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winston1911
12-15-2012, 4:40 PM
My brother just did his LTC renewal in San berdo. He says the two things that really stuck with him were not to carry a revolver and the other was that changing the "color" of your gun was a misdemeanor.

He was very insistent that the instructor stated that you could not change the color of your gun. My problem, or concern is that I just got a lower for my wife that I want to duracoat blue and make a fun personalized gun for her. Literally I am about to wrap the lower and the duracoat. Do I have a concern? I can't get my head around how this could be a problem, but this is Cali. Any new laws?

The class was last week. My renewal is not for a few months so i cant confirm, but the bigger issue for me is that I have an PSA upper on the way and a lower I want to coat for Xmas. I don't my wife to hav any issues with a new range toy.

aklover_91
12-15-2012, 4:42 PM
His instructor was full of it.

tacksman
12-15-2012, 4:42 PM
I know in the military blue usually indicates inert, or training. Not sure the legalites for civilians.

ElDub1950
12-15-2012, 4:46 PM
'not to carry a revolver'?? Was he told that was illegal or was it some instructors opinion?

CSACANNONEER
12-15-2012, 4:47 PM
ANY color is legal to paint, own and use.

winston1911
12-15-2012, 4:58 PM
'not to carry a revolver'?? Was he told that was illegal or was it some instructors opinion?

No, she just gave a very convincing argument against it. My brother had an LCR on the permit, he now wants to change it to another option.

Kolo589
12-15-2012, 5:06 PM
Perhaps he was thinking of Bloomberg banning duracoat in NYC?

DSB
12-15-2012, 5:07 PM
Here is a link to the same discussion about painting a gun from earlier this year
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=556556

winston1911
12-15-2012, 5:23 PM
Here is a link to the same discussion about painting a gun from earlier this year
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=556556

Read that before I posted.

If this is FUD, why would a respected (San berdino) instructor leave a student with this opinion.

I have meet her and really respect her professional attitude and pro-LTC stance when I had my interview.

BTW, her anti-revolver stance is hard to argue against.

CSACANNONEER
12-15-2012, 5:29 PM
Read that before I posted.

If this is FUD, why would a respected (San berdino) instructor leave a student with this opinion.

I have meet her and really respect her professional attitude and pro-LTC stance when I had my interview.

BTW, her anti-revolver stance is hard to argue against.

She's just plain wrong. That's all. She either needs to cite the actual law or quick spreading FUD.

Her anti revolver stance is nothing more than her opinion based on her experiences and education. There are going to be times when a revolver is the best choice. In fact, for my situation around my home, a revolver and a shotgun are my primary carry weapons. The revovler will cycle shotshells without hesitation. I do not have a semi auto handgun that will do the same. My revolver of choice is loaded with three shotshells and two hydrashocks during snake season and carried everytime I step outside.

Dieter
12-15-2012, 6:19 PM
My brother just did his LTC renewal in San berdo. He says the two things that really stuck with him were not to carry a revolver and the other was that changing the "color" of your gun was a misdemeanor.

Well, don't know about color - The only thing I've ever come across is 12020.3 pertaining to "bright orange" and "bright green" being some kind of taboo.

The thing about revolvers just sounds silly, but that's just me.

Grizzled Bastard
12-15-2012, 6:26 PM
My preference is a semi-auto but I do own numerous revolvers and have been through quite a bit of training in addition to my wife and I both being NRA Certified Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun Instructors, RSO's, etc. I'd love to here the reasoning behind the anti-revolver stance. Perhaps I can learn something.

I have NEVER heard or seen anything that I can recall pertaining to the color change question.

quiet-wyatt
12-15-2012, 6:31 PM
BTW, her anti-revolver stance is hard to argue against.

So what was her anti-revolver stance?

quiet-wyatt
12-15-2012, 6:32 PM
Her anti revolver stance is nothing more than her opinion based on her experiences and education.

Exactly...

winston1911
12-15-2012, 7:55 PM
I agree, her opinion of a carry gun is just that opinion. But she does have real life experience on her stance. Granted I did not hear it first hand, but the argument was good. Basically, you need more ammo.

But my question goes back to DYI gunsmith Can this be an issue?

lilro
12-15-2012, 8:24 PM
For clarification, did the instructor say it was illegal to change your firearm color at any time, or that changing the color of a handgun that is listed on a CCW is illegal?
Considering how the CA handgun roster works, I can see the latter being possible.
Don't some CCWs list which weapons are being carried?
I've heard about other states that allow you to have a certain number of firearms "on" your permit, and you have to qualify with that particular handgun to get it on your permit.

Bruce
12-15-2012, 9:31 PM
So what was her anti-revolver stance?

I'd like to hear that too, having carried one 40 hours a week for ten years.

killmime1234
12-15-2012, 9:35 PM
ANY color is legal to paint, own and use.

Actually, I believe it's illegal to pair real firearms orange or bright green because they might be mistaken for toys. I'll look for the PC right now.

ETA: ah, found it:
12020.3. Any person who, for commercial purposes, purchases, sells,
manufacturers, ships, transports, distributes, or receives a
firearm, where the coloration of the entire exterior surface of the
firearm is bright orange or bright green, either singly, in
combination, or as the predominant color in combination with other
colors in any pattern, is liable for a civil fine in an action
brought by the city attorney of the city or the district attorney for
the county of not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000).

It actually looks like painting it either of those colors once you already possess the firearm (i.e. it is not being transferred in such a configuration) it may still be legal.

frankm
12-15-2012, 11:36 PM
No, she just gave a very convincing argument against it. My brother had an LCR on the permit, he now wants to change it to another option.

That's a load right there. Tell your bro a revolver is a-okay. Unless the zombies come, then you want 17 round mags. :facepalm:

CSACANNONEER
12-16-2012, 3:05 AM
Actually, I believe it's illegal to pair real firearms orange or bright green because they might be mistaken for toys. I'll look for the PC right now.

ETA: ah, found it:


It actually looks like painting it either of those colors once you already possess the firearm (i.e. it is not being transferred in such a configuration) it may still be legal.
Yep, I worded my statement carefully. I, too, believe that and color is fine as long as it is not being offered for sale.

Kharn
12-16-2012, 3:34 AM
Red is for inert dummies, blue for force-on-force (Simunitions, etc) training weapons

BillCA
12-16-2012, 4:10 AM
Actually, I believe it's illegal to pair real firearms orange or bright green because they might be mistaken for toys. I'll look for the PC right now.

ETA: ah, found it:
The new code section for it is PC 23800 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=6627959898+3+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve).


It actually looks like painting it either of those colors once you already possess the firearm (i.e. it is not being transferred in such a configuration) it may still be legal.

Or not. The term "manufacture" may cover your painting the gun. Part of it will depend on whether the prosecutor can qualify it as "for commercial purposes" as opposed to personal preferences.

Don't some CCWs list which weapons are being carried?
I've heard about other states that allow you to have a certain number of firearms "on" your permit, and you have to qualify with that particular handgun to get it on your permit.

Last California CCW application I saw allowed you to list three (3) weapons. It required you to list them by serial number along with make, model, finish, barrel length. Your carry guns were limited to those specific guns only.

Other states, like Nevada, have different policies. Nevada now allows you to list "revolver" and carry any wheelgun. Last I heard, for Semi-Autos you either listed a specific make/model or the generic reference to their "class" of pistols -- e.g. 1911. It was part of an effort to ensure people were carrying guns with which they were familiar and capable of shooting. Other states just indicate "revolver", "pistol" or "other" (e.g. Derringers).

Wrangler John
12-16-2012, 4:39 AM
No revolvers? Don't tell my old friend in Oregon about that. He caries an S&W J-Frame hammerless scandium snubby .357 Magnum loaded with Hornady .38 Special +P Critical Defense ammo in his coat pocket. He has another similar rig, this one a SA/DA in a belt rig. Tells me that in his part of Oregon it isn't uncommon to walk around with your hands in your coat pockets. In the event of uncommon nastiness, he says you already have your hand filled with revolver, and merely pop the bad guy three rounds through the coat (hence the Hornady ammo). Then it is a simple matter to draw it out and either finish the job, or shoot until empty, drop the first revolver and go to the belt rig with a bit of precision if needed.

When he goes hiking up Smith Rock he carries a semiauto because it's easier to conceal under a tee shirt. Otherwise it's revolvers.

I tend to agree. Having carried many years ago, I used a S&W M&P in .357 Magnum. The aforementioned friend and I practiced with thousands of rounds of ammo, I even shot the old primer powered plastic bullet or wax bullet practice loads, at home in the garage until I could get first-shot heart shots on a silhouette target in fractions of a second. While I was at it I practiced quick draw from a buscadero gun fighter rig with a Ruger Super Blackhawk firing .44 Special loads (not at home of course), yes with all 7.5" of barrel. Do it enough and speed can be attained wherein all six rounds hit the center of a standard silhouette target center chest, within a second or two firing single action.

17 Rounds of spray and pray is okay, but five or six rounds of well practiced instinct shooting is going to resolve the issue post haste. It just depends on how much practice time there is available, and how much effort is expended. If you can play a flute and chew gum at the same time, you're there. :facepalm:

OleCuss
12-16-2012, 5:12 AM
I like semi-autos better for carry, but the idea that revolvers are a bad idea is going a bit too far.

On the color? I think (not entirely sure) there is also something in the code about how you cannot change the color to make your firearm "invisible". But since I've never heard of a paint which would actually make something invisible, I think you're safe there.

And one could argue that by "invisible" they mean camouflaged, but if you take a nice black gun and put it against a black backdrop it's gonna be camouflaged. Same thing with brown, pink, or whatever.

As suggested above, I'd avoid bright orange and bright green. I'd also generally avoid painting a gun all blue.

phrogg111
12-16-2012, 6:45 AM
My brother just did his LTC renewal in San berdo. He says the two things that really stuck with him were not to carry a revolver and the other was that changing the "color" of your gun was a misdemeanor.

He was very insistent that the instructor stated that you could not change the color of your gun. My problem, or concern is that I just got a lower for my wife that I want to duracoat blue and make a fun personalized gun for her. Literally I am about to wrap the lower and the duracoat. Do I have a concern? I can't get my head around how this could be a problem, but this is Cali. Any new laws?

The class was last week. My renewal is not for a few months so i cant confirm, but the bigger issue for me is that I have an PSA upper on the way and a lower I want to coat for Xmas. I don't my wife to hav any issues with a new range toy.


I believe that California law says that you are not allowed to have a gun painted mostly orange or blue. This is referring to bright colors, mind you.

I imagine that coating the lower receiver alone wouldn't qualify, but if you had the whole gun coated bright blue, that probably violates the law. I think it says something like it's illegal if more than 50% of the gun is bright orange or bright blue, and might hint at other neon colors being illegal, too.

If you do a dark blue camo job, you should be fine, though.

strokesdmb
12-16-2012, 6:50 AM
Not sure if this thread is serious

ARfan23
12-16-2012, 8:37 PM
Every single firearm sold in California has to be approved (i.e., approved list). If a particular company comes out with a new color scheme (e.g., bi-tone) on an already existing model they manufacture, the new color of that same model by that particular manufacture must also be approved for California retail sale. However, I am uncertain if one is allowed to modify the coloration of their firearm post purchase. I know that much, ... if you want to be absolutely certain it is still legal--do not modify the coloration of your firearm. Once you go black, you never go back!

Anchors
12-16-2012, 8:41 PM
Every single firearm sold in California has to be approved (i.e., approved list). If a particular company comes out with a new color scheme (e.g., bi-tone) on an already existing model they manufacture, the new color of that same model by that particular manufacture must also be approved for California retail sale. However, I am uncertain if one is allowed to modify the coloration of their firearm post purchase. I know that much, ... if you want to be absolutely certain it is still legal--do not modify the coloration of your firearm. Once you go black, you never go back!

That is only for handguns and there are ways around it.

Anchors
12-16-2012, 8:43 PM
"Bright orange" and "bright green" are so subjective, as well as the language of "commercial", as well as less than probably .01% of LEOs knowing or caring about this that I wouldn't worry about it.

Paint it dark orange or bright neon yellow and it doesn't qualify.
Don't offer it for sale.
Don't get in trouble with it.

Even after all that, it is a civil fine according to the PC quoted, $10k is still a lot, but yeah.

But really, those are some pretty fugly colors for a gun anyway (personal opinion).

Grizzled Bastard
12-16-2012, 8:45 PM
I don't believe a color change of an otherwise unchanged previously approved handgun fits the criteria to force a test submission. It's things more significant like what Glock did on the Gen 4 that triggers such results.

Army
12-17-2012, 7:36 AM
I would rather have 6 well placed shots, than 15 flying around doing no damage.

Glock22Fan
12-17-2012, 7:58 AM
I would rather have 6 well placed shots, than 15 flying around doing no damage.

I'd rather have fifteen well placed shots!

Seriously though, I'm happy with 8, as long as it's my 1911 I'm carrying.

Blademan21
12-17-2012, 9:47 AM
San Bernardino County LTC lists handguns by,make,serial number,caliber,model,not color. Paint it.

stix213
12-17-2012, 11:06 AM
I can smell the FUD from here.

The only color change I would avoid is painting the tip orange, but I don't even think that is a law.

2nab
12-17-2012, 12:31 PM
The main violation I smell in this thread is ignorant advice. The other possible violation would be for a CCW holder to concealed carry a firearm not listed on their CCW permit. CCW permits may be different in different counties, states but basically firearms are listed by make, model, caliber, and Serial number (some may include color or finish). However, changing the color or finish of a firearm does not change which firearm it is. Therefore painting it purple doesn't change the Serial #, make or caliber, so therefore nothing is violated. When it's time to update your CCW permit, change the color descriptor if applicable and enjoy your newly finished firearm.

This whole thread seems nonsense. Am I missing something?

krazz
12-17-2012, 1:53 PM
If I remember correctly, when I had my last renewal class in San Berdo, the instructor (also a female), was talking about how it is not recommended to alter your carry firearm in ANY way, due to the fact that if you ever are in a firearm related event, this can be looked upon by a jury that you had a willingness to kill. She recommended that you use only a factory handgun, in a purely factory form...ie you want night sights, buy a handgun with night sights from the factory, or have night sights factory installed. It seemed like a stretch to me, but you never know.

As for it being illegal to paint you carry firearm? I seriously doubt she would say something that is untrue. Your brother may have not understood her too well. Also, she does have a stance on not carrying a revolver, and I don't remember her reasoning. I didn't listen to that part. Tell your brother to take a couple of CCW courses, especially since he is so easily swayed by a few words from some semi-retired sheriff, and make up his own determination.