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View Full Version : CCW question... expert opinion please.


CavTrooper
08-06-2007, 1:50 PM
So if a guy is licenced in one state, what effect does it have on the chances of accquiring a CCW permit in CA? I figure that if the City Police, County Sheriff, State police, State Bureau of Investigation and FBI already signed off on me, what argument could the issuers of CA CCW permits use to deny me?
I know, logic and all, just dont fly in CA.

CCWFacts
08-06-2007, 1:58 PM
Having a CCW from another state will probably not help you at all. It could hurt you, if you have more than you need and you come off as being a "CCW collector" (yes, there are CCW collectors out there).

What reason could they have for denying you? It depends on which county you're in. If you're in SF, the reason is, "we don't issue permits to anyone who isn't government-connected (DAs, etc)". In LA, the reason is, "you're not important enough". In many other counties, you can get issued easily.

Librarian
08-06-2007, 2:00 PM
what argument could the issuers of CA CCW permits use to deny me? "You don't need CCW - the police will protect you."

Or, you might be in a county where the Sheriff actually respects the people who elected him/her. There are a few of those in California, just not all of them.

CavTrooper
08-06-2007, 2:06 PM
I only hold one permit, fortunatelly it is honored in most states and CA is not one of them! Im not sure what county I will be moving into, either San Diego, Riverside or Orange. My reasons are good enough for me but Im sure they arent good enough for the anti-gunners who control CCW permits.

tango-52
08-06-2007, 2:09 PM
If you have a choice, go for Orange County. I'm in San Diego County, and it is very tough here. OC is reasonable, but you still need to be able to articulate a "good cause" - why you are the more likely victim for crime than anyone else.

CCWFacts
08-06-2007, 2:09 PM
You'll have a good chance at getting a permit in OC. OC's Sheriff Carona has a great CCW program. In San Diego, you won't get a permit unless you have a solid business need (transporting lots of cash) or you are friends with the right people there. In Riverside, I don't know.

Ghugly
08-06-2007, 2:32 PM
I am not an expert. I don't know who would or could be an expert on this particular subject. Since California is a "may issue" state rather than a "shall issue" state, you would have to know the political pressures and the personal and or professional philosophies of the administrations of each different permit issuing agency in the state to accurately answer your question. Perhaps the key word in your question is "argue." Since, in California, they have no obligation to issue you a permit, there is seldom an argument. If they refuse the permit, they may well give you a reason, probably saying you have failed to give them "good cause." The truth is more likely that they didn't want to. Some jurisdictions really seem to want to give permits, and they will as long as you don't give them a compelling reason not to. Some jurisdictions do not want to issue permits and getting one can be next to impossible no matter what the reason.

I doubt that having a permit from another state or even from another jurisdiction in California would do you any harm. As to being of any benefit? I guess it could be, somewhere.

Glock22Fan
08-06-2007, 4:34 PM
Orange County, Kern County or San Bernardino are perhaps the best bets in the Los Angeles region. There's a wealth of material on the website listed below. The article at http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/gettingstarted/ccwarticle.html will tell you quite a bit - the good cause section was written for San Bernardino, but is relevant anywhere in California. This article is currently being serialized in the CRPA newsletter. Also in that article, we explain that posession of an out of state CCW permit (or three) isn't going to do you any good, and may even do harm.

Good luck.

Sig357
08-06-2007, 4:53 PM
I live in Riverside County City of Indio. I managed to get myself involved in my sister in laws troubles with her violent boyfriend. (Domestic Violence) He is hooked on Methamphetamine and hangs around meth friends.

This punk has threatened my life, so I am currently carrying concealed without a permit. I'd rather take my chances with LEO than to be caught without one if this idiot decides to come after me. I know it's difficult to say, but what kind of chances do I have on obtaining a CCW permit?

Piper
08-06-2007, 5:19 PM
I live in Riverside County City of Indio. I managed to get myself involved in my sister in laws troubles with her violent boyfriend. (Domestic Violence) He is hooked on Methamphetamine and hangs around meth friends.

This punk has threatened my life, so I am currently carrying concealed without a permit. I'd rather take my chances with LEO than to be caught without one if this idiot decides to come after me. I know it's difficult to say, but what kind of chances do I have on obtaining a CCW permit?

If you get caught by a LEO, none. It's not right, but it's an unfortunate fact.

Sig357
08-06-2007, 6:15 PM
If you get caught by a LEO, none. It's not right, but it's an unfortunate fact.


I understand and it is unfortunate. If this guy comes after me and I am unarmed the consequences could be much worse. What if I don't get caught by a LEO? The chances of me being caught by a LEO are slim. I try to obey the law at all times.
However I am not taking this threat lightly, even though I think this punk is full of it.

CCWFacts
08-06-2007, 7:00 PM
This punk has threatened my life, so I am currently carrying concealed without a permit. I'd rather take my chances with LEO than to be caught without one if this idiot decides to come after me. I know it's difficult to say, but what kind of chances do I have on obtaining a CCW permit?

It may be possible. You have a shot at applying in Riverside County, and to your police chief if you have one. Do try to go through the process rather than carrying illegally.

I will say, sometimes carrying illegally is the right thing to do. Imagine a woman who lives in SF and has been beaten up by her ex-husband, he repeatedly threatens to kill her, etc, everything points to an impending murder. She has flat zero chance of getting a CCW, no matter what the facts are. She is better off carrying without a permit in that case. So sometimes it's the right thing to do, but in your case, you do have some chance of getting a permit.

Yankee Clipper
08-06-2007, 7:40 PM
So if a guy is licenced in one state, what effect does it have on the chances of accquiring a CCW permit in CA? I figure that if the City Police, County Sheriff, State police, State Bureau of Investigation and FBI already signed off on me, what argument could the issuers of CA CCW permits use to deny me?
I know, logic and all, just dont fly in CA.

Your right 'logic does not fly' (to paraphrase) when it comes to CCW permits issued in this state. But even as there are some counties that do issue CCW's when the request is reasonable, the issuing authority is not going to be there forever. My concern right now, for instance, is that Mike Corona may not be re-elected in Orange County. So 'you pay your nickle and take your chances' when you move to a county that now issues CCW permits.

MedSpec65
08-06-2007, 7:57 PM
CCW Facts is absolutely correct about an out of state permit working against you if you mention it on your California application. Leave it out. My own take on this is to go ahead and get a Utah, Nevada or Florida non-resident permit (or all three) FIRST. THEN apply for your California permit, especially if you live in a county that rejects a lot of apps. The reasoning here is that the FIRST question most states ask you is if you have ever BEEN DENIED a carry permit. Just beause you have been denied a CA permit on the first go-around doesn't mean you won't eventually wind up with one if you are persistent and smart. But going through all the necessary hoops could take YEARS. During this time you will have a DENIAL on your record and you will not be eligible for a permit in ANY STATE.

CavTrooper
08-07-2007, 2:59 AM
Thanks for the info fellas.
The best thing Ive got going for me now is decent life insurance! I guess thatll have to do since I am not permitted to defend myself and the police are not required to defend me. I suppose I could apply, get denied, and let my wife know to sue the city/county/state after Im dead, Ill be sure to hang on to the denial letter for "evidence" lol.
Seriously though, Ill have to go with the open carry solution, more research to do. Thanks everyone.

Glock22Fan
08-07-2007, 7:36 AM
Remember that there are other weapons that are legal to carry, (some) knives, (some) pepper sprays, walking stick, a large maglight . . .

CCWFacts
08-07-2007, 8:20 AM
CCW Facts is absolutely correct about an out of state permit working against you if you mention it on your California application. Leave it out.

Thank you, but... you must list it. Section 2, question 1 asks:

Do you now have, or have you ever had a license to carry a concealed weapon (CCW)?
No_____Yes_____ (If yes, please indicate below. Use additional pages if necessary.)


I could be wrong on this but I assume that means a CCW issued anywhere, not just in CA.

But going through all the necessary hoops could take YEARS. During this time you will have a DENIAL on your record and you will not be eligible for a permit in ANY STATE.

Waitaminute... that doesn't sound right to me. A denial in CA will cause a person to be DQed in any state? I doubt that.

Fate
08-07-2007, 9:13 AM
I could be wrong on this but I assume that means a CCW issued anywhere, not just in CA.
I would disagree on that notion. It's a STATE issued permit and thus only information pertinent to CA is at issue. If it was a Federal program, then information regarding your status in other states would be relevant.

CCWFacts
08-07-2007, 9:45 AM
I would disagree on that notion. It's a STATE issued permit and thus only information pertinent to CA is at issue. If it was a Federal program, then information regarding your status in other states would be relevant.

I always understood it to mean, you must list all of them, but I can see how your interpretation could also make sense. I think this is a question for the lawyers. For me personally, I would either list all the CCWs (I've only ever had one, from FL), or I would get an opinion letter from a lawyer telling me that this is for in-state CCWs only.

geeknow
08-19-2007, 4:31 PM
You'll have a good chance at getting a permit in OC. OC's Sheriff Carona has a great CCW program. In San Diego, you won't get a permit unless you have a solid business need (transporting lots of cash) or you are friends with the right people there. In Riverside, I don't know.

Can you elaborate further with respect to "transport lots of cash". I am in LA (which I understand to be a "may issue" county). This avenue seems to be my best hope for a CCW. How much is "lots"? Do you know of any other particulars relating to this for LA? Any help is much appreciated.
thanks

CCWFacts
08-19-2007, 5:03 PM
If you're in LA, it's really more about your "status" than about your actual business need. Their official policy says that no facts of employment or occupation are, by themselves, sufficient to make up good cause. If you are prepared to sue you may have a shot at it. LA's program is very corrupt, unfair, and contrary to public safety. I wish I had better news for you than that. I really don't know what it takes to get issued in LA, other than there are a lot of surgeons in Beverly Hills who have them, some rabbis have them, and no one in Compton has one.

Crazed_SS
08-19-2007, 5:09 PM
Thanks for the info fellas.
The best thing Ive got going for me now is decent life insurance! I guess thatll have to do since I am not permitted to defend myself and the police are not required to defend me. I suppose I could apply, get denied, and let my wife know to sue the city/county/state after Im dead, Ill be sure to hang on to the denial letter for "evidence" lol.
Seriously though, Ill have to go with the open carry solution, more research to do. Thanks everyone.

You moving to Fallujah? It sounds like you've already decided that you're gonna be a victim of violence. If you're so convinced that violence against you is imminent, you might as well just carry anyway.

CavTrooper
08-19-2007, 5:35 PM
Actually, I feel safer in Fallujah or Bahgdad, seeing that Im heavily armed and so are my buddies. I dont expect to be a victim of violence however I like to prepare for the worst. Same reason there is loaded weapons in my home when Im there.
Do you keep a home defense piece at the ready? If not, why not?

SJshooter
08-19-2007, 5:38 PM
Can you elaborate further with respect to "transport lots of cash". I am in LA (which I understand to be a "may issue" county). This avenue seems to be my best hope for a CCW. How much is "lots"? Do you know of any other particulars relating to this for LA? Any help is much appreciated.
thanks

If you use "to transport large sums of cash" as your reason you may very well find yourself with a CCW permit that only allows you to carry during a cash-transfer exercise, and would not cover you for round-the-clock carry.

As to the person, a few threads back, who wants to illegally carry for protection against the meth-head: DON'T DO IT. Your worst case scenario is not being caught carrying, but having to use the weapon on the meth-head when he comes after you. You'll be arrested, charged with carrying illegally as well as manslaughter, you'll be tried where an attorney will make you look gun-crazy and you'll get a conviction on carrying at least (don't expect the first-time-misdemeanor route to take effect if you've used the gun, you'll get the felony rap). You won't get to take the stand in your own defense, of course, but the other side will show clearly how you could have run away given where you were standing, even after you were stabbed one time. Oh, the California jury will eat it up. You will be treated like the criminal.

I am not saying don't defend yourself. But if my choice was a legal knife, pepper spray, kubaton, or anything else, I would choose it over a weapon that is going to make my life a living hell once I save it. Until they change the CCW laws in this state, it just isn't worth it.

geeknow
08-19-2007, 6:47 PM
If you use "to transport large sums of cash" as your reason you may very well find yourself with a CCW permit that only allows you to carry during a cash-transfer exercise, and would not cover you for round-the-clock carry.

Thanks for the input. It is appreciated. As I seldom get much advance warning about a cash pickup (but its always during work hours), is a "conditional work hours only" CCW easier to obtain? This isnt an ideal solution, but would adress the times of most concern for me until I can sell and move back to the OC. Again, much appreciation for any input.

Crazed_SS
08-19-2007, 6:52 PM
Actually, I feel safer in Fallujah or Bahgdad, seeing that Im heavily armed and so are my buddies. I dont expect to be a victim of violence however I like to prepare for the worst. Same reason there is loaded weapons in my home when Im there.
Do you keep a home defense piece at the ready? If not, why not?

heh, you might "feel" safer in Fallujah or Bahgdad, but I seriously doubt you are safer there.. :)

When you said, . I suppose I could apply, get denied, and let my wife know to sue the city/county/state after Im dead, it almost sounds like you've decided that you're going to be murdered if you dont get a permit..

I understand why you want a permit though.. I want one too as a person was recently murdered right in front of my condo complex. I know getting a permit here in San Diego without "good cause" is virtually impossible though. I feel that my safety would be increased if I could carry a sidearm, but I dont feel "doomed" without one.

ccwguy
08-19-2007, 8:42 PM
ANY discussion of Good Cause statements on a public forum is very concerning. There will soon be a heavy flow of "carry lots o cash" in future statements because of this post. That really sours the grapes for others who actually have that good cause. Lying is unlawful. They will check your home and neighborhood to ensure that you do in fact live where you state. You cannot fool with the system.

The system sucks pretty much statewide, I agree. CCW's in other states? Who cares? It is your constituttional right in most states. Answer only what is asked of you. One denial does not constitute another! Our lives and circumstances change yearly and so does the CCW issuance process . Be PRO active and write your government instead of skirting the issues and complaining. Are you a member of the NRA? If not, why? Everyone on this board should be. Strength in numbers. Petition anyone?

geeknow
08-20-2007, 5:54 AM
ANY discussion of Good Cause statements on a public forum is very concerning. There will soon be a heavy flow of "carry lots o cash" in future statements because of this post. That really sours the grapes for others who actually have that good cause. Lying is unlawful. They will check your home and neighborhood to ensure that you do in fact live where you state. You cannot fool with the system.

I dont get it. What are you implying? Who's lying, or trying to fool the system? I am only trying to understand the rules, hence the questions. I came to this thread to learn more, not take a chop busting. I will go look elsewhere.

Python2
08-20-2007, 6:05 AM
If you use "to transport large sums of cash" as your reason you may very well find yourself with a CCW permit that only allows you to carry during a cash-transfer exercise, and would not cover you for round-the-clock carry.

As to the person, a few threads back, who wants to illegally carry for protection against the meth-head: DON'T DO IT. Your worst case scenario is not being caught carrying, but having to use the weapon on the meth-head when he comes after you. You'll be arrested, charged with carrying illegally as well as manslaughter, you'll be tried where an attorney will make you look gun-crazy and you'll get a conviction on carrying at least (don't expect the first-time-misdemeanor route to take effect if you've used the gun, you'll get the felony rap). You won't get to take the stand in your own defense, of course, but the other side will show clearly how you could have run away given where you were standing, even after you were stabbed one time. Oh, the California jury will eat it up. You will be treated like the criminal.

I am not saying don't defend yourself. But if my choice was a legal knife, pepper spray, kubaton, or anything else, I would choose it over a weapon that is going to make my life a living hell once I save it. Until they change the CCW laws in this state, it just isn't worth it.

You mean you, your family's life is'nt worth it? Hmmnn, to me its worth whatever it takes.

Python2
08-20-2007, 6:13 AM
I dont get it. What are you implying? Who's lying, or trying to fool the system? I am only trying to understand the rules, hence the questions. I came to this thread to learn more, not take a chop busting. I will go look elsewhere.

Take it easy Geek, I dont think you are being chopped. If you want more information, check on CalCCW forum. Lots of information there. Your carrying cash can be a acceptable GC in a lot of counties, I said "can be" depending on how you articulate your wording.

Glock22Fan
08-20-2007, 8:07 AM
With regards to the possibility of "I carry lotsa cash" being misused, some time back, someone started promoting the "I'm a coin collector. I am always buying and selling gold coins and this makes me a target" as a Good Cause. This worked, for a while, for a few people. However, a lot more people jumped on the bandwagon, bought a couple of gold coins, carried them around and tried to use it as a reason.

Law enforcement noticed the increase, checked out and found that the two gold coins (or whatever) were the only collectors' coins that the individuals had ever bought, and now 'Coin Collector" is an automatic "no no" in most counties.

Another person I heard of (this may be an Urban Legend) is supposed to have continually withdrawn cash from his account, only to pay it back in a few days later. His bank statements showed lots and lots of cash activity in substantial amounts. However, some smart cop noticed that the deposits always (roughly) balanced the immediately previous withdrawal, and it became obvious that he was just cycling money just to make his Good Cause look good.

That's why it isn't a good idea to promote apparently good good causes. As soon as everyone starts using them (and "Avid Shooter" is another one that worked until everyone found out about it), they are doomed.

LAK Supply
08-20-2007, 9:59 AM
You mean you, your family's life is'nt worth it? Hmmnn, to me its worth whatever it takes.

You would think sheriffs/chiefs would be concerned with people's safety as that is why they exist..... If you ask most of them they claim "public safety" by making sure there aren't a lot of permit-holders carrying guns on "their" streets.

So basically you must, in many places, become victim to those that would ignore the law and carry anyway before you yourself can have an effective means of self-defense in your possession while in public.

As for the carrying of cash...... we wouldn't want that money to get stolen now would we?! We all know dollars are more important than lives; after all, they are necessary for sheriffs' re-election campaigns.....