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gregorio
12-10-2012, 3:28 PM
Both my father and wife's father have substantial gun collections that after 1/1/2014 will need to be registered upon transfer to their heirs. Aside from transferring before then, would placing them in a Trust or transferring to a corporation avoid the registration and fees? Would this be like an NFA trust?

NotEnufGarage
12-10-2012, 3:43 PM
Whether they need to be transferred to heirs will depend on the laws that are in effect in the states that the heirs live in at the time of your fathers and your wifes father passing. Since you don't say how old they are or what their health situation is, there's no way to know or even guess as to what laws might be in effect when they pass.

Regardless, since a corporation in CA pays a minimum of $800 per year in franchise taxes, and the voluntary registration form costs $19 to file, I can't see how a corporation would be a wise choice.

gregorio
12-10-2012, 4:59 PM
They are both in upper 70's but I don't think they will be beating the 1/1/2014 California deadline :) All the heirs are also in California so I am thinking about the law as we know it will be here in 2014. I do know that all their property is already held in a "second to die" trust, meaning that the entire estate will pass to heirs when the second partner dies. I am not sure how it will work WRT firearms since they were purchased by the men and assuming they go first, will handguns need to be re-registered to the wives? If the men were to die first but after 2013, I am guessing that the long guns will follow the same process as handguns, whatever that may be.

That's a good point on the California corporate tax. That puts it off the table.

With close to 150 long guns between them, there is a lot to think about. Does anyone know a good attorney that can advise?

Capybara
12-10-2012, 6:37 PM
Not sure about the whole collections but couldn't the owners of the C&R long guns just sell them to the heirs today for a dollar? Can a family member just cash and carry C&Rs today to a family member as they would a stranger or does there have to be an inter-family transfer? I don't know.

If I owned any C&R long guns that I wanted my heirs to have in this state, I would get them into their hands before January 1, 2014. Why does the government have to be in on it? The handguns and the non-C&Rs, the answer is obvious, gotta do the transfers.

gregorio
12-11-2012, 10:08 AM
You are right about the CR guns before 2014 but that exemption goes away then. Short of doing all the transfers BEFORE 2014, it does not look like there is anyway around it. Even if we did the transfers now and did not physically take possession until death, we would be breaking the law.

Still trying to find an answer on what impact a trust would have.

eighteenninetytwo
12-11-2012, 10:58 AM
Interesting point. So here's a question. Can I sell my C and R rifles to my son in 2013 even though he's not 21 yet to avoid a future registration.

Librarian
12-11-2012, 11:02 AM
Interesting point. So here's a question. Can I sell my C and R rifles to my son in 2013 even though he's not 21 yet to avoid a future registration.

Intrafamilial transfer of long guns has no age requirement until 2014, and no paper.

See the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members

mrrsquared79
12-20-2012, 2:58 PM
What is the bill number that forces the long gun registration in January 2014??

Nevermind found it AB 809(Feuer)

elhefe50ss
12-20-2012, 3:02 PM
BS101 LOLOLOL

glocksmith
12-20-2012, 3:05 PM
BS101 LOLOLOL

Indeed.

It should be throw out of court before 2014 just like AB962 was.

tiki
12-20-2012, 3:29 PM
Regardless, since a corporation in CA pays a minimum of $800 per year in franchise taxes, and the voluntary registration form costs $19 to file, I can't see how a corporation would be a wise choice.

Let's hypotheticaly say that an assault weapon ban becomes a reality. If you have a corporation and you transfer them into the corporation before the ban, then they are owned by the corporation.

Let's say the ban on assault weapons is like the California ban where you can't transfer them when you die. Since a corporation could live forever, you could then transfer them by making your heirs officers of the corporation, right?

California, from my understanding, did not let corporations register assault weapons, but, that was before SCOTUS decided that a corporations is a person.

Your thoughts?

Flyliner
12-20-2012, 3:52 PM
Intrafamilial transfer of long guns has no age requirement until 2014, and no paper.


How can the parent legally prove they transferred a rifle to a child of age too young to articulate ownership (say 4yrs old) while the parent is still alive?

capo
12-27-2012, 7:54 AM
How can the parent legally prove they transferred a rifle to a child of age too young to articulate ownership (say 4yrs old) while the parent is still alive?

I've got the same question here, my daughter is six years old right now and I don't want her to get boned if bans start coming. Besides, I bought her a pink .22 for her 1st birthday........I can pretty much prove that one isn't mine, lol, but it's the AR's I am worried about.

Haplo
12-27-2012, 11:00 AM
If your firearms are owned by your trust, I believe that is the last transfer you'll ever need to do when you can add family members as beneficiaries.

Santa Cruz Arms
12-27-2012, 11:27 AM
How can the parent legally prove they transferred a rifle to a child of age too young to articulate ownership (say 4yrs old) while the parent is still alive?

Write up a letter stating that x number of long guns, with serial numbers xxxxxx are being transferred to "Child's name". Take it to a notary and get it notarized prior to 1/1/2014. Store document someplace safe.

I realize it is not "required" to do this, but it's worth it to me to pay $10 for the notarized document to have actual proof this was done prior to 2014. In fact I would get two notarized copies and keep one in a safety deposit box and one with an out of state relative, etc.

Or get the hell out of this state before 2014.. which is what we have decided to do. For many reasons, not only our insane gun laws. Free state here we come.

MossbergMan
12-27-2012, 11:36 AM
Since this long gun registration is a CA. law, would storing the guns to be transferred out of this Commie state an option?
I like the Trust idea. We have a family trust and I'll call our attorney and see what the dang deal is with this.
I'm really counting the months until we are free of this state....32,31 in January 2013

dullfig
12-27-2012, 11:47 AM
I think instead of figuring out creative ideas on how to live with this law, maybe we should challenge it in court?

sreiter
12-27-2012, 11:52 AM
Let's hypotheticaly say that an assault weapon ban becomes a reality. If you have a corporation and you transfer them into the corporation before the ban, then they are owned by the corporation.

Let's say the ban on assault weapons is like the California ban where you can't transfer them when you die. Since a corporation could live forever, you could then transfer them by making your heirs officers of the corporation, right?

California, from my understanding, did not let corporations register assault weapons, but, that was before SCOTUS decided that a corporations is a person.

Your thoughts?

Very interesting idea.

I dont see how Cali could have stopped Corps from registering AW's. If you owned a armed guard/armored car company, the AR's the guards carry would be company property.

psubond
12-27-2012, 12:52 PM
who's going to be able to prove they didn't give them to you as a gift before they pass away and before the deadline?

tiki
12-27-2012, 3:02 PM
Very interesting idea.

I dont see how Cali could have stopped Corps from registering AW's. If you owned a armed guard/armored car company, the AR's the guards carry would be company property.

I know a person who was not allowed to register an assault weapon to his corporation. Not a guard or armored car company.