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Toolbox X
08-10-2007, 1:06 PM
A lot of guns in CA are illegally transferred from one person to another. One person has money, the other person has a gun, they swap, the end.

This is not good because it is how criminals get their guns, and criminals hurt our gun rights.

The official private party transfer (PPT) process is:
1. Find an FFL somewhere for both parties to go to.
2. Pay $35 (or more).
3. The buyer and seller must fill out the DROS paperwork.
4. The firearm(s) must then stay with the FFL for 10 days
5. Last, the buyer must make a second trip back to the FFL between 10 and 30 days after filling out the DROS, to pick up the firearm(s). Hopefully the FFL is close by, eh?

I think most of us will agree: THIS PROCESS SUCKS!!!

It's really easy to understand why people just swap money for the gun in a parking lot.

This is my idea for Private Party Transfers:
1. No waiting period.
2. Any Police or Sheriff station can perform the PPT, and run an instant background check.
3. The cost is FREE.

There could even be a table setup at gun shows by the local sheriff or police to handle PPT's at the show.

If this were how PPT's were handled I believe a lot more gun sellers would go through the official process and a lot fewer criminals would get their hands on guns.


Your thoughts?

-Grant

megavolt121
08-10-2007, 1:11 PM
I wouldn't mind going to an FFL for a transfer IF they take off that 10 day waiting period B.S. I have no problem driving from the Bay Area to Sac to do a transfer, its needing to drive back 10 days later to pick it up that makes it inconvenient.

I just think if we could do away with the waiting period in general we would be better, heck I don't mind restricting the waiting period to handguns only, and only for your first handgun purchase.

bwiese
08-10-2007, 1:14 PM
Good theoretical idea.

BUT... cop shops don't wanna do this, or they want a budget for it. Budgets to help people get guns more quickly ain't gonna happen.

Carole Midgen even proposed a law that deals with a card for delivery of a handgun to a buyer. (DROS just says after 10 days you can have it but is not really proof of delivery/acquisition).) With instant check already possible and with her card offering proof of ownership of one or more handguns, that's already set up to allow instant gun transfers.

Remember that a big fraction of the legislature wants to beat up on gun owners. No new laws that created crimes punishable by prison were really allowed to get out this session (as I understand) for budgetary reasons - except for guns.

So don't expect anything to change unless we have legislators by the balls.

Frankly there are more laws we need to attack than these aspects.

tiki
08-10-2007, 1:28 PM
although it sounds great i don't think it will happen anytime soon.bof says the waiting period is for the time it takes to check someones background as well as a cooling off period.there is a more likely chance that people with ccw's not having to wait the 10 days and that i don't see happening anytime soon either

I love the cooling off part. Let's make a person that already owns 5 guns have a cooling off period. IDIOTS.

dfletcher
08-10-2007, 1:35 PM
A lot of guns in CA are illegally transferred from one person to another. One person has money, the other person has a gun, they swap, the end.

This is not good because it is how criminals get their guns, and criminals hurt our gun rights.

The official private party transfer (PPT) process is:
1. Find an FFL somewhere for both parties to go to.
2. Pay $35 (or more).
3. The buyer and seller must fill out the DROS paperwork.
4. The firearm(s) must then stay with the FFL for 10 days
5. Last, the buyer must make a second trip back to the FFL between 10 and 30 days after filling out the DROS, to pick up the firearm(s). Hopefully the FFL is close by, eh?

I think most of us will agree: THIS PROCESS SUCKS!!!

It's really easy to understand why people just swap money for the gun in a parking lot.

This is my idea for Private Party Transfers:
1. No waiting period.
2. Any Police or Sheriff station can perform the PPT, and run an instant background check.
3. The cost is FREE.

There could even be a table setup at gun shows by the local sheriff or police to handle PPT's at the show.

If this were how PPT's were handled I believe a lot more gun sellers would go through the official process and a lot fewer criminals would get their hands on guns.


Your thoughts?

-Grant

I was at Chabot last week. I had a M1A Loaded model, fellow near me had a Scout. We chatted a bit and learned each would kind of like to have the other's rifle and were it an immediate thing, we might have swapped. At the time we both mentioned how foolish CA law is - here we are at the range, each having more than one gun already. But we can't do it because we have to ask "permission". So your theory seems good to me.

But the "this is how criminals get guns" assertion is something I'd get away from. What you propose is actually how it's done in most of the country - I want to buy your gun, you take the $$$ and we're done. It's your property and you just sold it.

With respect to PD doing the "transfer" at no cost, keep in mind there are about 1,100 guns DROS'd in CA every day. That's $7.63 million to the state in fees and that money, not love of the 2nd Amendment, is probably what causes politicians to keep guns legal in CA. I'm all for an instant background & a card (Las Vegas has similar approach) from the PD and I'd probably pay $25.00 for it over the $19.00 & waiting 10 days.

Toolbox X
08-10-2007, 1:36 PM
Forget the politics for a minute.

I'm trying to work on ideas that would be EFFECTIVE.

If we ever want things to change we need to offer good ideas that would really work. That's what I'm trying to do here.

PPT Status Quo
People sell guns under the table to criminals in gun show parking lots because the official PPT requirements suck so much.

Toolbox PPT Idea
Fewer people sell guns under the table to criminals in gun show parking lots because it is so easy to do a PPT right there at the show for free, with no waiting period.

Forget about the politics. Would this work? Would fewer criminals get guns under the Toolbox PPT, compared to the current PPT process which is avoided alltogether by criminals?

-Grant

lawnrevenge
08-10-2007, 1:37 PM
I'm all for the option of getting a card stating that you own at least one firearm and therefore the 10 day wait is pointless. I know many are opposed to this type of thing that is why I said is should be an option. Basically the background check would performed, and the only 10 wait would be your first, after that when buying any gun you just present your government issued "I already own a gun" card (with you address so it can also be proof of residency) they call it in, take your money and all is good.

The funny thing is that this plays into the whole "preventing crimes of passion" lie.

blkA4alb
08-10-2007, 1:39 PM
PPT Status Quo
People sell guns under the table to criminals in gun show parking lots because the official PPT requirements suck so much.


I would venture to say that they sell them illegally not because they look at the PPT requirements and say "Wow, that sucks." but because they don't care about being legal.

Toolbox X
08-10-2007, 1:47 PM
I would venture to say that they sell them illegally not because they look at the PPT requirements and say "Wow, that sucks." but because they don't care about being legal.

Exactly!!!

The fact remains that a person has a gun, thus he has the power to hand someone else that gun, regardless of whatever laws exist.

We can never stop everyone from doing illegal PPT's. That would be impossible.

But the current PPT process creates a LOT of incentive to do it illegally, and almost ZERO incentive to do it legally.

I believe that a lot of people who do illegal PPT's would do it legally if it were easier.

-Grant

dfletcher
08-10-2007, 1:54 PM
It is a general axiom of business that the easier a process is the more people will use that process. The same would apply to guns.

CavTrooper
08-10-2007, 1:56 PM
That "I already own a gun" card idea aint half bad!
Whats the point of making a person who already has a gun in the house wait 10 days for his next? I mean, its logical and all, and if shot down by the powers that be, could easily be used to demonstrate the insanity of gun laws.
Its stupid that you already have to go through the hoops you do, but this may actually make things easier for both FFLs and buyers. Would it really need to be a card anyways? I mean the CA DOJ already keeps records of every gun owner in CA dont they? One call to the feds for a go on your 4473 and another call to the state "FFL: Joe Schmoe buying a pistol (add pers. info) DOJ/BOF: Not Joes First purchase, you may proceed."
Makes sense, so of course, itll never fly.

Fjold
08-10-2007, 2:08 PM
Illinois has a firearm owner's identification card. They made it a requirement for anyone to own a firearm. Their latest gun grab is that they made it mandatory renewal process after 5 or 10 years. They just started going through their old files and contacting everyone who had a FOID card and haven't renewed it and prosecuting them for illegally possessing firearms and confiscating their guns.

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

WokMaster1
08-10-2007, 2:09 PM
Nah! it'll never work. It just makes too much sense that the politicians in Sactown are afraid the sheeple might see the light & "oops! game over!"

Besides you are cutting off funds to pay for Carol Midget's new driving program. I don't think she will like that. Especially it's the gunnies that tripped her. she needs more (as the Brits would say) medcine.:p

megavolt121
08-10-2007, 2:31 PM
Illinois has a firearm owner's identification card. They made it a requirement for anyone to own a firearm. Their latest gun grab is that they made it mandatory renewal process after 5 or 10 years. They just started going through their old files and contacting everyone who had a FOID card and haven't renewed it and prosecuting them for illegally possessing firearms and confiscating their guns.

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

IIRC, they issued one of those cards to a toddler of ~18months old!