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dfletcher
08-10-2007, 2:03 PM
I'm hearing that under pressure from the DNC the "pro - gun" Democrat has just come out for closing the "gun show loophole" - anyone have any further info?

That didn't take long and points out the futility of relying on individual politicians to be pro - gun when the home office is against it.

CalNRA
08-10-2007, 2:07 PM
do you have a link for the story?

dfletcher
08-10-2007, 3:27 PM
do you have a link for the story?

No - got it off another site.

Everything I've seen on him is pro - gun and he had an excellent NRA rating. I've checked his website and didn't find any info, but if anyone else has info I'd like to ask that it be posted.

EBWhite
08-10-2007, 3:30 PM
He is also pro give things away to illegals and pro gay marriage.

johnny_22
08-10-2007, 4:07 PM
The guy with his "baby" AR and how would it be protected? Richardson said that he supports the second ammendment, but, with background checks even at gun shows. Biden's answer that there is something wrong with that guy calling an AR a "baby" got the most press.

dfletcher
08-10-2007, 6:30 PM
The guy with his "baby" AR and how would it be protected? Richardson said that he supports the second ammendment, but, with background checks even at gun shows. Biden's answer that there is something wrong with that guy calling an AR a "baby" got the most press.

I presume making that little joke allowed him to get away with not answering the question. His answer would of course be you have no right to own a gun, especially an AR, and I support a ban on anything that goes "bang".

CCWFacts
08-10-2007, 6:42 PM
My opinion is that the NRA should stop defending unpapered P2P transactions. The "gun show loophole" is the wrong issue to get behind. Us law-abiding gun buyers and sellers have no need for non-papered transactions. The only people who need this particular option for buying guns are people who can't pass NICS. No rights are beyond regulation.

E Pluribus Unum
08-10-2007, 7:16 PM
There is a lot of political favors and pressure... just because a politician votes a certain way does not mean he believes that way on the issue..... many times it means that he cares more about another issue than he does that one.....


For example..... Two bills are being considered....

1) The "Adam and Steve Act of 2007" that requires the acceptance of gay marriage.

2) the "Return to common sense and constitutionality act of 2007"; repeals most of the gun bans and allows law-abiding citizens the RIGHT to get a CCW with a background check.


If I were a politician and approached with... hey.. if you vote for number 1.... we'll vote for number 2..... I would do that in a heartbeat even though I am against gay marriage.


Get the drift? My republican rival next election would argue "That guy voted into law a Bill allowing gay marriage" without mentioning that it was just to get the gun repeal passed.

This is why you should not listen to propaganda... do the research yourself.

Rob P.
08-11-2007, 7:19 AM
There's a lot of things being tossed about regarding all of the candidates. As has been pointed out, a lot of things being said are being distorted or taken out of context in order to make points for some other candidate.

Richardson is Pro gun and Pro second amendment. Always has been. The fact that his comments show a sense of responsibility and accountability is commendable. Unfortunately what is happening is the rabid gun nuts are twisting his stmts that gun show transfers need oversight into an "anti 2A" or "he's a closet gun grabber" facade.

It's wrong, they know it, but you don't win points in politics pointing out that your opponent is a better choice than you are.

jumbopanda
08-11-2007, 7:25 AM
He also wants to insure all illegal immigrants, so I think I'll pass.

stag1500
08-11-2007, 7:56 AM
My opinion is that the NRA should stop defending unpapered P2P transactions. The "gun show loophole" is the wrong issue to get behind. Us law-abiding gun buyers and sellers have no need for non-papered transactions. The only people who need this particular option for buying guns are people who can't pass NICS. No rights are beyond regulation.

Excellent point! If the NRA feels so strongly about supporting people who wish to sell firearms without any paperwork, they should fight to repeal the Gun Control Act of 1968 which creatd this 'prohibited persons' category. After all, the GCA of 1968 comes from the Nuremburg Laws the Nazis wrote during the 1930's! :mad:

CCWFacts
08-11-2007, 8:22 AM
Wow I thought I was going to get flamed for what I said.

Anyway... it's really hard for the NRA to talk about how legitimate gun ownership is, and how regulated it is, and how all gun owners have to pass background checks, if guns can be bought and sold with no documentation at huge gun shows. I see gangsta looking types at gun shows regularly. Maybe they aren't gangstas. Maybe they are totally fine upstanding people who work as librarians or something. But whatever, I go on my intuition, and my intuition says, I have seen, repeatedly, criminal type people at gun shows and they are there to buy stuff that they can't legally own. This is the wrong issue for the NRA and gun owners to be supporting. Either we have NICS for all transactions, or we throw away NICS entirely. Anyone in the criminal world must be perfectly aware of gunshows and non-papered transactions.

anothergunnut
08-11-2007, 8:59 AM
Al Gore was an A rated senator when he was a TN senator. How things can change when a politician gets onto a national stage.

What government agency issues permits for people to purchase printing presses? What government agency issues permits for people buy bibles? Merely possessing a weapon, any weapon, does not hurt anybody. The crime should be in how it is used.

MudCamper
08-11-2007, 10:44 AM
Richardson is the only pro-2A democratic candidate. If you're a democrat, vote for him.

CCWFacts
08-11-2007, 1:21 PM
What government agency issues permits for people to purchase printing presses? What government agency issues permits for people buy bibles? Merely possessing a weapon, any weapon, does not hurt anybody. The crime should be in how it is used.

False comparison. Printing presses can cause harm, such as copyright violation or libel. However, those forms of harm can be redressed with fines and compensation. That type of harm isn't beyond remedy. Printing presses are also not easily susceptible to harmful use. Bibles even less so; no harm can come from possessing one, or buying and selling them.

Guns, on the other hand, are highly desirable to criminals, and are easily susceptible to harmful use, and the harm caused by a gun cannot be remedied.

This is obvious stuff. That's why the regulations that are reasonable for gun ownership, like NICS, are more strict than the regulations necessary for printing press ownership, such as, well, not much regulation except after the fact stuff like copyright laws.

E Pluribus Unum
08-11-2007, 1:39 PM
Guns, on the other hand, are highly desirable to criminals, and are easily susceptible to harmful use, and the harm caused by a gun cannot be remedied.

What about cars, gasoline, kitchen knives, pipes, rope, nails.

Download and read the anarchist's cookbook.... it is VERY easy to make something MUCH more deadly than a gun out of common household items.

The difference is that not everyone uses a gun in everyday life so in order to feel safe they start banning them.

With nothing more than gasoline and vasoline one can make an explosive substance that has the properties of plastic explosives. One gallon of gasoline has more explosive power than a stick of dynamite. We sell things over the counter every single day that are potentially more dangerous than any gun ever sold to the public so please do not buy into the theory that safety has anything to do with the gun ban.

Gun bans are passed for two reasons:

1) Politics. They are "tough on crime" because they passed a gun ban.

2) The government's desire to lessen the populous's ability to defend itself.

peepshowal
08-11-2007, 1:42 PM
Printing presses are also not easily susceptible to harmful use. Bibles even less so; no harm can come from possessing one, or buying and selling them.

Guess your Sunday School Teacher never clunked you on the head with her King James Version for not paying attention in class.:7:

Rhys898
08-11-2007, 2:08 PM
I have seen, repeatedly, criminal type people at gun shows and they are there to buy stuff that they can't legally own. This is the wrong issue for the NRA and gun owners to be supporting. Either we have NICS for all transactions, or we throw away NICS entirely. Anyone in the criminal world must be perfectly aware of gunshows and non-papered transactions.


Um, you can't buy any guns at a gunshow without going through a dealer for the transfer and waiting the 10 days. Gangbangers can walk around gun shows all day long, but I rarely if ever see people walking out of gunshows with guns. And I'm pretty sure that most of those that do walk out with guns brought in with them in the first place.

The only "loophole" to the waiting period that I know of would be if you were sold a C&R long gun by a C&R Licensee. And I think the gunshow posts that all deals have to go through an 01 FFL.

I would have very little objection to NICS if it was in fact an Instant Check. or if the California legislature treated it as such.

Jer

supersonic
08-11-2007, 2:23 PM
He is also pro give things away to illegals and pro gay marriage.

Just curious, because you seemed to insinuate it, but is there some kind of problem with a gay couple who want to have the same marriage rights as we "NORMAL" people? If I misread into your comment, then my mistake. If not, please elaborate.:confused:
S.S.:43:

Osprey
08-11-2007, 2:41 PM
He endorsed and signed into law New Mexico's shall-issue law in 2003.

Does that mean that he'd push a national right-to-carry law if he somehow becomes the nominee and wins the presidency? I doubt it.

The point is, regardless of other issues where some of us may be his diametric opposites, he's much more of a Second Amendment supporter than many of the Republican candidates (*cough* Rudy McRomney *cough*)

I urge every gun owner who is a registered Democrat to support Bill Richardson.

dustoff31
08-11-2007, 5:55 PM
He endorsed and signed into law New Mexico's shall-issue law in 2003.

Does that mean that he'd push a national right-to-carry law if he somehow becomes the nominee and wins the presidency? I doubt it.

The point is, regardless of other issues where some of us may be his diametric opposites, he's much more of a Second Amendment supporter than many of the Republican candidates (*cough* Rudy McRomney *cough*)



Not that I would vote for him, but you have to give him his due. He also signed the NM reciprocity bill late last year or eariler this year. So he just might support national reciprocity.

CalNRA
08-11-2007, 6:58 PM
His seemingly pro-gun stance now is a poor indicator of his future actions. Will he be able to resist all the Dem pressure if he's in office? It's easy to be friendly to the gun owners in NM, but it would be a *little* different in DC.

His legislative record is good, but his stance on other important issues doesn't work with me.

I guess I'm not a single-issue voter after all.

BTW anothergunnut, do you have a link or something to the A-rating of Al Gore?

dfletcher
08-11-2007, 7:34 PM
Um, you can't buy any guns at a gunshow without going through a dealer for the transfer and waiting the 10 days. Gangbangers can walk around gun shows all day long, but I rarely if ever see people walking out of gunshows with guns. And I'm pretty sure that most of those that do walk out with guns brought in with them in the first place.

The only "loophole" to the waiting period that I know of would be if you were sold a C&R long gun by a C&R Licensee. And I think the gunshow posts that all deals have to go through an 01 FFL.

I would have very little objection to NICS if it was in fact an Instant Check. or if the California legislature treated it as such.

Jer

Actually I believe that's a California thing. In most of the country if you live in the same state it's cash & carry. I sell you my property, you pay me cash.

As a suggestion - first because it's a great show and second because it's refershing to be reminded how the free folks live - visit a NV gun show and just watch the guns legally change hands without a dealer. As you walk up to the show you'll see alot of people walking out with their new purchases.

dustoff31
08-11-2007, 10:06 PM
Actually I believe that's a California thing. In most of the country if you live in the same state it's cash & carry. I sell you my property, you pay me cash.

As a suggestion - first because it's a great show and second because it's refershing to be reminded how the free folks live - visit a NV gun show and just watch the guns legally change hands without a dealer. As you walk up to the show you'll see alot of people walking out with their new purchases.

Yeah. I was going to mention that too, but I didn't want to rub it in.

Steyr_223
08-12-2007, 12:27 AM
"I urge every gun owner who is a registered Democrat to support Bill Richardson."

Doing that already..

DedEye
08-12-2007, 2:04 AM
"I urge every gun owner who is a registered Democrat to support Bill Richardson."

Doing that already..

Same here.

JohnJW
08-12-2007, 1:57 PM
Richardson is the only pro-2A democratic candidate. If you're a democrat, vote for him.

I am a registered Republican but I support Richardson.

I look back and I regret voting for Bush back in 2000. The sad thing is that after almost eight years of King George on the throne, I kind of miss Clinton, not his wife though. . . . Politics is odd. I wonder where are all the pro Bill of Rights politicians these days. Except for a sprinkle of muffled oppositions, most of the pro gun Republicans has held their silence as rest of our constitutional rights get shredded to pieces. . . . wiretapping, kidnapping, imprisonment without due process, torture. . . . . is this still America? Yet, we are distracted by Karl Rove's politically engineered issues like gay marriages and illegal immigration. . . .

I don't think our 2nd Amendment right will last too long with the other 9. . .

supersonic
08-12-2007, 5:51 PM
"I urge every gun owner who is a registered Democrat to support Bill Richardson."

Doing that already..

Even my neighbors (who are a lesbian couple- one being an award-winning professor at CA. DAVIS) who bring their GLOCK'S over to me for service? Nah, don't think so.
S.S.:43: