PDA

View Full Version : 9/19/2013 CGF Files New Federal Civil Rights Lawsuit to Stop DOJ's DROS Delay Policy


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7

wildhawker
12-13-2012, 11:45 AM
http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/2013/09/cgf-sues-ca-attorney-general-kamala-harris-doj-firearms-chief-new-federal-civil-rights-lawsuit-gun-delays

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Thursday, September 19, 2013

The Calguns Foundation Sues California Attorney General Kamala Harris and
DOJ Firearms Bureau Chief Stephen Lindley Over Federal Civil Rights Violations

SAN CARLOS, CA – The Calguns Foundation filed a new federal civil rights lawsuit this morning on behalf of three California residents, naming Attorney General Kamala Harris and DOJ Bureau of Firearms Chief Stephen Lindley as defendants. The case challenges the California Department of Justice’s practice of denying individuals’ fundamental rights protected under the Second and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution.

The Department, through defendants Harris and Lindley, have been and continue to enforce a policy of forbidding many gun purchasers from taking possession of their lawfully-obtained firearms through what are commonly referred to as “DROS delays”, sometimes for over a year or indefinitely.

One plaintiff in the case, Darren Owen of Taft, California, has been denied his firearm for over 18 months.

“It’s the government’s responsibility to timely prove that someone has already been adjudicated and their Constitutional right to purchase and possess guns taken away through due process,” explained Gene Hoffman, the Foundation’s Chairman. “It’s not the individual’s job to prove that they have fundamental rights.”

“By shifting the burden to the individual, the DOJ is blatantly violating the Constitution and thumbing its nose at the U.S. Supreme Court’s D.C. v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago decisions.”

Victor Otten, an attorney for the plaintiffs, agrees. “Our clients are not prohibited from owning guns under state and federal law,” noted Otten. “The bottom line is that if the DOJ cannot determine that someone is ineligible to possess firearms in a timely manner with all of the databases and law enforcement resources it has at its disposal, then they have no choice but to allow our clients and other similarly-situated gun owners to take possession of their firearms.”

Under current California law, the DOJ must permit a firearm purchaser to receive their firearm at the end of the 10-day DROS background check period unless it determines that the purchaser is not eligible to possess or purchase firearms. Earlier this year, Assemblymember Tom Ammiano (D – San Francisco) amended his bill AB 500 to allow the Department of Justice to deny the release of firearms for up to 30 days. AB 500 is presently awaiting California Governor Jerry Brown’s action.

“We’ve received hundreds of reports like those at issue in this case and it’s a virtual certainty that there are thousands of others like the individual plaintiffs out there,” said the Foundation’s Executive Director, Brandon Combs. “The DOJ’s policy is nothing short of outrageous.”

Continued Combs, “It’s time for the DOJ to respect the Second Amendment. If the Attorney General and her staff refuse to do it voluntarily, we will not hesitate to force it in the courts. In filing this case, we seek to ensure that the Constitutionally-enshrined fundamental rights of Californians to buy and possess firearms are respected no matter how far Ms. Harris or Assemblymember Ammiano might wish the DOJ’s powers extended.”

The new federal lawsuit is entitled Darrin Owen, et. al. vs. Kamala Harris, et. al. and may be viewed or downloaded at http://ia601002.us.archive.org/8/items/gov.uscourts.caed.259271/gov.uscourts.caed.259271.docket.html.

The Calguns Foundation (www.calgunsfoundation.org) is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization that serves its members, supporters, and the public through educational, cultural, and judicial efforts to defend and advance Second Amendment and related civil rights. Supporters may visit http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/donate to join or donate to CGF.

###

Please forward this official communication to all of your contacts and help us distribute this important gun rights news alert.

***

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Friday, April 12, 2013

The Calguns Foundation, 7 Californians Sue Attorney General Kamala Harris, DOJ Over Gun Delays

SAN CARLOS, CA – The Calguns Foundation has filed a lawsuit on behalf of seven California residents today against Attorney General Kamala Harris, the California Department of Justice, and DOJ Bureau of Firearms Chief Stephen Lindley. The case challenges the DOJ’s policy of requiring some firearm purchasers to prove their legal standing to take possession of acquired firearms and forcing them to wait beyond the statutory 10-day waiting period.

One plaintiff in the case, Daniel Schoepf of Long Beach, California, was denied his fundamental right to keep and bear arms for self-defense even after DOJ told him that he was legally eligible to purchase and possess firearms.

In 1984, Schoepf was detained in Los Angeles County for having two tablets in his pocket that were later discovered to be common, non-prescription pills. The detectives subsequently released Schoepf and no charges were filed. In 2006, DOJ firearms section Program Manager Steve Buford sent Schoepf a letter stating that he was eligible to purchase and possess firearms; however, in 2012, DOJ reversed that position and instructed Schoepf’s local firearms dealer to hold back delivery of Schoepf’s gun.

“I know I’m not alone in this, that DOJ is wrongly denying many Californians their Second Amendment rights just like they are mine,” said Schoepf. “I’m not a criminal and certainly not a disqualified convict but am a law abiding citizen with my Second Amendment rights fully intact. They left me no choice but to fight this injustice in court.”

“Over the past year, the DOJ has been directing California gun dealers to delay the release of firearms to people eligible to possess them – sometimes indefinitely,“ said Jason Davis, attorney for The Calguns Foundation. “The DOJ simply has no legal authority to justify their policy.”

The DOJ claims that these delays are primarily due to lack of information in their criminal history databases. In a July 2011 Los Angeles Times article, assistant attorney general Travis LeBlanc said the DOJ’s criminal records database system was “shoddy,” with the ‘guilty’, ‘not guilty’, or ‘case dismissed’ disposition information missing for about 7.7 million of the 16.4 million arrest records entered into the database over the last decade – and presumably much more for older cases.

“In essence, the DOJ is relying upon their improperly-maintained database to deny the fundamental rights of individuals,” said Gene Hoffman, Chairman of The Calguns Foundation. “That policy is entirely unacceptable and we look forward to putting an end to it.”

The attorney for plaintiffs in the lawsuit, Victor Otten, agrees.

“Our clients follow the law and so should the DOJ,” said Otten. “The DOJ is gleefully enforcing a policy that deprives my clients of their civil rights. The arrogance of the Department to think that it can abrogate the Constitution and statutory duties set by the Legislature is very unsettling.”

“This case really underscores the value of our DOJ Watch program,” said Brandon Combs, Executive Director of The Calguns Foundation. “Attorney General Harris’s hostility towards some civil rights predictably resulted in a shift away from former Attorney General Brown’s correct application of the law – and we are here to hold her accountable.”

The lawsuit is entitled Schoepf, et. al. vs. Kamala Harris, et. al. A copy of the complaint may be viewed or downloaded at http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/cgf_dros-delay-complaint.pdf.

The Calguns Foundation (www.calgunsfoundation.org) is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization which serves its members and the public by providing Second Amendment-related education, strategic litigation, and the defense of innocent California gun owners from improper or malicious prosecution. The Calguns Foundation seeks to inform government and protect the rights of individuals to acquire, own, and lawfully use firearms in California. Supporters may visit http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/donate to join or donate to CGF.

GOEX FFF
12-13-2012, 11:51 AM
Thanks for looking in to this Brandon and for all the work you do! :thumbsup:

mrdd
12-13-2012, 12:01 PM
The good news is that gun purchases in California have increased about 400%. The bad news is, and DOJ has acknowledged, that processing the increased level of DROS applications requires resource allocation such that they have to limit the hours for taking DROS denial appeals calls (see below).

OK, but we agree there is more going on than a recent 400% increase in DROS applications, right?

We have noticed increased reports of delays for people who successfully purchased in the past, beginning around March of this year. What is going on with that?

hawk1
12-13-2012, 12:04 PM
The bad news is, and DOJ has acknowledged, that processing the increased level of DROS applications requires resource allocation such that they have to limit the hours for taking DROS denial appeals calls (see below).

They certainly have the resources to drum up old, non-disqualifying convictions...

What happened to the extra DROS money they had?

Oh yeah, they no longer have it...:rolleyes:

tcrpe
12-13-2012, 12:05 PM
OK, but we agree there is more going on than a recent 400% increase in DROS applications, right?

We have noticed increased reports of delays (and denials) for people who successfully purchased in the past, beginning around March of this year. What is going on with that?

Exactly, and will they push for retroactive denials now?

The certainly have an ulterior motive in this.

Maybe the DOJ should start issuing support ticket numbers . . . . . :shrug:

rplusplus
12-13-2012, 12:07 PM
Calling for a mod to STICKY this one at least for a little while... All it will take is for Zimmerman to make the news again for this to be on page 6.

mrdd
12-13-2012, 12:14 PM
No doubt the increased number of delays indicated there is some procedure changes in play here, but if you take into the consideration the huge increase in gun sales there is a measure of truth/fact also...

Yes, but the increase in DROS applications is probably limited to the last 1/3 of the year at most. We have been seeing the delay reports since around March so there is definitely more going on.

randian
12-13-2012, 12:35 PM
Somebody in the previous thread said that DOJ is asking for originals of documentation on offenses they've already considered and cleared. Is DOJ mad? Originals are precious. From what I see here on these forums, originals can be impossible to recreate should they be lost, especially for old offenses. They should not be subjected to unnecessary risk of loss through postal error, DOJ error, or any other kind of mishap. Copies should be sufficient. If they want the originals, they should send somebody out to inspect them in person.

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net
12-13-2012, 12:58 PM
I smell a case being built here, against the DOJ and their inability to process these in a timely manner.

Perhaps a change like DOJ has 10 days to deny and if the don't or fail to respond at all, you're good to go?

Just thinking out loud.

tcrpe
12-13-2012, 1:15 PM
DOJ meaning state or fed?

State

Librarian
12-13-2012, 1:22 PM
Sticky as requested, but let's keep it low volume please.

Mrbroom
12-13-2012, 1:26 PM
A quick thank you on behalf of one of my co-workers.. Him and I have purchased firearms together for at least the last 5 years. All of a sudden in July this year, he was denied by the DOJ. Him and I were purchasing some stripped lowers. We contacted the Calguns Foundation and advice was given on the appropiate steps to take. Today, Turners called my friend and told them he was now cleared..

25 years ago my co worker was arrested but not charged with any crime and it seems that is what held him up. He dide a live scan and fire arms check with the state that took months to finally give him the release..

Thanks to CGF for the help!! All paper work has been copied to Jason as requested..

Dantedamean
12-13-2012, 1:54 PM
Man this sucks, I hope we can get a good case out of this to get rid of the DROS requirement. Sounds like they're intentionally stopping people from exercising their constitutional right simply because they can.

norcalgunguy
12-13-2012, 2:45 PM
Big thanks to Brandon for your efforts!

clbshooter
12-13-2012, 5:16 PM
Brandon, I can tell you without a doubt that this was what I was told this past Monday when I talked to them. I have the date and time logged on my cell phone. This will be easy to prove if they record their incoming calls. Thanks for all the help you do for gun enthusiasts in Ca.,. AND I never received a DROS denial form. Where do these come from and how long does it take to receive?

hawk1
12-13-2012, 5:28 PM
Brandon, I can tell you without a doubt that this was what I was told this past Monday when I talked to them. I have the date and time logged on my cell phone. This will be easy to prove if they record their incoming calls. Thanks for all the help you do for gun enthusiasts in Ca.,. AND I never received a DROS denial form. Where do these come from and how long does it take to receive?

Q: How do you know DOJ is lying?

A: Anytime they give you an answer over the phone...

wildhawker
12-13-2012, 6:10 PM
Brandon, I can tell you without a doubt that this was what I was told this past Monday when I talked to them. I have the date and time logged on my cell phone. This will be easy to prove if they record their incoming calls. Thanks for all the help you do for gun enthusiasts in Ca.,. AND I never received a DROS denial form. Where do these come from and how long does it take to receive?

I'd need the name and/or ID of the person(s) you spoke with to further pursue the "vacation" matter (please not on open channels like here). The DROS denials will go to the FFL where the transaction originated.

-Brandon

tcrpe
12-13-2012, 6:53 PM
On the subject of a new effort to dredge up ancient, incomplete and defective records while placing the burden of proof on the citizen, and can see a cause of action.

As far as stupid, uncaring, lazy, and inept state workers and their vacations, No cause of action unless they have statutory time frames within which to produce.

No surprise there with their attitude.

Dantedamean
12-13-2012, 6:55 PM
Out of curiosity can you legally record the phone call with the DOJ?

chiselchst
12-13-2012, 7:00 PM
Whenever I have a serious issue requiring phone conversations, I try to make it a practice of documenting all of the info; like time, the persons name, and also the employee ID number (they usually have one). And I take notes...

Perhaps if this is done it may aid in CG's following up these types of situations...

wildhawker
12-13-2012, 7:07 PM
Out of curiosity can you legally record the phone call with the DOJ?

Consult your lawyer ahead of time.

-Brandon

wildhawker
12-13-2012, 7:08 PM
On the subject of a new effort to dredge up ancient, incomplete and defective records while placing the burden of proof on the citizen, and can see a cause of action.

So do I.

As far as stupid, uncaring, lazy, and inept state workers and their vacations, No cause of action unless they have statutory time frames within which to produce.

:whistling:

-Brandon

tcrpe
12-13-2012, 7:18 PM
So do I.



:whistling:

-Brandon

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc23/tcrpe/CB9D2058-FB19-4D6F-8926-B02FE215F4BD-3117-000003C48CE51A07.jpg

wildhawker
12-13-2012, 7:42 PM
Bones ref FTW!

Shrubmaster
12-13-2012, 9:13 PM
Calling for a mod to STICKY this one at least for a little while... All it will take is for Zimmerman to make the news again for this to be on page 6.

I brought it up too, only to be met with countless "black helicopter" replies. Last time I try to keep the calguns community up to date on REAL threats to individuals rights.

Almost a year later and its finally getting the attention it deserves.

Gunlawyer
12-14-2012, 1:16 PM
Out of curiosity can you legally record the phone call with the DOJ?

I would not do so in CA.

California's wiretapping law is a "two-party consent" law. California makes it a crime to record or eavesdrop on any confidential communication, including a private conversation or telephone call, without the consent of all parties to the conversation. See Cal. Penal Code § 632. The statute applies to "confidential communications" -- i.e., conversations in which one of the parties has an objectively reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or overhearing the conversation. See Flanagan v. Flanagan, 41 P.3d 575, 576-77, 578-82 (Cal. 2002).* A California appellate court has ruled that this statute applies to the use of hidden video cameras to record conversations as well. See California v. Gibbons, 215 Cal. App. 3d 1204 (Cal Ct. App. 1989).

roushstage2
12-14-2012, 1:54 PM
Good looking out guys!

ARfan23
12-16-2012, 9:48 PM
I smell a case being built here, against the DOJ and their inability to process these in a timely manner.

Perhaps a change like DOJ has 10 days to deny and if the don't or fail to respond at all, you're good to go?

Just thinking out loud.

That would be nice, but it will never happen ... as much as I agree with you.:euro:

HowardW56
12-16-2012, 9:52 PM
I smell a case being built here, against the DOJ and their inability to process these in a timely manner.

Perhaps a change like DOJ has 10 days to deny and if the don't or fail to respond at all, you're good to go?

Just thinking out loud.

That would be nice, but it will never happen ... as much as I agree with you.:euro:

Be patient.....

Catching up
12-18-2012, 3:07 PM
If people agree the 2nd amendment was to prevent an oppressive government from being oppressive, why wouldn't those same people ( and everyone else) believe you do not need military style weapons for the civilian population. If the whole purpose is to prevent the government (or military) from doing something, you need equal firepower?

gigglemonkee
12-20-2012, 1:08 PM
got a call saying that a gun I should be able to pick up on sunday is delayed. Never had any run ins with the law other than a parking ticket and speeding ticket years ago. No detains or arrests and have bought about 13 guns this year no problem including picking one up the day before i started this dros. It is a ppt as well so I can't call DOJ until the hours between 2 and 4 to find out anything.

HowardW56
12-20-2012, 1:43 PM
got a call saying that a gun I should be able to pick up on sunday is delayed. Never had any run ins with the law other than a parking ticket and speeding ticket years ago. No detains or arrests and have bought about 13 guns this year no problem including picking one up the day before i started this dros. It is a ppt as well so I can't call DOJ until the hours between 2 and 4 to find out anything.

So call them in 15 minutes or so and see what they have to say...

gigglemonkee
12-20-2012, 2:05 PM
Just called was told "we can't say anything over the phone since we can't verify who you are"

HowardW56
12-20-2012, 2:13 PM
Just called was told "we can't say anything over the phone since we can't verify who you are"


Thats a new twist, first time I've heard that....

gigglemonkee
12-20-2012, 3:01 PM
Called back again they say keep trying so I can get through to the other department but it is taking them a couple weeks to do background checks since the rush over the weekend. They should have all current checks done by New Years.

gigglemonkee
12-20-2012, 3:09 PM
Just called again and talked to someone. They said it is either me or the gun and can take a couple weeks of investigation.

potter
12-20-2012, 3:57 PM
I just called BOF and got a message that the hours to inquire about a Denial are now 2-4 pm. I called back 20 times and when finally connected was told to call next year, as they aren't taking phone calls regarding Delays or Denials until after Jan 1st, 2013.

mrdd
12-20-2012, 4:48 PM
This is very troubling that the state is holding up purchases like this.

Dantedamean
12-20-2012, 4:53 PM
Ya this is BS, especially for people who already own guns.

Now Yee wants YEARLY background checks? How's the hell are they going to do that? This I hope will be the death of the DROS, well see.

randian
12-20-2012, 5:33 PM
Now Yee wants YEARLY background checks? How's the hell are they going to do that?
I believe his actual strategy is to prevent non-government gun possession by

1) making it more expensive; I presume a fee is involved for the annual check

2) for those recalcitrant enough not to get the message and actually fork over the fees, prevent possession by massively backlogging the annual checks. Until your check comes through, you can't carry/shoot (or perhaps even own). Perfection is achieved when the backlog reaches a year or more.

kemasa
12-20-2012, 6:16 PM
if you are not locked up in a jail or a mental ward, then you have passed the yearly background check.

Theseus
12-20-2012, 6:49 PM
As the post suggests, get names and numbers. All easy attempts without a bureaucrat to tie it too is wasted effort.

Also, I once read in the front of a phone book a disclaimer that a short beep tone may be notice that my call is being recorded, and that continuing the conversation is acceptance.

Sent via Note 2 Lte

gigglemonkee
12-20-2012, 7:40 PM
I have a feeling they are so backed up they are just delaying dros so that they can take as long as they want and there is nothing to do while it is in "delay" status

mrdd
12-21-2012, 2:39 AM
I have a feeling they are so backed up they are just delaying dros so that they can take as long as they want and there is nothing to do while it is in "delay" status

You are letting them off too easy. This is new this year.

gigglemonkee
12-21-2012, 9:52 AM
Well if any 2A lawyers want to use me to make an example of them it is fine by me.

potter
12-24-2012, 6:14 PM
Bang bang Calgunners, Hey I'm just following up my closed thread "denied and depressed". After having an Escort MA SA Tac2 delayed for 4 months then finally Denied, I caved in and got a refund from Big5, thanks to them for not charging a restocking fee. But, I feel its partly their fault because they 1st sold me a defective weapon, which was approved and I brought it home, but when I returned it and had to re-DROS for the replacement, thats where I was delayed 4 months, then denied.
Also they (Big5) made a mistake on their (DROS) form and just crossed it out instead of starting a new form. I now have heard that any mistakes on DROS forms will cause scrutiny. I have bought 5 other guns and was a registered "armed security officer", all approved by the BoF and the "Bureau of Security and Investigative Services".
So, I'm bummed out, won't say depressed, as that might imply some mental problems.

But, now I'm wondering whats next. Are they going to try to confiscate my other guns? Will they prosecute me for owning guns when they denied me because they say that I'm a felon? Don't know if you remember, but I was arrested 45 years ago for a youth drug offense, got suspended sentence, did summary probation, paid a fine, got felony reduced to a misdemeanor and dismissed.

Also wondering if BoF can be sued for malice of job performance? Its that same annalist thats been on vacation and has caused grief to many other
DROS applicants. My gut feeling is that she is new and that others were covering for her. The same voice that was on all their phone messages.
Again just my gut feeling, but when she called me to inform of my delay, she had to ask other annalists and finally a supervisor for support and conformation of her decision. All this made me feel that she was a secretary and newly promoted to annalist because of BoF's heavy work load.

Hey, what has been done to me has already been done. I'm just hoping that some of my feelings might help some other member that can afford an attorney and might somehow stick it to the BoF for their lousy job performance.

I understand that I'm new here and don't deserve any consideration, but I do feel that the BOF needs to be spanked as they are way, overstepping their job duties.

potter

durandal
12-24-2012, 7:24 PM
I brought it up too, only to be met with countless "black helicopter" replies. Last time I try to keep the calguns community up to date on REAL threats to individuals rights.



Come now, dont give up.

Frozenguy
12-26-2012, 8:34 PM
I was delayed.

Called today and she said there are 9-13 thousand applications coming in PER DAY.

She also said they are on max schedules and can only process about 5000 a day.

This is only an explanation for the past 1.5 weeks.


She told me to give it an additional 7-10 days and it should be GTG, if not call back.

Hope this doesn't happen with my other DROS's. Probably will :rolleyes:

mrdd
12-27-2012, 12:41 AM
Oh the retards in Sacramento. The DROS fees are supposed to cover the cost of processing the DROS.

10,000 * $35 = $350,000 per DAY

$126 MILLION per year!

Someone had better get off their butt and start hiring more people.

Dantedamean
12-27-2012, 12:51 AM
Oh the retards in Sacramento. The DROS fees are supposed to cover the cost of processing the DROS.

10,000 * $35 = $350,000 per DAY

$126 MILLION per year!

Someone had better get off their butt and start hiring more people.

Wasn't there a new bill passed that reallocated those funds some where else, so they no longer cover the cost of the DROS? I remember reading something about that then I never heard about it again.

clbshooter
12-27-2012, 5:36 AM
I have been delayed since Dec. 7th. All the numbers I have called only go thru to the message about the hours they will accept calls, so please give me some other numbers that you have gotten thru on. This is driving me crazy. Oh and yes I have e-mailed as well.

Dustyzz
12-28-2012, 12:20 PM
Went to pick up a rifle I bought on 12/17 and got a nice very non specific DOJ form letter saying "DELAY DELIVERY DO NOT RELEASE THE FIREARM UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE FROM DOJ"... I've lived in CA since 1989 and have never even had as much as a parking ticket. Guess I'm going to call them between 2 - 4 pm today to see what they say. Wish me luck.

clbshooter
12-28-2012, 12:32 PM
Hey Dusty, good luck, I have been calling them since Dec 7th with no reply. Bought a 10-22 ( 5th gun in last 2.5-3 years from same FFL) on black Fri. and they called the FFL on the 6th with a delay but I never got anything from DOJ just a call from Turner's where I bought the .22. If you get thru let me know what number please. thanks

mrdd
12-28-2012, 12:59 PM
I wonder if they are using "delay" as a tactic because they are understaffed and overloaded?

tcrpe
12-28-2012, 1:03 PM
Attorney General Kamala D. Harris Issues Statement

Friday, December 21, 2012
Contact: (415) 703-5837

SAN FRANCISCO -- Attorney General Kamala D. Harris today issued the following statement in response to the National Rifle Association’s press conference:

“It has been a painful week since the horrifying tragedy in Newtown. Instead of reckless calls to saturate our schools with guns, we should remove guns from the hands of dangerous people. California is the only state with a strong program that identifies and disarms prohibited persons, which should serve as a national model. I will strengthen this program and support stricter state and federal legislation, including Senator Feinstein’s effort to pass a federal assault weapons ban.”


Delay, delay, delay . . . . .

TheDigitalPicasso
12-28-2012, 2:10 PM
I'm picking up 2 lowers on Jan 3rd and I wonder what will happen since she's submitting the bill that day. But I did purchased a rifle after the shooting and picked up last week without a problem.

Dustyzz
12-28-2012, 2:22 PM
Got thru to the CA DOJ and chatted with a very pleasant gentleman with the BOF who informed me that if you get a delay letter it simply means they are completely backed up and that it is not a denial. I asked for a guesstimate on how long the delay would be and he replied that they "hope" to be caught up by the middle of January. Since that is really close to being 30 days on my dros I asked him if I would have have to resubmit my dros if the delay lasted longer than January 15th and his reply was that right now the 30 day clock is stopped on all "delayed" dros applications, so no I will not be required to resubmit the dros even if it goes into February.

Not sure what all that really means, but I thought I'd pass along the info I that CA DOJ is telling folks.

Hope this helps.

violentmouse
12-28-2012, 3:06 PM
so basically what we are all looking at is the 10 day waiting period has become longer than ten days? Would you not agree with me in saying this must violate some kind of law? it's become a burden to the buyer rather than a safety issue. do we not have any legal foothold on this issue? since in 40+ other states all they do is make a phone call and there is no waiting period....imagine if you went to the gas station and had to wait ten days for gasoline.... then suddenly the system is burdened with people demanding gas causing waiting periods to climb to 30 days or more.... society would collapse!!! lol

tcrpe
12-28-2012, 3:11 PM
I wonder if they are using "delay" as a tactic because they are understaffed and overloaded?

They are neither understaffed nor overworked overloaded.

This is the State of California we're talking about.

violentmouse
12-28-2012, 3:20 PM
mrdd meant to say they are OVERPAID and UNDERWORKED :)

mrdd
12-28-2012, 5:09 PM
Got thru to the CA DOJ and chatted with a very pleasant gentleman with the BOF who informed me that if you get a delay letter it simply means they are completely backed up and that it is not a denial. I asked for a guesstimate on how long the delay would be and he replied that they "hope" to be caught up by the middle of January. Since that is really close to being 30 days on my dros I asked him if I would have have to resubmit my dros if the delay lasted longer than January 15th and his reply was that right now the 30 day clock is stopped on all "delayed" dros applications, so no I will not be required to resubmit the dros even if it goes into February.

Not sure what all that really means, but I thought I'd pass along the info I that CA DOJ is telling folks.

Hope this helps.

This is B.S. Ten days means ten days!

madjack956
12-28-2012, 5:26 PM
I dont want to sound like the tin foil hat guy but, Colorado and Cali are having the same problem. Is it possibly a stall tactic?

randian
12-28-2012, 6:19 PM
This is B.S. Ten days means ten days!
Not unless there's a specified penalty or result in the law. For example, automatic approval if the 10 day limit isn't met, or the applicant gets that one for free. Otherwise, I submit "ten days" means nothing.

echo1
12-31-2012, 12:33 PM
In March I got a "delay delivery" tag to my FFL on an AR lower DROS. It was for a feloney VC arrest in 1971, resolved as a misdemeanor. I attempted to retrieve the records as the DOJ requested but to no avail, as the court purges misdemeanors prior to 1975. I wrote to the DOJ and spelled out what I tried to do and what I was told by the records department. To my surprise a DOJ agent called me (in September) and said it was straightened out, and email sent to the FFL approving the DROS, and in the future I would not have any issues. I went right out and bought a Century SKS to see if there would be a hang up. None (nice Sinobainian too). They made it good and fixed the errors.
FYI $1200 bucks was a lot of ducats in '71 to fix my bad teen age (19)judgement. Thanks Dad. PAX

wildhawker
12-31-2012, 2:00 PM
I dont want to sound like the tin foil hat guy but, Colorado and Cali are having the same problem. Is it possibly a stall tactic?

Mutually exclusive issues.

-Brandon

gigglemonkee
01-02-2013, 2:30 PM
Just called again 2 weeks into delay and have been told I just have to wait and the analysts will get to it when they get to it. Also any firearm purchases I do in meantime will automatically go into delay as well.

cuat_420
01-02-2013, 9:05 PM
I also spoke to them recently and I was told that if your dros was delayed, they are not even looking at them until gun sales die down. The problem is, they only have 10 days to look at a new request...if they miss one because they are busy reevaluating the delayed requests, there is a potential for someone to slip through who isn't authorized to have one. Please don't read this as "I agree with them", because I dont and I think it is bs. Mine is delayed for an arrest in 1995 that never even went to court because the charges were dropped. I joined the military in 1997 and currently hold an active top secret clearance. I went back to TN last month, got certified/notarized copies of the warrant and disposition, and faxed them over on the 21st of Dec. They will neither confirm that they have received the faxes nor give me any idea of when it will be resolved. I have tried to provide proof of ny TS clearance, and was told I would just have to wait. I have given my info to Brandon, and I encourage everyone else to do the same if you havent already.

cuat_420
01-02-2013, 9:06 PM
Double Post

cdtx2001
01-04-2013, 2:55 PM
A guy bought an AR off me a couple months ago and is delayed. DOJ keeps tellung him to call this person or that, and they need paperwork for another thing. He is not a prohibited person and they supposedly don't like an arrest (with no conviction, case dismissed) from over 10 years ago.

I'm trying to get him to sign up here so the pros can help him better than I can.

gigglemonkee
01-04-2013, 5:24 PM
Found out mine is delayed because of a parking ticket I am disputing in San Diego. Until they clear it up with no time frame I can't pick up my cz or any other firearm I decide to purchase and it can take months with the backlog.

cuat_420
01-04-2013, 5:34 PM
I have been delayed since Dec. 7th. All the numbers I have called only go thru to the message about the hours they will accept calls, so please give me some other numbers that you have gotten thru on. This is driving me crazy. Oh and yes I have e-mailed as well.

Just keep calling. I have had to call, hang up, call, hang up, etc for 30 minutes or so until someone answers. If the recording starts to play, hang up and call right back...I look at the recording as a busy signal. Eventually you will get through, but it will be of no use because it will be a guy/girl in another building who will tell you that they are so busy the actual people reviewing the DROS are not taking calls...they will be of little to no help and just tell you that you have to wait. Good luck, and if someone does eventually get through to an agent that can answer questions, PLEASE let us know!!

Zues
01-04-2013, 11:46 PM
I got told that I my dros is being delayed today and when I called the doj they had a message play saying that they are not excepting calls until Jan 14th. I have nothing on my record and have had no tickets of any sort. I think it is bs though.

RP1911
01-05-2013, 12:16 AM
I just hope all these cases can be used to knock down the 10-day wait to instant check system.

DarthSean
01-05-2013, 2:55 AM
1. If the DROS fees are getting sent somewhere else, is there some way to challenge their existence in court? Especially since Yee wants new fees?

2. Other countries like South Africa have used endless and deliberately short-staffed bureaucracy to essentially stop firearm purchases. Is there any way to challenge the CA DROS as a 2A violation? Also, if CA was forces to use the FBI's national system, wouldn't that also put pressure on CA to accept the funding from the 2007 NICS Improvement act, and thus make a strong legal case to force the state to implement a program to restore gun rights on a case-by-case basis to people that were committed under questionable circumstances, or who have been successfully treated to where a prohibition is no longer appropriate?

PlayHard
01-05-2013, 12:57 PM
I am now on my 76th day in DROS. The person who was my contact can no longer take or make calls . . . I wrote a post here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=664783) about the "New DROS System", as mentioned to me by a lower-level DOJ Representative . . . do some of you believe me now?!?

I have submitted my info to the CGN Foundation . . . any help would be appreciated.

Dantedamean
01-05-2013, 3:23 PM
I am now on my 76th day in DROS. The person who was my contact can no longer take or make calls . . . I wrote a post here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=664783) about the "New DROS System", as mentioned to me by a lower-level DOJ Representative . . . do some of you believe me now?!?

I have submitted my info to the CGN Foundation . . . any help would be appreciated.

Wow, I would be on the phone every 10 minutes arguing with someone.

PlayHard
01-05-2013, 3:56 PM
I did . . . twice a week, religiously. Now everything goes thru the hotline until 1/14/13.

clbshooter
01-05-2013, 6:54 PM
Dantedamean---no you would not. This is happening to me and alot of other people. First thing first they WILL not answer the phone. Second if they do call you back after you leave a message or respond to a e-mail the person you are talking to is not the DROS person who is making the decisions just a flunky answering the phone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU need to read the threads completely before you make such a rash statement. What you and alot of other fellow gun enthusiasts need to do is search here and read all the posts to really understand what is going on. Oh another thing, are you married, have kids, have a job, have parents that need you, have a dog that needs to go for a walk, need to tend to your yard. When do you have the time to call them between 1 pm and 4PM when they were excepting calls but now say no calls until 1-14-13 but this date will be pushed out as well. Going thru this has made me feel like a criminal but I assure everyone that is not the case with me and most of the people that have been delayed. Think about this and put yourself in our shoes on how you would do anything differently than anyone that this is happening to. Ok end of rant but seriously search the threads and then come to an informed opinion. I am/was a normal tax paying law abiding caring person but what I believe is happening is that CADOJ IS SEEING JUST HOW FAR THEY CAN PUSH THE GOOD PEOPLE OF THIS STATE TO KEEP THEM FROM EXERCISING THEIR 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS. Ok now is the end of my rant but this is going to be the norm instead of the exception to all of us.

Dantedamean
01-05-2013, 9:48 PM
Dantedamean---no you would not. This is happening to me and alot of other people. First thing first they WILL not answer the phone. Second if they do call you back after you leave a message or respond to a e-mail the person you are talking to is not the DROS person who is making the decisions just a flunky answering the phone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU need to read the threads completely before you make such a rash statement. What you and alot of other fellow gun enthusiasts need to do is search here and read all the posts to really understand what is going on. Oh another thing, are you married, have kids, have a job, have parents that need you, have a dog that needs to go for a walk, need to tend to your yard. When do you have the time to call them between 1 pm and 4PM when they were excepting calls but now say no calls until 1-14-13 but this date will be pushed out as well. Going thru this has made me feel like a criminal but I assure everyone that is not the case with me and most of the people that have been delayed. Think about this and put yourself in our shoes on how you would do anything differently than anyone that this is happening to. Ok end of rant but seriously search the threads and then come to an informed opinion. I am/was a normal tax paying law abiding caring person but what I believe is happening is that CADOJ IS SEEING JUST HOW FAR THEY CAN PUSH THE GOOD PEOPLE OF THIS STATE TO KEEP THEM FROM EXERCISING THEIR 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS. Ok now is the end of my rant but this is going to be the norm instead of the exception to all of us.

Wow dude chill out, first off if you had read the whole thread you would see that I have been posting here since it started as another thread. So yes I understand what is going on, you ever hear the squeaky wheel gets the grease? You bug them enough and maybe they'll get tired of dealing with you, maybe they won't. Sitting there waiting won't do anything.

Don't worry I'll let you know how it goes because I purchased a shot gun a few days ago, it hasn't shipped yet and I haven't been able to start the DROS. However I am fairly certain that it will be delayed as I have a past arrest.

Citadelonline
01-05-2013, 9:56 PM
I'd like to hear from, in this thread or a separate thread, individuals who have DROS'd a firearm with no conflicts, delays or questionable denials during the recent time period in question.
A little balance might be useful in characterizing the proportionality, extent and relative number of processing issues being experienced.

Gabriel80
01-05-2013, 10:57 PM
I'd like to hear from, in this thread or a separate thread, individuals who have DROS'd a firearm with no conflicts, delays or questionable denials during the recent time period in question.
A little balance might be useful in characterizing the proportionality, extent and relative number of processing issues being experienced.

Me too! Anyone pick up an AR or AK when they're supposed to? Anyone dros anything at the end of 2012 and get it in 10 or 11 days?

I've never been convicted of a crime. I own 5 firearms, the last one I drosed was delayed by 1 (or 2?) days, which was far early last year (pre panic and back up). I believe the delay was a mistake, or "just making sure" as DOJ said.

I've got my 6th firearm in jail right now (my first "black rifle") and for some reason I'm paranoid it will be caught up in delay. I really have nothing that would make me inelligible from clearing but we all know how busy DOJ is.

My pick up date is Jan 14th and I'm pretty excited/nervous, anyone care to share a recent, positive and smooth, normal experience?

Dustyzz
01-06-2013, 1:01 PM
Well my wife,sister-in-law, and brother-in-law all bought their first hand guns in December and had no dros issues... I on the other hand am now on day 21 of the dros process. I am assuming my delay is because of a misdemeanor assault conviction from 1982 ( I was 21 and got into a bar fight , I got 6 months unadjudicated probation but as I understand this will still show up as a conviction.) However I have no way to confirm why I am on DROS delay since the DROS department isn't accepting calls. I guess the issue that I have with the CA DOJ is that the DROS department isn't taking calls until January 14th (maybe or maybe not) so I am literally being denied my 2A rights without any method of appeal or recourse. I understand the need to keep firearms out of bad guys hands but this is bordering on abusing the rights of law abiding citizens.

Hoooper
01-08-2013, 10:59 AM
I'd like to hear from, in this thread or a separate thread, individuals who have DROS'd a firearm with no conflicts, delays or questionable denials during the recent time period in question.
A little balance might be useful in characterizing the proportionality, extent and relative number of processing issues being experienced.

I picked up on 1/2/13, no issues or delays at all

scsurfer
01-08-2013, 11:49 AM
I bought a gun in November. No problem. Bought one on the 28th of dec. and it is in delay. If there was a problem wouldn't it have come out on the first purchase in nov. I called yesterday and left a message. I got a call today saying that the back ground check needed to be investigated. And they will not look at my case until the. 15th and it could be even longer. There has got to be some bump that test the 2 amendment. Could we see a huge law suit against the state?

brandon1234
01-08-2013, 11:56 AM
I bought a gun in November. No problem. Bought one on the 28th of dec. and it is in delay. If there was a problem wouldn't it have come out on the first purchase in nov. I called yesterday and left a message. I got a call today saying that the back ground check needed to be investigated. And they will not look at my case until the. 15th and it could be even longer. There has got to be some bump that test the 2 amendment. Could we see a huge law suit against the state?

No criminal history? Sometimes it seems that some state employees might investigate things others were not concerned with. If that makes any sense?

JoeyJ
01-08-2013, 12:12 PM
Purchased in July 12 no problem, purchased a Ruger SR22 on Dec 31st and just got a call from the dealer that I was delayed. called BOF number and it's just a outgoing message to call their general info number. Left a message there but sure if I get any reply it will be that I'm delayed pending further investigation. I can understand that they want to make sure I haven't been arrested or been convicted in the last 6 months so I'll practice some patience and "assume" it's just for backlog reasons and not any other. I can understand that under the current circumstances, the last thing they want is to make a mistake on one person and have it come back to haunt all of us. Any idea if this is just a CA issue?

UPDATE: 1/8/13 2:25pm Unfortunately I missed the call but did get a call back from BOF. Basically the generic message, "it's our busiest time of the year, increased demand, doesn't mean you've been denied, may be something that needs documents from the courts to resolve and a call back number". Very friendly woman. Started out by saying she could only provide general info. Also said if I haven't heard anything by the 14th to call back. My get out of jail date was the 10th so not a huge wait.

dcannon003
01-08-2013, 12:53 PM
my firearms purchase has been delayed since 10/8/2012...i went ahead and got my firearms record review and was told theres theres a couple arrests on my record frm 20 and 30 yrs ago...both dismissed...i have in the last month received my Utah and Florida CCW permits...an attorney told me to just wait for them to release my purchase...that was 2 months ago...the firearms record review came wth a blank form "claim of alleged inaccuracy or incompleteness"...but i dont want make any mistakes or fill it out wrong and make things worse...i live in the SFV...anybody kno what i should do?

sevendayweekend
01-08-2013, 3:14 PM
i have a question regarding dros denials -

if the buyer of a firearm is delayed through the dros process what becomes of the firearm? can the seller get it back?


also, would a buyer that has had their dros delayed have to reapply & pay every 30 days until finally getting the thumbs up?


thanks for any input

gigglemonkee
01-08-2013, 3:35 PM
i have a question regarding dros denials -

if the buyer of a firearm is delayed through the dros process what becomes of the firearm? can the seller get it back?


also, would a buyer that has had their dros delayed have to reapply & pay every 30 days until finally getting the thumbs up?


thanks for any input

The 30 days is frozen while delayed. Once it comes back ok you have 30 days to pick up. I have been on delay since the 19th and asked the same thing. Funny is I got my 03ffl two weeks earlier and picked up a gun on the 18th

dcannon003
01-08-2013, 4:16 PM
is that ph # to contact the calif DOJ firearms purchasing 916 227 3752 or 3747 ?

sevendayweekend
01-08-2013, 4:37 PM
is that ph # to contact the calif DOJ firearms purchasing 916 227 3752 or 3747 ?

the # they say to call now is 916-227-7527


thanks for the input monkee
how do you find out when you are clear? does the ffl call the buyer, or does the buyer have to check with the ffl periodicly?

gigglemonkee
01-08-2013, 4:52 PM
the # they say to call now is 916-227-7527


thanks for the input monkee
how do you find out when you are clear? does the ffl call the buyer, or does the buyer have to check with the ffl periodicly?

I was told to call back regularly and check but that the ffl is supposed to call you

sevendayweekend
01-08-2013, 4:54 PM
I was told to call back regularly and check but that the ffl is supposed to call you

cool, thanks

S2000
01-08-2013, 6:19 PM
I DROS'd an AR-15 on 12/16 and a CZ 75 Handgun on 12/22 and picked up both without issue.

Frozenguy
01-08-2013, 10:21 PM
Just called again 2 weeks into delay and have been told I just have to wait and the analysts will get to it when they get to it. Also any firearm purchases I do in meantime will automatically go into delay as well.

This is not exactly accurate. I have put in 4 different DROS.
First got delayed.
Second had no delay and all three fire arms were released to me
Third was delayed.
Fourth I have heard no word yet, still five days left on wait. We'll see.

All different stores, two are ppt's.
Interestingly enough, the two delayed dros were for AR rifles/lowers. The ones released were not AR type.

gigglemonkee
01-08-2013, 10:31 PM
This is not exactly accurate. I have put in 4 different DROS.
First got delayed.
Second had no delay and all three fire arms were released to me
Third was delayed.
Fourth I have heard no word yet, still five days left on wait. We'll see.

All different stores, two are ppt's.
Interestingly enough, the two delayed dros were for AR rifles/lowers. The ones released were not AR type.

Mine is for a cz75 that is a ppt. I think it is linked to an open parking ticket because I cannot find anything else in my past that would affect it.

HOGDOG1955
01-09-2013, 11:33 AM
picked up a pistol yesterday and for the 2 hours i was there talkin people came pickin up, all on time, including ars

thehummerguy
01-09-2013, 1:11 PM
My buddy who bought an AR from me has been on Hold since before the shooting...DOJ refused to tell him why as they cannot verify who he is over the phone, I have called only to be told "there is nothing he can do, it's our problem to find out why he is denied" I asked if he in fact can call to at least talk with the person handling his file...NO she said, lately the phones are forwarded to another dept because as DOJ stated " they are back logged"

My buddy now wants to cancel the deal....can I call the dealer and have them cancel the DROS process and get the Gun back without a DROS on myself?

PlayHard
01-09-2013, 1:45 PM
On my 80th day in DROS now. My buddy who is a State Investigator pulled my record and there is nothing, at this time, that would prevent my approval.

frankm
01-09-2013, 1:50 PM
Drosed a pistol, ten days, no problem.

grant d
01-10-2013, 10:37 PM
Message

Message
My recent firearm transfer (10/30/2012) has been delayed. The reason i was told was a change in criteria because of a arrest in 1994( no conviction no trial and no disposition)Not to make light of this arrest,but the case had no merit as i was certainly the victim Please excuse my honesty if inappropriate) the records and any court documents of that arrest including any disposition has been purged. I have had a successful transfer of a handgun as recent as july of 2012. I have received fom your clerk a petition to seal and destroy adult arrest records but these records have been purged.(Your clerks response was to contact my assemblyman? in my district.) futhermore I was told although there was a delay on this purchase I could still legally possess firearms.OK There being no reason to believe prior to this delay (transfer in july of 2012) I completed a sale on gun brokers.com from a FFL for the amount of $1300.00 on 10/30/2012 The firearm was shipped to a local FFL. There is no returning this Firearm as all sales are final. OK im all about sealing arrest records so i can be able to PURCHASE firearms in the future,since i am able to possess firearms according to the DOJ,i would prefer to go FORWARD by having this transfer started again in my spouses name. MY FFL dealer says he cannot do this without something in writing from the DOJ verifing I can posess firearms (because we reside at the same address)to satisfy ATF regulations paperwork? (straw purchase??)Please give my situation the attention it deserves. THANK YOU!! Sincerely, Grant M. Dorsey

Citadelonline
01-10-2013, 11:55 PM
The reason i was told was a change in criteria because of a arrest in 1994( no conviction no trial and no disposition)Not to make light of this arrest,but the case had no merit as i was certainly the victim Please excuse my honesty if inappropriate) the records and any court documents of that arrest including any disposition has been purged.
The CA DOJ has been asking for the final dispositions of arrest records when it can not determine one from their records.

Whether the case had merit or not is irrelevant. If the arrest record was expunged, the state may still be able to see the arrest but not the final disposal of your case.
Was the arrest in CA? If so contact a CA attorney who will be able to petition the court for the appropriate record that shows you were not convicted of a crime.

In my opinion this would be more productive and safer than requesting a formal opinion from the DOJ as to your legal status regarding the possession of a firearm.

Frozenguy
01-11-2013, 8:57 AM
Woo hoo!! My S&W MP15 :gunsmilie: lowers have finally been released to me after 14 days past the 10 day wait. :60:
Just waiting for a call from the other store releasing my KD lowers. :toetap05:

tcrpe
01-11-2013, 9:13 AM
"Change in Criteria"

clbshooter
01-11-2013, 2:49 PM
I also want to know what "change in criteria" means. What the DOJ is doing should be against the law PERIOD.

mrdd
01-11-2013, 2:51 PM
I also want to know what "change in criteria" means. What the DOJ is doing should be against the law PERIOD.

Unfortunately, it does not appear to be against the law.

The law merely states the minimum waiting period, but there is no statutory maximum.

wildhawker
01-11-2013, 3:23 PM
Unfortunately, it does not appear to be against the law.

The law merely states the minimum waiting period, but there is no statutory maximum.

We don't agree with your analysis.

-Brandon

PlayHard
01-11-2013, 3:43 PM
82nd day in DROS and got a call from my DOJ contact. We have been waiting on an update in DOJ records so the DROS can be approved. To date (from Oct 22 2012) DOJ records have not been updated . . . DROS is still in delay. Contacted a Calguns recommended attorney and told to file a Form 8706 - “Claim of Inaccuracy or Incompleteness”, with a certified copy of my local court change in status. All this could be another long wait, but I am fighting for my 2nd Amendment right as a legal person who can own a firearm.

mrdd
01-11-2013, 3:55 PM
We don't agree with your analysis.

-Brandon

I hope I am wrong, but I cannot see where a maximum is spelled out in the law.

I guess it would be asking too much for you to explain?

BumBum
01-11-2013, 4:01 PM
I DROS'd an AR-15 just before Christmas, and picked it up without delay on 1/2/13. Not even a delay with two state holidays during the waiting period.

kemasa
01-11-2013, 6:13 PM
I hope I am wrong, but I cannot see where a maximum is spelled out in the law.

I guess it would be asking too much for you to explain?

I am not a lawyer, but how would you feel if the CA DOJ just started marking every single DROS as delayed? Do you think that would be a problem? If that is a problem, then what percentage would not be a problem? There needs to be a valid reason for the delay, not just that they have not gotten around to it. As far as I know, they don't have any proof of a problem, but they are attempting to force people to prove that they are innocent.

mrdd
01-12-2013, 4:44 AM
I am not a lawyer, but how would you feel if the CA DOJ just started marking every single DROS as delayed? Do you think that would be a problem? If that is a problem, then what percentage would not be a problem? There needs to be a valid reason for the delay, not just that they have not gotten around to it. As far as I know, they don't have any proof of a problem, but they are attempting to force people to prove that they are innocent.

I understand. Let me be more specific: what they are doing does not appear to violate the state laws concerning the waiting period. I understand it likely violates various parts of the U.S. Constitution: equal protection, due process, as well as rights under the 2nd amendment.

Challenging the constitutional aspects is fairly involved, as we all know.

SpaceMan
01-12-2013, 9:21 AM
I DROS'd a couple firearms this year, no problems at all. I've also sold a couple firearms this year and the buyers have had no such issues. My last DROS was in November, I am going for another DROS on Monday for a lever action.

A buddy if mine in AZ recently purchased a handgun. He received a DELAY. As far as I understand, DOJ only has 48 hours to either release the firearm into your possetion or deny you. If they do not contact the FFL in 48 hours the FFL has to release the firearm to you.

Gabriel80
01-12-2013, 9:38 AM
I DROS'd a couple firearms this year, no problems at all. I've also sold a couple firearms this year and the buyers have had no such issues. My last DROS was in November, I am going for another DROS on Monday for a lever action.

A buddy if mine in AZ recently purchased a handgun. He received a DELAY. As far as I understand, DOJ only has 48 hours to either release the firearm into your possetion or deny you. If they do not contact the FFL in 48 hours the FFL has to release the firearm to you.

Is that in AZ? I drosed a handgun last year before the panic. And the release wasn't delayed until the 10th day. My FFL showed me the time stamp on the email of when they processed it and it was literally the last minute. I had to jump through some pointless hoops about a misdemeanor trespassing charge that was dropped 12 years ago and they released the pistol on the 11th or 12th day.

With my ak47 set to release on Monday I am nervous (hopefully for no reason besides paranoia) it will be smooth. It's been over a week and no bad news from FFL yet but being what happened before I have no confidence in the DOJ anymore.

Fingers crossed!!

kemasa
01-12-2013, 12:13 PM
I understand. Let me be more specific: what they are doing does not appear to violate the state laws concerning the waiting period. I understand it likely violates various parts of the U.S. Constitution: equal protection, due process, as well as rights under the 2nd amendment.

Challenging the constitutional aspects is fairly involved, as we all know.

Change your view, where does the law allow for the CA DOJ to decide to delay the transfer when they don't have any information that you are prohibited. Just because a person was arrested does not mean that they are prohibited. If they were convicted, there would be a record, but it seems that the DOJ is instead demanding proof that they are innocent. An arrest from years ago would have been a conviction OR dropped/not-guilty, it would not be pending.

edwardm
01-12-2013, 5:00 PM
I hope I am wrong, but I cannot see where a maximum is spelled out in the law.

I guess it would be asking too much for you to explain?

I'm not sure what Brandon is getting at, since he has insights I don't have. That said, I'd wander off the reservation and not immediately look to statute. I would instead look at things that 'substantially burden' a fundamental right.

Then there is the question of performance of ministerial duties and whether those duties are performed appropriately. I haven't really thought that one out deeply, but it might make for an interesting private cause of action.

mrdd
01-12-2013, 7:39 PM
Change your view, where does the law allow for the CA DOJ to decide to delay the transfer when they don't have any information that you are prohibited. Just because a person was arrested does not mean that they are prohibited. If they were convicted, there would be a record, but it seems that the DOJ is instead demanding proof that they are innocent. An arrest from years ago would have been a conviction OR dropped/not-guilty, it would not be pending.

I understand what you are saying and I agree completely. I think this situation stinks. My point is that the state law is very vague about how the background check is performed. Actually, that is an understatement: the law does not spell out anything about the process. And this is why they are getting away with what they are doing now.

wildhawker
01-12-2013, 8:58 PM
I guess it would be asking too much for you to explain?

It would be at this time. Two weeks...

-Brandon

One78Shovel
01-13-2013, 12:59 AM
Me too! Anyone pick up an AR or AK when they're supposed to? Anyone dros anything at the end of 2012 and get it in 10 or 11 days?

I've never been convicted of a crime. I own 5 firearms, the last one I drosed was delayed by 1 (or 2?) days, which was far early last year (pre panic and back up). I believe the delay was a mistake, or "just making sure" as DOJ said.

I've got my 6th firearm in jail right now (my first "black rifle") and for some reason I'm paranoid it will be caught up in delay. I really have nothing that would make me inelligible from clearing but we all know how busy DOJ is.

My pick up date is Jan 14th and I'm pretty excited/nervous, anyone care to share a recent, positive and smooth, normal experience?

I had no issues. Picked it up 7 Jan.

-178S

kemasa
01-13-2013, 10:56 AM
I guess it would be asking too much for you to explain?

BTW, it is best to remember that this forum is PUBLIC. This means that you have to assume that anyone and everyone is reading this and I know that the CA DOJ and BATF have people who read these forums.

This means that you don't want certain aspects made public so that the other side can plan a defense or bogus claim in advance of any action. While you might want to know, it does not serve the best interest of yourself, as well as others, for those who are involved in taking action to publicly post their game plan.

mrdd
01-13-2013, 11:19 AM
BTW, it is best to remember that this forum is PUBLIC. This means that you have to assume that anyone and everyone is reading this and I know that the CA DOJ and BATF have people who read these forums.

This means that you don't want certain aspects made public so that the other side can plan a defense or bogus claim in advance of any action. While you might want to know, it does not serve the best interest of yourself, as well as others, for those who are involved in taking action to publicly post their game plan.

Thank you, but I think that Brandon is quite capable of handling his own dissemination of information by himself.

cowboyup
01-13-2013, 11:22 AM
Wow, didn't know this was going on. Watching n reading.

kemasa
01-13-2013, 11:30 AM
Thank you, but I think that Brandon is quite capable of handling his own dissemination of information by himself.

You missed the point completely.

mrdd
01-13-2013, 5:02 PM
You missed the point completely.

No, I did not. I made a couple of observations about the state law, which the DOJ is already well aware of.

I think we should just leave it there.

kemasa
01-13-2013, 5:07 PM
No, I did not. I made a couple of observations about the state law, which the DOJ is already well aware of.

I think we should just leave it there.

Yes, you did, you wanted an explanation on a public forum.

rritterson
01-13-2013, 6:52 PM
I have not tangled with the DOJ in my previous DROSes, so pardon my ignorant questions, but:

On what basis can any entity use merely an arrest record for denying someone an explicitly granted and protected right? That would seem to be an obvious violation of the principle that one is innocent until proven guilty, and seemingly due process too (though I have no law degree). If the DOJ can't actually deny a DROS simply because you have been arrested without later being convicted for the same offense, but then why is DOJ allowed to examine arrest records at all? I'm SURE landlords cannot deny tenant applications because of arrest records and would probably get sued to high hell for doing so.

I'm sure the DOJ would say that the conviction databases are sometimes incomplete, so they use the arrest record to find the relevant case and don't deny anyone simply because of an arrest, but I'd maintain the government's ineptitude at maintaining adequate records is not an excuse for a due process violation. If a prosecuting attorney cannot get a case together in a reasonable amount of time, does the right to a speedy trial also go out the window?

Of course I'm not in the DOJ offices, but from reading the anecdotes here, it sounds like anyone who has ever been arrested (including for an outstanding parking infraction) automatically gets flagged and put in a separate pile that they are not even looking at right now while they clear all of the people whose records come up blank first. This is why some people have no delay and others are in an indefinite holding pattern. While this prioritization is expedient for the DOJ, it seems legally fishy to unequally apply things, especially for those flagged for something that, on its own, would not even come close to disqualifying someone from owning a firearm.

I am all for denying criminals, especially violent ones, from owning firearms, but, really, arrest records should be sealed without a court order and expunged completely after 3 years or some short period of time.

mrdd
01-13-2013, 6:55 PM
Yes, you did, you wanted an explanation on a public forum.

So? We were having a discussion. When Brandon indicated he did not want to discuss it further, the point was dropped.

Are you saying we should just close up the whole forum and go home?

kemasa
01-13-2013, 6:57 PM
No, I am saying you should consider what should not be discussed in public. Also, look how you asked him to explain.

gigglemonkee
01-13-2013, 7:12 PM
So I still can't figure why I am on delay. Clean DMV record. No arrests. And I have bought 12 other firearms this year. One 3 days before this one.

jeffyboy
01-13-2013, 11:05 PM
After 25 years of firearm purchases I was hit with a DOJ "delayed status" last week. Called and got an "excuse" about an event 24 years ago that had no disposition. Never came up once during numerous DROS's before. :mad:

edwardm
01-14-2013, 6:17 AM
On what basis can any entity use merely an arrest record for denying someone an explicitly granted and protected right? That would seem to be an obvious violation of the principle that one is innocent until proven guilty, and seemingly due process too (though I have no law degree). If the DOJ can't actually deny a DROS simply because you have been arrested without later being convicted for the same offense, but then why is DOJ allowed to examine arrest records at all? I'm SURE landlords cannot deny tenant applications because of arrest records and would probably get sued to high hell for doing so.



See ATF Form 4473, q. 11b. If there is no disposition, CalDOJ cannot (apparently) determine if you have been charged with a felony, whether those charges are still pending, etc. CA has to clear you both for the state and the Fed requirements.

cuat_420
01-14-2013, 10:32 AM
10:30 on January 14th, and the message is still the same...

gigglemonkee
01-14-2013, 1:48 PM
Just got off the phone. They are not going to take calls for at least another two weeks and there is nothing that could be done to speed it up or even have a case looked at. They are too busy doing current purchases to even look at any of the backlog right now.

cuat_420
01-14-2013, 1:54 PM
Does anyone know if you can legally cancel a DROS and have the gun shipped to an FFL in another state? I am a TN resident and they don't require a wait for rifles, so I could pick it up there with no problem...Just trying to find a way to not keep waiting for a gun that never should have been delayed in the first place!

gigglemonkee
01-14-2013, 2:04 PM
Everyone go to this page and call your Representative http://senate.ca.gov/senators.

I just got off the phone with Marty Block's office and recommended that they propose a law that states if a background check can not be performed in a reasonable amount of time such as 2 months then the firearm should be released. I figure if we can be squeaky and loud enough then we can raise even more awareness about these injustices.

mrdd
01-14-2013, 2:09 PM
See ATF Form 4473, q. 11b. If there is no disposition, CalDOJ cannot (apparently) determine if you have been charged with a felony, whether those charges are still pending, etc. CA has to clear you both for the state and the Fed requirements.

I don't think that matters. The question on the form is whether you are under indictment for a felony offense. In other words, are you currently being prosecuted. I have to believe that if the answer is yes, the court is going to have the info readily available. If the court does not have the info, the answer must be no.

fairfaxjim
01-15-2013, 11:05 AM
Everyone go to this page and call your Representative http://senate.ca.gov/senators.

I just got off the phone with Marty Block's office and recommended that they propose a law that states if a background check can not be performed in a reasonable amount of time such as 2 months 10 days then the firearm should be released. I figure if we can be squeaky and loud enough then we can raise even more awareness about these injustices.

There I fixed it for you - seems that the state finds 10 days reasonable.

edwardm
01-15-2013, 2:55 PM
I don't think that matters. The question on the form is whether you are under indictment for a felony offense. In other words, are you currently being prosecuted. I have to believe that if the answer is yes, the court is going to have the info readily available. If the court does not have the info, the answer must be no.

If the rap sheet shows a case with no disposition, there is no way to know if the case is still open. So you may or may not be under indictment and the computer doesn't know, which means the fleshling looking at the computer doesn't know which leads to a hold/deny/no-go/etc.

Arrest records are another matter, though.

gigglemonkee
01-15-2013, 2:58 PM
Just talked again and got the following numbers from DOJ. No checks for delayed guns have been done since before black friday. There are 14 analysts and 4 supervisors who have authorization to do checks. They started working on the backlog yesterday afternoon and hope to do a few hundred a day although there is a backlog of over 15000 delays.

mrdd
01-15-2013, 3:23 PM
If the rap sheet shows a case with no disposition, there is no way to know if the case is still open. So you may or may not be under indictment and the computer doesn't know, which means the fleshling looking at the computer doesn't know which leads to a hold/deny/no-go/etc.

Arrest records are another matter, though.

Holding someone under indictment indefinitely would be a violation of the 6th amendment.

Lack of disposition should not matter. If there is no active prosecution, there is no indictment.

cuat_420
01-15-2013, 3:33 PM
If the rap sheet shows a case with no disposition, there is no way to know if the case is still open. So you may or may not be under indictment and the computer doesn't know, which means the fleshling looking at the computer doesn't know which leads to a hold/deny/no-go/etc.

Arrest records are another matter, though.


I would agree with that if the arrest was in the past year...but mine was in 1995 (and there are other people who are older than that) with no disposition because it never went to court...if they are hiring people that can't understand that a case is not still pending after 18 years, then we have bigger problems!

PlayHard
01-16-2013, 1:45 PM
87th day in DROS and now have three different answers from three different people.

Issue for delay - My records have not been updated with the DOJ - Disposition change on a 1997 case on October 22, 2012.

DOJ Field Agent - Just get a certified copy of the disposition order and have court fax the DOJ (then he gave me the fax number).

Attorney listed on Cal Guns Foundation - Just fill out form 8706 (he emailed me the form) and mail it to the DOJ (Records and Review Dept), along with a certified copy of the court order and a letter describing why I am sending them this information.

My contact in the DROS division - says DOJ Agent is wrong . . . that is the DROS division fax number and they will NOT make any record changes, as ordered by the division director.

- says Attorney is wrong - DOJ has to start the process, so it can be logged with a CII#, as initiated with a Live Scan and it's the only way the DOJ will accept outside source records.

- then says Records and Review Dept has not updated any information - this goes for thousands in my same position. Only way to have them update is a Live Scan, Request for RAP sheet and then file a 8706 form to have a review on inaccurate information.

I have no idea what to do or where to start the process. The local courts sent my disposition to the DOJ electronically on 10/22/12, to which MY attorney stated I could now make a new gun purchase.

Suggestions or comments very welcome . . . because after 87 days, I am completely frustrated and tired with this process. Calgunners, I ask for your help.

BHLiu11
01-16-2013, 7:15 PM
Hey Guys,

One of my friend and I went into purchase a handgun each. Mine went through with flying colors but he got the call from the shop that DOJ sent them a hold on his DROS.

My friend called several times but the person at the other end said he would receive a letter in the mail as in why he is not allowed. The person at DOJ hinted that it might have been his red light ticket that he failed to pay.

Been over a month, his gun went back for sale, lost "restocking fee", and still no letter from DOJ.

He is freaking out that he can not own guns.

Any idea how long it takes for him to get the letter?

mrdd
01-17-2013, 5:29 AM
Been over a month, his gun went back for sale, lost "restocking fee", and still no letter from DOJ.

I am confused by this. Did he not already pay for the gun? Unless he is actually denied, the FFL has no cause to put the gun back up for sale.

edwardm
01-17-2013, 7:00 AM
Holding someone under indictment indefinitely would be a violation of the 6th amendment.

Lack of disposition should not matter. If there is no active prosecution, there is no indictment.

Jurisdictional issues of the court would not necessarily implicate the 6th Amendment.

You're not getting it. CalDOJ is looking at a computer screen with a piece of information. They don't know the background. Usually because courts have been bad about sending CalDOJ updates. I deal with this problem *regularly*.

edwardm
01-17-2013, 7:02 AM
I would agree with that if the arrest was in the past year...but mine was in 1995 (and there are other people who are older than that) with no disposition because it never went to court...if they are hiring people that can't understand that a case is not still pending after 18 years, then we have bigger problems!

They aren't going to second-guess the data (or lack thereof) on the screen. That is not their job. For an arrest in 1995 I am actually NOT surprised you are running into this problem. The CalDOJ databases are notoriously incomplete.

Grizzerman
01-17-2013, 8:16 AM
I bought a used AR 50 Beowulf on the 4th of Jan. and picked it up yesterday...no DROS holdup at all. I'm picking up a Ruger LC9 today that I also purchased on the 4th.

BHLiu11
01-17-2013, 9:23 AM
mrdd .... He paid for it in full .. The response from the gun shop was that since he did not pick up within 30 day and his DROS was delayed, he can either re DROS or && get refunded. Since he was in a limbo, he decided to take the $$ back and lost 10% restocking fee. I even offered to buy so that my friend will not lose $ 50 for no reason and the shop said no.

I am very sure that the shop did that due to supply and demand issues. I have no doubt that the gun went back on sale with higer price.

I am confused by this. Did he not already pay for the gun? Unless he is actually denied, the FFL has no cause to put the gun back up for sale.

cuat_420
01-17-2013, 6:03 PM
They aren't going to second-guess the data (or lack thereof) on the screen. That is not their job. For an arrest in 1995 I am actually NOT surprised you are running into this problem. The CalDOJ databases are notoriously incomplete.

I don't disagree that their databases are incomplete. The problem is, before April of last year, people who have been buying/selling guns for 20+ years never had a problem...same DROS process involved on numerous occasions. Now, all of the sudden, these "issues" are surfacing? Really? How does someone buy 4 guns in a 1 week period and have two delayed and two approved? How does someone get a delay 8 months ago, the DOJ clears it and releases it, doesn't surface a s a problem for the next 8 months, now the same charge the DOJ already cleared is a problem again?

The problem is their inconsistency and lack of information to the customer on the cause for the delay and how to prevent this from being a problem in the future. I provided them the required disposition paperwork, and they were certified copies. They will neither confirm nor deny they have received them, nor do I even know if they will accept them from me vice the courts. I have asked if I can give them information to verify my active top secret clearance...nope, just wait. My arrest was in another state with my previous drivers license info, and it literally took my 6 hours on the phone with more than a dozen people to track the information down...is the DOJ going to do this? Doubtful...it will end up denied because they don't have time to keep digging. Sorry for the rant, but it is obvious that the system is SEVERELY flawed and the law abiding citizens are paying for it.

clbshooter
01-17-2013, 6:23 PM
Cuat, I believe this is happening on purpose. It is their attempt to keep legal people from purchasing more guns. I am going thru the same problem. The only thing in my past was in 1972 and all charges were dropped when investigated. I have been in Ca., for over 3 years now and this is my 5th purchase from the same FFL. I Lived in Va., for 50 years and never had this happen EVER. I am thinking about moving to a state that actually cares how they treat normal people.

cuat_420
01-17-2013, 6:47 PM
Cuat, I believe this is happening on purpose. It is their attempt to keep legal people from purchasing more guns. I am going thru the same problem. The only thing in my past was in 1972 and all charges were dropped when investigated. I have been in Ca., for over 3 years now and this is my 5th purchase from the same FFL. I Lived in Va., for 50 years and never had this happen EVER. I am thinking about moving to a state that actually cares how they treat normal people.


I wish I had that option right now. 16 years active duty, and my last 4 will be here in California...at which point I will DEFINITELY be going back to the Tennessee area!

mrdd
01-18-2013, 3:03 AM
mrdd .... He paid for it in full .. The response from the gun shop was that since he did not pick up within 30 day and his DROS was delayed, he can either re DROS or && get refunded. Since he was in a limbo, he decided to take the $$ back and lost 10% restocking fee. I even offered to buy so that my friend will not lose $ 50 for no reason and the shop said no.

I am very sure that the shop did that due to supply and demand issues. I have no doubt that the gun went back on sale with higer price.

If he was delayed and not denied, there is no need to redo the DROS. A delay holds everything until the DOJ finishes the check.

Perhaps what happened is that the shop has a policy that if you are denied, you lose all your money? So, he got nervous and decided to get back most of his money now, rather than lose it all later? The problem is good luck resolving the issue with the DOJ without a DROS in progress.

cuat_420
01-18-2013, 9:48 AM
Has anyone been able to confirm or deny with absolute certainty on the way that CADOJ will accept documents proving the disposition of charges? I was told by one of the people who answered the phone that it just needs to be faxed to the number she provided, with attn to Loretta who is supposedly the person who is handling my case. That was done on 21Dec, yet they wont confirm receipt. It looks like the post above states that it can only come from the government agency which handled the charges originally...has anyone sent stuff in and had the weapon released?

clbshooter
01-18-2013, 11:02 AM
WOW, I just got a call from my FFL and I have been approved so off I go to pick up my (evil nasty rifle) 10-22 takedown. Good luck to the rest of you guys on this. It is a cluster **uk for for law abiding citizens of this state. I am probably going to DROS another one right away just to see what happens after this one.

gigglemonkee
01-18-2013, 11:17 AM
How long were you delayed for?

JDay
01-18-2013, 11:51 AM
Everyone go to this page and call your Representative http://senate.ca.gov/senators.

I just got off the phone with Marty Block's office and recommended that they propose a law that states if a background check can not be performed in a reasonable amount of time such as 2 months then the firearm should be released. I figure if we can be squeaky and loud enough then we can raise even more awareness about these injustices.

The background check is completed before you even leave the FFL. DOJ is just using any excuse they can to deny you your rights.

JDay
01-18-2013, 11:58 AM
mrdd .... He paid for it in full .. The response from the gun shop was that since he did not pick up within 30 day and his DROS was delayed, he can either re DROS or && get refunded. Since he was in a limbo, he decided to take the $$ back and lost 10% restocking fee. I even offered to buy so that my friend will not lose $ 50 for no reason and the shop said no.

I am very sure that the shop did that due to supply and demand issues. I have no doubt that the gun went back on sale with higer price.

No, they wouldn't sell it to you for fear of it being a straw purchase since your friend had attempted to buy it and was denied.

clbshooter
01-18-2013, 3:17 PM
Hey gigglemonkey, I bought it on Black friday and was delayed, on the 8th day of DROS, so longer than it should be. What is amazing is that I paid in full the same day I bought it then they wanted to charge me the addl tax since in went up Jan 1st. I told them if the needed the .74 cents that bad send a bill to Ca. D.O.J. maybe they will pay since it was their fault. I explained to them that this was my 5th purchase thru them without a hickup before this and that I am sorry I will not pay. They made up the diff.

cuat_420
01-18-2013, 6:41 PM
Hey gigglemonkey, I bought it on Black friday and was delayed, on the 8th day of DROS, so longer than it should be. What is amazing is that I paid in full the same day I bought it then they wanted to charge me the addl tax since in went up Jan 1st. I told them if the needed the .74 cents that bad send a bill to Ca. D.O.J. maybe they will pay since it was their fault. I explained to them that this was my 5th purchase thru them without a hickup before this and that I am sorry I will not pay. They made up the diff.

So hypothetically speaking, I should be close to at least having them review mine...My purchase was on Dec 6 and Delay was Dec 12th, so IF (big if) they are going in order of when they we're received/delayed, I wouldn't be too far behind. Either way, this is great news, as we now know they are looking at the delays!!

PlayHard
01-18-2013, 7:26 PM
I've been delayed since Oct. 22, 2012. I will have my certified copy of the court order to change disposition on Monday. I am going to fax it, mail it with a form and do a live scan on Friday, if I haven't heard anything.

I am very surprised some attorneys aren't weighing in on how to deal with the DOJ properly. Or those that have been on delay, sent in some info and got an approval. Please, please, please . . . someone provide some clear way to deal with the DOJ.

- PH (89th day of DROS :45: )

clbshooter
01-18-2013, 7:29 PM
Cuat, first of all thank you for your service. I don't think there is any rhyme or reason for the way they are looking at delays. The only thing I can think of is they look at a case and if there is any new info on it they act accordingly, if not it goes back to the bottom of the pile. :facepalm: :facepalm: ,. If they would only communicate with the buyers it would help them resolve the problem. It's just like in Cool Hand Luke "what we have here is a failure to commukate". I am going to buy another gun soon just to see if in happens again and I will let you all know what happens from when it is DROS'ed to when i pick it up. The biggest problem was this made me feel like a criminal and I understand your feelings, so good luck to you all and hang in there.

cuat_420
01-18-2013, 9:17 PM
Cuat, first of all thank you for your service. I don't think there is any rhyme or reason for the way they are looking at delays. The only thing I can think of is they look at a case and if there is any new info on it they act accordingly, if not it goes back to the bottom of the pile. :facepalm: :facepalm: ,. If they would only communicate with the buyers it would help them resolve the problem. It's just like in Cool Hand Luke "what we have here is a failure to commukate". I am going to buy another gun soon just to see if in happens again and I will let you all know what happens from when it is DROS'ed to when i pick it up. The biggest problem was this made me feel like a criminal and I understand your feelings, so good luck to you all and hang in there.

Thank you for positive feedback. I have contacted them in every way possible asking for guidance on how to prevent this in the future. I have sent emails to senators, congressmen, the attorney general and the bureau of firearms with no response. Hoping for the best, expecting the worst!

pitbull30
01-18-2013, 9:49 PM
They aren't going to second-guess the data (or lack thereof) on the screen. That is not their job. For an arrest in 1995 I am actually NOT surprised you are running into this problem. The CalDOJ databases are notoriously incomplete.

True. When I moved back to CA and registered a firearm I bought out of state I got a letter from CA saying I was unable to possess a firearm because I was a felon. 100% wrong. Slap in the face. WTF !!! I was transitioning from the military. After a long letter and Faxing my ID's I received another letter weeks later saying " thanks for registering"

clbshooter
01-19-2013, 12:02 AM
Cuat I don't understand what you are saying about my post. I never said anything that would bring about your accusations. Go look at post #15 and you will see that I am trying to figure this out along with everyone else. I don't give a rats a** what your user name is as I suspect you feel the same about mine, again not me. I also do not want or need any explanation from you about anything. I have been contributing information on this from the beginning trying to help with any info that I get so no crapping on my end. I will leave you with 2 things-1) read the entire post a few times and see who is making what comments. 2) Yes I know what I can do and I will keep doing it to the best of my ability. In summation you are way off base with what you are saying. The ONLY thing I was trying to get across to you is that you are not alone this is happening to a lot of good people here, just bare it out and it will resolve itself in time. I would recommend that you contact Mr. Combs, he is the man that started this thread, if you have not done so as he can help. Your situation may resolve itself before any action is taken but we need to have a record of all the un-necessary delays if it goes to court.

cuat_420
01-19-2013, 8:27 AM
Cuat I don't understand what you are saying about my post. I never said anything that would bring about your accusations. Go look at post #15 and you will see that I am trying to figure this out along with everyone else. I don't give a rats a** what your user name is as I suspect you feel the same about mine, again not me. I also do not want or need any explanation from you about anything. I have been contributing information on this from the beginning trying to help with any info that I get so no crapping on my end. I will leave you with 2 things-1) read the entire post a few times and see who is making what comments. 2) Yes I know what I can do and I will keep doing it to the best of my ability. In summation you are way off base with what you are saying. The ONLY thing I was trying to get across to you is that you are not alone this is happening to a lot of good people here, just bare it out and it will resolve itself in time. I would recommend that you contact Mr. Combs, he is the man that started this thread, if you have not done so as he can help. Your situation may resolve itself before any action is taken but we need to have a record of all the un-necessary delays if it goes to court.

clbshooter,

None of that post past the first sentence was intended for you...I started my rant in regards to others comments in a different thread (bad idea), which I see now got taken the wrong way! You have absolutely been nothing but helpful...so please delete the remainder of that post from your memory...I deleted it from the thread!! :facepalm:

Td261
01-19-2013, 8:30 AM
I recently was told the the DOJ had placed my purchase on hold. I called and called.. finally reaching someone who stated it is a case from 5/1999 that is incomplete or no disposition. This is a huge burden.. and now all I can do is wait? I have no idea what the charge even was, and its 14 years ago. What if the agency takes there time to get back to DOJ?

If I was told where the issue originated I could at least follow up!

I have my CCW interview with Placer in 2 weeks and I can have this issue causing problems.

Brandon can you help on this one?

Anyone help?

cuat_420
01-19-2013, 9:06 AM
I recently was told the the DOJ had placed my purchase on hold. I called and called.. finally reaching someone who stated it is a case from 5/1999 that is incomplete or no disposition. This is a huge burden.. and now all I can do is wait? I have no idea what the charge even was, and its 14 years ago. What if the agency takes there time to get back to DOJ?

If I was told where the issue originated I could at least follow up!

I have my CCW interview with Placer in 2 weeks and I can have this issue causing problems.

Brandon can you help on this one?

Anyone help?


Where did you live in 5/1999? Depending on who you talk to and where it is, you may be able to get some information over the phone. They told me when I called about mine that there was an arrest for assault in 1995 in Tennessee. Fortunately for me, I knew what it was...unfortunately, they had no record of it in the county clerks office or district courts since it was dismissed before being tried. I finally was able to contact the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, who found the arrest warrant, and that had the disposition noted on it. Now the next problem...I got copies and provided them to the CA DOJ, but I cannot confirm that they will accept the documents (certified and notarized) from the member, as I have heard it has to come from the government agency who holds the records. If it was in CA, you may be a lot better off, as they have more access to CA records than other states. Keep us posted, and let us know how it goes!

Oh yeah, the other possibility is a common name that may have been mistaken?

cuat_420
01-19-2013, 9:10 AM
True. When I moved back to CA and registered a firearm I bought out of state I got a letter from CA saying I was unable to possess a firearm because I was a felon. 100% wrong. Slap in the face. WTF !!! I was transitioning from the military. After a long letter and Faxing my ID's I received another letter weeks later saying " thanks for registering"

Gotta love CA!! I was telling my FFL (who is a friend of mine) that in Tennessee, you tell me you have a gun for sale for $500, I hand you $500, you hand me the gun...MAYBE a bill of sale. Even in stores there is no DROS or wait period for long guns, only hand guns.

lacmta-rick
01-21-2013, 12:26 AM
I sure hope I dont get a delay,im due to pick up 2 long rifles sunday,and 2 more on monday.Being as that people are being delayed,I cant help but think I will be in that boat as well.

I already own 2 firearms,but as others have said,they are looking everyone over with a fine tooth comb,especially after what has happened back east.I know they are backed up,but I think I will be one of the lucky ones that has to jump thru several hoops in order get my firearms.

Just watch,the only trouble ive ever had was a misd. B/A back in 98,as a 16yo juvenile,that was sealed,while it didnt prevent me from owning firearms before,I bet you they decide and bring that up.Just wait for my post either on sunday,or monday in regards to this lol.

JoeyJ
01-21-2013, 5:03 PM
I'm on day 22, still no reason or explanation. Purchased a rifle in July with no problems, answered the exact same questions in that case. There has got to be some other "new" process that has been instituted. Honestly, had my FFL shared the delay possibility I would have waited until the dust cleared.

edwardm
01-22-2013, 6:49 AM
I've been delayed since Oct. 22, 2012. I will have my certified copy of the court order to change disposition on Monday. I am going to fax it, mail it with a form and do a live scan on Friday, if I haven't heard anything.

I am very surprised some attorneys aren't weighing in on how to deal with the DOJ properly. Or those that have been on delay, sent in some info and got an approval. Please, please, please . . . someone provide some clear way to deal with the DOJ.

- PH (89th day of DROS :45: )

You're basically doing what attorneys advice clients to do. Get a clerk-certified copy of the disposition, the CDOJ dispute form, mail and fax them back and harass them via phone. If you need to pull a rap sheet first, you livescan, and mail in the request for the rap sheet, return the dispute form with your records and wait.

Legally attacking a bureaucracy is difficult, as you generally have to first exhaust all your administrative remedies, get nowhere, and then proceed with legal action. I can tell, just from reading, that probably 95% of the posters here have not exhausted their admin. remedies.

Like it or not, if you try to go to court before doing the above, you're going to waste time and money and get nowhere.

Like I've said before, I walk people through this process all the time. I say "walk", because it's not really fair for me to bill them $200/hour plus travel time and correspondence costs to deal with CalDOJ for them. I could do that, and I'd be driving a nicer car or living in a somewhat bigger house, but I have 'oaklander' disease. ;-)

JDay
01-23-2013, 12:34 AM
Anyone bought a firearm in the last 11-15 days and had it delayed? I did a PPT last week and this thread has me a little worried although my record is clean.

Dantedamean
01-23-2013, 1:35 AM
Anyone bought a firearm in the last 11-15 days and had it delayed? I did a PPT last week and this thread has me a little worried although my record is clean.

I just DROSed a saiga 12, I have been preparing myself for a delay. I'll post back when I find out. I hope it goes through ok.

JDay
01-23-2013, 1:42 AM
I just DROSed a saiga 12 online, I have been preparing myself for a delay. I'll post back when I find out. I hope it goes through ok.

I did a DROS this last Friday, when did you do yours?

PlayHard
01-23-2013, 11:34 AM
You're basically doing what attorneys advice clients to do. Get a clerk-certified copy of the disposition, the CDOJ dispute form, mail and fax them back and harass them via phone. If you need to pull a rap sheet first, you livescan, and mail in the request for the rap sheet, return the dispute form with your records and wait.

Legally attacking a bureaucracy is difficult, as you generally have to first exhaust all your administrative remedies, get nowhere, and then proceed with legal action. I can tell, just from reading, that probably 95% of the posters here have not exhausted their admin. remedies.

Like it or not, if you try to go to court before doing the above, you're going to waste time and money and get nowhere.

Like I've said before, I walk people through this process all the time. I say "walk", because it's not really fair for me to bill them $200/hour plus travel time and correspondence costs to deal with CalDOJ for them. I could do that, and I'd be driving a nicer car or living in a somewhat bigger house, but I have 'oaklander' disease. ;-)

Thank you for weighing in and the advice. As of today, the county clerk is pulling my file from archives. Somehow, my attorney also got the county clerk to agree in faxing a certified copy to the DOJ for me. The clerk states she's done this before and I should expect the DOJ to update records within 3-5 days. My attorney will be bringing me my certified copy, to which I will mail with form 8706. I will wait, yet one more time, and if no change with the DOJ, I will do a Live Scan and file the appropriate paperwork to dispute my record. I am fighting for my legal rights, as a non-prohibited person, to possess and purchase firearms. I have already waited 94 days, so what's a few more weeks (If I have exhausted all methods). Once my DROS is approved, I will let everyone know and which method worked to enable the DROS approval.

Thanks all.

Dantedamean
01-23-2013, 11:39 AM
I did a DROS this last Friday, when did you do yours?

I did it Monday the 21st, I should have waited till Tuesday because I think they were off for the holiday.

On a side note, I don't know why my predictive text put online after the saiga 12, I obviously didn't fill out the DROS paper work online lol

scsurfer
01-23-2013, 4:57 PM
I am going on almost 30 days for one I put in on Dec.28. It's on delay. Put another in on then 14th and it cleared. Don't understand the system.

CoreNobody
01-23-2013, 6:55 PM
I picked up my XD on 1/3/13,no problems.Had already filled out the DROS for a shotgun I ordered,it came in,put the 3rd on it,and waited......went in today-nope in delay.

Judging by what I've read here,I'd say its back logged.
Fantastic.........

JDay
01-24-2013, 9:56 AM
I picked up my XD on 1/3/13,no problems.Had already filled out the DROS for a shotgun I ordered,it came in,put the 3rd on it,and waited......went in today-nope in delay.

Judging by what I've read here,I'd say its back logged.
Fantastic.........

I sure hope that doesn't happen to me. Planning on taking it out Tuesday. One of my friends did pickup a handgun last week, don't think he was delayed.

najay
01-25-2013, 8:28 PM
I dros'd a h&k uspc 40 on 1/10, and picked it up 1/18, no issues, no drama.

diginit
01-25-2013, 9:25 PM
I dros'd a h&k uspc 40 on 1/10, and picked it up 1/18, no issues, no drama.

huh? An 8 day wait? 1/10 to 1/18? wtf?
I had a gun in pawn and did the dros. Got a call saying the DOJ called the pawnbroker instructing him not to release the weapon. wierd... I never had a problem before. I called the DOJ. Seems there is backlog of dros'es. They were only answering calls between 2 and 4 because over 1200 guns were drosed in Dec. So I waited. Got a call from the shop that I could pick up my gun 2 days later. Calm down guys...

JDay
01-25-2013, 10:05 PM
I just hope mine doesn't get delayed. Supposed to pick it up Monday and I want to go to the range Tuesday since I'm free that day. I'm not too worried about it though since my record is almost spotless (couple minor tickets in the past). In any case I think I would have gotten a call by now if there was a holdup.

gigglemonkee
01-28-2013, 2:42 PM
Just spoke to Vicky who is the one handling my case. All she can say is "you can be delayed because of your background or the firearm" "a lawyer does you know good" "it can take a day or 5 years but hopefully not 5 years" and my 2nd amendment rights are suspended until they can clear up whatever it is without telling me, or getting help from anyone. I cannot figure it out at all? Any ideas?

najay
01-28-2013, 2:48 PM
huh? An 8 day wait? 1/10 to 1/18? wtf?
I had a gun in pawn and did the dros. Got a call saying the DOJ called the pawnbroker instructing him not to release the weapon. wierd... I never had a problem before. I called the DOJ. Seems there is backlog of dros'es. They were only answering calls between 2 and 4 because over 1200 guns were drosed in Dec. So I waited. Got a call from the shop that I could pick up my gun 2 days later. Calm down guys...

typo brain fart ... 1/8 to 1/18 (actually 1/7 at closing, so they pushed a day).

sorry about the confusion :p

JoeyJ
01-28-2013, 3:26 PM
Day 29 for me, spoke to BOF today, basically the same story, "if you haven't heard back from your dealer by Feb 11 call us back and you should be able to speak to someone"

JDay
01-28-2013, 4:51 PM
Add me to the delayed list :(

Tried calling them a little while ago but I guess they had just closed. Made me look like a criminal when the guy at the shop had to take my lower away and give me a number to call to find out why it's delayed. He did say it wasn't a denial (no reason it would be, I'm not a prohibited person) and that this seems to be randomly happening to people right now.

Just spoke to Vicky who is the one handling my case. All she can say is "you can be delayed because of your background or the firearm" "a lawyer does you know good" "it can take a day or 5 years but hopefully not 5 years" and my 2nd amendment rights are suspended until they can clear up whatever it is without telling me, or getting help from anyone. I cannot figure it out at all? Any ideas?

Check the first post, there's a link to report delays/denials that DOJ will not give you a reason for.

gigglemonkee
01-28-2013, 7:28 PM
Check the first post, there's a link to report delays/denials that DOJ will not give you a reason for.

Just submitted the form. Glad I don't have to go to work or anything or this could really mess with a career. Apparently only 14 people in the world handles all the hundreds of thousand reviews jn ca

Kixx39
01-29-2013, 1:16 AM
What a crapy feeling! Day 30 not a criminal, not a bad guy, have never had a problem with DROSing a rifle. even did a presonal Firearms check before I started buying guns in 2011 which said you can leagally own,posses,purches firearms. Then my FFL gives me a call your delayed. The worst thing is you cant even get an explanation. You would think if someone is gonna infringe on your 2A they would tell you why. I've called they say 2 day to 2 year waits. This is nuts. Everybody just says wait it out. This isn't right!

Dustyzz
01-29-2013, 7:32 AM
What a crapy feeling! Day 30 not a criminal, not a bad guy, have never had a problem with DROSing a rifle. even did a presonal Firearms check before I started buying guns in 2011 which said you can leagally own,posses,purches firearms. Then my FFL gives me a call your delayed. The worst thing is you cant even get an explanation. You would think if someone is gonna infringe on your 2A they would tell you why. I've called they say 2 day to 2 year waits. This is nuts. Everybody just says wait it out. This isn't right!

I'm in the same boat.... on Day 31 of a delay and the DROS department still won't/can't tell me why I am delayed, nor can they tell me IF they've even looked at my paperwork, nor will they even guesstimate when they MIGHT get to my paperwork... this has to be an abuse of my rights, as I am being denied exercising my 2a rights with absolutely no recourse other than wait and see what happens with absolutely no time limit for for this process to happen... ie. the CA DOJ can indefinitely deny me my 2a rights for as long as they like even if they have no proof of me being a prohibited person, basically the CA DOJ is taking the position that we are presumed guilty until proven innocent. This is wrong.

sl0re10
01-29-2013, 7:43 AM
Somebody in the previous thread said that DOJ is asking for originals of documentation on offenses they've already considered and cleared. Is DOJ mad? Originals are precious. From what I see here on these forums, originals can be impossible to recreate should they be lost, especially for old offenses. They should not be subjected to unnecessary risk of loss through postal error, DOJ error, or any other kind of mishap. Copies should be sufficient. If they want the originals, they should send somebody out to inspect them in person.

Shouldn't really be relevant either. You were either guilty or innocent. They should only need the paper (a copy at that) if they denied someone so they could justify it.

FTW!
01-29-2013, 7:51 AM
On what day of your 10-day wait are you getting the calls from the FFL about being delayed?

sl0re10
01-29-2013, 7:58 AM
If they're actually blocking for arrests w/o convictions I'd like to see that challenged. WTF

JDay
01-29-2013, 8:52 AM
On what day of your 10-day wait are you getting the calls from the FFL about being delayed?

What call? I went to pickup my lower and was told it was delayed. The FFL said they've been so busy they forgot to call.

JDay
01-29-2013, 9:20 AM
All I get when I call DOJ BOF is a recording. Does anyone have a number that gets through? The numbers I have are 916-227-3752 and 916-227-7527.

Eddy's Shooting Sports
01-29-2013, 11:08 AM
This is starting to get bad. I only had a couple delays during the peak a few weeks ago, but now I have three active delays, one denial for a customer I know is gtg, who also has another DROS pending and here's the icing on the cake. Last week I got a "release after denial", before I ever received the denial. The guy I talked to at DOJ told me he had only seen four release after denial in seven years!




Greg David
Eddy's Shooting Sports
400 Moffett Blvd.,Suite F
Mountain View, CA 94043
(660)969-GUNS

T-F 12-7 W 12-9 Sat 11-5
Closed Sun/Mon

cuat_420
01-29-2013, 12:14 PM
Does anyone know if the Live Scan service record review process will display history from states other than California? My delay is due to an arrest in 1995 in Tennessee, and I have all of the court docs, but I don't know if I can submit them through California and have it cleared for the CA DOJ in order to get my gun!

cuat_420
01-29-2013, 1:10 PM
All I get when I call DOJ BOF is a recording. Does anyone have a number that gets through? The numbers I have are 916-227-3752 and 916-227-7527.

Those are the only numbers available. If you are getting the message, then they are all on the phone (what a surprise). I just hang up and immediately call back as soon as I hear the machine...unfortunately it has taken me upwards of 30 minutes to actually get someone to answer! Good Luck!

gigglemonkee
01-29-2013, 2:45 PM
After all my tries and calling everyday to annoy them I get a call today I was cleared and went and got my cz75b. Longest 40 days of my life

Wileybeast
01-29-2013, 4:08 PM
Good for you! I guess the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

JDay
01-29-2013, 4:19 PM
I'm in the same boat.... on Day 31 of a delay and the DROS department still won't/can't tell me why I am delayed, nor can they tell me IF they've even looked at my paperwork, nor will they even guesstimate when they MIGHT get to my paperwork... this has to be an abuse of my rights, as I am being denied exercising my 2a rights with absolutely no recourse other than wait and see what happens with absolutely no time limit for for this process to happen... ie. the CA DOJ can indefinitely deny me my 2a rights for as long as they like even if they have no proof of me being a prohibited person, basically the CA DOJ is taking the position that we are presumed guilty until proven innocent. This is wrong.

See the link in the first post. I will be filling that form out myself in the near future if I cannot get through to DOJ BOF or they don't call me back/give me a reason for my delay. I've been calling them all day and they aren't answering the phone.

JDay
01-29-2013, 4:23 PM
This is starting to get bad. I only had a couple delays during the peak a few weeks ago, but now I have three active delays, one denial for a customer I know is gtg, who also has another DROS pending and here's the icing on the cake. Last week I got a "release after denial", before I ever received the denial. The guy I talked to at DOJ told me he had only seen four release after denial in seven years!

What is really strange is that my girlfriends dad bought a rifle the day after I did my transfer, at the same shop, and he just went and picked his rifle up a few hours ago. The DOJ must be lying about being backlogged.

FTW!
01-29-2013, 5:22 PM
DROS'd a handgun on 1/18/13 from a fellow calgunner and picked up today without a hitch.

cuat_420
01-30-2013, 10:27 AM
What is really strange is that my girlfriends dad bought a rifle the day after I did my transfer, at the same shop, and he just went and picked his rifle up a few hours ago. The DOJ must be lying about being backlogged.

It definitely seems to be hit or miss on what they delay. There are people who are making multiple purchases in the same week, and some get delayed while others don't. It would be great if they would offer some assistance or post a "how to" in the FAQ section of the OAG website.

JDay
01-30-2013, 11:17 AM
Well I finally got through to someone at DOJ. They are claiming that they cannot even look at my file and that it could take 6 weeks or more to get this cleared up.

SilverTauron
01-30-2013, 11:48 AM
What is really strange is that my girlfriends dad bought a rifle the day after I did my transfer, at the same shop, and he just went and picked his rifle up a few hours ago. The DOJ must be lying about being backlogged.

Is there evidence the delays/denials are connected to the model of the weapon being purchased?

Since handguns have to be entered into the DROS system for on-roster compliance, the minions at the DOJ have a way of knowing whether someone buys a handgun or long arm at the time of purchase. It wouldn't be unlikely for Ms Harris to have passed down a directive mandating increased scrutiny/automatic delays or denials for handgun purchases while "clearing" long arm purchases without incident.

JDay
01-30-2013, 12:59 PM
Is there evidence the delays/denials are connected to the model of the weapon being purchased?

Since handguns have to be entered into the DROS system for on-roster compliance, the minions at the DOJ have a way of knowing whether someone buys a handgun or long arm at the time of purchase. It wouldn't be unlikely for Ms Harris to have passed down a directive mandating increased scrutiny/automatic delays or denials for handgun purchases while "clearing" long arm purchases without incident.

I did a transfer of a lower receiver. All the DOJ saw on the DROS form was "Long Gun". They do not know what make/model I purchased. One of my friends and his wife also picked up their new pistols last week with no delay.

dvs762
01-30-2013, 1:05 PM
this denial stuff sucks..in 2008 I was denied..never been arrested mind you..then approved..then 2 weeks after pickup was notified by FFL I was again denied and had to bring gun back to him..then 2 hours later called to say never mind youre ok...he said some type of mess up with my dros number and name...our DOJ is messed up something fierce..

five.five-six
01-30-2013, 8:34 PM
After all my tries and calling everyday to annoy them I get a call today I was cleared and went and got my cz75b. Longest 40 days of my life

You have obviously never had a pregnant wife.

gigglemonkee
01-30-2013, 10:49 PM
You have obviously never had a pregnant wife.

Actually married with 2 kids.

lacmta-rick
01-30-2013, 11:07 PM
The CA DOJ is about as efficient as a hummer,I thank god that I never had to deal with any delays,just recently I dros'd 4 long rifles,sure as heck I would be delayed,but by the grace of some higher power,I wasnt,which really shocked me.

I just wish california would adopt the instant background check,and if that clears,release the weapon on the spot as is the case in some other states.But,we all know that will never happen.To have to wait 10 days,then be told on day 9,sorry there is a delay is complete bull.

I have only 2 weapons left on my list,of course they are on everyones list at this point,so,I highly doubt I will get one anytime soon,I got all i could afford 2 weeks ago,they are home safe and sound,so,I am happy.

ImYourSalt
01-30-2013, 11:14 PM
I had to go through that recently, and it took something like a month and a half from the day I DROS'd my rifle, before I could bring her home.... and that was last summer :O

JoeyJ
01-31-2013, 11:49 AM
Is there evidence the delays/denials are connected to the model of the weapon being purchased?

Since handguns have to be entered into the DROS system for on-roster compliance, the minions at the DOJ have a way of knowing whether someone buys a handgun or long arm at the time of purchase. It wouldn't be unlikely for Ms Harris to have passed down a directive mandating increased scrutiny/automatic delays or denials for handgun purchases while "clearing" long arm purchases without incident.

Mine's just a lowly Ruger SR22, day 32 and counting. I would be more curious about the residence history of those breezing through versus getting delayed. Personally, I've lived in multiple states so I can understand having to receive info from outside of CA. The frustrating aspect of this BG system is that every time you file the check starts all over again. How much does that cost the taxpayers? And in states where I don't even pay local taxes anymore. Wouldn't it make more sense to store the last date cleared and only have to review from that date forward? I purchased my last gun in July 2012 so the only thing that should be an issue is the time since then. Am I missing something?

JDay
01-31-2013, 12:52 PM
I would be more curious about the residence history of those breezing through versus getting delayed.

I've lived in California my entire life.

madsend81
01-31-2013, 1:02 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense to store the last date cleared and only have to review from that date forward?

And that is the reason CA DOJ won't do it. We can't be doing things that make sense around here, can we?

ROAD_DOG
01-31-2013, 7:41 PM
I just purchased a Glock 30 and im supposed to pick up on the 9th im a little worried becaused of my juvenile record when I was 17yrs old back in 2000 I was arrested and charged with a felony. I spent 1 month in juvenile hall and the court had me transferred to the juvenile boot camp 6 month program. After completing the program I was released and after turning 18 I sealed my record so then in 2004 I purchased a shotgun from big5 and 4 days later they called me that I was denied. So then I call the DOJ and they said because I was adjudged a ward of the court when I was juvenile at the age of 17 I was prohibited until the age of 30. So now its been 2 months since my 30th birthday and am anxiously waiting out the 10 days for my Glock 30 but before I made the purchase I called DOJ again just to confirm and they asked for my DL# and asked if I was arrested since I turned 18 I said no I been on my best behavior or if I have any DUI's, drug addictions, suspended license etc, so my answer is no. Then the DOJ agent said im good to reapply for the purchase of a firearm so hopefully everything works our for the best.

JDay
01-31-2013, 10:50 PM
What should I do since I cannot get anyone at DOJ on the phone who has access to my file? There must be someway I can find out what the holdup is.

ROAD_DOG
01-31-2013, 11:05 PM
What should I do since I cannot get anyone at DOJ on the phone who has access to my file? There must be someway I can find out what the holdup is.

When I called to inquire about my eligibility I had the same problem I just kept calling and hanging up on the automated system messages until I got to talk to someone..

JDay
01-31-2013, 11:59 PM
When I called to inquire about my eligibility I had the same problem I just kept calling and hanging up on the automated system messages until I got to talk to someone..

I did talk to someone. The person I talked to said they have no access to the system to see why I was delayed and that "hopefully in a few weeks the analysts will start answering the phones again so call back then". It is real annoying being delayed and not being able to find out why. How long ago did you call and did the person you spoke to give you any answers?

ETA: Nevermind, you haven't been delayed.

ROAD_DOG
02-01-2013, 12:53 AM
I did talk to someone. The person I talked to said they have no access to the system to see why I was delayed and that "hopefully in a few weeks the analysts will start answering the phones again so call back then". It is real annoying being delayed and not being able to find out why. How long ago did you call and did the person you spoke to give you any answers?

ETA: Nevermind, you haven't been delayed.

I'm supposed to pick up my Glock 30 on the 9th so as of today I haven't heard anything so hopefully everything works out...

cuat_420
02-01-2013, 7:57 AM
What should I do since I cannot get anyone at DOJ on the phone who has access to my file? There must be someway I can find out what the holdup is.

It is almost worse to know what the hold up is. I spoke to them on December 12th and the lady who answered was able to tell me it was from an arrest in TN in 1995, and they could not see the disposition. I have since sent them the court docs saying it was dismissed, and early last week I had the courthouse in TN fax a copy directly from their office, and still nothing from CA DOJ. I have now spent hours if not days collecting information and having it sent to them in every way possible, just to get nowhere!

Dantedamean
02-01-2013, 9:29 AM
I picked up my saiga yesterday with no issues. I honestly thought I would be delayed.

I have a past arrest that was expunged/sealed, so I am very surprised after reading some of the stories on here that I had no issues.

I put my social security number down on the DROS form, maybe that helps.

Eddy's Shooting Sports
02-01-2013, 11:34 AM
I picked up my saiga yesterday with no issues. I honestly thought I would be delayed.

I have a past arrest that was expunged/sealed, so I am very surprised after reading some of the stories on here that I had no issues.

I put my social security number down on the DROS form, maybe that helps.

As has been said numerous times in this thread, putting your SSN on the 4473 is useless. It is not used by the DOJ. It just sits in store on that form. There is no SSN field on the DROS system.

The only time SSN is used, is for military personnel in lieu of a CA DL number. This is because the DROS system will not accept the new ten digit military ID numbers.


Greg David
Eddy's Shooting Sports
400 Moffett Blvd.,Suite F
Mountain View, CA 94043
(660)969-GUNS

T-F 12-7 W 12-9 Sat 11-5
Closed Sun/Mon

clbshooter
02-01-2013, 3:43 PM
Are you reading from the very first post? If not please do so as it will help us all in the future. Forget about contacting them on the phone because this does not help, ( just my experience ) go ahead and do #2 to create a record of what is happening to you. Document all conversations you have with them with a name and time, etc,. If you are unsure if you can own a gun there is a form that all FFL's should have that you can fill out without any repercussions if you are denied. If in doubt do this first because it is a felony to try to buy a gun if you are not allowed, I am not saying that this is the case but it will be better in the long run if you have documentation from the DOJ that you are able to purchase a gun. If you have lived in Ca your entire life getting access to you history is easier than if you moved here. There are a lot of military guys and gals that come to Ca., from other areas that will have a harder time getting cleared to buy here, because it takes time to have records send to Ca.DOJ, not saying this is right it's just their BS we all have to jump thru. The most important thing I can tell you is that Brandon Combs wants to document every problem that we have with the Ca. DOJ and he needs all the support we can give him and the rest of the people helping as well. There are a lot of good people thru out Ca. that is going thru this with us and we need to stick together and keep records of all communication that you have with DOJ. Oh and by the way if you are in the military thank you for your service. :oji: :oji:

JoeyJ
02-01-2013, 4:12 PM
And that is the reason CA DOJ won't do it. We can't be doing things that make sense around here, can we?

It would certainly appear to be the case, lol, not sure what I was thinking. Probably just a problem that I can think. Thankfully we aren't taxed on that, YET, lol

Zues
02-01-2013, 8:54 PM
I have been delayed since Jan 4th 2013, and have not been able to get a hold of DOJ for 3 weeks now.

kenbooth77
02-02-2013, 8:48 AM
Well, I DROSed on Jan 16th and was delayed late on my 8th day. This was my first gun purchase so I started to worry and didn't know what to think.. I knew my record was clean so I gave CADOJ a call on the following Monday. Left a message and got a call back a few hours later from a Mike(DOJ rep). He said there was nothing he or I could do to speed up the delay and he couldn't say why I was on delay. He also said, if my FFL doesn't call me with a clear/go ahead in two weeks to give them a call back. So I found this thread and started read the horror stories of 80+ days and really no rhyme or reason for delays. Was going to just not worry for two week and forget about my gun.

On the Jan 31, I got a call from my FFL that I was cleared and I could come pick up my gun. I was very excited to say the least..:D I guess my 10 day hold was more like a 15-16 day:rolleyes:

For those on delay just give them some time. At least we know they are working on SOME.. So it's only a matter of time for your call;)

JDay
02-02-2013, 9:05 AM
I have been delayed since Jan 4th 2013, and have not been able to get a hold of DOJ for 3 weeks now.

Hangup and call right back when you get the recording.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

RED (Y)
02-03-2013, 9:31 PM
Purchased FNP-9 at Reno,NV.NV dealer send it to CA FFL dealer. As soon as gun arrived to my CA dealer i filled all paperwork and it was submitted January 2nd. January 11 got a call from dealer who inform that my application delayed and he can't release the gun to me. Called DOJ right away, (916) 227 3749 (denials and delays #)-got a recorded message that they will start answering the phone on January 14th. Called general DOJ line (916) 227 7527-talked to the lady,she said that she can't look up my application and can answer only "general questions". So since Jan 11 never heard back from anyone, denials and delays line is forwarded to "General Questions" #,and they can't give me any clear info. The worst part it that for last 3-4 days both of # are going to recorded messages and there is no person to talk with. So it's been a moth since i purchased my gun and i still can't get any info on what is going on and why it's delayed. I got a very rare Eastern European name and i put my full SSN on application to make it easy.Never been arrested,no parking tickets,no any reasons why i might have problems with handgun purchase. Very,very confusing.
P.S. Gun dealer keep saying that he can't do anything until DOJ will remove this delay.

JDay
02-04-2013, 10:00 AM
Hangup and call back when you get the recording. Someone will answer eventually. You get the recording when all reps are on the phone.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

JDay
02-04-2013, 10:15 AM
Well I just got through to the main BOF line. The person who answered there is no more helpful than the person I talked to on the general line. She just told me "We are unable to give you a reason why at this time, when we release your firearm your dealer will call you". The person who answered wouldn't even give me their name.

PlayHard
02-04-2013, 11:42 AM
To ALL here in delay . . .

. . . I finally am on the path for a DOJ approval, since October 22, 2012 (105 days). I called the Records and Review Dept, then pressed "0" to get to a live person. I told them my story and I was transferred to a records analyst. After this I was transferred again to a supervisor, who transferred me to the person who delayed my file (I let the phone ring for several minutes until they finally picked up). I explained my case and change of disposition on a 1997 charge. She told me that she has seen the certified copy of the court order, but my file was put away and it needs to be pulled again. And since it had been over 30 days, they needed to do another background check. If nothing new shows within the passed 75 days, I will be approved (besides the 1997 thing, my record is squeaky clean). If I don't hear from her by tomorrow afternoon, call the dealer and go pick up my guns (yes, plural).

This took work and patience and this last conversation led me to believe two important things:

1. If you are in delay, your file is not be looked at and is being filed away until the frenzy dies down. I called them, faxed them and used a form to get my certified court order to them. Even having this information in hand, they are still too busy to get to cases like mine.

If you are in a situation where a court is involved; Have the court fax them, get a certified copy, mail them, and do a Live Scan. Even when your records are updated, this is not enough to get a release.

2. Be a squeaky wheel . . . Call, call, call. Write them, fax them . . . do what ever you can to get YOUR file in front of the person handling your DROS.

By tomorrow afternoon, I will be either approved or denied. Knowing there is NOTHING in my current status to deny my approval and she has the court ordered change in status, in hand, I feel like I made the best headway I've had since October 22, 2012.

PM me if you want more detail in what I did to finally get through to someone who makes the approval/denial decisions. If you are denied, you will at least know what you need to fix to be a non-prohibited person in the state of California.

RED (Y)
02-04-2013, 12:45 PM
That's the problem-for last week i can't even reach a live person.And again-never been in trouble,no court involved.

DanM
02-04-2013, 2:26 PM
DROSed 1-26-13 bolt action rifle, got notified of delay 9th day (2/4/13)

tcrpe
02-04-2013, 2:53 PM
CalGuns Marketplace:


***If you purchase this gun, be sure you can pass a DROS background check. If you pay me for the gun and cannot pass the background check, there will be no refunds. I will not be held responsible for your background.***

JDay
02-04-2013, 3:24 PM
That's the problem-for last week i can't even reach a live person.And again-never been in trouble,no court involved.

Hang up and call right back when you get the message. Usually takes about 3-5 tries to get someone on the phone. However they are just going to tell you that they cannot tell you anything and that your FFL will call when your gun gets released. I'm on day 17 since I started my transfer and still haven't heard a thing. FFL told me they haven't heard anything either.

JDay
02-04-2013, 3:28 PM
This took work and patience and this last conversation led me to believe two important things:

1. If you are in delay, your file is not be looked at and is being filed away until the frenzy dies down. I called them, faxed them and used a form to get my certified court order to them. Even having this information in hand, they are still too busy to get to cases like mine.

If this is true I do not see how it can be legal

2. Be a squeaky wheel . . . Call, call, call. Write them, fax them . . . do what ever you can to get YOUR file in front of the person handling your DROS.

I've been calling them daily and get the same generic response every time. I'm surprised you were able to get an answer out of them.

RED (Y)
02-04-2013, 3:33 PM
After reading this (http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#22G) page
If a handgun purchase transaction is delayed by the DOJ, how does it affect the delivery within 30-days restriction?

The 30-day delivery restriction begins upon notification from the DOJ that the delay has been lifted and that the dealer is authorized to deliver the handgun. The firearms dealer must retain all notifications and correspondence. Does it mean i can get a gun after 30 days of waiting from delay notice?

If this is true I do not see how it can be legal



I've been calling them daily and get the same generic response every time. I'm surprised you were able to get an answer out of them.
Yeah,since last week it's only recording.Is there a secret number to call? :chris:

JDay
02-04-2013, 4:48 PM
After reading
Yeah,since last week it's only recording.Is there a secret number to call? :chris:

Just hangup and call back every time you get the recording. Someone will pick up. They will be of no help though.

RED (Y)
02-04-2013, 4:50 PM
I was calling all day long today-no luck.

JDay
02-04-2013, 5:22 PM
I was calling all day long today-no luck.

Strange, called 3 times and got through. That was around 10am.

916-227-3749

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

RED (Y)
02-04-2013, 5:30 PM
Yep 916-227-3749 and 916 227 7527,no answer. Is there any way to talk to the person who does know what is going on?

JDay
02-04-2013, 5:52 PM
Yep 916-227-3749 and 916 227 7527,no answer. Is there any way to talk to the person who does know what is going on?

Leave a message and hope they call you. Calling them has been useless.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

metasys
02-04-2013, 6:11 PM
Took me 34 calls to get through today around noon, This time the lady actually looked me up by my drivers license number. All she could tell me was I am still delayed, no further information. She told me they are still not taking calls upstairs. I asked if I could come down in person to talk with someone, she said they dont have a counter to help people, has to be done over the phone

FTW!
02-04-2013, 6:42 PM
Picked up a handgun I DROS'd ten days ago today with no problem. This is the second handgun ive picked up in two weeks. (One PPT, one brand new)

There was an older lady who was also picking up and I over heard the salesmen saying she had been delayed. She was shocked to say the least.

1919_4_ME
02-04-2013, 8:25 PM
This is why its so important for this state to go Shall Issue so we can do what AZ does and every person carrying a CCW can just show their CCW at time of purchase and theirs no waiting etc, just show & go. FFL just writes your CCW # and info down on the 4473 and your on your merry way.. Shall issue needs to be the #1 priority right now then #2 working with DOJ to get CCW holders to be able to bypass the NICS check system once they have their issued CCW card. That alone would free up a few bottlenecks on both ends of the spectrum.

If we don't do that its only going to get worse as more and more gun owners get into this scene and bog down the system even more..

JDay
02-05-2013, 8:50 AM
This is why its so important for this state to go Shall Issue so we can do what AZ does and every person carrying a CCW can just show their CCW at time of purchase and theirs no waiting etc, just show & go. FFL just writes your CCW # and info down on the 4473 and your on your merry way.. Shall issue needs to be the #1 priority right now then #2 working with DOJ to get CCW holders to be able to bypass the NICS check system once they have their issued CCW card. That alone would free up a few bottlenecks on both ends of the spectrum.

If we don't do that its only going to get worse as more and more gun owners get into this scene and bog down the system even more..

CA doesn't use NICS and the system is setup purposely in this state to make it as hard as possible to purchase a firearm.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

JDay
02-05-2013, 2:01 PM
To ALL here in delay . . .

. . . I finally am on the path for a DOJ approval, since October 22, 2012 (105 days). I called the Records and Review Dept, then pressed "0" to get to a live person. I told them my story and I was transferred to a records analyst. After this I was transferred again to a supervisor, who transferred me to the person who delayed my file (I let the phone ring for several minutes until they finally picked up). I explained my case and change of disposition on a 1997 charge. She told me that she has seen the certified copy of the court order, but my file was put away and it needs to be pulled again. And since it had been over 30 days, they needed to do another background check. If nothing new shows within the passed 75 days, I will be approved (besides the 1997 thing, my record is squeaky clean). If I don't hear from her by tomorrow afternoon, call the dealer and go pick up my guns (yes, plural).

This took work and patience and this last conversation led me to believe two important things:

1. If you are in delay, your file is not be looked at and is being filed away until the frenzy dies down. I called them, faxed them and used a form to get my certified court order to them. Even having this information in hand, they are still too busy to get to cases like mine.

If you are in a situation where a court is involved; Have the court fax them, get a certified copy, mail them, and do a Live Scan. Even when your records are updated, this is not enough to get a release.

2. Be a squeaky wheel . . . Call, call, call. Write them, fax them . . . do what ever you can to get YOUR file in front of the person handling your DROS.

By tomorrow afternoon, I will be either approved or denied. Knowing there is NOTHING in my current status to deny my approval and she has the court ordered change in status, in hand, I feel like I made the best headway I've had since October 22, 2012.

PM me if you want more detail in what I did to finally get through to someone who makes the approval/denial decisions. If you are denied, you will at least know what you need to fix to be a non-prohibited person in the state of California.

Find out anything or was DOJ just giving you the run around?

PlayHard
02-05-2013, 9:02 PM
Picked up my handgun and rifle today. To those that PM'd me, I have replied . . . Good luck.

eman_308
02-06-2013, 1:50 PM
mine is delayed also, even though i have purchased in the past without issues. Report all delays to CGF and i suggest you report it to the NRA. here's the link: https://www.nraila.org/secure/contact-us.aspx

lehn20
02-06-2013, 2:45 PM
Does the letters state the firearm might be stolen or other wise?

Or simple it is delayed.