 AM
I ship products out of the Newport Beach post office on Camelback St, off MacArthur all the time. They have never asked whats in the package, although I do get the occasional "anything hazardous, flammable, etc..." to which the response is "No". At UPS I got a "what's in the package" once and the response was "sporting goods", now they don't even ask. I am in there so often they just tell me to leave it on the counter if they are busy with someone else. I am never in UPS for more than 10 seconds - I wish I could say the same for the Post Office. Sounds like you just got a mis-informed clerk with a bug up his rear.

TonyNorCal
08-11-2007, 10:06 AM
Th path of least resistance is simply not to say there's a gun/gun part in the box.

Satex
08-11-2007, 12:59 PM
Next time take the clerk's name and file a complaint with the USPS postal inspector.

tankerman
08-11-2007, 4:11 PM
I had a similar experience at a Newport Beach Post Office. I refuse to accept what i was being told and was referred to their office (a door inside) where the lady running the show asked a couple of questions, then straightened out the counter person and I was able to mail the parts. The most irritating part was how loud the counter person got when they found out I was trying to mail gun parts, drawing the attention of everyone else in the Post Office in an obvious attempt to make me look as though I was doing something illegal. The clerk made no attempt to apologize.

glockman19
08-11-2007, 5:38 PM
I recently shipped a Stag upper back to Stag @ USPS Store in Woodlan Hills and had no problems I told the clerk exactly what is was and tha tit was basically a non functioning rifle barrel with plastic around it. Stag got it sent me another within a week. NO FFL, NO Problems.

I guess it just depends who you get.

rohanreed
08-11-2007, 7:38 PM
I agree that it completely depends on who is on the other side of the counter.

I shipped a rifle out of the Malibu post office. Wasn't asked about the contents but volunteered the info in case there was anything special needed for the package. Stated it was a rifle, unloaded and disassembled, clerk didn't so much as blink. She didn't need to inspect to verify or have me sign any certification. Just said 'ok' and finished the transaction.

ViPER395
08-11-2007, 10:17 PM
The lady at the USPS desk looked at my 10/22 trigger group funny (doubletake too) when I got it shipped out for a trigger job. She didn't ask anything tho, and accepted it and that was that.

phil conrad
08-11-2007, 10:26 PM
I once had a problem with a clerk refusing to send a rifle to the factory for repair. I asked to speak with the postmaster. It was done in a timely manner. I suspect this person is anti gun.

ghettoshecky
08-11-2007, 11:33 PM
so how would I ship ammo then? Is it considered a flammable item? If so how do you ship ammo?

8200rpm
08-12-2007, 12:14 AM
You did the right thing by calling the District BSN or BME. You must also be a business customer. :)



I actually called the 877 national customer service number. The service rep referred me to the "Mailing Requirements Office" which was actually the USPS Santa Ana District Business Center. I have no account with USPS and explain that I was simply a residential customer to the District BSN; they were still more than willing to help.

The guy at the Newport office (Riverside Ave) just wanted to make a "big deal" out of it. He was rude, condescending, and ill-informed, improperly trained, or just plain incompetent.

-------------------------------------------

You cannot ship ammunition via US Postal Service (USPS). You must use a common carrier... United Parcel Service (UPS) or Fedex... the ammunition must be packed in boxes with at least a 200 pound bursting strength and be marked on the outside "ORM-D".

You cannot use a "UPS STORE" to ship firearms. These are individually franchised businesses similar to Mail Boxes Etc. UPS policy strictly prohibits this. You must go to a UPS distribution hub to ship firearms via UPS.

I would never attempt to violate the policy of a private business or DOT regulations. I just don't like being treated like a criminal when I try to use the post office for a perfectly legal transaction.

Sal
08-12-2007, 12:39 AM
whenver im questioned when shipping any type of firearm parts/airsoft/paintball gun stuff i just say that its "sporting goods" and i usually dont get questioned any further.

other than that the post office clerk was probably just anti gun and or a moron who hadnt properly read the rulebook.

gunluvver
08-12-2007, 8:12 AM
so how would I ship ammo then? Is it considered a flammable item? If so how do you ship ammo?

Ammo is prohibited in the mail. UPS or Fedex.

ViPER395
08-12-2007, 9:13 AM
Ammo is prohibited in the mail. UPS or Fedex.

And it must go GROUND.

I made a UPS shippers account online, and now if I ship something I wrap it up myself and email them and they send a truck. They don't ask what it is, and I don't put "FIREARM" or "GUN PARTS" on the box. Just insure it for what you can prove it's worth.

Screw those people at the counters. They don't need to see what I ship or ask questions about it.

RobG
08-12-2007, 9:50 AM
I have shipped a rifle and shotgun through them. The first time I declared it a rifle and the clerks all gathered around to check out the rules. All but one was shocked to see they allowed it. None were jerks about it though.

loneeagle308
08-12-2007, 2:10 PM
I just shipped a disassembled rifle . A few days ago I had the package wrapped in shipping tape. Went there after reviewing their website. Told the girl I am shipping a firearm. She says she needs to see my badge and supervisors paperwork. I tell her I am not a cop. The girl next to her says you have to be a dealer to ship out of state to a dealer. I told her she is wrong and I want to speak to her Sup. She says the post master will be in at 10 am and she gets her other supervisor. She looks at the box and says she thinks it is ok. I tell here I got 3 opinions and none are right. The other pipe up saying their boss told them they can't ship. Turns out I had the wrong tape for registered mail so she got my # and the post master calls me. Asks me all the right questions except wants to know if it has a firing pin in it. I said of course not! So I thought I had the right tape, masking tape. Go there and see the guy I talked to on the phone after another employee was not sure about shipping it. They then correct me on the right tape but have no idea where to buy it. Eventually I got it right and went to a different USPS and sent it without a question asked and no answers given for whats in the box.

gloxter
08-13-2007, 7:17 PM
Clerk: "Anything hazardous? Flammable? Blah? Blah? Blah?

Me: "No Sir"

Clerk: "Bluegrass Armory?"

Me: "Yes Sir"

Clerk: "It's pretty heavy" (given it's size)

Me: "Yeah, I have to return the bolt 'cause the extractor broke"

Clerk: "That'll be $9.50 including the insurance"

Me: "Have a nice day"

Clerk: "You too"


I love country livin' !

Technical Ted
08-13-2007, 7:25 PM
What's in the package?

Machine parts (As long as it's parts)

Technically it's the truth. No need for any shipper to know that the machine that it is a part of happens to propel a projectile with chemical combustion.

Fate
08-13-2007, 9:04 PM
The guy at the Newport office (Riverside Ave) just wanted to make a "big deal" out of it. He was rude, condescending, and ill-informed, improperly trained, or just plain incompetent.

Lodge a formal complaint. One of my best friends is a postal carrier and the amount of grief "management" gives someone who's had a complaint lodged against them is massive. It can even include time off without pay or in a worst case scenario, dismissal.

ask80
08-14-2007, 7:09 PM
had no problemos when i shipped 2 10 rnd bushmaster mags ... i asked for a package for it. and the guy was inspecting it closely. and i just said they were "2 CA legal 10 round empty magazines" and he as like" ok.cool" this was in buena park next to knotts

FatKatMatt
08-14-2007, 7:29 PM
That's strange. I've had a long gun and long gun parts shipped via USPS with no problems, the clerk that was helping me started up a conversation about how he got an Enfield 1917 from the CMP while I was there though, so that might have been a factor. Just try and go to a different station or use a different clerk.

GammaRei
08-15-2007, 12:55 PM
Yeah my faith in the USPS is fading. Last week I went to the post office to mail some stuff to Japan for my wife. I went in explained to the lady (SF USPS, Chinese lady, barely speaks english) that the packages were going to Japan. She stuck the correct paperwork on the box, the second package I didn't pay attention to (my fault) and she stuck domestic airfare on it and tossed it aside. I got back to work, and realized my mistake, ran back to the post office and asked them to recall the package (theres a form for it). The lady says something to another co worker in chinese who then comes up to me and says that there is nothing that I can do and I should leave. It was a birthday gift for my mother in law, and still has not arrived in Japan.

- Gamma

ViPER395
08-15-2007, 12:57 PM
The lady says something to another co worker in chinese who then comes up to me and says that there is nothing that I can do and I should leave. It was a birthday gift for my mother in law, and still has not arrived in Japan.

I'm sure they were commenting on your lovely tie, and not calling you a stupid American... ya ya off topic

guns_and_labs
08-15-2007, 1:50 PM
You cannot use a "UPS STORE" to ship firearms. These are individually franchised businesses similar to Mail Boxes Etc. UPS policy strictly prohibits this. You must go to a UPS distribution hub to ship firearms via UPS.


I don't believe that's true, unless it's very recent. As of when I last checked, the UPS rules say you have to use a hub for handguns. And you must declare it to be a firearm.

The policy on long guns is determined by the franchisee. UPS Store does not ship long guns, but there are several franchisees that do, including my local Box Guy. That said, he much prefers dealing with FedEx, as UPS nevers seems to honor its insurance on damaged long guns.

1064chubbs
08-15-2007, 2:56 PM
I shipped a couple of ak 30 round re-build kits through USPS I did not have a box so I just took it in a bag, asked a lady if she could get me a box when asked for what I just showed her the bag with the springs clearly visible and she just took it stuck it in a box and off it went.:)

ViPER395
08-15-2007, 2:59 PM
What's in the package?

Machine parts (As long as it's parts)

Technically it's the truth. No need for any shipper to know that the machine that it is a part of happens to propel a projectile with chemical combustion.

It's a single cylinder engine. Powder fuel, not gasoline. :cool:

zeek1974
08-15-2007, 4:11 PM
USPS sucks. I get asked all the time "what's in the package" so after the last time I go either FedEx or UPS..never aksed anything other than "doe it contain hazerdous materials"

USPS probably doesn't want to ship your gun since those folks tend to go nuts once in a while and shoot up thier co-workers :68: