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Apostolos
12-04-2012, 3:35 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but just having a threaded handgun barrel is not an AW violation, but installing the threaded barrel on a functioning gun would be, correct?

Thanks.
David

MattyB
12-04-2012, 3:42 PM
Maybe...

Constructive intent is IMO purposely vague. While not technically illegal (im not a lawyer), having a gun to go with the barrel would probably be enough to get you detained and possibly sentenced.

Its the same as having m16 fc parts in states other than CA. Technically they are just parts but if you have an AR to go along with it you are screwed and you're tiptoeing a very fine line possessing them without an AR.

If I was you Id lose that barrel or modify it to be legal.

alfred1222
12-04-2012, 4:04 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but just having a threaded handgun barrel is not an AW violation, but installing the threaded barrel on a functioning gun would be, correct?

Thanks.
David

Theoretically no, but idk how constructive possession laws work with pistols. I know you will run into problems if the only barrel you have for that gun is the threaded one. If you have a non-threaded barrel, I think you can pass of the threaded barrel as a spare part

bwiese
12-04-2012, 5:04 PM
People should speak up about matters like this if and only if they actually know a bit what they're talking about....

KEEP YOUR FRIGGIN' BARRELS AND IGNORE THE ABOVE POSTERS.

"Constructive possession" expressly does NOT exist for CA AW 'characteristic features'. Background...


prior DOJ Firearms Deputy AG/Asst Dir Tim Rieger went on record in writing to NRA attorneys in early 2000s to expressly
say 'constructive possession' does not exist for AWs.
.
CA Dangerous Weapons law specifies concept & phrasing constructive possession phrasing for various other firearms matters
(certainly MGs, SBRs, SBSes, and explosive DDs...)

The separate lack of this phrasing in the CA AW statutes is thus intentional and falls under 'expresio unius' concept & related
case law. The simple legal logic is, bluntly, if the writers of CA AW laws had actually wanted constructive possession for AWs
to exist, they could have codified it in that section like it was separately, similarly and multiply codified elswhere.
.
Former legislator Jay LaSeur proposed AB2218 back ~2003-04? to "fix" CA AW laws, likely as a PR stunt. Instead, his bill actually
*risked*, if passed, the creation of the constructive possession concept. CA NRA lawyers & CA NRA staff warned LaSeur and
fellow travellers - but instead of fixing/killing his bill he tried to get NRA CA staff fired thru HQ back channels. It failed, and
required intervention of Chris Cox to stop 'nuclear war'.
.
It is important to note that while the first item says "no constructive possession for AW characteristic features' exists, that a
broken AW - i.e., one missing NONcharacteristic, ordinary features - such as a bolt carrier, firing pin or what-not - may well be
regarded as an AW. The Chaker case (spelling? "Chacker"???) in SoCal involved an Imbel FAL with all 'evil features' affixed, but
which had a bolt carrier removed; the individual was convicted of AW charges. This lead to the guidance statement that, "a
broken AW is still an AW" (unless specific action relating to characteristic features attached/removed were taken to clearly
delineate non-AW status).
.
No, you probably shouldn't drive around day-to-day with both a barrelless pistol & a separate threaded bbl - or a featureless
grip-free semauto centerfire rifle and a grip right next to it. That's just stupid cop & DA bait - though easily resolvable by CGF
action.

Just keep the threaded bbl stored separately and don't install it in CA and you're fine.

Many folks are doing this just fine with, for example, HK Mk23s as well as various 1911s and Browning HiPowers that used to have
threaded bbls w/muzzle compensator-weights. They're continuing to run these guns with replacement barrels while retaining the
OEM parts to maintain resale/collector value.
.
The early 2000s Walther P22 fiasco (CA DOJ approved a handgun for Rostering that turned out to be an AW because it had internal
barrel threading) matter is directly is on point.

DOJ staff checking matters relating to this have told individuals known to me to remove the barrel and keep it separate to be OK
(if they weren't doing/hadn't sent it in for the S&W factory update).

Apostolos
12-04-2012, 5:16 PM
Thanks to those who gave it their best shot, and thanks to bwiese for the definitive answer.

The reason I'm asking is because I'm entering into a drawing/fund raiser where the prize is a threaded barrel and slide assembly for a gun I already own that has a regular barrel.

In the small chance I win, I'll just keep the threaded barrel locked away in my safe for either out of state use or resale.

Thanks again.
David

cdtx2001
12-04-2012, 6:19 PM
A bullet button equipped pistol with no more than a 10rnd mag can have a threaded barrel.

1JimMarch
12-04-2012, 7:19 PM
Does the threaded barrel issue apply to revolvers?

bwiese
12-04-2012, 7:33 PM
Does the threaded barrel issue apply to revolvers?

No, only to semiautomatic pistols - not revolvers nor single-shot pistols, derrigners, etc.

Note that CA AW laws have NO 'rimfire exemption' for pistols, unlike rifles.

ScottB
12-05-2012, 6:42 AM
So, you're saying that semiautos are a special class of handgun and for another action type, mere possession, of say an unattached Contender .45/.410 barrel (IIRC, they are threaded for a choke), would be construed as constructive possession of an SBS?

Moonshine
12-05-2012, 6:46 AM
My advice would be to install a muzzle break on the barrel so the threads are not visible. I believe YMH makes a pistol brake. No ones gonna trip if they see a brake on a handgun.

12voltguy
12-05-2012, 7:13 AM
My advice would be to install a muzzle break on the barrel so the threads are not visible. I believe YMH makes a pistol brake. No ones gonna trip if they see a brake on a handgun.

seeing a brake would pretty much confirm there is a threaded barrel
:rolleyes:

12voltguy
12-05-2012, 7:14 AM
People should speak up about matters like this if and only if they actually know a bit what they're talking about....

]

are you new here?:D

Decoligny
12-05-2012, 7:22 AM
My advice would be to install a muzzle break on the barrel so the threads are not visible. I believe YMH makes a pistol brake. No ones gonna trip if they see a brake on a handgun.

If you do so, be sure to pin/weld the muzzle break onto the barrel. If the muzzle break catches the atttention of an LEO and he then determines that it is simply screwed on and can be removed, you will have charges pressed, possibly felony charges.

Oceanbob
12-05-2012, 7:28 AM
Legal or not; attend some gun games and you will see 60+ people with threaded barrels including LEO shooting and standing around. Right here in California.

Personally I don't think the issue is important to most LE.

But it's still not legal. I realize that...:D

Manolito
12-05-2012, 7:36 AM
I view a threaded barrel like tinted windows you can drive around for a long time with tinted windows but that one day you are on your way to a important meeting you will be stopped and problems will result.

Gray areas are for retired attorneys that have a lot of time and money for me not worth the risk.

bwiese
12-05-2012, 11:14 AM
So, you're saying that semiautos are a special class of handgun and for another action type, mere possession, of say an unattached Contender .45/.410 barrel (IIRC, they are threaded for a choke), would be construed as constructive possession of an SBS?

Perhaps we're mixing 'n'matching things here... using your items and clarifying:

1. Semiauto pistols can't have threaded barrels installed unless BB maglock installed.

2. Folks can own a separate threaded bbl that machines a semiauto pistol
under their ownership & control, they just can't install it in CA unless they
also install a BulletButton and use locap mags only.

3. A short bbl chambered for a shotgun shell (.410) possessed in combination
with a shotgun WILL be regarded under CA / Fed law as 'constructive possession' of an SBS. [If the gun has Fed NFA AOW paperwork, the SBS
drama goes away.]

Munk
12-05-2012, 11:35 AM
No, only to semiautomatic pistols - not revolvers nor single-shot pistols, derrigners, etc.

Note that CA AW laws have NO 'rimfire exemption' for pistols, unlike rifles.

I ran into a lot of misinformation about this when seeking info about getting a muzzle brake installed on a T/C Encore pistol. Many smiths and shops are still unaware that the restriction on threaded barrels only applies to semi-auto.

Perhaps we're mixing 'n'matching things here... using your items and clarifying:

1. Semiauto pistols can't have threaded barrels installed.

2. Folks can own a separate threaded bbl that machines a semiauto pistol
under their ownership & control, they just can't install it in CA unless they
also install a BulletButton and use locap mags only.

3. A short bbl chambered for a shotgun shell (.410) possessed in combination
with a shotgun WILL be regarded under CA / Fed law as 'constructive possession' of an SBS. [If the gun has Fed NFA AOW paperwork, the SBS
drama goes away.]

My understanding on point 1 was that it only applied to semi-autos with detachable magazines (Meaning that a bullet-button or similar is fine if you can rig one up for a pistol).

On point 3, does it require that the receiver or frame be a shotgun? Or is it a bbl chambered or rechambered to accept a fixed shotgun shell with any compatible receiver or firearm?

If it's the former, that would mean that a T/C pistol owned with the .45/.410 barrel is NOT an SBS (because it's a pistol), and if it's the latter, then some gunstores i've been to need to keep a better eye on what they sell to the public.

Decoligny
12-05-2012, 11:52 AM
I ran into a lot of misinformation about this when seeking info about getting a muzzle brake installed on a T/C Encore pistol. Many smiths and shops are still unaware that the restriction on threaded barrels only applies to semi-auto.



My understanding on point 1 was that it only applied to semi-autos with detachable magazines (Meaning that a bullet-button or similar is fine if you can rig one up for a pistol).

On point 3, does it require that the receiver or frame be a shotgun? Or is it a bbl chambered or rechambered to accept a fixed shotgun shell with any compatible receiver or firearm?

If it's the former, that would mean that a T/C pistol owned with the .45/.410 barrel is NOT an SBS (because it's a pistol), and if it's the latter, then some gunstores i've been to need to keep a better eye on what they sell to the public.

Bullet button for a semi-auto pistol would indeed allow a threaded barrel without activating the "Assault Weapon" status.

30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also means any of the following:
...
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer's hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

mej16489
12-05-2012, 12:05 PM
On point 3, does it require that the receiver or frame be a shotgun? Or is it a bbl chambered or rechambered to accept a fixed shotgun shell with any compatible receiver or firearm?

If it's the former, that would mean that a T/C pistol owned with the .45/.410 barrel is NOT an SBS (because it's a pistol), and if it's the latter, then some gunstores i've been to need to keep a better eye on what they sell to the public.

I think the language of the law is with regard to being 'designed' to fire a shotgun shell...that's what caused the problem with the Taurus Judge in CA being classified as an SBS

redcliff
12-05-2012, 12:19 PM
If you do so, be sure to pin/weld the muzzle break onto the barrel. If the muzzle break catches the atttention of an LEO and he then determines that it is simply screwed on and can be removed, you will have charges pressed, possibly felony charges.

Can you provide a link to where it says pin and welded is needed? They didnt do that on Walther P22's.

The law prohibits on semi-auto pistols with detachable magazine "a threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer."

I respectfully suggest there are numerous ways to modify a threaded barrel so it no longer has the capacity to accept those devices. It appears epoxy was used on Walther P22's; and silver soldered cone compensators on 1911's seem to have no capacity to accept. Something as simple as a thread protector loctited on may be sufficient?

bwiese
12-05-2012, 12:50 PM
Can you provide a link to where it says pin and welded is needed? They didnt do that on Walther P22's.

The law prohibits on semi-auto pistols with detachable magazine "a threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer."

I respectfully suggest there are numerous ways to modify a threaded barrel so it no longer has the capacity to accept those devices. It appears epoxy was used on Walther P22's; and silver soldered cone compensators on 1911's seem to have no capacity to accept. Something as simple as a thread protector loctited on may be sufficient?

Expect some pushback, but the DOJ kinda set a standard for 'permanence' on that one that falls far below ATF's. Defendable as long as epoxy doesn't break.

However, practical technical matters intervene: that epoxy may well be fine for a .22LR blowback gun, but with a centerfire locked breech gun and with more heat imparted to bbl in shorter time, the stability of the epoxy would come into question.