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View Full Version : registering 50+ year old guns after Jan 1 2014


taiwon
12-02-2012, 11:52 PM
im not very familiar with the "relic gun" thing and ive never purchased one before so please answer some questions i have. to my understanding, you do not have to do any paperwork for guns that are 50+ years old because the ATF or something doesnt care about regulating guns that are that old. you can do face-to-face cash transactions and there is no 10 day waiting period. well, once the jan 1 2014 long gun registrations hits, how is the state going to enforce this on relics if nobody did paperwork on these guns prior? is the state using the honor system here or something? please school me on the issue

Vlad 11
12-03-2012, 12:04 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=399849

taiwon
12-03-2012, 12:22 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=399849

thanks ill read this

Librarian
12-03-2012, 12:35 AM
But short answer, that only affects transfers after Jan 1, 2014 - guns that you keep are not affected.

taiwon
12-03-2012, 12:55 AM
But short answer, that only affects transfers after Jan 1, 2014 - guns that you keep are not affected.

im fully aware of this. im wondering how the state will enforce this registration on relics afterwards. for instance, right now its legal for two average joes to sell each other a 50+ year old side by side shotgun in his living room or something. how will the state enforce this once 2014 hits? it would seem to me that bob would still be able to sell his 50+ year old shotgun to sam in his living room without anyone knowing. thats why im wondering if the state is depending on the honor system or something.

phrogg111
12-03-2012, 3:38 AM
im fully aware of this. im wondering how the state will enforce this registration on relics afterwards. for instance, right now its legal for two average joes to sell each other a 50+ year old side by side shotgun in his living room or something. how will the state enforce this once 2014 hits? it would seem to me that bob would still be able to sell his 50+ year old shotgun to sam in his living room without anyone knowing. thats why im wondering if the state is depending on the honor system or something.

The state is depending on the honor system.

Long guns are the only ones affected - most handguns here were already required to be registered.

NotEnufGarage
12-03-2012, 4:38 AM
im fully aware of this. im wondering how the state will enforce this registration on relics afterwards. for instance, right now its legal for two average joes to sell each other a 50+ year old side by side shotgun in his living room or something. how will the state enforce this once 2014 hits? it would seem to me that bob would still be able to sell his 50+ year old shotgun to sam in his living room without anyone knowing. thats why im wondering if the state is depending on the honor system or something.

The state is depending on the honor system.

Long guns are the only ones affected - most handguns here were already required to be registered.

You know how we keep harping on the fact that gun control laws only effect law abiding gun owners and not criminals? This is what they're counting on.

We're the law abiding gun owners we've been talking about.

If you don't want a paper trail on your 50+ yr old guns, keep them in the safe or closet and don't buy or sell any after Jan 1, 2014.

billmaykafer
12-03-2012, 4:43 AM
The state is depending on the honor system.

Long guns are the only ones affected - most handguns here were already required to be registered.

politicians and the honor system is a oxymoron. honest and politician do not go together.

john67elco
12-03-2012, 5:02 AM
I've been doing decent on gaining rifles to give my 3 year old and 5 month old with a noterized gift of sale. 2 12 gauges, 2 30-30's, 2 AKs, 2 AR builds from 80%, and 2-22's. This is going to be a hurtful year to my wallet in 2013. 2 Barrett's are going to kick my butt. Anyone know where I can get 2 SAW rebuild kits ;)

BillCA
12-03-2012, 5:03 AM
im fully aware of this. im wondering how the state will enforce this registration on relics afterwards. for instance, right now its legal for two average joes to sell each other a 50+ year old side by side shotgun in his living room or something. how will the state enforce this once 2014 hits? it would seem to me that bob would still be able to sell his 50+ year old shotgun to sam in his living room without anyone knowing. thats why im wondering if the state is depending on the honor system or something.

It's called indirect enforcement.

Once you establish a cutoff date for ownership of something like a long gun, after 8-10 years you can then pass another law that says you must us a registered long gun when hunting with a license. Other laws will be similar, like one that says if you have an unregistered gun in public (i.e. your front lawn vs. a car thief) police may seize it until you prove it was legally obtained (try that with great-granddad's 1903A3 passed down within the family).

Capybara
12-03-2012, 5:32 AM
This law is definitely the next step to confiscation, sad. But since we are law abiding gun owners, we must obey the laws, even when they are evil and pointless. I am sure that most of us will obey the gun laws up until some point in the future when we will have no choice but to give them up or break the law.

Quiet
12-03-2012, 5:56 AM
im fully aware of this. im wondering how the state will enforce this registration on relics afterwards. for instance, right now its legal for two average joes to sell each other a 50+ year old side by side shotgun in his living room or something. how will the state enforce this once 2014 hits? it would seem to me that bob would still be able to sell his 50+ year old shotgun to sam in his living room without anyone knowing. thats why im wondering if the state is depending on the honor system or something.

Same way that the state enforced the requirement to make private party transfers be done through a CA FFL dealer.

Prior to 01-01-1991, it was 100% CA legal for non-FFLs to do cash & carry type transfers on any type of firearm.

After 01-01-1991, all transfers, except for 50+ year old rifles/shotguns, had to be transfered through a FFL dealer.

Mesa Tactical
12-03-2012, 6:02 AM
im fully aware of this. im wondering how the state will enforce this registration on relics afterwards. for instance, right now its legal for two average joes to sell each other a 50+ year old side by side shotgun in his living room or something. how will the state enforce this once 2014 hits? it would seem to me that bob would still be able to sell his 50+ year old shotgun to sam in his living room without anyone knowing.

They would be breaking the law.

In the same way, I can sell Joe a revolver in my living room with no paperwork, right now. But I don't do it because it's illegal.

Librarian
12-03-2012, 10:16 AM
The state is depending on the honor system.

Right. It's the same mechanism that enforces not committing robberies, and making left turns only when the light allows. (I.e. punishment after, if detected and successfully prosecuted)

It's called indirect enforcement.

Once you establish a cutoff date for ownership of something like a long gun, after 8-10 years you can then pass another law that says you must us a registered long gun when hunting with a license. Other laws will be similar, like one that says if you have an unregistered gun in public (i.e. your front lawn vs. a car thief) police may seize it until you prove it was legally obtained (try that with great-granddad's 1903A3 passed down within the family).

Don't think 8-10 years would work; I'd guess roughly a hundred, so 2098 for handguns, 2114 for long guns. Guns are effectively 'durable goods', so the lifetime of the owner + a 'safety factor'. The last legal owner of an unregistered un-transferred handgun should have been an infant in 1997 whose family moved into the state after his/her parents gave the gun.

After 2098, it would be logical to conclude an unregistered handgun Failed To Follow The Rules at some point.

chris
12-03-2012, 2:34 PM
The state is depending on the honor system.

.

hahahahaha honor system with the crooks in this state.

Oceanbob
12-03-2012, 3:14 PM
http://i47.tinypic.com/fm2g4w.jpg

taiwon
12-03-2012, 4:59 PM
so from what im getting, since we are law abiding citizens, we will register our 50+ year old long guns even though there is literally no paper trial. ok :) horray for honesty!...

taiwon
12-03-2012, 5:02 PM
completely unrelated sidenote: how do you delete old threads? i have 2 that are pretty inactive and i would like to get rid of

bwiese
12-03-2012, 5:08 PM
so from what im getting, since we are law abiding citizens, we will register our 50+ year old long guns even though there is literally no paper trial. ok :) horray for honesty!...

Not quite..

- you do not have to register the guns YOU ALREADY OWN, even
though they may be unpapered.

- you only have to paper/DROS guns you acquire. Previously,
when you even bought a long gun at a CA FFL, there was a
background check done but no file/association retained of the
fact you got that rifle [unlike handguns].

GOEX FFF
12-03-2012, 5:10 PM
im fully aware of this. im wondering how the state will enforce this registration on relics afterwards. for instance, right now its legal for two average joes to sell each other a 50+ year old side by side shotgun in his living room or something. how will the state enforce this once 2014 hits? it would seem to me that bob would still be able to sell his 50+ year old shotgun to sam in his living room without anyone knowing. thats why im wondering if the state is depending on the honor system or something.

I think what you're missing is that come Jan 1st 2014, unless Sam has an 03 FFL AND a COE (Certificate of Eligibility) the transaction won't be legal, just like it wouldn't be with a modern long gun between two unlicensed individuals. After 2014, C&C on C&R long guns goes away unless the buyer has an 03+COE (keep in mid that ALL handguns, regardless of C&R or not, must still have to go through a DROS). After then the buyer makes his/her C&R Long gun purchase, they will be required to send in the $19.00 and a reg form to the DOJ on each long gun acquisition.

bohoki
12-03-2012, 5:12 PM
guns weren't required to have serials till 68 although many did many cheap ones did not

just wondering what registering a bunch of "NSN" is really going to accomplish