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ZOOMST15
12-03-2012, 11:58 AM
As the title says, is it legal for family or friends to use a firearm registered under your name in self defense?

I couldn't really find much on this through search for some reason. I understand that one must be under clear life and death situation to use self defense, but is it legal for a family or friends to use you firearm in such situation?

Thanks

bwiese
12-03-2012, 12:06 PM
There's no law requirng general registration of guns (except AWs).

Some certain pathways to obtaining guns do or will require paperwork/reg.

From a practical standpoint investigation of a legit shoot will only involve the legitimacy of the shoot - ant that should be your concern (otherwise, you're up for a murder or attempted murder charge). Everything else pales.

If the shoot is good/justified, these trivia aren't looked at. [Possible handwaving if the person doing the justified shoot were a convicted felon, although there is even an exemption for that but expect detailed scrutiny in that case plus felon-access-to-guns question...]

AK all day
12-03-2012, 12:06 PM
There are self defense exemptions. I am not a lawyer, so hopefully somebody can give you more information.

Remember, rifles and shotguns are not registered as of now. That is set to change in 2014 in California.

stix213
12-03-2012, 12:14 PM
If you're loaning a handgun to family/friends, they are supposed to have an HSC. I doubt though that would even be looked at in a legit self defense shooting though. IANAL

ZOOMST15
12-03-2012, 12:14 PM
There's no law requirng general registration of guns (except AWs).

Some certain pathways to obtaining guns do or will require paperwork/reg.

From a practical standpoint investigation of a legit shoot will only involve the legitimacy of the shoot - ant that should be your concern (otherwise, you're up for a murder or attempted murder charge). Everything else pales.

If the shoot is good/justified, these trivia aren't looked at. [Possible handwaving if the person doing the justified shoot were a convicted felon, although there is even an exemption for that but expect detailed scrutiny in that case plus felon-access-to-guns question...]


Thanks for the answers guys. Just want to clarify, when I DROS a new gun, isn't it being registered? What do you mean by no law that requires general registration?

Thanks

bwiese
12-03-2012, 12:23 PM
Thanks for the answers guys. Just want to clarify, when I DROS a new gun, isn't it being registered? What do you mean by no law that requires general registration?

Thanks

I have bagfuls of guns I legally acquired before 1991 - private transfers were not required to be papered until then, you could buy a gun in the back of a bowling alley.

Interfamily transfers of non-AW long guns to this day do not require paperwork (though this is changing)

People moving into CA with handguns (very well unpapered to them) did not have to file paperwork until 1998.

ZOOMST15
12-03-2012, 12:29 PM
I have bagfuls of guns I legally acquired before 1991 - private transfers were not required to be papered until then, you could buy a gun in the back of a bowling alley.

Interfamily transfers of non-AW long guns to this day do not require paperwork (though this is changing)

People moving into CA with handguns (very well unpapered to them) did not have to file paperwork until 1998.


Ok, I understand what you are saying now. What you mean is that the only thing that matters is the legitimacy of the shot and not who owns the gun. Because even if the guns are under my name, it didn't require paperwork for interfamily transfer in the first place. (so do we just give the gun and verbally say its now yours?)

I assume the same applies to family friends that's staying with us?

ZOOMST15
12-03-2012, 12:38 PM
Also let me clarify, I'm not looking to transfer any of my guns. I'm just thinking that if I'm not there to protect them, can they still use the firearms to protect themselves from a life or death situation without getting in trouble later.

a1c
12-03-2012, 1:25 PM
Also let me clarify, I'm not looking to transfer any of my guns. I'm just thinking that if I'm not there to protect them, can they still use the firearms to protect themselves from a life or death situation without getting in trouble later.

Yes. No problem here.

Librarian
12-03-2012, 1:31 PM
Ok, I understand what you are saying now. What you mean is that the only thing that matters is the legitimacy of the shot and not who owns the gun. Because even if the guns are under my name, it didn't require paperwork for interfamily transfer in the first place. (so do we just give the gun and verbally say its now yours?)

I assume the same applies to family friends that's staying with us?

Intrafamily transfer of handguns requires paperwork - but lending a gun for up to thirty (PC 27880) days is legal without paperwork, so lending one or borrowing one for the duration of a self-defense event is no problem on that technicality. (Always assuming that the borrower is not a prohibited person.)

ronlglock
12-04-2012, 8:19 AM
If you're loaning a handgun to family/friends, they are supposed to have an HSC. I doubt though that would even be looked at in a legit self defense shooting though. IANAL

So if I take my spouse or nephew to the range, they need an HSC to use my handguns?

Librarian
12-04-2012, 12:03 PM
So if I take my spouse or nephew to the range, they need an HSC to use my handguns?

No.

HSC is required for transfer. A loan of 31 days or more is considered a transfer; lending a handgun at the range, for an hour or three, is not a transfer.

ap3572001
12-04-2012, 12:12 PM
As the title says, is it legal for family or friends to use a firearm registered under your name in self defense?

I couldn't really find much on this through search for some reason. I understand that one must be under clear life and death situation to use self defense, but is it legal for a family or friends to use you firearm in such situation?

Thanks

Hi. Good question .

For starters, If I am in fear of loosing my life , I will not really care what I am using to save it . ( I hope others agree with me,)

If my brothers family is at my house overnight and in an emmergency my brother manages to get to my guns and save the lives of my children , His own life and His familiy , thats just fine with me .
Job well done.:)

hvengel
12-04-2012, 1:17 PM
There are self defense exemptions. I am not a lawyer, so hopefully somebody can give you more information.

Remember, rifles and shotguns are not registered as of now. That is set to change in 2014 in California.

There was a case in SF perhaps 20 years ago that started with a home invasion. One of the people in the house was a guest who happened to have a felony record. He also happened to know where the property owner stored his gun (probably not a good idea for the home owner but that is another issue). There was a struggle at the door and the felon retrieved the gun and shoot and killed one of the intruders. The DA charged him with being a felon in possession in spite of the fact that it was clearly a legitimate self defense case. He was convicted but on appeal it was reversed because even a felon has a right to self defense and using a gun for this purpose exempted him from the felon in possession charge. The key here is that the felon only had the gun in his possession while there was actual grave danger and returned the gun to it's owner as soon as that was possible.

The point is that the courts have already ruled that a felon who is a guest in your house can grab your gun to defend himself against an intruder and not violate the law. Why wouldn't this same logic apply to others who are invited guests or members of your household?

fizux
12-05-2012, 6:01 AM
There was a case in SF perhaps 20 years ago that started with a home invasion. One of the people in the house was a guest who happened to have a felony record.

Perhaps a different incident, but I've seen People v. King, 22 Cal. 3d 12 (1978), cited for the self-defense overrides prohibition principle. That incident took place in San Jose if I recall.
http://law.justia.com/cases/california/cal3d/22/12.html

The Court created a fairly detailed test to allow this exception, which imposed a much higher burden on the defendant felon seeking to avoid the conviction for possession under then-PC 12021. (Didn't contribute to incident, duty to retreat, someone else brought the gun to the party, didn't have gun any longer than absolutely necessary, etc).