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El Toro
12-13-2012, 7:45 PM
Ive owned Chevy Blazers and Jeeps over the years and feel they are pretty rugged.

If you were to pick a 4x4 vehicle for the SHTF MadMax scenario where few vehicles make the grade, which make, model and year would be best? Id want to have a vehicle that I could scavenge alot of parts off dead vehicles by the road. Which 4x4s are the most common? Im leaning towards Jeeps, but there are alot of Fords, Dodges, Chevys and Toyotas that would be east for canabalizing parts.

Ninety
12-13-2012, 7:48 PM
I like the Toyota.. just a few different size bolts lots of them on the road. good gas mileage. not the fastest thing on the road but they will get you pretty much anywhere you need to go.. 85 and earlier.. SFA .. land cruiser fj40 the wagon.. 4runner.. or a jeep.. those are pretty damn rugged too. but i'd rather push my Toyota then drive a Heep ;)

El Toro
12-13-2012, 8:00 PM
Right on!! Im thinking fewest bolt sizes means fewer tools. So for the sake of argument, the ideal 4x4 has to be one that can be worked on in the worst of conditions with the fewest tools and I can scavenge parts from the largest number of sources.

TheChief
12-13-2012, 8:11 PM
The Ford F-150 has been the number one selling truck for how long now?!

I would go with a mid 80's Ford Bronco or F150.

border.bandito
12-13-2012, 8:14 PM
late 80s/early 90s Jeep Cherokee 4x4

nuff said

11HE9
12-13-2012, 8:21 PM
I have a '72 Landcruiser with a mostly stock drive train (second case, stupid low gearing and ARB lockers added), and a lifted '91 landcruiser (with an extra old-school carbed engine for it just in case (EMP:TFH:) )

randver
12-13-2012, 8:24 PM
1999 toyota 4runner 4x4 v6.

holds more then a jeep. and you see 3rd gen 4runners all over the place.

oh ya i already have one lol.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee94/docadw/offroad/Carveacre-march11/DSCI0239.jpg

BigJ
12-13-2012, 8:25 PM
Nothing with a computer. And I would probably avoid anything fuel injected too.

Honestly, if we're talking Mad Max, I'm going military diesel. Gas keeps for a month, maybe. Diesel keeps for years. No telling when you'll be able to fill up again.

So for me that would mean a CUCV from the early-mid 80s. All the key parts are interchangeable with any other GM 1500 truck/Blazer from the time, but since they were built well stronger in every way that matters you probably won't need 'em.

Hah wow look what the google machine turned up. This is an ad from 1984. Very cool!
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i205/Metrodps/CUCV%20Pictures/army_cucv-1.jpg

damon1272
12-13-2012, 8:26 PM
The Ford F-150 has been the number one selling truck for how long now?!

I would go with a mid 80's Ford Bronco or F150.

+10. One of the toughest trucks out there and dependent on what power train you get it in you have 40+ years worth of Ford products to scavenge from.

El Toro
12-13-2012, 8:43 PM
late 80s/early 90s Jeep Cherokee 4x4

nuff said

Are these carb or throttle body? How interchangeable are parts from earlier Jeeps? I like Chevys because the SB350s and 30 years of trannys are virtually interchangeable. But, I would be leary of any 80s computerized trans or throttles.

chiselchst
12-13-2012, 8:44 PM
The best VALUE/DEAL you can get, i.e. the best price.

For hardcore reliability, select a solid axle front & rear. Something common, parts easy to get.

Any GM or Jeep (or Dodge?) would meet that criteria. The Ford F150's have that crap Front suspension, IMHO. But the F250's and above have the better solid axle front drive gear.

But the main thing, IMHO, is to get the best value. Make sure you are comfortable with the vehicles maintenance, etc. And how it runs.

Has the guy changed the oil, like in the transfer case and diffs? Is he a finactic on syn oils? Can he speak of the religious maintenance he's done?

If he can't, be aware - and and cautious.

You'll have a GUT feeling, use it. I have always purchased used cars, and I have always driven them well past 175K w/o any problems.

When something seems weird, or wrong, avoid it...

Best of luck

11HE9
12-13-2012, 8:54 PM
Nothing with a computer. And I would probably avoid anything fuel injected too.

X2 this^^^

This is one of the reasons why I jumped on the opportunity to pick up a spare Toyota F motor... simple carberator, and points ignition. I have a spare for the 40, or if need be I can convert the 80 to a "Dumb" motor :D

Scuba951
12-13-2012, 9:16 PM
Toyota.

cycle61
12-13-2012, 9:29 PM
Early 80's military diesel Blazer.

I see it's been posted above. I already have a 1-ton dually with that powertrain. It would be damn near unstoppable in a light 4wd.

ewarmour
12-13-2012, 9:31 PM
Bobbed duce

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/miscellaneous/393666d1222648061-big-4x4-sale-bobbed-deuce-49-tires-rockwells-100_1001.jpg

El Toro
12-13-2012, 9:41 PM
Toyota.
Yeah but which model and year? Makes a difference with ease of working on, availability of parts, reliability of older vs newer technology.

Early 80's military diesel Blazer.

Yeah the 6.2L Diesel is pretty common and I like that you could swap standard GM parts on. That engine isnt the easiest to work on though. I think there are alot more Wonder bread trucks with Cummins BT4 engines and I have read where folks have dropped those into Toyotas and Jeeps

Bobbed duce
Coolness factor is like 90+ but those are not gonna be as common as a Dodge truck.

packnrat
12-14-2012, 12:09 AM
seeing as i have it already a 1984 cj-7 and it is all set up to go anywhere i want to.

but if a choice i would like to get a very old school MB. nothing fancy here, goes like the devil and NO computers to f-up and leave you stranded.


but if money was no object...:43::facepalm::eek::D


.

Cheep
12-14-2012, 6:05 AM
My Jeep Scrambler-kinda roomy for a Jeep, big tires and lockers-goes almost anywhere, Chevy drive train-power and easy to find parts.

rockhead
12-14-2012, 6:40 AM
184728

20mpg . Reliable. Capable.

4DMASTR
12-14-2012, 6:56 AM
If I could have any? It would be an MRAP. Most likely choice would be a 70's Chevy pickup/Blazer

jrock
12-14-2012, 7:32 AM
All the side by side owners will be loving life.
Climb like goats, good on gas ..

You can find those diesel blazers military surplus.
I have a 4runner. Uber reliable, very capable stock 4x4, cheap upgrades(locker, suspension, tires) get em thru rubicon.
@ same storage as single cab w/shell on it.
Nice flat sleeping area.

cannon
12-14-2012, 7:54 AM
SHTF vehicle criteria

1, 4X4
2, Hauls enough family, supplies and stuff
3, Easily found parts
4, reliability
5, Solid fron axle
6, Non electronic ignition, no computer controlled engine, No fuel injection
7, Commonality of bolt and nut sizes
8, Easy to repair or replace parts

Many later model vehicles have metric and SAE nuts and bolts. Along with electronic ignition and engine computers so they are out.

Old military meets all the criteria except easily found parts. Otherwise an M37 would probably win.

To meet items 1 through 8. I'd suggest a pre electronic ignition/computer chevy 3/4 truck or suburban. Parts literally everywhere. pretty durable vehicle too. They come in gas or diesel and most important of all. They are not expensive to buy and are easy to repair. Lots of room under the hood and plenty of room under the frame for extra fuel tanks.

Extra bonus: If it is 1975 or older. No smog required.

DTOM CA!
12-14-2012, 9:01 AM
I think a diesel would be best because you could use veggie oil when the gas runs out. Or maybe the Mad Max V8 Interceptor car that you can turn on the blower manually (jk).

Foresight88
12-14-2012, 9:16 AM
Multifuel Engine Bobbed Deuce for its ability to run on gasoline, diesel, kerosene, old motor oil, veggie oil, etc. though I think I would do just fine in my 06' Jeep LJ

TheChief
12-14-2012, 5:02 PM
Multifuel Engine Bobbed Deuce for its ability to run on gasoline, diesel, kerosene, old motor oil, veggie oil, etc. though I think I would do just fine in my 06' Jeep LJ

The Deuce is nice while it works. When it breaks though you aren't gonna find anything to fix it unless you happen to be near abandoned others deuces.

buster1960
12-14-2012, 5:08 PM
Most any 4X4 thats pre 1975. No computers. No smog crap.
Either that or a V.W. powered sand rail. They will run on gas, diesel, kerosene, vegetable oil, just about anything and, there easy to work on.

deckhandmike
12-14-2012, 5:21 PM
If it's mad max SHTF just pick whatever one you want. When things go horribly wrong there is going to be cars abandoned all over.

MB3
12-14-2012, 5:22 PM
84'-85' Yotr' Extended cab w/ Sliding rear win, A/C, P/S, 5 spd, and the indestructable 22R Inline 4.

guns4life
12-14-2012, 5:24 PM
Wrangler, king of 4x4.

guns4life
12-14-2012, 5:25 PM
The Deuce is nice while it works. When it breaks though you aren't gonna find anything to fix it unless you happen to be near abandoned others deuces.

There's a joke in there somewhere, I'm certain of it.

MB3
12-14-2012, 5:37 PM
http://dualsport-sd.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=11757

skyking13
12-14-2012, 5:54 PM
The Ford F-150 has been the number one selling truck for how long now?!

I would go with a mid 80's Ford Bronco or F150.

This is what powers the new 2013 Ford F150.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tEqwXrqzH4

PM me if you want to make an outstanding deal on one. Ford dealer on CA central coast for more than 25 years.

www.jimvreelandford.com

KevinB
12-14-2012, 6:08 PM
Completely disagree. Any EMP event that has enough power to wipe out your car or trucks electronics, you are dead anyways.

Any late model 4 by 4 pickup that is capable of hauling a heavy load and pull a trailer also. All the preparation in the world isn't worth spit if you don't have room for it.

Having multiple spare tires will serve you well. I have a winch that fits in a trailer receiver in the front or rear of my pickup. It serves me well.

paul0660
12-14-2012, 6:12 PM
If SHTF and you think which of the big three makes a difference,


Kiss your *** good bye.

dls
12-14-2012, 6:16 PM
Theres a small blk Chevy on every street. so GM would probably be the easiest scrounge parts.

ucbruins
12-14-2012, 7:05 PM
Ford SVT Raptor!
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/attachments/off-topic-discussion/112225d1289090150-oh-my-gadddddd-ford-raptor-2010_ford_f-150_svt_raptor.jpg

Muleskinner
12-14-2012, 8:44 PM
What gas station are you going to?????

xpbprox
12-14-2012, 8:54 PM
Get a FORD, I agree, they've had the best selling truck for sometime now!

The DD 6.2 diesel is garbage, especially when its un-turboed. I don't see too many of them but when I do, they are overheating. Unless you know your way around a diesel, I would probably stick to gas. Things don't usually go wrong on diesels but when they do, they sure do go bad and expensive.

Any old Cummins, International is GTG
The 6BT and DT360 are great engines because they are straight 6s, 6 injectors instead of 8! The DT360 is better because its a wet sleeve design and you can do a more or less rebuild without taking it to a machine shop

sintax
12-14-2012, 8:59 PM
late 80s/early 90s Jeep Cherokee 4x4

nuff said


+1000

Without a doubt this is the way to go. Make sure you get a 4x4, 4.0, 231 transfer case (part time) and I perfer the AW4 automatic transmission. You cant ask for a more capable, dependable rig.

wheels
12-14-2012, 9:47 PM
This is what powers the new 2013 Ford F150.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tEqwXrqzH4

PM me if you want to make an outstanding deal on one. Ford dealer on CA central coast for more than 25 years.

www.jimvreelandford.com



That's an impressive test in that video, goes to show what happens when you trust your engineers to bring a company back.

KWalkerM
12-14-2012, 10:04 PM
isnt the chevy small block the oldest continuosly produced engine in the world? i vote for a chevy or toyota. im biased i guess since my yota has a chevy small block v8 :D

here she is a little muddy and slightly flexed
http://s1279.beta.photobucket.com/user/KWALKERM1/media/flex1-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=11#/user/KWALKERM1/media/flex1-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=11&_suid=1355551415724019993932714773482

pkbirdog
12-15-2012, 5:58 AM
How about a Chevota

http://http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m582/pkbirdog/IMG_0288_zps8434f2c1.jpg

pkbirdog
12-15-2012, 5:58 AM
http://http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m582/pkbirdog/IMG_0288_zps8434f2c1.jpg

pkbirdog
12-15-2012, 5:59 AM
ok. nevermind.

pkbirdog
12-15-2012, 6:00 AM
<a href="http://s1133.beta.photobucket.com/user/pkbirdog/media/IMG_0288_zps8434f2c1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m582/pkbirdog/IMG_0288_zps8434f2c1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

ki6ojv
12-15-2012, 6:53 AM
Lot of opinions but NOT a lot of good ones.

Just to prequalify this, I am an off road instructor and have wheeled with every vehicle mentioned.

There are only really 3 options at the top of the list

Older pre 89 toyota diesel or 22re engine
blazer or suburban
Jeep, cherokee or wrangler


As for the toyota you could get them with solid axle front and in diesel but the 22re 4cylinder is really reliable engine and billions made so easy to find parts. no big upgrades to these since they were built right from the beginning.

the blazer is an Icon and parts are bountiful, came in diesel and 350 and once again there were billions made. Pre 82 diesels had high nickel blocks and held up forever. needs suspension mods to beef up the axles and steering.

Jeeps are dime a dozen and parts are eveywhere. 4litre straight 6 is a great motor and upgrades are cheep on these. I wish they made these in diesel. and a Rubicon is called that for a reason.

Cars not to get!
Fords: other than early trucks with front solid axles the Suspension is horrible off road and will limit you.
Land Rovers. Greatest vehicle on and off road but parts and computers for days.

BTW I have a land rover Discovery and would not trade it for any of the above. Built right from the word go and will take you places you would not take any of the other options without upgrades. Downfall as i said is part are expensive and not as available but i want strength and that is how they are built. Solid axle and comfortable.

xpbprox
12-15-2012, 7:08 AM
.

Cars not to get!
Fords: other than early trucks with front solid axles the Suspension is horrible off road and will limit you.

Where did you pull this information out of?

BajaJames83
12-15-2012, 7:35 AM
I'd go with 97-04 4 runner. They get decent gas mileage parts are very easy to find ( if you need them) really easy to work on.
Most of the drive train parts are interchangable with the tacomas, tundras and some other models as well. I have a 98 tacoma (4cyl 4x4 5spd) 97 t100 (3.4l v6 4x4) and 04 tacoma (3.4l v6 4x4) and they all use the same oil filter, and share many other of the same parts.
You really can't go wrong with toyota

Horton Fenty
12-15-2012, 7:41 AM
Toyota Hilux. Top Gear proved you can't kill one.

cannon
12-15-2012, 7:52 AM
Toyota Hilux. Top Gear proved you can't kill one.

Soo true, too bad finding one in diesel like they tested is like finding hens teeth.

BadCompany
12-15-2012, 2:08 PM
jeep cherokees of any year have mostly interchangable parts since they were mostly the same from 1988 to 2001. next time you go out see how many cherokeesyou see and youll see that they are not in short supply. plus they are easy to work on. the same pretty much goes for wranglers. ive had both and they both do very well on any terrain

82fb
12-15-2012, 3:24 PM
[QUOTE=ki6ojv;9925777]

Just to prequalify this, I am an off road instructor and have wheeled with every vehicle mentioned.
Land Rovers. Greatest vehicle on and off road
QUOTE]

I have only wheeled easy stuff like rubicon, dusy, hammers, etc, so my opinion may not be worth as much as yours, but land rovers don't make it anywhere near the top of the list. I have seen a few of them on the rubicon over the years(never seen them on the dusy, fordyce or hammers)and it was a rock-stacking, active spotter event that I had to wait behind for half an hour. Put down motor trend and 4 wheeler magazine and go wheeling and see what works.

CSACANNONEER
12-15-2012, 3:33 PM
I own 3 4wds (Subaru, Power Wagon and Discovery) and I only see two choices. It's either a pack animal (horse, mule, donkey, llama, alpaca, etc.) or a mountain bike.

spetsnaz
12-15-2012, 3:47 PM
75 f250

ElvenSoul
12-15-2012, 5:02 PM
Smart Car for the win...if it gets stuck just pick it up...seen this done.

Intimid8tor
12-15-2012, 5:15 PM
In a SHTF scenario you want no computers, easy parts availability and rugged.

Something with a Chevy 350 in it is going to be the winner.

I like the older 4 runners - Pre-86, but in 85 they went EFI. Not as many on the road as stuff with small block chevys.

Every parts house carries all sorts of parts for SBC and some carry crate motors (If you had to break into a summit racing warehouse).

I would say a mid 80's Suburban before they went TBI. We have an 88 Suburban that is TBI. It's fine, but it still relies on a computer. We could convert it to carb relatively easily if we needed to.

As has been mentioned, be prepared for the maintenance. It's often not big, but it can be constant. Not necessarily more than others, but the vehicles are old and things are wearing out.

Just the other day, our Suburban started to fall on it's face when giving it gas. Now I have to diagnose and figure out what is causing the problem. At the same time, even if a particular part is not causing the problem, while I am in there taking things apart there are some compelling reasons to just change the part so it doesn't go out next year. For instance, the EGR valve on the suburban could be the problem. It may not be as I haven't tested it yet. It's also 25 years old and has close to 200K miles on it so I might change it anyway to ensure it won't be a problem in a year. That part is $60-$80. Those little things add up.

Norcalkid
12-15-2012, 5:48 PM
I am thinking of getting a KLR 650. The main reason, I miss riding. But the more I think about it, it would make a great BOV. Don’t have to worry about traffic jams, fast, go anywhere, can carry a couple days supplies with boxes, inexpensive, has the range to make it to my families ranch on one tank of gas.

HDgasser
12-15-2012, 6:06 PM
My ultimate SHTF vehicle will be an 04-06 2500 4x4 suburban.

Of course. NOT stock!!

Straight axled, coil overed, 4-6" lift with 35" tires and bead locks. Full Exo cage with a huge rack holding a couple full size spares, solid steel huge zombie bumpers fully outfitted with winches front and rear and of course you can't forget a full line up of Rigid LED light bars all around...

And last but certainly not least by any means is the drive terrain!

I'm going to have a fully built twin turbo 2006 LBZ duramax backed by a bullet proof fully built Allison. Tuned to run on bio diesel and have a couple 50+gal diesel tanks outfitted somewhere around the rig to hold up my 1000+mi range expectations.

Wait till I win the lotto the old lady's burb is goin under the knife!!

Big, loud, and American made... Just how it was ment to be.

Meety Peety
12-15-2012, 6:10 PM
This is what powers the new 2013 Ford F150.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tEqwXrqzH4

PM me if you want to make an outstanding deal on one. Ford dealer on CA central coast for more than 25 years.

www.jimvreelandford.com
Already a Ford fan and have been running F150s for years.. video definitely brought a smile to my face.

bombadillo
12-15-2012, 6:14 PM
Something like a JK jeep. Straight front and rear axles, enclosed cab that you can sleep in, mostly a wrangler drivetrain, and a very capable 4x4 with only a few mods. They are small enough to go more places than other longer wheel based vehicles, and big enough to haul a LOT of gear with a roof rack and a full rear end.


http://www.quadratec.com/community/jeep_news/article_images/1217/7-add1.jpg

Gugs
12-15-2012, 7:45 PM
My vote would be the 60-series Toyota Landcruiser. They were available in the US from 82-87 or so. Carbureted dinosaur with a 4speed manual and solid front axle. Very cable rig that can haul the family and bug-out supplies.

El Toro
12-15-2012, 8:57 PM
Something like a JK jeep. Straight front and rear axles, enclosed cab that you can sleep in, mostly a wrangler drivetrain, and a very capable 4x4 with only a few mods. They are small enough to go more places than other longer wheel based vehicles, and big enough to haul a LOT of gear....

I have to agree on either the JK jeeps or ANY pre-TBI smb Chevy. Im surprised I'm not seeing more practical Toyota posts. The old Landcruisers are great but rare. What about 1980s Toyota mini-trucks? Theyre not full size but theyre reliable.

Sorry Ford guys but Im not seeing any strong recommendations here. Any new model 1990 or newer sounds good but how are they to work on with limited tools? Same with whoever said an 04-06 Tahoe. Guys, you gotta be thinking what 4x4 when SHTF is going to be running long-term. You may need to scavenge parts with nothing more than basic wrenches.

Exocet5
12-16-2012, 2:19 AM
In SHTF, you are not trying to wheel or do crazy 4x4 on purpose. You are not trying to be king of the hill. You are trying to be conservative and get the hell out of harm's way beforehand with enough supplies, self defense items, and camping gear to last you and your companions awhile.

You also want enough GVWR to haul enough stuff. I used to own an 80's Toyota 4runner that was completely built for 4x4, camping, & survival. I had all essential spares including anything electrical that would be blown-out in an EMP. Really though, the biggest problem was on-board fuel and driving range. I literally could not carry enough supplies or fuel...it was either basic supplies + little extra fuel OR barely any supplies + more fuel. With my 4x4 upgrades I was already something like 5750 lbs with me onboard (6200 GWVR IIRC)....and that was w/o any extra fuel or self defense onboard!

It was not enough. I found in my case the only vehicle that could handle a reasonable amount of gear and supplies was a full-size 3/4 ton truck. Not 1/2 ton....3/4 ton. Domestic 3/4 tons are commercial vehicles & can haul a crap-load of extra-fuel in the pickup bed. There are in-bed tanks designed to add capacity....my friend's Ford F250 has a ~35 gallon onboard tank and another 115 gallons in his bed. His range is like 2000 miles fully loaded. And to echo other posters....with solid f/r axles, diesel, and mechanical injection.

My SHTF vehicle of choice would be a 94-97 Dodge Ram 2500/3500 4x4 with cummins diesel engine, no crappy glow plugs, and mechanical injection. They get 22mpg on the road rolling 8,800 lbs. These are commercial grade engines installed in buses, tractors and dump trucks that came from the factory with Denso alternators and starters....400-500k mile rigs not uncommon!

A larger vehicle also has more "surface area" from which to take incoming fire...it also has enough GWVR to run armor plate to defeat RIFLE fire with enough capacity left over to actually haul supplies. My taco just could not do this nor would it present a large enough object/ % chance to spread-out the incoming projectiles and actively lower my % chance of getting hit.

cannon
12-16-2012, 7:42 AM
I own 3 4wds (Subaru, Power Wagon and Discovery) and I only see two choices. It's either a pack animal (horse, mule, donkey, llama, alpaca, etc.) or a mountain bike.

I understand your logic but if you are limited to walking speed you are a sitting duck.

Horton Fenty
12-16-2012, 7:47 AM
I understand your logic but if you are limited to walking speed you are a sitting duck.

Any place your going to be with a pack animal everyone will be walking.

xpbprox
12-16-2012, 8:10 AM
My SHTF vehicle of choice would be a 94-97 Dodge Ram 2500/3500 4x4 with cummins diesel engine, no crappy glow plugs, and mechanical injection. They get 22mpg on the road rolling 8,800 lbs. These are commercial grade engines installed in buses, tractors and dump trucks that came from the factory with Denso alternators and starters....400-500k mile rigs not uncommon!


Slow down there partner. Not happening

dieselpower
12-16-2012, 10:56 AM
wow...you guys are way off base... 1980's era Diesel Hummer...hands down, /thread

bombadillo
12-16-2012, 11:23 AM
A little big and poor mileage. Not my cup of tea for a survival rig you can easily pull parts off. Yes I know they go a long ways before needing anything, but they'll still need things. Good luck finding parts.

FMFdevildoc
12-16-2012, 11:26 AM
Toyota Tacoma 4x4, new or old OR the foreign hi-lux version are some of the most capable, durable and dependable off road production trucks I have seen. This coming from a former Jeep CJ "purist" who CANNOT WAIT to sell off my F150 STX 4x4 to get a Tacoma...

Just MHO the worst off road (stock) vehicle I've ever owned was a 2000 GMC Denali, which was an absolute lemon and mechanical disaster.

MikeR
12-16-2012, 12:16 PM
Diesel powered Landcruiser.

Now you can close the thread.

Steve_In_29
12-16-2012, 12:37 PM
wow...you guys are way off base... 1980's era Diesel Hummer...hands down, /threadThe MT mechanics in the unit I work for would beg to differ with you. Things are always braking on these. Plus from my own experience during my time in the Marines and after the engine is ridiculously underpowered in the pre-turbos and not much better with the turbo. Unless you are sticking to open country it is very easy to find yourself too wide to fit and in densely wooded areas you are pretty much limited to roads. The suspension travel is basically nil, they high-center easily, and need to use speed to negotiate many obstacles.

Steve_In_29
12-16-2012, 12:41 PM
Slow down there partner. Not happeningWhat's not happening? I know several people that get 20+mpg with 3000+lbs of truck camper on board their early Cummins Dodge.

IIRC the best would be the first year of the 24V engine as they still had totally mechanical controls.

DiscoBayJoe
12-16-2012, 12:47 PM
The 2007-2011 Jeep JK Wrangler shares drivetrain components with the Dodge Caravan family (3.8L V6) which has been around in many vehicles for years. It's not a powerhorse, but in a SHTF you should easily be able to find drivetrain parts.

xpbprox
12-16-2012, 12:52 PM
The MT mechanics in the unit I work for would beg to differ with you. Things are always braking on these. Plus from my own experience during my time in the Marines and after the engine is ridiculously underpowered in the pre-turbos and not much better with the turbo. Unless you are sticking to open country it is very easy to find yourself too wide to fit and in densely wooded areas you are pretty much limited to roads. The suspension travel is basically nil, they high-center easily, and need to use speed to negotiate many obstacles.

Agree dude, the 6.2/5 was a joke



What's not happening? I know several people that get 20+mpg with 3000+lbs of truck camper on board their early Cummins Dodge.

IIRC the best would be the first year of the 24V engine as they still had totally mechanical controls.
Cool story bro.

1998.5 24v was not mechanical
The 12v was mechanical. You can do a p pump conversion on a 5.9 24v to make it mechanical

guns4life
12-16-2012, 1:00 PM
Nevermind about the Wrangler, I change my vote to Reliant Robin. If I have to go out, it might as well be as funny as possible...4x4 be damned.

Steve_In_29
12-16-2012, 1:02 PM
1998.5 24v was not mechanical
The 12v was mechanical. You can do a p pump conversion on a 5.9 24v to make it mechanicalMy mistake then. For some reason I thought I remembered hearing the first year was still all mechanical.



For the other posters unless you are looking for replacement parts in junkyards or scavenging from other equally questionable sources, the older vehicles are getting hard to find "in stock" parts for at your average Kragen, Shucks, Vatozone, etc. How many times have you heard, "we will have it here in a couple of days" from the counter guy? So you go from finding the easily recognizable corner store to figuring out where the local distribution warehouse is. With power out, good luck trying to find what you need in those huge stocks of part number only marked boxes.

Steve_In_29
12-16-2012, 1:10 PM
Smaller vehicles, Jeeps, Yotas and even my Early Bronco, while great for getting around are simply not gonna carry the amounts of supplies/equipment you are going to need. A SRW 1ton truck is probably the best bet. Early Ford/GM/Dodge 1tons are exactly the same size as their 1/2tons and the later SuperDutys are only slightly bigger.

Avoid independent front ends though as the object now isn't ride quality but brute strength.

Wife will drive our F350, while I will be in the EB scouting ahead if necessary. Though since we already live where many people would be bugging out to, we most likely won't have to go any where.

ILVSMOG
12-16-2012, 1:41 PM
I picked up a M1008 CUCV (84 chevy 1-ton diesel pickup) a few years ago and I love it. It had been maintained very well and runs great. With some mild suspension and chassis work, along with Humvee beadlocks and 37" tires, it's extremely capable off road. It came with 4.56 gears in a 14-bolt floating rear and Dana 60 front. If you break one of those, you're doing something WAY wrong. Even if you do manage to break one, replacements can be found under a variety of Ford, GM and Dodge vehicles. It serves as my weekend-project/dump-run/just-in-case vehicle.

The Detroit 6.2s were nothing special, power wise, but unless you're an idiot, they will last a LONG time. The Stanadyn fuel pump on them may not be the best, but that same pump body can be found on many tractors and farm implements. I have several floating around my shop, on a variety of equipment.

The blazers are getting harder to find at government auction, and clean ones bring BIG money, but you can still find the pickups for reasonable prices.

El Toro
12-16-2012, 1:53 PM
For the other posters unless you are looking for replacement parts in junkyards or scavenging from other equally questionable sources, the older vehicles are getting hard to find "in stock" parts for at your average Kragen, Shucks, Vatozone, etc. How many times have you heard, "we will have it here in a couple of days" from the counter guy? So you go from finding the easily recognizable corner store to figuring out where the local distribution warehouse is. With power out, good luck trying to find what you need in those huge stocks of part number only marked boxes.

I was assuming there wouldnt be any open for business anyhow ;)

But if your BO location is 300-700 miles of alternate route driving, and theres a mechanical problem youre going to be making field repairs. What vehicle is going to be easily repaired? There will be alot of vehicles dead alongside highways. If you drive a commonly found vehicle then you'll have a better chance of scavenging parts. But I want a 4x4 not a Camry, and there will be alot of those abandoned. Newer trucks are nice but they come with alot of complex technology. Older trucks are getting more scarce but the tradeoff is theres a huge abundance.

So here's the list so far:
1973-87 Chevy smb
1994-97 Dodge RAM with Cummins diesel
Jeep Cherokee (need model/year)
2007-11 Jeep JK Wrangler
Toyota Tacoma (need years)
1980?? Toyota 4Runner

I left out the CCUV because that 6.2 Diesel is crap.

Any others?

xpbprox
12-16-2012, 1:57 PM
missing Any ford truck with a 351c/w or 302. 80s 90s era

ZombieZoo
12-16-2012, 2:11 PM
Chevy makes 'soft' 4x4 van, some aftermarket company does 4X4 Ford vans.


Or a Subaru wagon if MPG is going to be a factor. Only 4X4s I've know that actually got decent MPG and their are said to be "underrated" as off-roaders.

Both those not going to be too good for roadside repairs, however. Subarus got a reps for "WTF?" among mechanics.

The much lighter 2wd German "Thing" was said to be better for some off roading than a Jeep because it was MUCH LIGHTER and easier to get unstuck manually with just who ever was riding in it.

bcb666
12-16-2012, 2:32 PM
185132

185133

1968 Ford Bronco

xpbprox
12-16-2012, 2:49 PM
That's is one purty bronco!!!!
I've always wanted one

Reminds me of the international scouts too

strokesdmb
12-16-2012, 2:54 PM
I got a 73 bronco that I'm about to pull out of the garage soon. Can't wait. I like your color pick

Steve_In_29
12-16-2012, 4:05 PM
I was assuming there wouldnt be any open for business anyhow ;)
I didn't mean the places would be open. My comment was just about what they stock and the possibility of finding a part there.

Older trucks are getting more scarce but the tradeoff is theres a huge abundance. On your next trip try counting the vehicles that you would be looking for and see how many you find. Older vehicles on the roads aren't as common as you might think compared to the millions of newer vehicles. Searching through miles of gridlocked abandoned cars for what you need isn't really a viable option.

There's a reason all those mail-order, old vehicle parts houses are in business.

DiscoBayJoe
12-16-2012, 5:40 PM
SgJJjpkC-dM

bombadillo
12-16-2012, 5:47 PM
I'd like to know who the bonehead was who stood directly behind some of those rigs with a camera as they went up some pretty hairy inclines. That is the LAST place I'd like to be personally, but the shots were pretty cool with some of the axle articulation and wheel spin.

bombadillo
12-16-2012, 5:47 PM
I'd like to know who the bonehead was who stood directly behind some of those rigs with a camera as they went up some pretty hairy inclines. That is the LAST place I'd like to be personally, but the shots were pretty cool with some of the axle articulation and wheel spin.

Sunday
12-16-2012, 6:28 PM
Ive owned Chevy Blazers and Jeeps over the years and feel they are pretty rugged.

If you were to pick a 4x4 vehicle for the SHTF MadMax scenario where few vehicles make the grade, which make, model and year would be best? Id want to have a vehicle that I could scavenge alot of parts off dead vehicles by the road. Which 4x4s are the most common? Im leaning towards Jeeps, but there are alot of Fords, Dodges, Chevys and Toyotas that would be east for canabalizing parts.
Will there be gasoline?

11HE9
12-16-2012, 10:01 PM
wow...you guys are way off base... 1980's era Diesel Hummer...hands down, /thread

I was in the Army during the transition from the M151(Jeep) to the HMMWV(Hummer). I drove a brand new Hummer off of a railcar with less than ten miles on the odometer. In less than a mile from the rail-head, all of the alternator(Gen?) bolts sheared off causing the alternator(Gen?) to fall forward into the radiator, which caused even more damage. I had to wait for a wrecker to come tow a brand new Hummer to the motor-pool. :facepalm:

I would gladly trade ten '80s HMMWVs for two (early) '70s Toyota Landcruisers any day :oji:

*Two LCs... one to drive, the other one for spare parts;)

DiscoBayJoe
12-16-2012, 10:04 PM
agreed, hummer's are overrated. This was my 4x4 before my current Jeep:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3270/3284201031_f6433bef9f.jpg

It was an interesting grocery getter, but it was too heavy, too wide, and way too under powered! I broke an Axle and got stuck out in Pismo. Had to get towed out by a Ford.

11HE9
12-16-2012, 10:22 PM
I broke an Axle and got stuck out in Pismo. Had to get towed out by a Ford.

OUCH!! :(

Exocet5
12-17-2012, 2:18 AM
Will there be gasoline?

if there is fuel, there will be diesel. reason? monied intrests want to make money from their assets be that a farm, mine, or oil well. the fuel infrastructure will focus on the vehicles that support these enterprises.

look at the 3rd world....you may not find gas but you can always find some crappy diesel anywhere in the world being sold from 2L bottles.

TheChief
12-17-2012, 6:51 AM
I drove Hummers for a few years in the 90s while wearing green and worked in the parts shop when i was recupping from an injury.

HMMWV's are very expensive in time, money, and resources to own. They break realtively easy even without off roading and the parts are ridicously expensive. Biggest failure points were the dog bones...I think they are called transaxles. They connect the tire hubs to the differentials (or pumpkins).

Next were flat tires, leaking breaks, main seals, diff seals, and electrical systems.

I would take one if found on the side of the road but would never rely it or put down any cash for it.

My $0.02

El Toro
12-17-2012, 7:45 AM
if there is fuel, there will be diesel. reason? monied intrests want to make money from their assets be that a farm, mine, or oil well. the fuel infrastructure will focus on the vehicles that support these enterprises.

look at the 3rd world....you may not find gas but you can always find some crappy diesel anywhere in the world being sold from 2L bottles.

Honestly Im leaning toward diesel anyhow. I currently drive an 09 Chevy 2500 with a Duramax. I looked yard at convertion to run veggie but Im too attached to it the way it is:o

The CCUV mentioned above is an ok diesel but somewhat a nightmare to get runnung well. Here in the US, diesels arent common on light passenger vehicles, stupid if you ask me, but everywhere you look, there are Isuzus, Cummins and a bunch of others in delivery trucks, farm equipment, generators, etc. Many of these can bolt up to a light truck drivetrain with some mods.

Im now thinking going this route:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojWVsdww-E4

Steve_In_29
12-17-2012, 6:59 PM
agreed, hummer's are overrated. This was my 4x4 before my current Jeep:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3270/3284201031_f6433bef9f.jpg

It was an interesting grocery getter, but it was too heavy, too wide, and way too under powered! I broke an Axle and got stuck out in Pismo. Had to get towed out by a Ford.I have seen worse then that, in Big Bear I watched a civilian H1 get high centered on a rock pile. He was pulled off by a Suzuki Samurai. The Sami had to take several running starts but eventually moved the HUMMER enough that it could get a tire on the ground.

Steve_In_29
12-17-2012, 7:38 PM
And since we are showing Early Broncos, here's mine in action at Doran Canyon during the 35th Anniversary of the Bronco Event. If you look closely at the left rear you can just see the photographer that took the picture that ended up as the centerspread in 4Wheel & Off Road magazine. My wife's stock EB is the same year/color and looks like the before pic to mine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/Steve_in_29/StartofDorancanyon-resized.jpg

xpbprox
12-17-2012, 8:05 PM
Honestly Im leaning toward diesel anyhow. I currently drive an 09 Chevy 2500 with a Duramax. I looked yard at convertion to run veggie but Im too attached to it the way it is:o



Your 09 Duramax won't like that

eb47
12-17-2012, 8:25 PM
I have a 1987 Nissan Pathfinder (2 Door)

1. Great gas mileage with a reserve tank
2. 5 passanger vehicle with cargo area too.
3. small enough to get in and out of tight spaces.
4. super dependable on street or rough terrain.
5. Excellent clearance.
6. Oh yeah...No Fuel injection either.

I wouldnt trade mine for any of these others I just read about.

1d0ntkn0w
12-18-2012, 8:03 AM
K5
and you can get them for about $1,500

FMJBT
12-18-2012, 9:18 AM
Another vote for the Cherokee XJ. All around, just a good dependable vehicle. Mine has about 210,000 miles on it now, and just keeps going despite a lot of neglect as far as maintenance. Parts are available and easy to replace for the most part. Despite being newer vehicles, these come apart and go back together a lot like older gen vehicles. Lots of room in the engine bay for turning wrenches. By the time the production ended in 2001, Chrylser/Jeep had pretty much perfected the design. The late model Cherokees are extremely reliable as a result. Only downside I can see with these is that the fuel mileage goes downhill pretty fast once you lift it and put big tires on them. Mine only pulls about 15-16 MPG regardless of terrain.

Cypriss32
12-18-2012, 9:40 AM
1991 Suburban 3/4 ton 4x4, 350/4L80E, 410 towing packing.
-its 8lug heavy duty axles
-410 gears CAN handle 35s
-Good trans/motor combo
-can tow decent
-VERY CHEAP
-4x4 in SUV form is EXCELLENT in snow
-LOTS of room inside for gear and to sleep
-40 gallon gas tanks

El Toro
12-18-2012, 10:12 AM
Fuel mileage may or may not be an issue. Factor in number of passengers, weight of gear, jerry cans, you could still get pretty far. I already have a syphon in my kit. If we run across a dead vehicle, we'll syphon into a jerry can. My plans include some off road driving to get around obstacles, traffic jams and choke points but i plan on using improved roads mostly and putting miles between us and the hoardes. ;)

Exocet5
12-18-2012, 1:42 PM
I did a calculation once on what kind of mpg folks were getting in evacuation traffic out of New Orleans from Katrina. I ran across some guy who posted how much fuel he used starting w a full tank and jerry cans in the back of his truck. The numbers were startling....bases on my extrapolation of his vehicle/engine type, the fuel he said he used, the known destination he was going to, and the hours he was on the road...I calculated the guys fuel economy was at best 20-25% of his CITY CYCLE mpg. This glaring fact was one of the biggest reasons why I let go of my 4runner: range. at 17mpg...I was looking at 3.5-4.25 mile gallons. A 17 gallon tank could take me as little as 50-something miles. Big problem.

And the problem w gas is its just too dang dangerous to store/goes bad quickly.

Coded-Dude
12-18-2012, 1:50 PM
A J10(like the one below) or an old bronco.

http://jubileejeeps.org/faqs/tremors3.jpg

The Geologist
12-18-2012, 7:33 PM
This

CxdX0au-BNA

Or a Jeep.

VPzvAC4UbrM

Tough Yea

Scout2Diesel
12-19-2012, 12:37 AM
^ Ya I miss my XJ... sold it at 230k with plenty left to give. That video doesn't suprise me. Would a YJ stand up to even more? (love them 4.0l I6's)

It is nice having a diesel with mechanical injection. lots of fuel options.

a rig with a divorced transfer case would make repowering easier...cause you're obviously not worried about getting it smogged. (makes me think of the old car's in Cuba repowered with a comblock block, is this a pun?)

Spec
12-19-2012, 2:30 AM
Either that or a V.W. powered sand rail. They will run on gas, diesel, kerosene, vegetable oil, just about anything and, there easy to work on.

please explain that. I have owned many VW and never heard that you can run them off anything but gas.

Onetyme
12-19-2012, 6:38 PM
Love my Jeep Wrangler but I'm not going to haul much with it. Really hopping to have a full support group to make use of the Jeep, Ram & Yukon.

massraptor
12-19-2012, 7:23 PM
If SHTF and you think which of the big three makes a difference,


Kiss your *** good bye.

did you see this?

http://youtu.be/_vAeeUhloQA

lehn20
12-19-2012, 11:33 PM
Land Cruiser for the win....

draconianruler
12-20-2012, 1:01 AM
Hummer H2 :) Uses common GM parts, good off road ability, comfy inside.

Steve_In_29
12-20-2012, 3:40 PM
Hummer H2 :) Uses common GM parts, good off road ability, comfy inside.Just a pimped out Tahoe that gets you no drivetrain upgrades for your extra money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YacG9PkGtI

10mmOutdoors
12-20-2012, 4:36 PM
Bobbed duce

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/miscellaneous/393666d1222648061-big-4x4-sale-bobbed-deuce-49-tires-rockwells-100_1001.jpg



My friend, 100dollarman, sells these on Pirate. I have a 2008 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon that I wheel the bejeezus out of. Awesome rock crawler / overlander. There should be plenty of these around in a SHTF scenario. Any solid axle Toyota would do as well. Toyotas are cheap and plentiful.

craneman
12-20-2012, 7:38 PM
Mechanically injected diesel in a 4x4 chassis. When the fuel runs out they can easily be run on waste motor oil, hydraulic oil, ATF, if it is filtered well and thinned with a bit of petroleum solvent (gasoline at a small percentage works well). Preferably a model that was mass produced with a powerplant used in other commercial applications. Easy to find and make home brewed fuel, and spare parts availability.

DannyInSoCal
12-20-2012, 7:42 PM
Bobbed duce

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/miscellaneous/393666d1222648061-big-4x4-sale-bobbed-deuce-49-tires-rockwells-100_1001.jpg

And it'll run on motor oil...

:43:

markw
12-26-2012, 9:29 PM
+1000

Without a doubt this is the way to go. Make sure you get a 4x4, 4.0, 231 transfer case (part time) and I perfer the AW4 automatic transmission. You cant ask for a more capable, dependable rig.

Then why did you sell yours? :) Cherokee is the best bang for the buck though, in the above configuration. Some rocker protection, 4-5" lift and 33's, D44 rear, regeared for under $5k is a go anywhere rig. I'm thinking bicycle might not be a bad choice when you can't find fuel.

kb58
12-26-2012, 10:07 PM
Mechanically injected diesel in a 4x4 chassis. When the fuel runs out they can easily be run on waste motor oil, hydraulic oil, ATF, if it is filtered well and thinned with a bit of petroleum solvent (gasoline at a small percentage works well). Preferably a model that was mass produced with a powerplant used in other commercial applications. Easy to find and make home brewed fuel, and spare parts availability.
This, no ECU, nothing but an engine-driven mechanical fuel pump to make it run. Heck, you can start it on a hill and not even need a battery or alternator.

spy-d
12-27-2012, 2:09 PM
M151A1 for me. Simple to work on, Low tire pressure and over 300 miles per tank of fuel. My M416 trailer Carries 12 nato cans, and extra supplies for a 3 month camping trip. And I can still get parts for it.

draconianruler
12-27-2012, 11:37 PM
Just a pimped out Tahoe that gets you no drivetrain upgrades for your extra money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YacG9PkGtI

Its more then just a pimped Tahoe. See link for more info.

http://www.rockcrawler.com/reviews/hummer/h2/2003_tech_briefing/page3.asp

You know the wall in Cow Mtn, I almost went up it except I was afraid of flipping over LOL. Next time I'm going to tie a cable to the front and go up that. I'll see if I can find the pics. Only downside of the H2 for off roading is the width. But, if you don't mind scratches you can just plow your own trail :chris:

sierra m37
12-28-2012, 6:38 AM
The H2 uses the same drivetrain components as a Chevy Blazer. It's to wide and to heavy. I wouldn't trust the front axles unless I had to. Anything less than Dana 44 is going to be prone to breakage in a heavier 4x4. You can get away with a Dana 25 or 30 in a smaller jeep because they don't weigh a lot. Really depends on what your planned driving is.

In a SHTF scenario, Unimog, the bobbed Deuce pictured earlier and the older Broncos are stout but so is my Jeep Rubicon. They just don't carry much so a trailer is needed.

sierra m37
12-28-2012, 6:38 AM
The H2 uses the same drivetrain components as a Chevy Blazer. It's to wide and to heavy. I wouldn't trust the front axles unless I had to. Anything less than Dana 44 is going to be prone to breakage in a heavier 4x4. You can get away with a Dana 25 or 30 in a smaller jeep because they don't weigh a lot. Really depends on what your planned driving is.

In a SHTF scenario, Unimog, the bobbed Deuce pictured earlier and the older Broncos are stout but so is my Jeep Rubicon. They just don't carry much so a trailer is needed.

Steve_In_29
12-28-2012, 9:51 PM
Its more then just a pimped Tahoe. See link for more info.

http://www.rockcrawler.com/reviews/hummer/h2/2003_tech_briefing/page3.asp

You know the wall in Cow Mtn, I almost went up it except I was afraid of flipping over LOL. Next time I'm going to tie a cable to the front and go up that. I'll see if I can find the pics. Only downside of the H2 for off roading is the width. But, if you don't mind scratches you can just plow your own trail :chris:The suspension is all Tahoe and is not any stronger then one of those soccer mom rides. GM's independent front ends are not known for their off-roading strength.

xxINKxx
12-29-2012, 6:33 PM
I'll be rolling out in my 11' jeep rubicon 4 door. Small, but it's been reliable and gets through some rugged crap.

H2H
12-29-2012, 6:43 PM
toyota, nissan 4x4...

madoka
12-30-2012, 12:06 AM
I did a calculation once on what kind of mpg folks were getting in evacuation traffic out of New Orleans from Katrina. I ran across some guy who posted how much fuel he used starting w a full tank and jerry cans in the back of his truck. The numbers were startling....bases on my extrapolation of his vehicle/engine type, the fuel he said he used, the known destination he was going to, and the hours he was on the road...I calculated the guys fuel economy was at best 20-25% of his CITY CYCLE mpg. This glaring fact was one of the biggest reasons why I let go of my 4runner: range. at 17mpg...I was looking at 3.5-4.25 mile gallons. A 17 gallon tank could take me as little as 50-something miles. Big problem.

+1

Gas mileage depends a great deal on driving conditions. If I'm willing to drive like a grandma, I can do this in my AWD Nissan:

http://i47.tinypic.com/6z0x0j.jpg

DiscoBayJoe
12-30-2012, 9:17 AM
I burned about 1/3 of a tank last summer in 16 miles.... thru the Rubicon.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/600110_10151113523346823_2126726403_n.jpg

MB3
12-30-2012, 10:44 AM
Anyone up for a local (SD) off road excursion or overnighter? Maybe get some plinkin in? Ocotillo? Superstition? One of my "classified" locations 15 minutes from Julian...?

Ronin2
12-30-2012, 10:45 AM
Fully operational U.S. M-75 APC stored within a 2 mile walk from my home in a self storage unit, loaded with fuel/food/water/ammo and combat "kit". Dont ask about fuel economy but on the other hand I dont have to be in such a hurry...esp with the Semi Auto M2 mounted topside.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/newportkrieger/IMG_1060_zps1d0a4d1e.jpg

MB3
12-30-2012, 10:46 AM
All this 4x4 talk lets do it. I want to get more dirt miles on the 85 Yota...

randver
12-30-2012, 11:03 AM
im always up for a trail ride or a day of shooting

MB3
12-30-2012, 11:17 AM
Sweet... What kind of rig you got? Im in north county SD.

vortec_cruiser
12-30-2012, 11:26 AM
Fully operational U.S. M-75 APC stored within a 2 mile walk from my home in a self storage unit, loaded with fuel/food/water/ammo and combat "kit". Dont ask about fuel economy but on the other hand I dont have to be in such a hurry...esp with the Semi Auto M2 mounted topside.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/newportkrieger/IMG_1060_zps1d0a4d1e.jpg
I really like your parking brake. :tank: