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View Full Version : Ca. DOJ Delay notice WTH?


clbshooter
12-11-2012, 12:08 PM
Was in the process of DROS'ing my 5th gun since moving to Ca., about 3 years ago, and got a call from the dealer about this. I have tried to research this but I just don't understand what is going on. I have called them but they said the person handling this is on vacation until some time in Jan.,. Has anyone been thru this? I bought and sold many guns ( I am 62 yrs old) in Va. before moving here, and some here as well, but this has me stumped. Just to be clear I have never been guilty of anything more than a speeding ticket and the last one I got was about 10 years ago, and yes I just filled out the form for delay issues here. Any help would be appreciated. thanks

hornswaggled
12-11-2012, 12:58 PM
Do you have a common name that a felon might share?

clbshooter
12-11-2012, 3:33 PM
I thought about this but they have my SSN and my drivers license number and this is the 5th purchase in about 2.5 years. I have not heard back from them, just trying to figure out if this is final or after so amount specific amount of time it will automatically go thru if they can't prove that I am the one they found a problem with. thanks

tcrpe
12-11-2012, 3:36 PM
Was in the process of DROS'ing my 5th gun since moving to Ca., about 3 years ago, and got a call from the dealer about this. I have tried to research this but I just don't understand what is going on. I have called them but they said the person handling this is on vacation until some time in Jan.,. Has anyone been thru this? I bought and sold many guns ( I am 62 yrs old) in Va. before moving here, and some here as well, but this has me stumped. Just to be clear I have never been guilty of anything more than a speeding ticket and the last one I got was about 10 years ago, and yes I just filled out the form for delay issues here. Any help would be appreciated. thanks

I know someone who was denied over an unpaid parking ticket. Welcome to California.:facepalm:

taperxz
12-11-2012, 4:05 PM
Is this your second "new handgun purchase" in the last 30 days??? That may also trigger a delay.

clbshooter
12-11-2012, 4:29 PM
No this is a 10-22 takedown that I lusted over for a while. I have bought 2 handguns before but NONE of my purchases have been anywhere close to being with in the 30 day time frame. And I don't have any outstanding tickets parking or otherwise.

Manolito
12-11-2012, 4:52 PM
Call and ask for a face to face. What are they going to do put a hold on a future purchase.

nhanson
12-11-2012, 6:48 PM
Ms. Harris has had her folks going into arrest records from the 70's and 80's and delayed many of our customers due to "false" arrest with no procescution. Many of these were out of state so detail dispositions were not available to CA DOJ. Did you ever have an arrest with no prosecution? If so, that is what she is leveraging to interfere with your firearms purchase. You may want to retain an attorney or contact CGF. I thought CGF was looking into this activity.....Good Luck!

HowardW56
12-11-2012, 7:18 PM
Ms. Harris has had her folks going into arrest records from the 70's and 80's and delayed many of our customers due to "false" arrest with no procescution. Many of these were out of state so detail dispositions were not available to CA DOJ. Did you ever have an arrest with no prosecution? If so, that is what she is leveraging to interfere with your firearms purchase. You may want to retain an attorney or contact CGF. I thought CGF was looking into this activity.....Good Luck!

CGF is....

wjc
12-11-2012, 8:15 PM
Ms. Harris has had her folks going into arrest records from the 70's and 80's and delayed many of our customers due to "false" arrest with no procescution. Many of these were out of state so detail dispositions were not available to CA DOJ. Did you ever have an arrest with no prosecution? If so, that is what she is leveraging to interfere with your firearms purchase. You may want to retain an attorney or contact CGF. I thought CGF was looking into this activity.....Good Luck!

CGF is....

"I hear that train a comin'...it's comin' round the bend."

:43:

clbshooter
12-11-2012, 9:49 PM
Manolito, they have not called me back....so I do not know. nhanson, now that you bring this up ,there was a bogus charge in 1973 that was dropped.There was never a problem with purchasing (and selling) many guns while living on the east coast. I was also called to jury duty for the last 40 or so years while there (as well as in Ca., which is my honor to do), as well as voting in every election except one. Please forgive me for not being able to put this in proper paragraphs as I have not had a lot of computer training. Most of the people on this forum do not know me from Adam but what I can tell you is that before the bogus charge I was a LEO on the MPDC and left there (in 1972) to go back to school to get a degree. While my life has not been a bed of roses I can and will tell everyone that I have never committed a crime and never will and have always gone to the help of someone in need. Thanks for listening to a man who has always been on the side of what is right and just. Oh, I almost forgot, I do have documentation from the police dept. ( the investigating officer as a matter of fact ) as to what really happened. If I was a person of means I would take this and shove it so far up the *** of Ca. that they would understand that they can't mess with people who support justice and do not commit crimes. thanks for listening to my rantings.

mrdd
12-11-2012, 10:02 PM
Call the DOJ tomorrow and insist on speaking to a supervisor. Don't take any B.S. that someone is on vacation. It is a bureaucracy, a case can always be investigated and handled by someone else.

You can also report your problem to the Calguns Foundation at http://calgunsfoundation.org/get-help/report-ca-doj.html

But, I would still call the DOJ again tomorrow. They have gotten more stringent about the background checks beginning around March of 2012.

clbshooter
12-11-2012, 10:25 PM
To mrdd, I have been calling them since friday with no return calls. I also e-mailed as well as left voice messages but to no avail. You and I think that a case should be handed off to another person/agent if someone goes on vacation (especially for 3 weeks or so) but the only person that I was able to talk to sounded to me like I was crazy for asking the same question as you. I understand being more stringent but correct me if I am wrong don't you have to be a convicted felon to loose your rights?

tcrpe
12-11-2012, 10:48 PM
To mrdd, I have been calling them since friday with no return calls. I also e-mailed as well as left voice messages but to no avail. You and I think that a case should be handed off to another person/agent if someone goes on vacation (especially for 3 weeks or so) but the only person that I was able to talk to sounded to me like I was crazy for asking the same question as you.

Welcome to California bureaucracy! :facepalm:

SilverTauron
12-12-2012, 8:14 AM
Lemme get this straight;the OP is being delayed at point of sale because of an unfounded arrest during the NIXON ADMINISTRATION?

tuolumnejim
12-12-2012, 8:28 AM
To mrdd, I have been calling them since friday with no return calls. I also e-mailed as well as left voice messages but to no avail. You and I think that a case should be handed off to another person/agent if someone goes on vacation (especially for 3 weeks or so) but the only person that I was able to talk to sounded to me like I was crazy for asking the same question as you. I understand being more stringent but correct me if I am wrong don't you have to be a convicted felon to loose your rights?

No all you need to do is be here in the PRK.

On a second thought, I've been seeing these "I'm delayed" threads popping up quite often. Is this just "under the radar" harassment to keep people from purchasing legal products?

Mitch
12-12-2012, 8:56 AM
Ms. Harris has had her folks going into arrest records from the 70's and 80's and delayed many of our customers due to "false" arrest with no procescution.

Is this documented anywhere? It's clearly a denial of due process and I think there are many California journalists who would be interested in this story, if there is any proof.

HowardW56
12-12-2012, 9:03 AM
No all you need to do is be here in the PRK.

On a second thought, I've been seeing these "I'm delayed" threads popping up quite often. Is this just "under the radar" harassment to keep people from purchasing legal products?


There has definately been a change at DOJ, any excuse to delay appears to be their SOP now....

SilverTauron
12-12-2012, 9:12 AM
Is this documented anywhere? It's clearly a denial of due process and I think there are many California journalists who would be interested in this story, if there is any proof.


Given the media's anti-gun bias, their interest wouldn't be helpful for us at all. We don't need Channel 2 giving Ms Harris a public "attaboy" for sticking it to lawful gun owners.

Mitch
12-12-2012, 9:13 AM
Given the media's anti-gun bias, their interest wouldn't be helpful for us at all. We don't need Channel 2 giving Ms Harris a public "attaboy" for sticking it to lawful gun owners.

Well, I'm not sure how many positive firearms related articles you are responsible for, but I have at least two under my belt.

You never accomplish anything without trying.

PolishMike
12-12-2012, 9:30 AM
Do you have a common name that a felon might share?

Doesn't matter. DROS is ran by DL number.

I thought about this but they have my SSN and my drivers license number and this is the 5th purchase in about 2.5 years. I have not heard back from them, just trying to figure out if this is final or after so amount specific amount of time it will automatically go thru if they can't prove that I am the one they found a problem with. thanks

SSN goes no where. No one sees it. That doesn't mater.

I know someone who was denied over an unpaid parking ticket. Welcome to California.:facepalm:

You will only be denied due to that under a "DMV Reject". This only applies if you did not take care of the ticket and your license is suspended or revoked.

Is this your second "new handgun purchase" in the last 30 days??? That may also trigger a delay.

This would trigger a denial, not a delay.

Guys - Please stop commenting on stuff if you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't go on aircraft forums and tell people how to repair 747's.


OP - Just to be clear, the store told you it was a DOJ delay? The "on vacation until January" thing does not make sense. There are multiple people at DOJ handling delay/denials. Are you sure it wasn't the person at the store that is gone?

In the Spring the DOJ changed the way they looked at some cases. Send your info here - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/get-help/report-ca-doj.html and be patient. It may take a month or two to figure this out.

HappyCamper781
12-12-2012, 12:31 PM
I'm a victim of the DMV reject over a not having insurance ticket, for not have my insurance card on me at the scene of a car accident (car was mangled). Was fighting the ticket since insurance was valid at the time of the accident and paid off, but since I don't want to pay for storage at the FFL's, I decided to just pay the ticket and get it out of the way so I could complete the purchase. :(

mrdd
12-12-2012, 12:39 PM
Traffic tickets should not be grounds for DROS denial. That is B.S.

PolishMike
12-12-2012, 2:57 PM
Traffic tickets should not be grounds for DROS denial. That is B.S.


Again, they AREN'T. If you have a suspended or revoked license it is not a valid form of ID therefore it gets rejected on DMV grounds. Same thing as someone trying to buy a gun without any ID.

If the same person was to go to the DMV and get a CA ID card and DROS a gun they would be fine.

mrdd
12-12-2012, 5:07 PM
Again, they AREN'T. If you have a suspended or revoked license it is not a valid form of ID therefore it gets rejected on DMV grounds. Same thing as someone trying to buy a gun without any ID.

If the same person was to go to the DMV and get a CA ID card and DROS a gun they would be fine.

But that is crazy also. Since the DMV issues the I.D. cards, a suspended license should still be a valid form of I.D. Or, if they physically take your license, they should just issue you an I.D. card.

This is just another B.S. way the state screws with people.

clbshooter
12-12-2012, 6:01 PM
My DMV record is current and clear and all insurance is paid, so no problem here. Polish Mike, I still have the voice message on my phone from the gun dealer stating DOJ placed a delay on the purchase and yes it was a lady at DOJ that told me that the person handling my case was on vacation and not back until some time in Jan. The guy at the dealer IS NOT on vacation. I filled out the DOJ firearms issue report on this site Monday so yes this was done. This doesn't seem fair that they can deny anyone as long as they are legal to own a gun. Does anyone know if there is a time limit that the DOJ can "delay" purchase before they have to let the purchase go thru? It has now been 4 business days since it started and they will not call or e-mail me back to explain what they are doing. I will continue calling them tomorrow and will keep everyone informed. thanks for all the help.

HappyCamper781
12-12-2012, 6:21 PM
You're basically at the mercy of the DOJ. The delay means they are unsure you can be cleared to purchase and need more time to perform a thorough investigation, from what I asked the local FFL/Turner's Outdoorsman manager.

HappyCamper781
12-12-2012, 6:24 PM
DOJ FAQ:
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#23G

How are dealers notified regarding DROS denials and delays?

If the DOJ determines that a purchaser is ineligible to possess a firearm, the DOJ will deny the sale. The dealer will be notified via telephone not to deliver the firearm. A confirming letter will be sent via the U.S. Mail, and a message via the PSD (for dealers who have a PSD).

When the DOJ is not able to immediately determine a purchaser's eligibility to possess firearms, the dealer is notified as above to delay delivery of the firearm. Once a determination is made, the dealer will be notified as above to cancel the sale or to deliver the firearm.

(PC section 12076(d))

Back To Top
Is there a maximum time frame after submission of the DROS information during which a firearms dealer may release a firearm?

Yes. If a firearm purchaser does not take physical possession of the firearm within 30 days of submission of the DROS information, the dealer must cancel the sale and, if the firearm was a handgun, send the DOJ a cancellation form for that transaction. If the purchaser still wants to take possession of the firearm, the entire DROS process must be completed including payment of DROS fees.

(PC section 12071(b))

The delay should in theory last less than the 30 day maximum.

My DMV Deny required that I go back and restart DROS, but that's not what you're going through, expect a notification "after the DOJ agent gets back from vacation".

PolishMike
12-12-2012, 6:32 PM
But that is crazy also. Since the DMV issues the I.D. cards, a suspended license should still be a valid form of I.D. Or, if they physically take your license, they should just issue you an I.D. card.

This is just another B.S. way the state screws with people.

A suspended license isn't a valid form of ID. The first step the DOJ does is confirm that the id/cdl is real and valid. They then do the background check.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

HappyCamper781
12-12-2012, 6:44 PM
Yes but the license remains suspended even though I had a court date. Oh well. Pay the ticket off, admit guilt, redo DROS, collect firearm after 10 days was easier in my case.

All the OP can do is wait. Which I know from experience is frustrating. (Turner's/FFL would not tell me what was wrong, I had to call DOJ)

HowardW56
12-12-2012, 6:52 PM
Yes but the license remains suspended even though I had a court date. Oh well. Pay the ticket off, admit guilt, redo DROS, collect firearm after 10 days was easier in my case.

All the OP can do is wait. Which I know from experience is frustrating. (Turner's/FFL would not tell me what was wrong, I had to call DOJ)

Turners (FFL) can't tell you what is wrong, DOJ doesn't share that information. All that the FFL knows is either delay or denial, and not to deliver the gun, or in the case of a denial to cancel the transaction completely.

mrdd
12-12-2012, 6:56 PM
My DMV record is current and clear and all insurance is paid, so no problem here. Polish Mike, I still have the voice message on my phone from the gun dealer stating DOJ placed a delay on the purchase and yes it was a lady at DOJ that told me that the person handling my case was on vacation and not back until some time in Jan. The guy at the dealer IS NOT on vacation. I filled out the DOJ firearms issue report on this site Monday so yes this was done. This doesn't seem fair that they can deny anyone as long as they are legal to own a gun. Does anyone know if there is a time limit that the DOJ can "delay" purchase before they have to let the purchase go thru? It has now been 4 business days since it started and they will not call or e-mail me back to explain what they are doing. I will continue calling them tomorrow and will keep everyone informed. thanks for all the help.

Call tomorrow and insist on speaking with the immediate supervisor of the "person on vacation". If that does not give you satisfaction, just keep walking up the org chart. Make it clear that waiting until January is not acceptable to you.

The problem is that things have changed inside the background investigation machinery at the DOJ and someone there has reason to believe that you may be prohibited. I am not saying you are, but they are not certain you are good to go.

They can delay indefinitely, and it will not go through until they are satisfied. That is why you must get somebody there with authority who can tell you what the specific issue is with your background. Then, you can get whatever documentation they need to resolve the problem, and complete the DROS.

anthonyca
12-12-2012, 7:04 PM
Manolito, they have not called me back....so I do not know. nhanson, now that you bring this up ,there was a bogus charge in 1973 that was dropped.There was never a problem with purchasing (and selling) many guns while living on the east coast. I was also called to jury duty for the last 40 or so years while there (as well as in Ca., which is my honor to do), as well as voting in every election except one. Please forgive me for not being able to put this in proper paragraphs as I have not had a lot of computer training. Most of the people on this forum do not know me from Adam but what I can tell you is that before the bogus charge I was a LEO on the MPDC and left there (in 1972) to go back to school to get a degree. While my life has not been a bed of roses I can and will tell everyone that I have never committed a crime and never will and have always gone to the help of someone in need. Thanks for listening to a man who has always been on the side of what is right and just. Oh, I almost forgot, I do have documentation from the police dept. ( the investigating officer as a matter of fact ) as to what really happened. If I was a person of means I would take this and shove it so far up the *** of Ca. that they would understand that they can't mess with people who support justice and do not commit crimes. thanks for listening to my rantings.

We are not judging you. Many people here have been in your shoes. Please keep us updated.

nhanson
12-12-2012, 7:39 PM
Manolito, they have not called me back....so I do not know. nhanson, now that you bring this up ,there was a bogus charge in 1973 that was dropped.There was never a problem with purchasing (and selling) many guns while living on the east coast. I was also called to jury duty for the last 40 or so years while there (as well as in Ca., which is my honor to do), as well as voting in every election except one. Please forgive me for not being able to put this in proper paragraphs as I have not had a lot of computer training. Most of the people on this forum do not know me from Adam but what I can tell you is that before the bogus charge I was a LEO on the MPDC and left there (in 1972) to go back to school to get a degree. While my life has not been a bed of roses I can and will tell everyone that I have never committed a crime and never will and have always gone to the help of someone in need. Thanks for listening to a man who has always been on the side of what is right and just. Oh, I almost forgot, I do have documentation from the police dept. ( the investigating officer as a matter of fact ) as to what really happened. If I was a person of means I would take this and shove it so far up the *** of Ca. that they would understand that they can't mess with people who support justice and do not commit crimes. thanks for listening to my rantings.

This is how Ms Harris is attacking gun owners.....one at a time! Interfering with non-sense dredged up form some ephemeral info. Some of our folks just walked away, some fought. One in particular individual spent 3+ months screwing with them to get through and pick up his handgun. He came back 3 weeks later and purchased another that sailed right through! Intimidation is the tactic so, don't let them intimidate you.....get an attorney or contact CGF........Good Luck!

Paul S
12-12-2012, 8:52 PM
This is how Ms Harris is attacking gun owners.....one at a time! Interfering with non-sense dredged up form some ephemeral info. Some of our folks just walked away, some fought. One in particular individual spent 3+ months screwing with them to get through and pick up his handgun. He came back 3 weeks later and purchased another that sailed right through! Intimidation is the tactic so, don't let them intimidate you.....get an attorney or contact CGF........Good Luck!

QFT

Anchors
12-12-2012, 11:13 PM
Doesn't matter. DROS is ran by DL number.



SSN goes no where. No one sees it. That doesn't mater.



You will only be denied due to that under a "DMV Reject". This only applies if you did not take care of the ticket and your license is suspended or revoked.



This would trigger a denial, not a delay.

Guys - Please stop commenting on stuff if you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't go on aircraft forums and tell people how to repair 747's.


OP - Just to be clear, the store told you it was a DOJ delay? The "on vacation until January" thing does not make sense. There are multiple people at DOJ handling delay/denials. Are you sure it wasn't the person at the store that is gone?

In the Spring the DOJ changed the way they looked at some cases. Send your info here - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/get-help/report-ca-doj.html and be patient. It may take a month or two to figure this out.

PolishMike is 100% correct.
Things such as "DMV Reject, invalid ID/DL", "One in 30", etc all show up as such to the dealer when reviewing bulletins in the DROS system.
The dealer would not see a DMV reject/30 day violation as a "Delay" where the eligibility of the purchaser has not yet been established or a "Denial - Prohibited Person".
The dealer won't know specifics, but will know which general type of issue prevented the DROS from passing.

Anchors
12-12-2012, 11:48 PM
Again, they AREN'T. If you have a suspended or revoked license it is not a valid form of ID therefore it gets rejected on DMV grounds. Same thing as someone trying to buy a gun without any ID.

If the same person was to go to the DMV and get a CA ID card and DROS a gun they would be fine.

This is why I have a CA DL AND CA ID.
I haven't gotten a ticket in years and I don't drink, but you never know why your license may become invalid. Could be as simple as forgetting to renew.

My ID and license expire in different years, as well.

I have always just used to ID to run DROS...

stitchnicklas
12-12-2012, 11:54 PM
also.

if the gunshop screwed up and entered a number wrong ...anywhere..... that would cause a dros slip-up,or a model entered as a serial number would cause a automatic redflag as many guns are reported stolen and the model number entered in place of serial number.happened to me in 2009..

clbshooter
12-13-2012, 4:22 PM
This will not end soon or without a fight. Started calling again this AM and got a totally different recorded message saying that due to the vast amount of calls that they will only take DROS calls and questions between like 1PM and 4PM then left a different number to call SO I CALLED and left a message. Well someone called back but they were not able to access my "delay notice", she was very nice but no information on my case. They keep saying that it doesn't matter if someone is on vacation or not someone is handling the matter (this is not what the first lady told me last Monday)and I asked if the new person could please call me and tell me what the problem is, maybe I could help them, but this will never happen. As a STATE EMPLOYEE shouldn't they call a TAX PAYING CITIZEN and inform them what is going on/I have been around a long time and seen things most people haven't some I have let go and some I have not but this is a matter of rights for ALL Californians even thou I have only been here 3 years THIS IS NOW MY FIGHT and I ask you all to join in to protect the rights of our children and our grandchildren (I came here to be close to my daughter and family), after all that is the reason I moved 3 years ago. If you have any questions I kindly ask that you read all my entries before you ask. thanks and as Red used to say may god bless. Stitch the shop in question is Turner's in kearney Mesa and I can tell you without a doubt that they did not make a mistake. This is my 5th purchase thru them and I have been in contact with the Mgr there and several of the sales staff and they are the greatest, as a matter of fact I would go out of my way to use their services again, and believe me I will when this is put to bed.

Mitch
12-13-2012, 4:25 PM
Have you checked out this thread? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=656150

clbshooter
12-13-2012, 5:01 PM
Hi Mitch, thanks for bringing this to my attention and no I have not seen this before. If you look at the dates my 1st post is a few days before this one. I am aware of Brandon and the fine work that this organization does and will continue due in the future. On the link you sent DrDarrin asks something about a 10 day period, before coming to Ca., I lived in Va.,. If I remember correctly they (Federal Authority) had 5 days to respond to the FFL dealer with an answer or the dealer could proceed. I grew up in No. Va. and I probably bought and sold at least 100 or so guns before moving here in 2009 without any problems what so ever. I feel compelled to say that if you are a convicted felon then you have lost all rights to own and bear arms. However sometimes people are mistakenly charged or thought to be someone else and this gives the state the authority to try to deny them their rights. We all need to fight for these rights togeather.

dantodd
12-13-2012, 6:18 PM
Hi Mitch, thanks for bringing this to my attention and no I have not seen this before. If you look at the dates my 1st post is a few days before this one. I am aware of Brandon and the fine work that this organization does and will continue due in the future. On the link you sent DrDarrin asks something about a 10 day period, before coming to Ca., I lived in Va.,. If I remember correctly they (Federal Authority) had 5 days to respond to the FFL dealer with an answer or the dealer could proceed. I grew up in No. Va. and I probably bought and sold at least 100 or so guns before moving here in 2009 without any problems what so ever. I feel compelled to say that if you are a convicted felon then you have lost all rights to own and bear arms. However sometimes people are mistakenly charged or thought to be someone else and this gives the state the authority to try to deny them their rights. We all need to fight for these rights togeather.

CA DOJ does their own background check and APPEAR to be delaying any transaction for an arrest that does not have its disposition specifically in the databases they use. They will send a request to the controlling court asking for the disposition, if none is available (e.g. Records too old,) they appear to be denying.

In the past transactions were approved unless there was a disqualifying event in the database, now they are holding up for any event that "might" be disqualifying.

Welcome to CA under AG Harris.

I remember when she was elected many people thought it couldn't be worse than under Jerry Brown. Now they know that it can be.

JDay
01-28-2013, 6:23 PM
A suspended license isn't a valid form of ID. The first step the DOJ does is confirm that the id/cdl is real and valid. They then do the background check.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Both your CDL and California ID have the same number on them. If you have both and your license is suspended your valid ID will still come up when they run your CDL number. I.E. that excuse is BS!