PDA

View Full Version : CCW Question/Life Threatened


Sig357
08-06-2007, 6:19 PM
I live in Riverside County City of Indio. I managed to get myself involved in my sister in laws troubles with her violent boyfriend. (Domestic Violence) He is hooked on Methamphetamine and hangs around meth friends.

This punk has threatened my life, so I am currently thinking about carrying concealed without a permit. I'd rather take my chances with LEO than to be caught without one if this idiot decides to come after me. I know it's difficult to say, but what kind of chances do I have on obtaining a CCW permit?

Jicko
08-06-2007, 6:28 PM
#%@#%@#$

Exercise your 5th amendment!!

Or at least say.... "a friend of mine...."


I know it's difficult to say, but what kind of chances do I have on obtaining a CCW permit?

Never!! Carrying concealed without a permit is a FELONY. You may never be able to own ANY guns!

Sig357
08-06-2007, 6:30 PM
Don't be so paranoid Jicko. I don't here any Leo's at my door. If I'm dead I will not be able to do anything...EVER!!! Can someone please help me with this instead of bashing?

Jicko
08-06-2007, 6:32 PM
This punk has threatened my life, so I am currently carrying concealed without a permit. I'd rather take my chances with LEO than to be caught without one if this idiot decides to come after me. I know it's difficult to say, but what kind of chances do I have on obtaining a CCW permit?

OK, if someone threaten your life, go to the cops, file a restraining order.... if he KEEPS coming.... then you have a much better chance in getting a CCW...

Currently.... NONE....

Josh3239
08-06-2007, 6:33 PM
According to CaliforniaCCW.org, in Riverside being actively stalked with fear for your life or violence is good enough cause to be granted a CCW. You be able to prove that you are in fear of your life or violence. I have little knowledge about filling out the forms but it sounds like you should put in your experience with the guy and your sister's experience with this guy. Also, slap a restraing order on him.

bulgron
08-06-2007, 6:33 PM
None, if they catch you carrying without a CCW permit.

Yet one more reason why this state needs to be "shall issue."

You might try asking this question over at this site:

http://californiaccw.org/forums/list.page

They have subforums for each county. Based on issuance statistics, I'd say you don't have much of a chance in Riverside. But it's always good to file anyway. Who knows? Maybe you'll get lucky.

Look here (http://californiaccw.org/forums/show/35.page) for the Riverside forum. They indicate that Good Cause in Riverside includes being actively stalked with fear for your life or violence, but you'd have to be able to verify that.

Good luck.

CSDGuy
08-06-2007, 6:34 PM
Like the other guy said in your other thread... if you get caught by a LEO, you'll have NO chance at getting a CCW.

Otherwise your chances are determined by:
1) your own Good Cause
2) Your county's politics (for CCW).

And, of course, YOU applying for the CCW.

Jicko
08-06-2007, 6:39 PM
By the way, currently, you can't use your firearm even when your life is really threatened without getting a felony charge!!!

Even if they really come assault you, and even if "deadly force" of self-defence is warranted. At the end of the day, the DA will still charge you with a felony charge of carrying concealed weapons.

Sig357
08-06-2007, 6:42 PM
Okay thanks guys. I am going to do my homework and try to obtain a CCW permit. I have nothing to lose there. As for carrying Concealed right now, I am really unsure what I should do. I am going to file a restraining order on this guy.

If I get caught by a LEO with a concealed weapon at least I can still see my kids grow. On the other hand, if I try to be MR. obey the law at all times.... I could end up six feet under.

Which would you choose?

Pissed at CA laws:mad:

Crazed_SS
08-06-2007, 6:42 PM
#%@#%@#$

Exercise your 5th amendment!!

Or at least say.... "a friend of mine...."




Never!! Carrying concealed without a permit is a FELONY. You may never be able to own ANY guns!

On a 1st offense it'd be misdemeanor most likely. Still it's not too smart and even less smart to admit to it on the internet.

hossb7
08-06-2007, 6:44 PM
i was under the impression that having a concealed handgun without a permit was a misdemeanor, and having a concealed knife was a felony?

Crazed_SS
08-06-2007, 6:45 PM
Okay thanks guys. I am going to do my homework and try to obtain a CCW permit. I have nothing to lose there. As for carrying Concealed right now, I am really unsure what I should do. I am going to file a restraining order on this guy.

If I get caught by a LEO with a concealed weapon at least I can still see my kids grow. On the other hand, if I try to be MR. obey the law at all times.... I could end up six feet under.

Which would you choose?

Pissed at CA laws:mad:

Was this a specific articulated threat that you truly believe this person might act on? Have you called a reported it to the police? If you're applying for a CCW, you should document all threats and such. Call the police to get it on record.

Sig357
08-06-2007, 6:45 PM
By the way, currently, you can't use your firearm even when your life is really threatened without getting a felony charge!!!

Even if they really come assault you, and even if "deadly force" of self-defence is warranted. At the end of the day, the DA will still charge you with a felony charge of carrying concealed weapons.

I would take the felony charge and plead guilty, but at least I'd still be alive.

Sig357
08-06-2007, 6:47 PM
i was under the impression that having a concealed handgun without a permit was a misdemeanor, and having a concealed knife was a felony?

It was also my impression that a concealed pistol 1st offense that is registered in your name is a misdemeanor. However if the weapon is not in your name its a felony. Not sure about this, but I thought I read it somewhere. I will try to find it and post.

Any attorneys in here.

CSDGuy
08-06-2007, 6:53 PM
CCW w/o an exemption to 12025 can be either a misdemeanor or a felony. If the weapon is registered to you, then your first offense is a misdemeanor. Second offense is a felony. If the weapon is NOT registered to you, you'll be charged with a felony the FIRST time you get caught.

Your best bet, do the research and go from there.

Under certain circumstances, you MIGHT be able to mount a defense that MIGHT get you acquitted of the CCW charge if you CCW w/o the license. Since it'll be loaded (more than likely) you would also probably have to fight 12031 as well...

Try to get the CCW. Then you won't have to worry much about charges under 12025 or 12031...

Rob P.
08-06-2007, 6:56 PM
It was also my impression that a concealed weapon that is registered in your name is a misdemeanor. However if the weapon is not in your name its a felony. Not sure about this, but I thought I read it somewhere. I will try to find it and post.

Any attorneys in here.

First offense w/ registered in your name = Misdemeanor.

Second offense even if registered in your name OR if not registered in your name = Felony.

The law is not that difficult to understand in this area. If you really believe that your life is in danger then I would carry concealed and loaded on pvt property at all times. I would also carry unloaded and openly when not on pvt property AND I would inform the police that I was doing so and the reason why AFTER I had reported the threats to the police. I would also apply for a CCW permit and request expedited processing due to the threats.

M. Sage
08-06-2007, 7:01 PM
If you get a restraining order, you should be good to carry as they mull over your permit. Carry the RO with you, too.

1911su16b870
08-06-2007, 7:02 PM
Hire an attorney. If you must CCW, do so extremely carefully after consulting the attorney.

Sig357
08-06-2007, 7:05 PM
Thanks for all the advice gentlemen, I really appreciate it.

bulgron
08-06-2007, 7:07 PM
If I get caught by a LEO with a concealed weapon at least I can still see my kids grow. On the other hand, if I try to be MR. obey the law at all times.... I could end up six feet under.


May I ask exactly what sort of threat you think you face?

If you believe he's going to come at you with a gun, I'd say to hell with the law.

If you believe he'll come after you with anything other than a gun, then a good strong walking stick might be warranted. Get it in hickory or wax wood or something and make it be part of your "style" so that you go everywhere with it.

A bandana and a roll of quarters is never illegal to carry, but when combined right, and with a little practice, it makes one hell of a good bludgeoning weapon.

Heck, you can even get on an airplane with either of those two things. But both require practice to be truly effective. A few classes in the proper marital arts might be a good investment for you.

Don't carry a knife for self defense; the powers that be hate those even more than guns.

Of course, if you think he's going to come after you with multiple buddies, then it's back to "to hell with the law."

And, of course, gun or no gun, you need to start being hyper-vigilant about everything that's going on around you. If you can avoid the trouble before it comes to deadly force, all the better. Running away is an honorable tactic when the state won't support your right to defend yourself.

Have you considered a long vacation, just to let things cool down a bit?

Sig357
08-06-2007, 7:16 PM
May I ask exactly what sort of threat you think you face?

If you believe he's going to come at you with a gun, I'd say to hell with the law.

If you believe he'll come after you with anything other than a gun, then a good strong walking stick might be warranted. Get it in hickory or wax wood or something and make it be part of your "style" so that you go everywhere with it.

A bandana and a roll of quarters is never illegal to carry, but when combined right, and with a little practice, it makes one hell of a good bludgeoning weapon.

Heck, you can even get on an airplane with either of those two things. But both require practice to be truly effective. A few classes in the proper marital arts might be a good investment for you.

Don't carry a knife for self defense; the powers that be hate those even more than guns.

Of course, if you think he's going to come after you with multiple buddies, then it's back to "to hell with the law."

And, of course, gun or no gun, you need to start being hyper-vigilant about everything that's going on around you. If you can avoid the trouble before it comes to deadly force, all the better. Running away is an honorable tactic when the state won't support your right to defend yourself.

Have you considered a long vacation, just to let things cool down a bit?

A long vacation would be nice because I deserve one, but I am not going to hide from this guy. Alone this guy will do nothing, he usually gets brave when he is with his friends. In hand to hand combat I am confident that I can take him. I think he knows this, which is why he will most likely come after me with a weapon, along with his so called friends.

you guys have givin me some good advice. I will think this through and decide what course of action I will take. THANKS AGAIN!!

What ever happened to the good ole days when people just used to beat the crap out of each other?

Yankee Clipper
08-06-2007, 7:22 PM
I would think, Sig357, that the confrontation from this perp would come when your at home: not in transit from/to home or from/to work. That being the case, being appropriately armed at home is paramount - at least and until, you’re issued a CCW. I know it may be difficult to move from your place of residence but, if possible, you might want to consider it until the CCW comes through (and that sounds doubtful right now). Even a legal defensive shooting of the most obnoxious perp, it's still something you don't want to go through. Just ask any LEO that's gone through it.

AJAX22
08-06-2007, 7:26 PM
Remember, he who calls the police and gets a TRO first WINS.... get on the phone and start filing police reports.

report any and all contact after that...

THEN get a CCW

untill then, keep a rifle and loaded magazine handy but not in it. (try a guitar case, works great for my AR15)

A rifle cannot by definition be a concealed weapon, and the transport laws are alot less stringent.

of couse as usual if I'm wrong on my interperitation of the law, please correct me (I take no offense at being corrected, how else am I going to learn?)

bulgron
08-06-2007, 7:27 PM
What ever happened to the good ole days when people just used to beat the crap out of each other?

Those days never actually existed, I'm afraid.

JALLEN
08-06-2007, 7:54 PM
According to How to Own a Gun and Stay out of Jail, 2004 Edition, if you believe you or your property is in immediate grave danger and that you must carry a loaded gun in order to protect your safety, etc. You may carry loaded but not concealed, only during the interval before and after you have a chance to call local law enforcement and notify them of the danger. If the danger is immediate and grave, after it is loaded, no part of the gun can be concealed.

Before the danger you carry legally, unloaded, locked in a container, etc. Once the danger is immediate, you can load up, but only until the law arrives.

Also, according to the same source, you may carry concealed and loaded if you reasonably believe that you are in grave danger from a person subject to a current court-issued restraining order in which the court found that the restrained person poses a threat to your life and safety. P.C. 12025.5, 12031(j)(2).

Juries will determine if your carrying was reasonable in the circumstances, so circumspection is highly advisable.

Josh3239
08-06-2007, 7:59 PM
A rifle cannot by definition be a concealed weapon, and the transport laws are alot less stringent.

of couse as usual if I'm wrong on my interperitation of the law, please correct me (I take no offense at being corrected, how else am I going to learn?)

To reinforce what he said...

"It is unlawful to carry a loaded rifle, shotgun or handgun in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated area or an area where carrying a firearm is not permitted. In California, a firearm is considered loaded if unexpended ammunition is capable of being used in the firearm is attached to in any manner to the firearm.The following persons and situations are exceptions:
-persons shooting on target ranges or while hunting on the premises of a shooting club.
-a person who reasonalbly believes that he or his property is in immediate danger and may be carried for "preservation".
-a person engaged in the act of a lawful arrest.
-a person carrying a firearm at home, place of business, temporary residence, or campsites."

Also, it is completely legal to open carry.

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/CASL.pdf

tango-52
08-06-2007, 9:32 PM
I haven't much to add, except check out www.calccw.com We have a number of people from Riverside currently going through the process and some that have gotten thier CCWs from Riverside. Be alert and be safe. Good luck.

luvtolean
08-06-2007, 10:39 PM
Dude...get your sis out of danger and hide. You don't need a gun, you need a tank of gasoline.

The most sure way to win a gunfight is to not be in one.

The most sure way to win a courtroom fight is to not be in one.

Do everything you can to stay away from this guy, while helping your sister. And if you are seriously threatened, all you have to do is get your sister and leave. Nothing else is worth it.

Do get it documented with the police, and do not worry about proving how tough you are to some tweaker.

Liberty1
08-07-2007, 1:16 AM
Dude...get your sis out of danger and hide. You don't need a gun, you need a tank of gasoline.

The most sure way to win a gunfight is to not be in one.

The most sure way to win a courtroom fight is to not be in one.

Do everything you can to stay away from this guy, while helping your sister. And if you are seriously threatened, all you have to do is get your sister and leave. Nothing else is worth it.

Do get it documented with the police, and do not worry about proving how tough you are to some tweaker.


Do consult calccw.com, californiaccw.org and opencarry.org as well as an attorney to help in understanding and more importantly utilizing your legal CA options of legal self defense. Consider taking a CCW class just for the information and take a defensive handgun class for the skill building.

Also have a copy of these on you and know them but do not count on them to save you in any or all LEO encounters:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=12001-13000&file=12020-12040 (do look these sections up and read the FULL citations to better your understanding)

12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person...

(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed
within the meaning of this section...

12025.5. (a) A violation of Section 12025 is justifiable when a
person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that he or she is
in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a
current restraining order issued by a court against another person or
persons who has or have been found to pose a threat to his or her
life or safety...
(b) Upon trial for violating Section 12025, the trier of fact
shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable
belief that he or she was in grave danger.

12026. (a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state...,
who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen'
s or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on
private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal
resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person.
(b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or
carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state..., to
purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed,
a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of
residence, place of business, or on private property owned or
lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident.
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the
application of Section 12031.

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state..., from
transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the
following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.


12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for
the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized
to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory.
Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to
this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of
this section.
(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place
where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.
(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be
deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.
(h) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person engaged in
any lawful business, including a nonprofit organization, or any
officer, employee, or agent authorized by that person for lawful
purposes connected with that business, from having a loaded firearm
within the person's place of business, or any person in lawful
possession of private property from having a loaded firearm on that
property.
(j) (1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the
carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would
otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the
person or property of himself or herself or of another is in
immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is
necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used
in this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and
after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has
been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its
assistance.
(2) A violation of this section is justifiable when a person who
possesses a firearm reasonably believes that he or she is in grave
danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current
restraining order issued by a court against another person or persons
who has or have been found to pose a threat to his or her life or
safety. This paragraph may not apply when the circumstances involve
a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to Division 10 (commencing
with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent a factual finding of a
specific threat to the person's life or safety. It is not the intent
of the Legislature to limit, restrict, or narrow the application of
current statutory or judicial authority to apply this or other
justifications to defendants charged with violating Section 12025 or
of committing other similar offenses.
Upon trial for violating this section, the trier of fact shall
determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable belief
that he or she was in grave danger.
(k) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying
of a loaded firearm by any person while engaged in the act of making
or attempting to make a lawful arrest.
(l) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from having a
loaded weapon, if it is otherwise lawful, at his or her place of
residence, including any temporary residence or campsite.

additional gun laws to look up and be familiar with not to mention local ordinances:

171c & d (government buildings), 626.9 (1000' school zones)

triggerhappy
08-07-2007, 5:12 AM
Okay thanks guys. I am going to do my homework and try to obtain a CCW permit. I have nothing to lose there. As for carrying Concealed right now, I am really unsure what I should do. I am going to file a restraining order on this guy.

If I get caught by a LEO with a concealed weapon at least I can still see my kids grow. On the other hand, if I try to be MR. obey the law at all times.... I could end up six feet under.

Which would you choose?

Pissed at CA laws:mad:

How much is your life worth? Do you want to be the obedient, yet dead, citizen? You should do what keeps you alive the longest. I'd rather have to dig a hole, than be put in one. I mean, all the lawyers in the universe can't fix you if you're dead.

That said, typically speaking, the mere presence of a firearm can be an effective deterrent. I would warn you, however, of mere brandishing or threats (as a Calgunner, you wouldn't do this anyway, but I had to say it). Don't do like the heroic neighbor who used his pistol without a grave threat to himself or another...

Stay alive. That's the first rule. If the idiotic laws make that a near impossible feat, well, shop for a lawyer and keep it (yes, it) on speed-dial.

Best of luck to you. I hope this situation works out ok for all involved.

paradox
08-07-2007, 6:16 AM
A bandana and a roll of quarters is never illegal to carry, but when combined right, and with a little practice, it makes one hell of a good bludgeoning weapon.



That is a PC§12020 Sap. Guaranteed conviction. People are far, far, far better off packing a legal knife than following your advice.

Please spend some time reading the penal code before you go pontificating poo again.

dfletcher
08-07-2007, 7:28 AM
Just a few observations. I carried concealed legally for about 10 years prior to moving to CA.

Whether legally or otherwise, be aware at all times you are carrying a gun. What you are wearing, whether you run across the street -which way the wind blows. I'm about 6'4" (when I slouch) 200 lbs and had no problem hiding a Detonics or J frame. But get the wind against you (imprint) or take a run across the street & start to make a quick grab for the gun & hold it against you - even bending down for the bottom shelf at the supermarket. My bad habit was having a jacket unbuttoned, reaching for my wallet & holding the jacket front closed with my right hand while I reached for the wallet with my left. My friend (who also carried) saw me & made a "You're carrying today?" comment later. These are things to be aware of & there are many more. You never want anyone to know you are carrying. I'm sure there are good books out there that will go over these things - it's surprising in your day to day movements how a person could compromise their carry status.

You have to decide under what circumstances you are going to use a gun and your legal status has an influence on that. Are you going to stop a grocery store from being robbed? Someone else from being injured or killed? What if someone tries to rob you? If you carry without a permit, I'd suggest carrying your $$$ separate so you can toss it to the local loser who may want rob you. I don't know how you'd do having shot your druggie aggressor, but certainly problems could arise if you kill someone for trying stealing money.

My concern with carrying open is that the (drug) people you're dealing with may not be deterred so much as they become prepared. If I had a disagreement with someone & saw them openly carrying a gun - that's it for me, no more problems. But the druggie & his pals may simply use that to be better prepared. Something to consider.

CitaDeL
08-07-2007, 9:13 AM
#%@#%@#$


Never!! Carrying concealed without a permit is a FELONY. You may never be able to own ANY guns!

Carrying a concealed weapon without a license to carry is a misdemeanor on a first time offense. Depending on the vicinity he carries, he might face additional charges of possession of a loaded handgun in public or possession of a firearm in a school zone.:sleeping:

supersonic
08-07-2007, 9:39 AM
#%@#%@#$

Exercise your 5th amendment!!

Or at least say.... "a friend of mine...."




Never!! Carrying concealed without a permit is a FELONY. You may never be able to own ANY guns!

Actually, It is a MISDEMEANOR if said gun is legally owned by non-permit holder and is concealed by that person.. So, NO, it is not a felony. Yes, gun will go bye-bye forever if LEO comes across it. Yes, the loss of the rest of "carrier's" firearms will probably be unavoidable. And yes, rights/ability to legally own a firearm being revoked for a predetermined period of time is very likely- I think it may be 10 years. In the end, YOUR "FRIEND" has to determine how volatile / life-threatening the situation is and if it merits carrying concealed. Either way, TAKE A CCW TRAINING CLASS BEFORE DOING ANYTHING, then go to local Sheriff's Dept. and apply for a permit. Prepare for a long wait, and then disappointment. Just don't be a fool WHATSOEVER, when deciding what is in best interest;)
S.S.:43:

tango-52
08-07-2007, 10:29 AM
Either way, TAKE A CCW TRAINING CLASS BEFORE DOING ANYTHING, then go to local Sheriff's Dept. and apply for a permit.
DO NOT take the CCW class first. The course instructor must be on your Sheriff's list of approved trainers, otherwise the course will need to be taken again. Also, there are instructors out there right now giving totally bogus advice which is causing applicants to be denied. Some are even encouraging students to LIE on their applications! Failure to give all information about your past, a juvenile record (and you thought it was sealed, hah!), or other out-of-state CCWs, assuming they won't check, is considered lying and will get you banned from having a CCW FOREVER. :eek:

luvtolean
08-07-2007, 11:08 AM
Do consult calccw.com, californiaccw.org and opencarry.org as well as an attorney to help in understanding and more importantly utilizing your legal CA options of legal self defense. Consider taking a CCW class just for the information and take a defensive handgun class for the skill building.

I have done quite a bit of training this year. Over 30 hours with NRA instructors just on handguns, not to include carbines.

In fact my nearly completed OC CCW packet is sitting here, never to be filed as I am moving back to Santa Clara County. Which also means, I will not have a CA CCW in the forseeable future.

We can talk semantics all we want. I also know the exemption from How to Own a Gun and Stay out of Jail. We spent time on it in class.

So what.

The poster of this thread sounded very emotional. Adding a gun to the mix isn't going to help him.

Especially if I am carrying a gun, I want to stay as far away from trouble as I possibly can. I am not going to posture to prove how tough I am if some tweaker threatens me. I'm going to get the hell away from the dirt bag as he's not worth the cost even of the bullet, to say nothing of the time and money out of my life even if I am successful defending myself in court after a shoot. Not to mention the fact I could LOSE in court and end up in prison.

Over what? Proving I'm not a coward to an oxygen thief?

Liberty1
08-07-2007, 11:21 AM
The poster of this thread sounded very emotional.

He does appear that way. My hope is that he steps back, reviews his options, becomes educated as to the laws of this state, makes police reports of all past and current issues with the subject, becomes trained and skilled in LAWFUL self-defense and skilled in conflict avoidence as you suggested (Your advice was very wise.)

Adding a gun to the mix isn't going to help him.

I'll leave that determination to the potential victim and yes, decisions and actions even during lawful self defense can have potentially grave consequences.

ryang
08-07-2007, 12:07 PM
I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm appalled at how much bad (but well meaning) advice there's been.

Open carry bad. Note it's legal only if unloaded, which is worthless for self-defense. If it's loaded then it's a misdemeanor.
Illegal concealed carry also bad. Yes it can be a misdemeanor but jail time is still jail time. How much help will you be to your sister from behind bars?

Getting arrested for either pretty much kills any chance for CCW. Policy varies by area but there's also a good chance one of the questions asked during a CCW application is if you've ever carried illegally. Answering yes (and that's a question likely to come up in poly) will kill any CCW app.

All this ignores the fact that even with a bona fide reason for CCW it will still take a considerable amount of time in order to go through the application process and get a permit.

Getting a TRO is a good idea. Another that I'm surprised hasn't come up yet is getting less-lethal defense like pepper spray or taser. Taser is good if you know there's only one assailant; otherwise go OC.

artherd
08-07-2007, 12:40 PM
Where is your RO?

TonyNorCal
08-07-2007, 12:50 PM
When I lived in So Cal it didn't seem like Riverside was very difficult to get a CCW in. I think you needed a letter or two from people who could attest to good character, the standard class, and application (and some fees). Point being, it seemed like a pretty friendly CCW county. Maybe things have changed? (That was 4 years ago).

Having cause makes ones application all the better, but I don't remember that even being necessary.

Call the Riverside Sheriff, get the application, follow the legal advice from the other posters and good luck.

Sorry you're in that situation.

Sig357
08-07-2007, 7:42 PM
Well guys I was somewhat emotional when I posted originally. It was actually more anger and frustration than fear. I have received so much advise some good and some bad, but I am able to weed out the bad and make an intelligent decision.

1) I do not fear this guy, and I am not out to prove anything. I am more worried about him when he is with his tweaker friends. His threat was that he would hire someone to take care of me. I don't think he has the balls to do it himself.

2) I have decided to get a TRO anyway. This will hopefully keep him away from me, and also force me stay away from him if my anger takes over.

3) I will also take a CCW course. I would like to learn some new skills by a qualified trainer. Even if it doesn't help me get a CCW permit I am sure it will be a great learning experience. Plus I will get to shoot my new XD9 and qualify it should be fun.;)

4) I have decided not to carry concealed without a permit. I do not want to risk going to jail and losing any of my beauties in my safe. Some of them I inherited when my pops passed away, they have some huge sentimental value to me.

5) Last and definately not least, I will continue to hep my sister-in-law get out of this messed up relationship. Even though it may anger him because I am getting involved.

Thanks to all of you for your advice, even the bad advice I know you were just trying to help. I'm sure everything will be okay in time. This guy is so messed up it won't be long before he is in jail. You guys have been a great help, really. I wish I could buy you all a round of drinks. Cheers.

supersonic
08-08-2007, 6:33 PM
DO NOT take the CCW class first. The course instructor must be on your Sheriff's list of approved trainers, otherwise the course will need to be taken again. Also, there are instructors out there right now giving totally bogus advice which is causing applicants to be denied. Some are even encouraging students to LIE on their applications! Failure to give all information about your past, a juvenile record (and you thought it was sealed, hah!), or other out-of-state CCWs, assuming they won't check, is considered lying and will get you banned from having a CCW FOREVER. :eek:

Of COURSE you will want to take a Sheriff's dept.-approved course!!!!!!! As far as everything else you said, I have had PERSONAL EXPERIENCE w/ what you said about juvenile "past", and (without going any further into it so as not to incriminate certain people), you have been misinformed.
S.S.:43: