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View Full Version : Anti gun spin starting on Chauncey Bailey assassination


Steyr_223
08-02-2007, 7:53 PM
Anti gunners are out in force, time to counter on this blog.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/comments/view?f=/c/a/2007/08/02/BAGGCRBL8A6.DTL&o=15

(08-02) 14:05 PDT OAKLAND -- Chauncey Bailey, editor of the Oakland Post and a former reporter for the Oakland Tribune, was shot to death today on a downtown Oakland street in what police described as a targeted killing.

Bailey, 57, was shot just before 7:30 a.m. on 14th Street near Alice Street, police said. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

Witnesses said a lone gunman dressed in dark clothing approached Bailey, shot him twice and ran away. Oakland Fire Capt. Melinda Drayton said Bailey was shot first in the back and then once in the head.

Police spokesman Roland Holmgren said investigators believe the shooting was an assassination-style hit.

.223
08-02-2007, 8:32 PM
This is madness


THIS IS SPARTAAAA! :chris:

Draven
08-02-2007, 8:48 PM
Because everyone knows that if citizens can't legally buy guns then criminals won't have them- Just look at England! Its a gun-crime-free paradise, right???

MrEd
08-02-2007, 9:21 PM
Oh my god Oh my god , a criminal did NOT respect local gun laws ? the SKY is Falling

SemiAutoSam
08-02-2007, 9:27 PM
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/300-3.gif

THIS IS SPARTAAAA! :chris:

CCWFacts
08-02-2007, 9:27 PM
Yeah, it's not like hitmen have any problem getting a hold of guns in Russia, Jamaica, and a bunch of other places with total gun bans.

gazzavc
08-02-2007, 9:28 PM
Because everyone knows that if citizens can't legally buy guns then criminals won't have them- Just look at England! Its a gun-crime-free paradise, right???

No its a f*&^%$# disgrace whats happened over there. I grew up and lived in London and i'm thouroughly ashamed at what its become. Violent crime is going through the roof. although the only time it ever hits the papers is when the victim is muslim. The fact that there are gangs of the bas%#@ds roaming about assaulting people never even makes the papers. Its a disgrace. I'm proud to be a US citizen now.

G

Steyr_223
08-02-2007, 9:36 PM
"Yeah, it's not like hitmen have any problem getting a hold of guns in Russia, Jamaica, and a bunch of other places with total gun bans."

Yep, don't forget Japan. Iccho Itoh mayor of Nagasaki was shot on April 17 ,2007 by a gangster and later died. Itoh was the second mayor of Nagasaki to be shot; his immediate predecessor Hitoshi Motoshima, was shot in 1990, but survived.

So much for a total gun ban.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iccho_Itoh

http://english.people.com.cn/200704/18/images/0417_D25.jpg

BigDogatPlay
08-02-2007, 11:23 PM
While the anti-gun reaction to this crime is troubling, what is worse to me is that the dude got shot in the first place. Is Oakland turning into Medellin?

Makes one wonder just what Mr. Bailey was planning on printing.

Steyr_223
08-02-2007, 11:30 PM
"Makes one wonder just what Mr. Bailey was planning on printing."

I read on a Blog, he was critical of the Bey family, they run a Nation of Islam type group in Oakland.

Steyr_223
08-03-2007, 7:59 AM
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/08/03/BAGVJRCCPR7.DTL&tsp=1



(08-03) 08:30 PDT OAKLAND -- Police, SWAT teams and bomb units from throughout Alameda County raided a Black Muslim bakery and three related locations in North Oakland this morning and detained more than a dozen suspects, police said.

The people are being held in connection with murder, kidnapping, assault and robbery investigations, Assistant Police Chief Howard Jordan said. San Pablo Avenue was cordoned off for several blocks near the bakery at 5832 San Pablo Ave.

Police said the raids are part of an ongoing probe of businesses related to Black Muslim leader Yusef Bey, who died in October 1993. The investigations date back more than a year.

It was not immediately clear whether the raids are directly connected to the Thursday slaying of Oakland Post editor Chauncey Bailey, who was investigating the bakery and its related businesses, they said.

The bakery and a related security firm have been under police scrutiny in the past. Several members of the group, which is not affiliated with the Nation of Islam, currently are charged with crimes related to the vandalism of two West Oakland liquor stores in 2005.

The Brit
08-03-2007, 9:18 AM
No its a f*&^%$# disgrace whats happened over there. I grew up and lived in London and i'm thouroughly ashamed at what its become. Violent crime is going through the roof. although the only time it ever hits the papers is when the victim is muslim. The fact that there are gangs of the bas%#@ds roaming about assaulting people never even makes the papers. Its a disgrace. I'm proud to be a US citizen now.

G

Amen, brother.

6172crew
08-03-2007, 10:09 AM
I used to drive by the muslim bakery everyday and i have to say "its one wacky crowd", they are all dressed in black and just sit out front watching the traffic drive by.

emc002
08-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Yeah, it's not like hitmen have any problem getting a hold of guns in Russia, Jamaica, and a bunch of other places with total gun bans.

Or Washington D.C.!:rolleyes:

Glock22Fan
08-03-2007, 10:24 AM
No its a f*&^%$# disgrace whats happened over there. I grew up and lived in London and i'm thouroughly ashamed at what its become. Violent crime is going through the roof. although the only time it ever hits the papers is when the victim is muslim. The fact that there are gangs of the bas%#@ds roaming about assaulting people never even makes the papers. Its a disgrace. I'm proud to be a US citizen now.

G


+1 from this ex-Brit, now U.S. Citizen.

The British police have blanket instuctions not to bother to investigate a whole slew of crimes, so they can concentrate on violence, and they are still losing the fight.

There was a British newspaper report (the Sun) last week that had two thieves fined 80 UKP each for robbing a hardware store, and fined the store owner 250 UKP for assault because he attempted to stop them. http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007300149,00.html

stag1500
08-03-2007, 10:40 AM
Don't forget that in Great Britain self-defense is considered an insult to the government because you're saying that they are incapable of keeping the peace. What a sick country!

supersonic
08-03-2007, 11:06 AM
If Mr. Bailey didn't live in an area (ANYWHERE in n. Kali) where the likelihood of being granted a CCW was about the same as thinking you have kidney stones- then actually passing them and they turn out to be a total of 10lbs. of pure gold & platinum.............................his family might still be able to hug & kiss him after work tonight. And the sub-human piece of fecal matter might have his head slightly propped up on a stainless steel table @ Oakland's Medical Examiner's Y-Cut room.....................I hope the victim didn't have minor children...:no:
S.S.:43:

Ten Rounder
08-03-2007, 11:12 AM
Last evening I saw the "ratty men in suits and bow ties" crowd at the public market in Eville. Real creepy. I had always felt safe here before, but not anymore. Who wears a suit with a bow tie on a thursday evening?

.223
08-03-2007, 11:46 AM
Who wears a suit with a bow tie on a thursday evening?

http://www.bitetv.ca/blog/archives/happy%20pee%20wee.jpg

Ten Rounder
08-03-2007, 12:15 PM
http://www.bitetv.ca/blog/archives/happy%20pee%20wee.jpg

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Now change the locall to Eville and N Oaktown and even that sappy face and it is like a gang uniform. I lived and worked in the area for about fifteen years and it is not the same. More like approaching a pre war zone.

Exiledviking
08-03-2007, 6:27 PM
No its a f*&^%$# disgrace whats happened over there. I grew up and lived in London and i'm thouroughly ashamed at what its become. Violent crime is going through the roof. although the only time it ever hits the papers is when the victim is muslim. The fact that there are gangs of the bas%#@ds roaming about assaulting people never even makes the papers. Its a disgrace. I'm proud to be a US citizen now.

I grew up in Sweden and they are having the very same kind of trouble.
There are parts of certain southern cities the cops won't go into because of the assaults on the cops.
We should look at what is going on in Europe and try to learn from it.

I am VERY proud to be a US Citizen as well.

MedSpec65
08-03-2007, 6:50 PM
I was around in the sixties when Huey was running the Panthers and his psycho secretary Elaine Brown was having people offed for looking at her sideways. I was at Kepler's Bookstore in Menlo Park the day Huey showed up with Bobby Hutton and Bobby Seale and challenged a San Mateo County Sheriff's deputy to draw his gun. These modern equivalents, complete with full-length leather coats and armed to the teeth are nothing new to Oakland LEO's. They came down on this whack Bey with half a ton of bricks and I hope the other two and a half follow that train in short order. I'm sick of the out-of -control lawlessness in Oakland and it's hate-mongers like these throwbacks that are polluting the minds of the kids that are dying everyday.

Paladin
08-03-2007, 9:18 PM
If Mr. Bailey didn't live in an area (ANYWHERE in n. Kali) where the likelihood of being granted a CCW was about the same as thinking you have kidney stones- then actually passing them and they turn out to be a total of 10lbs. of pure gold & platinum.............................his family might still be able to hug & kiss him after work tonight. And the sub-human piece of fecal matter might have his head slightly propped up on a stainless steel table @ Oakland's Medical Examiner's Y-Cut room.....................I hope the victim didn't have minor children...:no:
S.S.:43:Look on the bright side: he's now been the victim of a serious crime against his person and MIGHT have a chance of getting a CCW in Alameda county from Sheriff Aherns.

Oops! I forgot. It's too late, he's dead. :mad:

Gee, I'm beginning to think we should pass on that problem to the sheriff -- the first crime you're a victim of may be your last. What do you think, will Aherns will change his policy and accept simple "self-defense" as Good Cause now? :rolleyes:

Crazed_SS
08-03-2007, 9:54 PM
Im sorry, but how is a concealed firearm gonna protect you against a hitman?

I dont know exactly how this editor was killed, but if someone gets the drop on you and shoots you, it wont matter if you have a M4 concealed under your jacket because you'd be dead before you even got a chance to draw.

robairto
08-03-2007, 10:18 PM
Black muslim extremists in the the USA? It can't be. No racial overtones other than there are non anglos that are more racist than most folks care to admit to. I was threatened to be killed by some adult black males when I was 11 because I was in "their world". My response was to run and tell my wrestling coach who was a black high schooler who subsequently went out looking for the trouble makers. The anti American crowds in urban America are muck rakers and serve more harm than good to their communities. There is very little balance in the information getting to the urban ghetto youth other than drugs;gangs;disinfranchisedment; and street credibility. Prisons are easier to build and maintain than dealing with folks that don't assimilate. It's cruel and unfortunate but it is what our society has chosen to do. The so called "gangsta" life style for the degenerates is a precursor to prison stripes.
Just my .02. as I hate to see well intended people lose their lives in communities that need clarity and objectivity from their leaders.

CCWFacts
08-03-2007, 10:25 PM
I used to drive by the muslim bakery everyday and i have to say "its one wacky crowd", they are all dressed in black and just sit out front watching the traffic drive by.

Wacky crowd, I agree, but good bean pies and burgers!

But seriously, they always had the aura of being a gang or thugs or something. Looks like there's something to that aura.

CitaDeL
08-03-2007, 10:26 PM
Im sorry, but how is a concealed firearm gonna protect you against a hitman?

I dont know exactly how this editor was killed, but if someone gets the drop on you and shoots you, it wont matter if you have a M4 concealed under your jacket because you'd be dead before you even got a chance to draw.

How is a concealed firearm gonna protect you against a hitman?

Man- youre right. And it has the same effect for number of protections...

How is a armed body guard gonna protect you against a hitman?
How is a peace officer gonna protect you against a hitman?
How is a bullet proof vest gonna protect you against a hitman?
How is 'duck and cover' gonna protect you against a hitman?

Really, there are no absolutes... but given the reality that nothing is perfect or linear- having the tools to defend yourself increases the chance you might survive even an attack by an 'hitman' in broad daylight, no matter how slim the odds are.

Have the tools, use them, even if you dont think you have a chance.



(Man, with pro-gunners like these, who needs HCI?)

CCWFacts
08-03-2007, 10:31 PM
Im sorry, but how is a concealed firearm gonna protect you against a hitman?

I dont know exactly how this editor was killed, but if someone gets the drop on you and shoots you, it wont matter if you have a M4 concealed under your jacket because you'd be dead before you even got a chance to draw.

Not 100% true. Gaston Glock got ambushed by a hitman. Ok, the hitman was French military, and we already know who wins when Austrians and French get into a fight... but anyway, this guy had the drop on Herr Glock, and Herr Glock was already old at this time, and Herr Glock fought him off. Going back to the French thing... one would think that a hitman would always use a gun, but that guy was using a hammer, so that worked in the Herr's favor. One would also think that a man like Herr Glock would be packing one of his own pistols (CCW exists in Austria, Glock could have gotten it), but no, he was unarmed. And he still won.

So, these situations go down in all kinds of ways. If it really is a shot out of the blue, then there isn't a thing you can do about it, but usually, there is at least an intuition-level warning.

Glock22Fan
08-03-2007, 11:08 PM
Im sorry, but how is a concealed firearm gonna protect you against a hitman?

I dont know exactly how this editor was killed, but if someone gets the drop on you and shoots you, it wont matter if you have a M4 concealed under your jacket because you'd be dead before you even got a chance to draw.

Carrying (for people with the right mindset and training) is a "Heads I win, tails you lose" situation. Can the coin sometimes come down upright in a crack? Sure, but the chance of getting whacked by a hitman doesn't invalidate the argument.


"But I might not get chance to use my gun" isn't much of an excuse; if you don't carry one, you certainly won't get chance to use it.

bulgron
08-04-2007, 1:29 AM
Im sorry, but how is a concealed firearm gonna protect you against a hitman?



The thing about wide-spread CCW is that is makes the hitmen have to move much more carefully. Think about a city street where virtually anyone walking by can have a hidden firearm, then think about whether a hitman is really going to risk shooting someone in broad daylight on that street. Seems more and more unlikely as more and more people become armed, doesn't it?

Crazed_SS
08-04-2007, 7:21 AM
The thing about wide-spread CCW is that is makes the hitmen have to move much more carefully. Think about a city street where virtually anyone walking by can have a hidden firearm, then think about whether a hitman is really going to risk shooting someone in broad daylight on that street. Seems more and more unlikely as more and more people become armed, doesn't it?

Anyone could have a gun anytime right now. Nothing's stopping me from stuffing a P220 in my waistband and walking around the town. Maybe it's because I live in the city, but when I'm out and about, I always assume there are people carrying guns.

I understand how a firearm can give might even the playing field a bit, but it is not a magical life-saving talisman. If someone's determined to kill you in a planned hit, having your own gun probably isnt going to save you unless you get lucky and the worst hitman in the world comes at you with a hammer.

You guys are complaining about others putting a anti-gun spin on this murder, and then turn around do the same thing by trying to put a pro-gun spin on it. He's not dead due to lack of carrying a firearm and he's not dead due to the murder possessing a firearm. It's not a gun issue.

M. Sage
08-04-2007, 12:09 PM
Anyone could have a gun anytime right now. Nothing's stopping me from stuffing a P220 in my waistband and walking around the town.

Sure there is: the fact that you can get in trouble for it. You and I have more to lose from doing that than the average thug does.

The people likely to come to someone's assistance, the law-abiding, are the ones who won't carry now because of the fact that it's illegal to without a permit. Sometimes, though.. I wonder how far we can let it go....

Look at it this way: at least he COULD have had a chance with CCW (especially with some training, too.) As it was, he was like a lamb to the slaughter. No chance at all.

Pvt. Cowboy
08-04-2007, 12:58 PM
Im sorry, but how is a concealed firearm gonna protect you against a hitman?

Very simple.

Any place that you can get a concealed firearm permit, there's probably no hit men to speak of anyway.

supersonic
08-05-2007, 5:03 AM
Look on the bright side: he's now been the victim of a serious crime against his person and MIGHT have a chance of getting a CCW in Alameda county from Sheriff Aherns.

Oops! I forgot. It's too late, he's dead. :mad:

Gee, I'm beginning to think we should pass on that problem to the sheriff -- the first crime you're a victim of may be your last. What do you think, will Aherns will change his policy and accept simple "self-defense" as Good Cause now? :rolleyes:

ALL these sheriff's (especially in alameda county & sacramento) are nothing but politically-motivated. Cops are supposed to stand for the safety of the innocent citizen. THESE guys- if they think they'll upset their rich (probably CCW holders themselves) politician "buddies," their attitude is essentially "F**k em' all, then."
I have a....friend...who carries when going into potentially dangerous situations anyway. SO, "F**k THEM!!!!!!!!!":D
S.S.:43:

supersonic
08-05-2007, 5:10 AM
Im sorry, but how is a concealed firearm gonna protect you against a hitman?

I dont know exactly how this editor was killed, but if someone gets the drop on you and shoots you, it wont matter if you have a M4 concealed under your jacket because you'd be dead before you even got a chance to draw.

PAY ATTENTION TO DETAILS!!!!!! NO one said it would have definitely protected him, but at least he would have had a chance. Who knows if it was a "pro" sanctioned hit? What, were you nearby and saw Jean Reno come out of the shadows & disappear in milliseconds before the body hit the ground????? Geeeezzzzz.
S.S.:43:

Experimentalist
08-05-2007, 9:02 AM
I understand how a firearm can give might even the playing field a bit, but it is not a magical life-saving talisman. If someone's determined to kill you in a planned hit, having your own gun probably isnt going to save you unless you get lucky and the worst hitman in the world comes at you with a hammer.

Crazed_SS, you bring up some useful points. If you'll indulge a cliche, "You are the weapon. Your gun is just a tool". In this context it means keeping your head up and becoming aware of potential threats before they become critical.

How does that apply to this case? I'm speculating here, because I don't have the full facts. But my *understanding* is that this hit man was wearing a disguise. I belive ski masks were recovered at the bakery? A person wearing a ski mask in a place where it isn't very cold should put a huge "blip" on everyone's radar. Further, I understand the hit man used a long gun. These can be concealed in long coats, etc. However, the combination of the mask, the long coat / guitar case / etc. *should* offer a degree of warning. And if this person has his eyes locked on me in that evil predatory gaze, I'm going to break the sound barrier running away. We all have learned to read body language to some degree. I recommend making it a second nature habit.

You guys are complaining about others putting a anti-gun spin on this murder, and then turn around do the same thing by trying to put a pro-gun spin on it. He's not dead due to lack of carrying a firearm and he's not dead due to the murder possessing a firearm. It's not a gun issue.


I have to agree with you.

I haven't read all of the coverage, and there probably are / will be coverage that strays into anti-gun territory.

But the post at the beginning of this thread sticks pretty close to the facts.

I think there are useful things to learn from this horrible event, and this post has value overall. I just do not see the anti-gun bias (yet).

Solidmch
08-05-2007, 7:13 PM
[QUOTE=supersonic;700357]PAY ATTENTION TO DETAILS!!!!!! NO one said it would have definitely protected him, but at least he would have had a chance. Who knows if it was a "pro" sanctioned hit? What, were you nearby and saw Jean Reno come out of the shadows & disappear in milliseconds before the body hit the ground????? Geeeezzzzz.
S.S.:43:[/QUOTE

Baily was shot in the back while walking and then three to the head while on the ground. )730 in the am blocks from the police department. I still think that we need more non felons with ccw's

MedSpec65
08-05-2007, 7:53 PM
:sleep1:Lots of ordinary civilians were armed during the depression when all the notorious gangsters were conducting running gunbattles in the streets of New York, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Cleveland and New Orleans. There were no laws prohibiting concealed carry in those days. The problem then is the same as it is today: The cowardice and complicity of local civic leaders.

supersonic
08-06-2007, 10:49 AM
Baily was shot in the back while walking and then three to the head while on the ground. )730 in the am blocks from the police department. I still think that we need more non felons with ccw's[/QUOTE]

CAN I get a "HELL, YEAH!!!????" No matter how many times in your life you have been wrong about something, THIS SURE AS F**K ISN'T ONE OF THEM!!!!!!!!!
S.S.:43: