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fifT7
12-05-2012, 12:45 PM
I did some searching but never found quite what I am looking for.
I am in the process of purchasing a house and it never occurred until right now that I might have a conflict of interest.
I thought it would be ideal as it is 6-10 houses and across the street from my sons school.
Am I running the risk of getting myself in trouble?
When I go to the range all of my weapons are in cases or bags when they come out of the house but anyone with half a brain can figure out what it is that I am loading up.
If I have ammo or a gun inside my vehicle, heading to or coming from some excursion of shooting, can I be popped at any point while loading/unloading from vehicle?
Thanks

Also any issues with keeping ammo/guns at that same house?

SublimeJJ99
12-05-2012, 1:17 PM
I live within 1000 yds of my kids school as well. I've never given this subject any thought. I also load and unload weapons in and out of my vehicle twice a week on some occasions and I've never had any issues. Then again, I've never had a LEO drive by while I was doing so. I'm sure someone with knowledge on the matter may chime in here.

Librarian
12-05-2012, 1:17 PM
I did some searching but never found quite what I am looking for.
I am in the process of purchasing a house and it never occurred until right now that I might have a conflict of interest.
I thought it would be ideal as it is 6-10 houses and across the street from my sons school.
Am I running the risk of getting myself in trouble?
When I go to the range all of my weapons are in cases or bags when they come out of the house but anyone with half a brain can figure out what it is that I am loading up.
If I have ammo or a gun inside my vehicle, heading to or coming from some excursion of shooting, can I be popped at any point while loading/unloading from vehicle?
Thanks

Also any issues with keeping ammo/guns at that same house?

No issues with ammo anywhere except actually on a school property.

No issues in the house.

No issues anyplace that might NOT be considered 'public', that is, places where someone would have to scale a fence or open a door/gate to get to. Your back yard probably fits that description.

No issues when those cases are locked; CA requires handguns to be locked, Feds require long guns and hand guns to be locked.

Practically speaking, seldom any issues in your driveway or parked in front of your house -- but as those are deemed 'public', there could be issues if something brought the guns to the attention of law enforcement.

See the wiki articles
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Unlicensed_Concealed_Carry#Semi_Public_Places_Rest rictions

Dutch3
12-05-2012, 1:26 PM
I live within 1000 yds of my kids school as well.

GFSZ extends 1000 feet, not 1000 yards, just to clarify.

fifT7, is there any possibility of fencing/gating the yard and driveway? Even a dense hedge with gates at any openings would suffice. They don't have to be 6' tall or locked, just something to "present a challenge" to the public when entering the property.

Calplinker
12-05-2012, 1:28 PM
You probably know that your dwelling is exempt from the federal and state GFSZ law.

Realistically, its tough to drive more than a few miles in any metro area without coming within 1000' of a school, so you're not likely to be affected more than any of us.

Just lock it all up and you'll be fine.

EDIT: To clarify, I live across the street from a high school, so I've lived this for over 10 years. I tend to error on the side of caution and lock the guns in cases inside the bed of my truck (locking/rolling bed cover).

POLICESTATE
12-05-2012, 1:29 PM
Can you pull your car into your garage, close the door and load/unload in there?

SublimeJJ99
12-05-2012, 1:35 PM
GFSZ extends 1000 feet, not 1000 yards, just to clarify.

Yes. Sorry. Don't know what I was thinking. I'm within' 1000' of a school. Thanks for the correction.

fifT7
12-05-2012, 1:38 PM
Thanks for all the input.
Pulling my vehicle in isn't possible. Work truck with rack.
Besides I think I have only had one of my vehicles in the garage with door closed less than 5 times.
Now there is way too much stuff.
Also a front fence would look way out of place and maybe more conspicuous in my neighborhood.

stix213
12-05-2012, 2:34 PM
Practically speaking, seldom any issues in your driveway or parked in front of your house -- but as those are deemed 'public', there could be issues if something brought the guns to the attention of law enforcement.

Just to be clear, I believe librarian is talking about problems with unlocked cases or uncased. Locked cases comply with the law in those locations.

Packy14
12-05-2012, 2:39 PM
Maybe park back end first and unload into garage. They'd be hardpressed to say you weren't unloading on your property.

Nick Justice
12-06-2012, 8:44 AM
I live about three hundred feet from an elementary school, and next door to a montessori day care center.

My experience: As long as the cases are locked, there is no problem transporting them to and from home to car, even when the car is parked on the street.

I have done this as LA county sheriff's deputies have watched me do it as they drive by. Not even a second glance.

edrex
12-06-2012, 8:49 AM
I live about 100' from a school. Sometimes I can't park in front of my house and my driveway is too short to pull a car into. I lock my cases and load my car. When I get home I park as close to my house as I can and unload my car. If the neighbor is in the front yard I wave and say hi. Its not a big deal and you aren't doing anything wrong. Locked cases is the proper way to transport through school zones.

Yankee Clipper
12-06-2012, 7:02 PM
I avoid loading and unloading my firearms into a vehicle when strangers are about.
The principle being, the fewer people that know you have firearms in the home, the safer the people in your home will be. If 'perps' think there is no one home and there are firearms inside they may try to break in and possibly hurt your loved ones.
All of us here own firearms for shooting sports, hunting or protection - sometimes one firearm is supposed to do all three. To a ‘perp’ a firearm is a gun, is a gun. In their culture they are traded as currency - like we trade dollars.
Locally our friends and neighbors know we have guns but it's taken decades before we let all of them know we're gun people. If this sounds a little paranoid, I suppose it is but I believe that (1) my possessions are no ones business (unless I'm comfortable letting them know) and (2) the fewer strangers that know we have firearms the better.
I hope that makes sense.

ssaction
12-06-2012, 8:34 PM
As I read it, if you are on private property, you are ok:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones#Exemptions

(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a
firearm under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or
place of business or
on private property,
if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession
of the firearm is otherwise lawful.

Librarian
12-06-2012, 8:48 PM
As I read it, if you are on private property, you are ok:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones#Exemptions

(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a
firearm under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or
place of business or
on private property,
if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession
of the firearm is otherwise lawful.

AND if some official doesn't think it's publicly accessible - again, see http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Unlicensed_Concealed_Carry#Semi_Public_Places_Rest rictions

Also, search for the conviction thread for member Theseus, who lost that argument.

(ETA: IIRC, more precisely he was prevented from offering that argument.)

Rivers
12-07-2012, 4:09 PM
Do yourself a favor before you close your sale (purchase) on that home: CHECK OUT THE TRAFFIC DURING SCHOOL PICKUP AND DROP-OFF TIMES.

I live a two blocks from an elementary school. The teachers consume much of the immediate curbside parking, then employees for area businesses take up more, THEN we get the parents and their school-age children! I've even had a parent start to move MY garbage can before trash pickup that day (a certain amount of free space must be left or the trucks cannot use the hydraulic pickup arm, thus no trash collection), just so she could park her SUV in front of my house. I "discussed" it with her. Have never seen her back so she got the message such behavior was not appreciated.

Actually, on any home purchase, the prospective buyer should check out the area at all times of the day to see how the activity might change.

CEDaytonaRydr
12-07-2012, 11:10 PM
They're building a school across the street from my house. I've always wondered if I could sue the city, as it will alter my 2nd amendment rights. Honestly, I don't want the school there anyway. It's a High School, so vandalism will increase, accidents will increase, noise will increase, cops will start patrolling more so they can harass the high school kids...

I really don't see any positives coming out of it...

fifT7
12-08-2012, 4:23 AM
I live right up the street now and I know the traffic patterns. It is far enough away that it is only affected by people driving by but not close enough that people park there to pick up kids.

Daytona rider- you're right. Nothing good will come from them building a high school across the street from you.
Nothing

Falstaff
12-08-2012, 4:23 PM
The gfsz law such onerous BS. There's a newer high school built recently near me right on the city limits line. Right across the river (~150 feet) is county jurisdiction and is prime dove habitat.... September 1st, the doves were getting hammered.... The law was not enforced.... However if/when it is, there's gonna be some really bewildered, unhappy hunters.
I'm aware EXACTLY where the 1,000 foot line is, most people aren't.... It's farther than most think when asked, I actually wheeled it off and double checked on goog earth, anyway, I'm DONE warning other ignorant fools who don't appreciate real knowledge and are just plain too insecure and bull headed to listen.

CessnaDriver
12-08-2012, 6:33 PM
Is there any example of a non criminal running into trouble with this anyways?

All I can imagine is some nosy neighbor getting their panties in a bunch at seeing some guns and calling it in.

nicki
12-09-2012, 1:20 PM
The 1000 foot school zone hits hard in more densely populated areas.

Even when UOC was legal, the reality is the school zone issue really made it risky. The city of San Francisco for instance only had a few areas where one could UOC without stepping into a school zone.

The police would bust you if you stepped into a school zone, even if it was 2am on a Saturday night in the middle of summer.

I can't draw, load and fire my gun consistently in under 3 seconds so I saw UOC as impractical for myself.

There will need to be a tailored lawsuit dealing with the whole issue of what is a sensitive zone, but before that is done, we have to get other foundational cases down first.

I am not a lawyer, that being said, I think sensitive zones will stand constitutional challenges provided that certain criteria are met.

Not an inclusive list, but here is what I would see as a possible list.

1. What is so "sensitive" in the zone that anyone who enters this zone must surrender a fundamental right? There needs to be some evidence, something about this zone that makes it special and the standard should be strict scrutiny.

Certainly not rational basis.

2. If the zone is sensitive, then it must be a zone that must be clearly marked and have controlled access.

3. If everyone entering the safety zone has to disarm, then the zone must have some way of screening so that bad people can't just walk in armed and cause mayhem.

4. If a zone is sensitive, then it needs to have armed security on site and armed security needs to be sufficient to deal with potential threats. If a zone is sensitive, then it needs real security.

Schools and school grounds may or may not qualify as sensitive zones. Schools can of course control who enters the grounds and under what terms and if a school wants a no weapons policy, those policies will survive.

What I don't believe will survive is the 1000 foot school zone.

The use of so called zones started with trying to shut down certain type of adult establishments. Of course with the internet, much of that business is now online.;)

We are going to have to deal with this bs for another few years, before we can deal with "sensitive zones", we have to get public carry first.

Some people are mad at Justice Scalia for creating the "sensitive zone" exception, but having a few years of hindsight, the issue of "sensitive zones" wouldn't come up unless we could bear arms in "non-sensitive" zones.

The fence sitter of the Heller 5 is Justice Kennedy and based on the actions of the lower courts, they are pushing him more and more our way.

Without the inclusion of "sensitive zones" and "common arms", we may not have gotten the 5 justices in Heller.

Without Heller, there would be no MacDonald and right now we would be really screwed.

Nicki

Trriemferent
12-09-2012, 5:31 PM
Can someone please explain the exact definition of school zone. I know its 1000 feet from the school but does the 1000 feet start from the front entrance of the school? The reason I ask is if I measure from the back fence line of the school, my house is under 1000 feet but if I measure from the front entrance of the school, I am 2k feet away. I always assumed I live in a school zone but never knew for sure.

Librarian
12-09-2012, 5:53 PM
Can someone please explain the exact definition of school zone. I know its 1000 feet from the school but does the 1000 feet start from the front entrance of the school? The reason I ask is if I measure from the back fence line of the school, my house is under 1000 feet but if I measure from the front entrance of the school, I am 2k feet away. I always assumed I live in a school zone but never knew for sure.

PC says 'within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds' - that means property boundary.

I have a school up the street from me; it occupies the width of the block. 1000 feet east from its front door is within the fenced area of the school grounds!

See the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones

See also this picture of San Francisco GFSZ - http://www.gunlaws.com/images/GFSZ-SanFranMacro.png ; can't quickly find it again on the SF city web site.

Upstanding Black Citizen
12-10-2012, 11:31 AM
Also a front fence would look way out of place and maybe more conspicuous in my neighborhood.


Get a dog, then say the fence is to keep the dog in if anyone asks, which they won't.

mrdd
12-10-2012, 1:13 PM
Can someone please explain the exact definition of school zone. I know its 1000 feet from the school but does the 1000 feet start from the front entrance of the school? The reason I ask is if I measure from the back fence line of the school, my house is under 1000 feet but if I measure from the front entrance of the school, I am 2k feet away. I always assumed I live in a school zone but never knew for sure.

A 1000 foot perimeter of the school property line seems to be the best guideline.

Decoligny
12-10-2012, 1:59 PM
A 1000 foot perimeter of the school property line seems to be the best guideline.

Not just a guideline, as Librarian noted above, this is what the actual Penal Code states.

misin4mati0n
12-10-2012, 2:55 PM
Congrats on the house. I am in the same boat, just bought within 1000' of 2 schools. My $0.02 lock the cases and park as close to the house as you can. I like to back into the driveway open the garage door and load the car.

woods
12-11-2012, 3:25 AM
In my city the police say they do not bother with harassing people about the gun free zone if they are loading to a car, but they could if they wanted to. There was a recent case a guy took a cased but not locked gun across the street to his car and someone called man with gun. The police just asked him to give his name and told him to leave or put the gun in his house. That sounds somewhat reasonable since the police officer had to respond by law but they didn't even ticket the guy.

Sometimes a 5$ pack of 3 luggage locks is just worth it. Yes it's an inconvenience but until we take back this state from the communist and socialist regime (Write more letters, they sometimes work) we will just have to protect ourselves as best as we can.

We don't really need any test cases on this issue as I recall, correct me if I'm wrong.

Nothing is stopping you from having a combo lock set to 000 and the lock is on 001 for quick opening. or just pop it with a pen/screwdriver/whatever in a hurry.

Dutch3
12-11-2012, 4:01 AM
The gfsz law such onerous BS. There's a newer high school built recently near me right on the city limits line. Right across the river (~150 feet) is county jurisdiction and is prime dove habitat.... September 1st, the doves were getting hammered.... The law was not enforced.... However if/when it is, there's gonna be some really bewildered, unhappy hunters.


As much as I hate to say it, that might be a good thing. Some hunting organizations (Ducks Unlimited, for example) refuse to take any action or become involved in gun control legislation.

If some of their members start getting hassled or arrested for violating things such as the GFSZ, their stance might change. The sooner they pull their heads out of the sand, the better.