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View Full Version : Firearms cannot be confiscated in Cali in an emergency...?


the86d
12-04-2012, 1:29 PM
I am a relatively new firearm owner compared to a lot of veteran members here, but I don't ever see this mentioned (AB1645):
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/news-from-nra-ila/2007/california-emergency-powers-bill-sign.aspx

“During a time when there is no 9-1-1 or police upon which to rely, honest citizens will never again have to worry that their only means of self protection from looters or thugs will be taken away by the government.”

Did J.Brown's signing AB 144 void this?

a1c
12-04-2012, 1:42 PM
No.

jonc
12-04-2012, 1:44 PM
I hope not!

robcoe
12-04-2012, 1:44 PM
Not legally, but a lot of police agencies don't actually care if what they do is legal or not.

bwiese
12-04-2012, 1:58 PM
This is the California version of the "Katrina bill".

California NRA staff worked very hard on this.

It was passed at a time we had some more GOP friends in legislature (before they totally collapsed).
Doug LaMalfa *drove* and really helped out, unlike many other GOP legislators that at best vote
correctly but are otherwise inactive.

Key Dems were blackmailed a bit because even if they wanted to see so-called 'reasonable gun regulation' they
did NOT want to be associated with a generic 'confiscation' concept. The bill was couched as a 'protection bill',
and it appears there were threats of NRA Orange Cards going out in key districts announcing "Sen [Assemblyman]
Jones voted to confiscate your guns because he did not support this fixup", etc.

Remember also during the time this bill was moving upward, the presses was still hot from massive LEO misbehaviors
in Louisiana. This news included murders by cops, possibly racially motivated - and also included the infamous CHP
officer who travelled over to Lousiana to "help" and ended up beating up a true little old lady at home with only her
old revolver for protection against looting.

[No, AB144 isn't related nor overrides... unclear on why it would be seen as such (? que?)]

POLICESTATE
12-04-2012, 2:01 PM
This is the California version of the "Katrina bill".

California NRA staff worked very hard on this.

It was passed at a time we had some more GOP friends in legislature (before they totally collapsed).
Doug LaMalfa *drove* and really helped out, unlike many other GOP legislators that at best vote
correctly but are otherwise inactive.

Key Dems were blackmailed a bit because even if they wanted to see so-called 'reasonable gun regulation' they
did NOT want to be associated with a generic 'confiscation' concept. The bill was couched as a 'protection bill',
and it appears there were threats of NRA Orange Cards going out in key districts announcing "Sen [Assemblyman]
Jones voted to confiscate your guns because he did not support this fixup", etc.

Remember also during the time this bill was moving upward, the presses was still hot from massive LEO misbehaviors
in Louisiana. This news included murders by cops, possibly racially motivated - and also included the infamous CHP
officer who travelled over to Lousiana to "help" and ended up beating up a true little old lady at home with only her
old revolver for protection against looting.

[No, AB144 isn't related nor overrides... unclear on why it would be seen as such (? que?)]

Something I recall from the past reading somewhere, most likely a gun forum or a stupid blog, you know how it goes :rolleyes:

Thanks for clearing it up :D

SilverTauron
12-04-2012, 6:29 PM
You are SADLY mistaken my friend.

History disagrees with you.

In the flurry of anti-confiscation laws that were passed after Katrina,it would seem many have forgotten that it was already illegal for the NOPD to order a citywide gun ban.Bottom line,if an authority figure orders police & military units to seize civil arms that is exactly what they will do.

Sure,some members will stand on principle and disobey such an illegal order.They will then be relieved of duty and a 'yes man' will certainly replace them.The outcome in the field is the same.

Passing laws to prevent a bent government from breaking its own regulations are akin to toothless gun laws which ban possession by felons,as neither party cares about the legalities of their actions.

GaryV
12-04-2012, 7:20 PM
ST is correct that no law can guarantee that confiscations will not occur. But to answer the OP's question, even if somehow the California law was voided, there is also a federal law prohibiting gun confiscation during an emergency as well, so it would still be illegal.

Ledbetter
12-04-2012, 9:18 PM
Politically very very smart. Opponents of such a bill are shown to be in favor of a gun confiscation. However, some lawmakers, like some law enforcement officers have other goals than obeying the laws protecting our freedom.

johnny1290
12-05-2012, 2:12 AM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the guys that think laws have anything to do with your guns getting taken.

They don't.

If someone orders your guns to be taken, that's what will happen. Courts might argue it later, but that won't make any difference when they come for them.

the86d
12-05-2012, 7:56 AM
Illegally acquiring $400 or more in property value is a felony (in California), right?

(Life, Liberty, & [Pursuit of Happiness] Property>$400 :))

I believe that you can legally TRY TO "discourage" a felony in progress "at the ready" in California, while in your home.

It is a scary thought of someone taking your shtuff that you would otherwise be able to defend your family with... leaving your lady, and children virtually defenseless if you were out (at work)...

Dantedamean
12-05-2012, 10:53 AM
Illegally acquiring $400 or more in property value is a felony (in California), right?

(Life, Liberty, & [Pursuit of Happiness] Property>$400 :))

I believe that you can legally TRY TO "discourage" a felony in progress "at the ready" in California, while in your home.

It is a scary thought of someone taking your shtuff that you would otherwise be able to defend your family with... leaving your lady, and children virtually defenseless if you were out (at work)...

You can make an arrest if you have probable cause that a felony was committed. However if your wrong you open yourself up to a lawsuit.

Dreaded Claymore
12-05-2012, 7:47 PM
This is the California version of the "Katrina bill".

California NRA staff worked very hard on this...

I'm very glad I opened this thread. I didn't know about this law before.

People often say, "What has the NRA ever done for California?" and I never knew what to tell them. Now I'll have something to say when I hear that question.

the86d
12-06-2012, 5:25 AM
I'm very glad I opened this thread. I didn't know about this law before.

People often say, "What has the NRA ever done for California?" and I never knew what to tell them. Now I'll have something to say when I hear that question.

I didn't know the law existed, I came across it searching for something else!

adrenalinemedic
12-06-2012, 5:42 PM
Illegally acquiring $400 or more in property value is a felony (in California), right?


It was $450, now its $900, if you're referring to Grand Theft.

It was bumped up to lessen the burden on the court and prison systems.

HBrebel
12-07-2012, 8:49 AM
cops in CA aren't stupid enough to attempt a confiscation. A confiscation attempt alone would cause thousands of deaths before during and years after it began.

ldsnet
12-07-2012, 11:39 AM
It was $450, now its $900, if you're referring to Grand Theft.

It was bumped up to lessen the burden on the court and prison systems.

With the current cost/value of handguns and rifles, that is still very acheiveable with one or two weapons. Still Grand Theft.

Ron-Solo
12-07-2012, 3:40 PM
Since confiscation is very clearly a violation of state an federal law, it won't be happening any time soon. It is not an obscure law and has been widely briefed throughout the LE community.

And for some of you legal scholars, the value of a firearm is irrelevant. Per 487(d)(2) PC, the theft of any firearm is a felony, and is not a wobbler.

4DSJW
12-07-2012, 5:15 PM
Serious question, hoping for informed answers. What if the governor declares Martial Law after a disaster. I think we can count on many/most local agencies as well as the National Guard being willing to confiscate firearms, making what is legal and what is not legal an academic question to be answered in courts after the fact.

Once Martial Law has been declared do all the current laws regarding confiscation still apply?

Ron-Solo
12-07-2012, 5:58 PM
The governor can not override federal or state law. Martial law means the military, not the National Guard (unless federalized) takes over running the government and public safety functions. Civil law is suspended and civilians are subject to military law.

Can you think of any governor willing to surrender control of a state to the military?

California is a disaster prone state, and there were no discussions of confiscations during any incident in recent history including the Northridge earthquake, LA riots, fires, floods, etc. Keep in mind, existing laws concerning carry and possession of firearms are still in effect during an emergency, so you can't just start carrying anything you want down the street or you will get detained. During the LA riots, I encountered hundreds of store owners who were armed at their place of business. There was never any though of trying to disarm those people, and the riots were as crazy as it gets.

EM2
12-07-2012, 6:43 PM
cops in CA aren't stupid enough to attempt a confiscation. A confiscation attempt alone would cause thousands of deaths before during and years after it began.

Since confiscation is very clearly a violation of state an federal law, it won't be happening any time soon. It is not an obscure law and has been widely briefed throughout the LE community.

And for some of you legal scholars, the value of a firearm is irrelevant. Per 487(d)(2) PC, the theft of any firearm is a felony, and is not a wobbler.


Ah but it has already happened here.

http://www.nrawinningteam.com/confiscation/calockyer.html
http://gunowners.org/nws9911.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1667649/posts

The good people of CA will give up their arms without barely a wimper.

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net
12-07-2012, 7:15 PM
The governor can not override federal or state law. Martial law means the military, not the National Guard (unless federalized) takes over running the government and public safety functions. Civil law is suspended and civilians are subject to military law.

Can you think of any governor willing to surrender control of a state to the military?

California is a disaster prone state, and there were no discussions of confiscations during any incident in recent history including the Northridge earthquake, LA riots, fires, floods, etc. Keep in mind, existing laws concerning carry and possession of firearms are still in effect during an emergency, so you can't just start carrying anything you want down the street or you will get detained. During the LA riots, I encountered hundreds of store owners who were armed at their place of business. There was never any though of trying to disarm those people, and the riots were as crazy as it gets.

http://www.infowars.com/new-orleans-mayor-admits-illegal-gun-confiscation/
Appears to me a Mayor violated the law and three years later, finally admitted it. A Governor may not be able to override Federal and state laws but that doesn't mean he can not send his troopers to confiscate your guns. It also doesn't mean that those troopers won't carry out those orders; just like Katrina.

And what are the consequences of such violation of law? Mayor Nagin spent how many days in jail for violating the law and the Constitutional Rights of his citizens? That's right. Not one day.

Can't? Won't? I wouldn't bet my life on the law protecting me from the likes of Nagin or Brown or any California Governor.

G-Man WC
12-07-2012, 7:31 PM
Firearms...what firearms?
-g

darksands
12-08-2012, 5:36 PM
We should all know that just because it is a law, or a right, it won't stop people from doing it, lawmen or not.

todd2968
12-08-2012, 7:09 PM
Any other time they wish but not in an emergency

FMFdevildoc
12-08-2012, 7:15 PM
If SHTF I "do not own any firearms". Period, point blank. 'Nuff said.

Ron-Solo
12-08-2012, 8:34 PM
Ah but it has already happened here.

http://www.nrawinningteam.com/confiscation/calockyer.html
http://gunowners.org/nws9911.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1667649/posts

The good people of CA will give up their arms without barely a wimper.

None of these post have anything to do with disaster seizures.

http://www.infowars.com/new-orleans-mayor-admits-illegal-gun-confiscation/
Appears to me a Mayor violated the law and three years later, finally admitted it. A Governor may not be able to override Federal and state laws but that doesn't mean he can not send his troopers to confiscate your guns. It also doesn't mean that those troopers won't carry out those orders; just like Katrina.

And what are the consequences of such violation of law? Mayor Nagin spent how many days in jail for violating the law and the Constitutional Rights of his citizens? That's right. Not one day.

Can't? Won't? I wouldn't bet my life on the law protecting me from the likes of Nagin or Brown or any California Governor.

Both the federal and state laws were passed after Katrina, because of the many failures of Katrina. The main crap only happened in New Orleans because of their ineptness and failure to prepare. The whole Gulf Coast was decimated, but it only went south in New Orleans.


Nagin also tried to declare martial law, but Louisiana did not any statutes concerning martial law.

And, with few exceptions, violations of Constitutional rights are civil in nature, rather than criminal.

pismopal
12-09-2012, 8:07 PM
cops in CA aren't stupid enough to attempt a confiscation. A confiscation attempt alone would cause thousands of deaths before during and years after it began.

Assuming that they were stupid enough ..there is one enormous insurmountable problem. It would be physically...logistically impossible for local police to even collect guns at this level..let alone "seize" them and store them. We all need to get a grip here. That being said...the law is the way guns will be "seized" ..changing the law to make it a serious crime will take most of the guns as they are turned in and then seizure will be done..one victim at a time until the holdouts are cleaned out. Keep voting for liberal Dems and it will come to pass. :(

misterjake
12-09-2012, 8:49 PM
No piece of paper can stop people with power until after the fact.

Government will do what it wants to do.

As long as the ink on the parchment makes you feel good, that's all that matters.

misterjake
12-09-2012, 8:51 PM
If a disaster was regional, like a major earthquake in the city of Fresno, you can bet California and the Feds would find the resources to restore their order.

Statewide? No way.....city wide? Yes. They have lists and names at the ready.

Assuming that they were stupid enough ..there is one enormous insurmountable problem. It would be physically...logistically impossible for local police to even collect guns at this level..let alone "seize" them and store them. We all need to get a grip here. That being said...the law is the way guns will be "seized" ..changing the law to make it a serious crime will take most of the guns as they are turned in and then seizure will be done..one victim at a time until the holdouts are cleaned out. Keep voting for liberal Dems and it will come to pass. :(

Meplat
12-09-2012, 8:53 PM
You can make an arrest if you have probable cause that a felony was committed. However if your wrong you open yourself up to a lawsuit.

I believe you can still use deadly force to stop a felony in progress, it’s a dicey thing though. With LE involved your family might win the wrongful death suite.

Ron-Solo
12-09-2012, 8:55 PM
:TFH:

:beatdeadhorse5:

vantec08
12-10-2012, 2:02 AM
History disagrees with you.

In the flurry of anti-confiscation laws that were passed after Katrina,it would seem many have forgotten that it was already illegal for the NOPD to order a citywide gun ban.Bottom line,if an authority figure orders police & military units to seize civil arms that is exactly what they will do.

Sure,some members will stand on principle and disobey such an illegal order.They will then be relieved of duty and a 'yes man' will certainly replace them.The outcome in the field is the same.

Passing laws to prevent a bent government from breaking its own regulations are akin to toothless gun laws which ban possession by felons,as neither party cares about the legalities of their actions.


There wont be too many that will disobey. Many if not most LEOs, in pursuit of authority and the pension, will cross the line willingly.

pismopal
12-10-2012, 6:29 AM
If a disaster was regional, like a major earthquake in the city of Fresno, you can bet California and the Feds would find the resources to restore their order.

Statewide? No way.....city wide? Yes. They have lists and names at the ready.

Many, if not most,guns are not on any list. Mandatory registration is a relatively new requirement. I have unregistered guns and many others do too...perfectly legally unregistered. Now..to the seizures. Who is going to do that? LAPD officers clear the station at the start of their watch behind in their call load....who is going to do the work of calling on home owners? You overestimate the capabilities of the thin and getting thinner blue line, most especially in an unusual occurence or disaster. Seizures..nope......legislated surrender of private firearms....very possible and even probable as long as people continue to vote for socialists.

SilverTauron
12-10-2012, 7:50 AM
Many, if not most,guns are not on any list. Mandatory registration is a relatively new requirement. I have unregistered guns and many others do too...perfectly legally unregistered. Now..to the seizures. Who is going to do that? .

Law Enforcement.

But not through the classic "door to door" scenario we saw in NO. The most likely disaster to strike CA won't be a hurricane , but an earthquake. Those ruin roads & logistical resources. The NOPD was able to get around on boats after the flag flew in Louisiana, but CA police won't be as lucky in the event of an 8.0+ quake.

What would happen is a decree that anyone caught in public with a gun sans badge or military credentials will lose their piece and be jailed on the spot. The cops won't go door to door to seize arms, but they certainly can stop and frisk anyone they run into who's waltzing about the wreckage.

DannyInSoCal
12-10-2012, 7:59 AM
It won't take much for the 2/3rds super liberal majority legislature to change this -

Thank a Democrat...