PDA

View Full Version : Passing through California with my AR-15


goofythekiller
12-03-2012, 10:21 AM
Greetings and thank you for hosting this awesome forum.

I will be driving from New York to Washington state and will be passing through California and staying a few days in San Francisco and Los Angeles. I have a New York legal AR-15 Bushmaster rifle that I want to take with me on my road trip. Other than installing a temporary bullet button, are there any other issues that I should be concerned about that would put my rifle on the wrong side of the law in California? What about Los Angeles and San Francisco? Do they have similar local restrictions as say New York City?

Thank you for any input.

bwiese
12-03-2012, 10:29 AM
BulletButton maglocks do NOT override 'banned-by-name' AW status of original Roberti Roos and Kasler-listed guns.

If your gun says "Bushmaster XM15" on the lower receiver it will indeed be regarded as an AW regardless of any features changes.

[A Bushmaster Carbon15 lower - if it specifically does not also say "Professional Ordnance" on it - would be legal, as well as the dozens upon dozens of other 'off-list' lower receivers.]

You need to have an 'off-list' AR lower to even begin to consider which configured features suites are legal.

-DO NOT CROSS INTO CA WITH AN ILLEGAL AW
-DO NOT CROSS INTO CA WITH HICAP MAGAZINES (unless you did
own/acquire/possess within California them before 1/1/2000)

There is no "visit" or "training" exemption. There is a fairly useless 'competition exemption' in CA which only covers in & out and no extended visit, etc. It's pretty useless exempt as an element of criminal defense.

SMR510
12-03-2012, 10:31 AM
Here is the "assault weapon" flowchart, it should answer any question you have about the legality of bringing your AR into CA:
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

If you pass that test then you need to make sure that your lower is not listed as an assault weapon by default:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Firearms_listed_by_name

More information:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Off_List_Lowers_(OLL/OLR)

Other than that, do not bring >10 round mags into CA. If you have them and want to bring them on your trip that is fine but they will need to be disassembled before you enter CA and stay that way until you are outside of CA.

Hopefully that clears up the whole thing for you, sorry but our laws are a bit crazy. If you are bringing any other guns with you make sure that your mags are 10 rounds or less or disassembled into parts kits.

goofythekiller
12-03-2012, 10:35 AM
BulletButton maglocks do NOT override 'banned-by-name' AW status of original Roberti Roos and Kasler-listed guns.

If your gun says "Bushmaster XM15" on the lower receiver it will indeed be regarded as an AW regardless of any features changes.


My rifle is indeed a Bushmaster XM15. I guess that rules out any possibility of taking my rifle through California.

Thanks for the info.

Here is the "assault weapon" flowchart, it should answer any question you have about the legality of bringing your AR into CA:
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

If you pass that test then you need to make sure that your lower is not listed as an assault weapon by default:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Firearms_listed_by_name

More information:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Off_List_Lowers_(OLL/OLR)

Other than that, do not bring >10 round mags into CA. If you have them and want to bring them on your trip that is fine but they will need to be disassembled before you enter CA and stay that way until you are outside of CA.

Hopefully that clears up the whole thing for you, sorry but our laws are a bit crazy. If you are bringing any other guns with you make sure that your mags are 10 rounds or less or disassembled into parts kits.

Thanks for the info. The Bushmaster XM15 is indeed banned by name.

Best of luck to you guys getting rid of these ridiculous laws.

Lifeon2whls
12-03-2012, 10:51 AM
Best of luck to you guys getting rid of these ridiculous laws.

Getting rid of? LOL doing our best to try and prevent any new ones!

stix213
12-03-2012, 11:21 AM
My rifle is indeed a Bushmaster XM15. I guess that rules out any possibility of taking my rifle through California.

Thanks for the info.



Thanks for the info. The Bushmaster XM15 is indeed banned by name.

Best of luck to you guys getting rid of these ridiculous laws.

There is already a case from the Calguns Foundation to get rid of this law. There's a good team of people trying their best, and lots of people donating.

mej16489
12-03-2012, 11:45 AM
-DO NOT CROSS INTO CA WITH HICAP MAGAZINES (unless you did
own/acquire/possess them, within CA, before 1/1/2000)


Bolded clarification above.

bwiese
12-03-2012, 11:55 AM
Bolded clarification above.


Thank you. Of course I meant that but was typing fast.

My post above has been corrected.

readysetgo
12-03-2012, 12:04 PM
Isn't there federal "safe passage" laws? I feel like I recall reading about it. :shrug:

bwiese
12-03-2012, 12:08 PM
Isn't there federal "safe passage" laws? I feel like I recall reading about it. :shrug:

They exist. They are at best useful for criminal defense/appeal. Expec the state (via local DA) to fully prosecute.

Many people get jailed in NY and NJ, in fact, for legit interstate safe transit.

You should in no way rely on this - expect to be jailed, pay bail and attorney's fees, etc.

Curley Red
12-03-2012, 12:08 PM
BulletButton maglocks do NOT override 'banned-by-name' AW status of original Roberti Roos and Kasler-listed guns.


Yep, Dukemejian really screwed us on that one. And everyone is worried about the democrats. Who needs enemies when you have friends like 'ol Duke?

bwiese
12-03-2012, 12:11 PM
Yep, Dukemejian really screwed us on that one. And everyone is worried about the democrats. Who needs enemies when you have friends like 'ol Duke?

Understand several Reeps in the Leg drove it too - sucking up to law enforcement.

readysetgo
12-03-2012, 12:26 PM
They exist. They are at best useful for criminal defense/appeal. Expec the state (via local DA) to fully prosecute.

Many people get jailed in NY and NJ, in fact, for legit interstate safe transit.

You should in no way rely on this - expect to be jailed, pay bail and attorney's fees, etc.

Understood. Agreed not to rely on. For reference, you happen to know the codes?

Maestro Pistolero
12-03-2012, 12:32 PM
Isn't there federal "safe passage" laws? I feel like I recall reading about it. :shrug:

The Fireams Owners Protection Act, FOPA, does not cover individuals making overnight stops in areas where their firearms are prohibited.

Even if FOPA were to cover all the issues presented here including the CA AWB and full capacity magazines (which is debatable and extremely risky) This would foreclose FOPA protection:
I will be driving from New York to Washington state and will be passing through California and staying a few days in San Francisco and Los Angeles.

FOPA only protects individuals traveling DIRECTLY from a place that they may legally possess said weapon, to a destination where they may also legally possess it, WITH NO UNNECESSARY STOPS. Presumably gas and restroom stops would be necessary, and POSSIBLY a meal stop if one's itinerary demanded it while on "foreign" soil. Some states arrest them all and let the courts sort them out at great expense and risk to one's pocket book and freedom.

readysetgo
12-03-2012, 12:55 PM
The Fireams Owners Protection Act, FOPA, does not cover individuals making overnight stops in areas where their firearms are prohibited.

Even if FOPA were to cover all the issues presented here including the CA AWB and full capacity magazines (which is debatable and extremely risky) This would foreclose FOPA protection:


FOPA only protects individuals traveling DIRECTLY from a place that they may legally possess said weapon, to a destination where they may also legally possess it, WITH NO UNNECESSARY STOPS. Presumably gas and restroom stops would be necessary, and POSSIBLY a meal stop if one's itinerary demanded it while on "foreign" soil. Some states arrest them all and let the courts sort them out at great expense and risk to one's pocket book and freedom.

FOPA... thank you. Seems to me at first stopping overnight to rest etc should be included. Anyway I digress, haven't even read up on it yet (I will though).

So the point is don't FOPA this up and come to our state with your dangerous weapons! :43:

Burbur
12-03-2012, 3:11 PM
We don't want you or your dirty tourist money. Go around CA [/sarcasm]

gunsmith
12-03-2012, 4:42 PM
They exist. They are at best useful for criminal defense/appeal. Expec the state (via local DA) to fully prosecute.

Many people get jailed in NY and NJ, in fact, for legit interstate safe transit.

You should in no way rely on this - expect to be jailed, pay bail and attorney's fees, etc.

yup, my brother was NYPD for a long time, now in a different PD.
Until I told him about FOPA he had never heard of it, anyone without a NY permit is going to be arrested, and like the OP said, you can have a permit in NY State yet still get arrested in NYC.

Hopefully we will survive the Obama SCOTUS picks and get rid of these laws.
It needs to be done sooner rather then later.

Quiet
12-04-2012, 6:05 AM
FOPA only protects individuals traveling DIRECTLY from a place that they may legally possess said weapon, to a destination where they may also legally possess it, WITH NO UNNECESSARY STOPS. Presumably gas and restroom stops would be necessary, and POSSIBLY a meal stop if one's itinerary demanded it while on "foreign" soil. Some states arrest them all and let the courts sort them out at great expense and risk to one's pocket book and freedom.

:iagree:

Also, the Second Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that the FOPA is an affirmative defense to be used at trial (after you are arrested, jailed & property conifscated) and does not protect you from being arrested for violating a state firearm law.

Mesa Tactical
12-04-2012, 8:40 AM
So was FOPA really worth machine guns being banned forever?

ccmc
12-04-2012, 8:53 AM
They exist. They are at best useful for criminal defense/appeal. Expec the state (via local DA) to fully prosecute.

Many people get jailed in NY and NJ, in fact, for legit interstate safe transit.

You should in no way rely on this - expect to be jailed, pay bail and attorney's fees, etc.

I've heard of the cases where people get arrested at NYC are airports, but are there really many cases of people getting arrested/jailed while transitting NY and NJ by car?

Also interesting to note that NY seems to be less restrictive with AR-15 ownership than CA.

Moonshine
12-04-2012, 1:55 PM
Remember, a stripped Bushmaster XM-15 lower is FAR more dangerous than an entire rifle built on a Pametto State Armory lower! Welcome to the wonderful logic of California's ban! NY rifles may not be allowed to have threaded barrels, collapsible stocks, or bayonet lugs, but at least you can run a detachable magazine without being in ergonomic hell :)!

bwiese
12-04-2012, 3:09 PM
So was FOPA really worth machine guns being banned forever?

Yes and no.

- when FOPA eventually gets fleshed out post-Heller into less of a
defense and more of a restriction on state action, it will be what its
creators wanted.

- the MG stuff was a last minute tag-on. The overarching putative
benefits were what got the signature.

- I don't think FOPA vs MGs situation would happen now. Remember
what happened to first cut of PLCAA? Feinstein, Kennedy and others
tried to sneak in various antigun aspects - AWB renewal & "nonhunting
ammo" bans - and these 'poison pill' amendments were deftly removed
before PLCAA could go up the ladder (or it would be killed off and
restarted).

Bruce
12-04-2012, 9:16 PM
"goofythekiller" OP? Do you really think that user name is appropriate on a gun forum, and asking questions abiut AW's? The other side does read this board.

Davidwhitewolf
12-05-2012, 4:02 PM
I've heard of the cases where people get arrested at NYC are airports, but are there really many cases of people getting arrested/jailed while transitting NY and NJ by car?

I can't speak as to cases, but I will point out that in terms of risk, out-of-state drivers may be unaware that California has had its very own "Checkpoint Charlie" Border Protection Stations at or near the Oregon, Nevada, etc. borders for decades now, through which all vehicles must pass. (I'm told CHP will pull over vehicles on back roads that they suspect avoided going through a checkpoint station.) Friendly inspectors generally wave folks through, or ask with a smile "do you have any fruit in the vehicle?" (to prevent fruit fly importation) BUT if they single you out for inspection, which is at their sole discretion, your whole vehicle's contents go on the pavement and are thoroughly probed. I saw it as a kid and it's not a happy time. And the CHP is right there to enforce/confiscate/arrest.

Just as you don't simply walk into Mordor, you don't drive up to a California inspection station with an AW in your vehicle. My 2 cents.

ccmc
12-06-2012, 7:12 AM
I can't speak as to cases, but I will point out that in terms of risk, out-of-state drivers may be unaware that California has had its very own "Checkpoint Charlie" Border Protection Stations at or near the Oregon, Nevada, etc. borders for decades now, through which all vehicles must pass. (I'm told CHP will pull over vehicles on back roads that they suspect avoided going through a checkpoint station.) Friendly inspectors generally wave folks through, or ask with a smile "do you have any fruit in the vehicle?" (to prevent fruit fly importation) BUT if they single you out for inspection, which is at their sole discretion, your whole vehicle's contents go on the pavement and are thoroughly probed. I saw it as a kid and it's not a happy time. And the CHP is right there to enforce/confiscate/arrest.

Just as you don't simply walk into Mordor, you don't drive up to a California inspection station with an AW in your vehicle. My 2 cents.

I didn't know they were allowed to do that - sounds like a 4A violation, but then again CA violates the 2A more egregiously than most states so I guess it's no surprise that other parts of the Bill of Rights are fair game as well.