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View Full Version : Can Gunsmith Work on R.A.W. ?


eltee
12-03-2012, 9:24 AM
In California, can an FFL / Gunsmith work on a legal, Registered Assault Weapon or must the shop be licensed as a special weapon shop per D.O.J.? I have a couple of RAWs and wondered where I could take them if I needed work.

Search was not my friend, I tried. ;)

hawk1
12-03-2012, 9:40 AM
Keep in mind, if they are small jobs, you can stay with them to negate any concerns. That's if the gunsmith can accommodate.

bwiese
12-03-2012, 9:45 AM
If the owner (if he weren't the smith himself) gives express permission to come in the shop with a RAW, fine - and owner must stay with gun.

Now do note a Category 3 RAW is only a RAW by configured features suite -and not model (and not via the registration). The reg only allows it to be an AW. If such a gun is converted to a non-RAW configuration, it can be treated/transported like a normal gun.

newbee1111
12-03-2012, 11:55 AM
If you are located in Socal this shop has an assault weapon permit so you could leave your RAW there.

http://www.egsw.com/gunsmith/ar_repair.htm

Quiet
12-03-2012, 2:50 PM
If the RAW is being shipped or the owner is not present the entire time, then the gunsmith needs an assault weapons permit.

If the owner is present the entire time the RAW is with the gunsmith, then the gunsmith does not need an assault weapons permit.

bwiese
12-03-2012, 3:18 PM
If the RAW is being shipped or the owner is not present the entire time, then the gunsmith needs an assault weapons permit.

If the owner is present the entire time the RAW is with the gunsmith, then the gunsmith does not need an assault weapons permit.


Yup. Just to add that Cat 3 RAWs converted to non-AW status (i.e., BB or features removal/changes) are not AWs during that period, and can be worked on by a non-AW Permittee.

a1c
12-03-2012, 4:10 PM
Yup. Just to add that Cat 3 RAWs converted to non-AW status (i.e., BB or features removal/changes) are not AWs during that period, and can be worked on by a non-AW Permittee.

Wow, I had no idea. So does that mean I can take my wife's RAW AR out without her being present if I just add a BB to it?

bwiese
12-03-2012, 4:33 PM
Wow, I had no idea. So does that mean I can take my wife's RAW AR out without her being present if I just add a BB to it?

Yes and no.

Any traffic stop may result in a cop running numbers and thinking "reg'd AW == AW regardless".

We at CGF would love to defend a non-Cat3-nonAW reg'd AW matter, but - depending on locale and O.R./
book'n'lelease policies, DA feelings and bail schedules) - you might have a weekend in the cooler eating
some CupO'Noodles wearing orange.

But for gunshop work, fine (as long as the FFL understands). Nobody busts AW matters these days in gunshops
except true real AWs/illegal gun drama (i.e, way-outta-whack-FFL), and this would 99.99% be an adminstrative
(noncriminal) matter if DOJ BoF agent walked into that gunsmith. The likelihood would be during confusion during
CA DOJ audit session (or, far less likely, an ATF dude not understanding and then referring to DOJ and misstating
something that ends up getting DOJ all hot'n'bothered, incorrectly. We've dealt with that before specifically, and
DOJ quickly returned the dude's guns.)

And if that happened CGF would be all over DOJ with hundreds if not thousands of pages of DOJ prior publications,
statements/opinions, websites, etc. I'm fairly confident NRA/CRPA legal folks would like to offer its statements &
supporting materials too in such a case ;-) esp since I know they have a trove of them.

For me and other RAW owners?? ...

.... I have a bunch of RAWs. Some of my RAWs - including a coupla OLL ARs - are Cat 3 guns (not Cat 1/2 "named"
guns).

This means I can put BulletButton maglocks on them and override them with a red magnetic BulletButton override
(ARTacMag/Magmagnet "felony button" sold in misrepresented fashion at gunshows and which will get - and has
gotten noobs in trouble.

What this does, however, is allow the Cat 3 reg'd AW to be *transported* legally as a nonAW (due to BulletButton
maglock imparting non-AW status - as long as 30" OAL and under-10-rd mag used). But at the range, the gun in
question is legally allowed - hell, it's a reg'd AW!! - to run detachable and hicap magazines, so the magnetic BB
override's legally usable in such situations [this is one of the other 'rare instances' where BB magnetic override is
legal to use in California].

Avoidance of AW 'transport' restrictions allows more flexible travel and avoidance of 'specific destination' matters and
passes the 'smell test' a bit better than, say, an AW just broken in two for non-AW transport.

a1c
12-03-2012, 5:00 PM
Understood. Thanks for the clarification.

eltee
12-03-2012, 10:58 PM
Thanks, all, for the info.

ar15barrels
12-03-2012, 11:16 PM
I do all sorts of work on all types of AR's "while you wait"...

Scott Connors
12-04-2012, 3:57 PM
Keep in mind that, if the RAW has both upper and lower receivers (AR, FAL), you can leave whichever half does not bear the serial number with the gunsmith while retaining possession of the half that is legally considered to be the firearm. That means barrel, handguard, or muzzle device work on the AR's upper (lower is serialized), or repairs and/or trigger/buttstock work on FAL (upper is serialized).

bwiese
12-04-2012, 5:12 PM
Keep in mind that, if the RAW has both upper and lower receivers (AR, FAL), you can leave whichever half does not bear the serial number with the gunsmith while retaining possession of the half that is legally considered to be the firearm. That means barrel, handguard, or muzzle device work on the AR's upper (lower is serialized), or repairs and/or trigger/buttstock work on FAL (upper is serialized).

Excellent point I forgot to mention. Thanks for bringing it up.

This actually will vary by gun architecture; some guns may not be legally safely reduced to a non-AW entity.

But esp on ARs - the upper usually does all the work and/or needs the gunsmithing; the lowers usu have relatively
few problems that can't be solved directly by individuals (replacing crap gunshow FCG parts with better ones isn't
too hard).

Moonshine
12-04-2012, 5:13 PM
I'm just throwing this out there but if the problem wasn't receiver related and the gun could be diassembled (e.g. Barrel problem on AR-15) wouldn't it be possible to remove the problem parts from the offending recieiver so you didn't need an AW permit smith?

bwiese
12-04-2012, 5:14 PM
I do all sorts of work on all types of AR's "while you wait"...

Randall, you got a drive-thru? That would be SO cool....

Hdawg
12-04-2012, 8:43 PM
I have a Category two RAW. Can I send it to a gunsmith in another state for work?

bwiese
12-05-2012, 12:28 AM
I have a Category two RAW. Can I send it to a gunsmith in another state for work?

This means the gun is an AR or AK variant 'by name'.



You cannot ship/receive the RAW out of CA yourself and must instead use the intermediary $services$ of a CA
FFL who also holds a valid CA AW Permit.
.
You CAN drive out/fly out with your RAW and deliver it to/pick it back up from the out-of-state FFL gunsmith.
.
You can also 'split the deal' - drive to your nearest out-of-state location (Reno, or in AZ etc.) and ship the gun
UPS to your FFL from there.

You'd also have it shipped back to a PO Box/ trusted Mailboxes USA place in a city outside CA, and then pick it up
there when it's ready and reenter CA.
.
Remember that while in CA, (reg'd) AWs must be transported locked up & unloaded, and transportd directly between
specific authorized destinations only.

"Out of state" and "coming back home" are indeed valid destinations.
.
If the gun is an AR, just send the upper. Even a trained monkey like myself can build, work on, or reinstall parts on
an AR lower: I've even built ARs in bed a decade or so ago (um, I was single then ;-)

ar15barrels
12-05-2012, 1:13 AM
Randall, you got a drive-thru? That would be SO cool....

You can back into my driveway and drive out when the work is done...

Hdawg
12-05-2012, 9:54 AM
This means the gun is an AR or AK variant 'by name'.



You cannot ship/receive the RAW out of CA yourself and must instead use the intermediary $services$ of a CA
FFL who also holds a valid CA AW Permit.
.
You CAN drive out/fly out with your RAW and deliver it to/pick it back up from the out-of-state FFL gunsmith.
.
You can also 'split the deal' - drive to your nearest out-of-state location (Reno, or in AZ etc.) and ship the gun
UPS to your FFL from there.

You'd also have it shipped back to a PO Box/ trusted Mailboxes USA place in a city outside CA, and then pick it up
there when it's ready and reenter CA.
.
Remember that while in CA, (reg'd) AWs must be transported locked up & unloaded, and transportd directly between
specific authorized destinations only.

"Out of state" and "coming back home" are indeed valid destinations.
.

Thank you for the info.



If the gun is an AR, just send the upper. Even a trained monkey like myself can build, work on, or reinstall parts on
an AR lower: I've even built ARs in bed a decade or so ago (um, I was single then ;-)

Insert heroic attempt to not make any comments about being single with an AR in bed here. :eek:

Gunsmith Dan
12-06-2012, 1:31 AM
FYI if you have a favorite gunsmith and they are willing to apply for a AWP you can provide them with a letter stating you have a RAW and wish to have them regularly service your RAW, which should help them get a AWP.