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DBA Samsun
08-10-2007, 10:01 AM
Well got into an argument with someone at work about the 2nd amendment, he things all the "sniper" and large caliber rifles don't need to be in the hands of "citizens" because they are "unnecessary" and according to him the 2nd amendment rights weren't meant for "citizens", only well regulated militias is how he interpreted it:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

bwiese
08-10-2007, 10:12 AM
Talking further to idiots like this is like putting lipstick on a pig: it doesn't offer any improvements and just makes the pig mad.

fairfaxjim
08-10-2007, 10:17 AM
Talking further to idiots like this is like putting lipstick on a pig: it doesn't offer any improvements and just makes the pig mad.

Yeah, but when all is said and done you can have a good laugh at the idiot, er pig.

dfletcher
08-10-2007, 10:32 AM
Well got into an argument with someone at work about the 2nd amendment, he things all the "sniper" and large caliber rifles don't need to be in the hands of "citizens" because they are "unnecessary" and according to him the 2nd amendment rights weren't meant for "citizens", only well regulated militias is how he interpreted it:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."



Just tell him "It's true. I was trying to change your mind - but you're not giving me anything to work with".

Darn that's a good line - feel free to use.

aklon
08-10-2007, 10:32 AM
Rather than argue, turn the thing to your advantage by getting the idiot to think the consequences all the way through. Ask the following: "Once the Second Amendment has been turned into a privilege and then revoked, for how long need the gornment put up with an unrestricted press?"

This one gets the newspaper and television morons everytime.

WokMaster1
08-10-2007, 10:50 AM
Apply all the Cal restrictions on the First Ammendment like someone posted on this forum. I can't find it now. Damn my search-fu!:D

Toolbox X
08-10-2007, 12:35 PM
Just remember, the 2nd Amendment only applies to flintlock muskets. It was never intended to apply to modern firearms.

And of course the freedom of the press mentioned in the 1st Amendment only applies to feather pens and parchment. Video camera's, satellite TV, and internet news websites are not protected.

MudCamper
08-10-2007, 12:41 PM
There is just no point in talking to some people. Reason means nothing. They have too many years of asinine dogma embedded in their brains. There are people out there that beleive things like: "It is more noble to be a victim than to defend yourself." "I'd rather be murdered than kill." "If you're being raped, offer the rapist a condem." These people are insane. Arguing with them will just drive you insane as well.

Point them to Oleg Volt's website:

http://www.a-human-right.com/

If that doesn't budge them at least a little, then they are a lost cause.

jkasandiego
08-10-2007, 1:12 PM
Don't waste your time arguing with those idiots.

sako
08-10-2007, 1:30 PM
I recall a conversation I had with a former coworker, who imigrated here from Hong Kong. Although he graduated from a California university and had become a citizen, he had never heard of the 2nd ammendment. Although he had some interest in learning about firearms, he could not understand why someone in this country could buy a gun without aplying and getting permission from some government official. When I told him that being able to own a firearm is one of the freedoms we have in this country, his reply was..."maybe it it not a good idea for people to have too many freedoms"

hoozaru
08-10-2007, 1:34 PM
take him to a range, let him shoot ur OLLs
a round is worth a thousand words

WolfMansDad
08-10-2007, 2:09 PM
I've never seen an argument change someone's political position.

Just invite him to go shooting with you some time. Lot's of anti's change their minds that way. I think with a lot of them, the resistance they have is more jealousy than anything else. Once they get to have some fun themselves, they are less opposed to other people doing it too.

hoffmang
08-10-2007, 2:17 PM
One of the best ways to counter the militia argument is to point the person to the definition of militia in Federal law which can be paraphrased as all males physically capable of bearing arms who are 18-45.

-Gene

kap
08-10-2007, 3:06 PM
It is also useful to point out that the BoR does not grant rights to citizens. Rights are unalienable, you are born with them and noone can take them away. Instead, the BoR does limit the power of the government. Since that is the case there is no way the 2nd amendment could be interpreted to limit citizens rights to own firearms.

Rumpled
08-10-2007, 3:42 PM
I just thought of this one.
Use the able bodied 18-45 male militia angle.
Get the idiot lib to see that is sexist and make it apply to women also.
Point out the age discrimintion and the idiot lib will have to see it applies to all ages.
Point out the discrimination against the disabled vs able bodied and now the second amendment applies to all people.
Even though it already did.

Also, use their argument in reverse and point out everywhere in the BoR that mention people or persons and say that those are only collective rights. See how far that works for them.

dwtt
08-10-2007, 4:05 PM
Why even bother with the anti-gun liberals and their demented views of the Bill of Rights? Just channel the energy into defending the 2nd A by joining the NRA, attending your local member's council meetings, go shoot a match every month, buy more guns, and keep current on proposed legislation so you'll know when to send out faxes and mail to your corrupt politician. :)

DIG
08-10-2007, 4:55 PM
Well got into an argument with someone at work about the 2nd amendment, he things all the "sniper" and large caliber rifles don't need to be in the hands of "citizens" because they are "unnecessary" and according to him the 2nd amendment rights weren't meant for "citizens", only well regulated militias is how he interpreted it:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

It's hard to talk to people like that. He should just go home and water his frigg'n plants. Liberals like him only pay attention to the buzz words given by the media. They tend to dramatize issues so much that they are barely recognizable to anyone actually familiar with the topic. Wait until the day he actually needs to defend himself (think of the movie "As good as it gets" -har, har), he'll wish that he had a firearm for protection.
Hopefully he doesn't spread the word around the office of your conversation. Most liberals use the words "gun" and "gun nut" synonymously. You'll know if you start catching wary glances from coworkers. hehe

hoozaru
08-10-2007, 5:07 PM
I'm gonna jack Tiki's post from an earlier thread :D

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=64617&highlight=tiki


No, I prove my manliness with your daughter. I like to go to the range with the guys during the day so that I don't have to listen to her yelp like a yorkshire terrier about wanting me go to the mall and walk around looking at crap that I don't want or need. Although, the mall snapper is nice this time of year.

The machine gun shoot is not a way to prove manliness. Its a chance for people that don't own them to try them out. Why don't they own them? Because the cost of owning is too much for most hard working Americans due to stupid laws pushing thier costs up.

Maybe we should go prove our manliness by hanging out with you at the golf course. Yeah, i'll slip on a pair of those checkered pants and get a hat with the little pom pom on it and spend my day trying to get a little white ball in a hole in the ground with a little metal stick.

Or, maybe I can go watch a bunch of horses run around a track while my wife, built piece by piece by Dr. Plastic, walks around with a stupid hat on big enough to shade a small yard.

Maybe I can spend my Saturdays like you will. Hanging around in my front yard comparing my lawn to my neighbors lawn while I keep an eye on my kid hoping that some pedophile doesn't snatch him off my lawn. Some pedophile who should be in prison but got let out because they had to make room for someone who had a detachable magazine and a pistol grip on thier gun.

I'll spend my Saturday nights like you, cowering in my home behind a locked door and an ADT security system hoping that some crack head, won't kick my door in and use my wife or daughter like a plastic f**k doll while I watch because I sold my gun to the city for a $100 Ikea gift certificate and voted for all the a**holes that made guns illegal.

How's that sh*tbag.