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View Full Version : Are there BayArea classes for a Utah and Florida CCW?


ghettoshecky
08-02-2007, 5:40 PM
I'm sorry if this is dupe, but I really couldn't find the info. I'm looking for in the Search function. Is there a BayArea instructor doing classes for the Utah and Florida CCW? I would really like to get one before December.

ccwguy
08-02-2007, 7:04 PM
I'm sorry if this is dupe, but I really couldn't find the info. I'm looking for in the Search function. Is there a BayArea instructor doing classes for the Utah and Florida CCW? I would really like to get one before December.

Any NRA instructor can do your Florida. CHECK HERE..


http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/find.asp?State=CA&Type=

Utah is tough, they are 8 months behind issuing new ccw's. There is a lack of Instructors too.

If you would like a better deal... PM me for the Nevada, Utah, Fla ccw class we're doing Aug 18th and 19th in Reno. Better bang for your buck. One stop shop! I will be Instructing on this one, it's a big class, and the big gun-show in Reno that weekend!

E__WOK
08-02-2007, 7:07 PM
I don't know about Utah.

Here's the link for Florida. I was in the military so I didn't have to worry about the training requirement.

red bear
08-02-2007, 10:40 PM
Jim "Doc" Amentier did one recently in San Leandro, and did a couple at San Jose Gun Exchange this year. Do a search.

Gmountain
08-03-2007, 7:05 PM
Any NRA class will work for Florida.

tiki
08-03-2007, 8:55 PM
Any NRA class will work for Florida.

So will Hunter Safety.
Actually, you don't even have to take a class, an NRA instructor can sign off for you.

ccwguy
08-03-2007, 9:20 PM
So will Hunter Safety.
Actually, you don't even have to take a class, an NRA instructor can sign off for you.


It is crucial to know the state laws for which you are applying. A sign off will not do. Hunter safety has nothing to do with florida state penal codes. A sign off is very shady, any responsible Instructor would not dream of it, I don't sign off on CCW renewals even nor close friends. Getting a ccw without proper training is a deathwish or open warrant waiting for you to unknowingly screwup from ignorance.

Where can YOU or can't you carry in FLA? Can you use hollow point ammo? To name a couple q's.

Hunter safety is 14 hrs of BS California f&g law, not FLA penal codes.Fla class is 4 hours of law, not 14 of BS my friend.

Gmountain
08-04-2007, 5:44 AM
Where can YOU or can't you carry in FLA? Can you use hollow point ammo? To name a couple q's.



The NRA basic handgun course is generic and does not neccesarily cover those points but it still qualifies a person for a Florida CCW. The NRA course is fine.

These are all proof of acceptable firearms proficiency for a Florida CCW:
1. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;

2. Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;

3. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;

4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;

5. Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;

6. Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or a county or municipality of this state, unless such license has been revoked for cause; or

7. Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;

A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; or an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught said course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this paragraph; any person who conducts a course pursuant to subparagraph 2., subparagraph 3., or subparagraph 7., or who, as an instructor, attests to the completion of such courses, must maintain records certifying that he or she observed the student safely handle and discharge the firearm;

tiki
08-04-2007, 10:28 AM
1. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;

5. Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;

7. Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;


Thanks. I'm at work right now and I don't have my FL CCW application package here.

It is crucial to know the state laws for which you are applying.
A sign off will not do. Hunter safety has nothing to do with florida state penal codes. A sign off is very shady, any responsible Instructor would not dream of it, I don't sign off on CCW renewals even nor close friends. Getting a ccw without proper training is a deathwish or open warrant waiting for you to unknowingly screwup from ignorance.

Where can YOU or can't you carry in FLA? Can you use hollow point ammo? To name a couple q's.

Hunter safety is 14 hrs of BS California f&g law, not FLA penal codes.Fla class is 4 hours of law, not 14 of BS my friend.

Relax. I realize you teach the class and have a financial interest in getting people signed up. I'm not trying to cost you business. I think anyone that owns a firearm, let alone obtain a CCW, should be intimately familiar with the laws.
I wasn't advocating doing anything illegal or shady. I was answering a question. There is nothing wrong with getting the CCW by an approved means, like a hunter safety certificate, and then taking a course to learn more about the laws. The requirements listed are for OBTAINING the permit.

1) When you get the application package for the permit, you get a booklet that has the FL Statutes, and, they are available online. I read mine over multiple times, and, anyone that gets a CCW, from anywhere, should read the laws, every single one of them. Just like with OLLs, anyone who ventures down that path without reading and understanding every word in the law so that they can comply is foolish. Personally, when I lived in Florida I took the CCW class, taught by the Sherrifs dept, and, I did my course of fire on thier range. However, it has been a few years and I could not find my certificate. Since I already know the laws, and, I live 3000 miles away, I took a $20 Hunter Safety class here since that was applicable.

2) I probably should have qualified my "sign off" statement. I did not mean to imply that anyone find an instructor who will show up at the local McDonald's for $10 and sign off on a false affidavit. What I meant was an NRA Instructor, as opposed to someone's unqualified friend, can sign an affidavit that the person has suitable firearms safety training or has experience through organized competitions. It lists "Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor." So, I would argue that if one signs up for private or group lessons with an instructor and demonstrates SAFE handling of a firearm, an affidavit from that instructor would suffice.

If you read Florida's requirements, as I am sure you have, you will see that the intent is that people have safety training and not legal training. While I agree with you that it is crucial to know the state laws for which you are applying, that is not one of the requirements listed in the package.

3) You may feel that the California Hunter Safety class is 14hrs of B.S., and I would agree with you, but, it does satisfy the requirements of the Florida Department of Licensing & Consumer Services.

Fla class is 4 hours of law, not 14 of BS my friend.

If that's all it is, I would add some safety stuff, otherwise, it doesn't sound like it meets the requirements. ;)

JimAmentler
08-04-2007, 12:19 PM
What cities are you looking at? I have several classes that I do each month. NorCal and SoCal.

ccwguy
08-04-2007, 12:19 PM
Tiki:

As a victim of poor training when it came to qualifying for my California CCW, I was very disappointed. I will take my time here to elabborate my stance on CCW.

1- My instructor was a vietnam veteran, with all due respect, he was unstable in my opinion. My 8 hours of class was supposd to be a 1 on 1. Upon arrival I discovered there were 'other' students. Out of the gate I was concerned with his integrity.

2-He spent the 8 hours talking about greasing the enemy with great racist remarks. I was not interested in hearing that misery and setting this country backwards 40 years.

3-We spent less than 10 minutes on laws, the local requirement is much more than that. I grew more concerned.

4-'His" rules of engagement were of military stature not CCW. I started to wonder if I was in the wrong class. No bathroom or lunchbreaks, now I grew more concerned .

5- Like most 'shooters' I looked forward to the 'shoot' part of the class. I never even got to unpack my pistols, let alone shoot.

6-The 8 hour class turned into 10, with no breaks.

7-He left us without literature and knowledge of the ways of the 'sheepdog'. He figured it was OK to carry without knowledge or confidence, I guess.


When I left the class I was scared to carry with what I had learned and was gravely concerned for the safety of myself and others who took this class. How many had taken the class and figured CCW was a cakewalk? That's very scary. At that point, I decided to get better training and off I went to Reno. I enrolled with "Armed and Safe" and went there hoping for the best. My first day was incredible, Kelly Connelly, my Instructor really knew her stuff.

I was approached to possibly becoming an Instructor and offering "something more" to students in my area. I took her up on the offer and absorbed all there was to learn. Practical personal defence training to marksmanship training. Disarming an assailant to 'due force' training.

I spent many hours learning and training. I felt VERY confident when I left the range on my last day. I learned a lot.

I thought I could shoot, like most self taught shooters. I WAS WRONG. I thought I knew enough about situational awareness to be a safe member of the community, I was wrong. Proper training from a "real" Instructor had made a huge impact in my life. Learning from Grandpa and friends is one thing, 'formal' training is another. Why would anyone 'carry' without 'formal' training, for there own safety.

I was once ignorant to firearms, almost anti-gun until a 'situation' changed my view. I am now pro-gun to the core. I am also pro-training to the core. The last thing WE need is someone with a CCW screwing up the deal for the rest of us because he had poor training, or a "attitude" about carrying. I've seen 80 year old women in my Reno CCW classes shoot better than some of my 'so-called' experienced students who 'already know it all' before completing my class.Too many 'self-taught' people scares me, and should scare the pants off anyone in the community. Go to most any BLM range and have a look for yourself. Monkeys are a plenty.

As for the money; it's ok money. I would do all classes for free, but it just gets too expensive on my personal life. When I started this, it was free. I DO teach "kids" for free, and offer huge discounts to 'women'. It's about grooming "responsible" firearms owners. A small step on my part to protect our 2nd amendment.

I do get annoyed at simplistic ways to avoid 'formal training', I could not live with myself if I signed off on a CCW without a shoot qual and find that person in the paper the next day in jail or worse. Nobody leaves the class I offer with unanswered questions, no matter how long it takes.

I called 'Doc" Amentler for training a while back, I thought he was a bit pricey. Then later on I realised why, his views as far as CCW were much like mine; "Proper", 'quality' training. A responsible gun community. Kudos to "DOC". Stay away from bargains.

You will get what you pay for...!

ghettoshecky
08-04-2007, 12:33 PM
What cities are you looking at? I have several classes that I do each month. NorCal and SoCal.

Fremont and weekends only please

tiki
08-04-2007, 2:41 PM
ccwguy,

Again, I was only responding to a question about the requirements for obtaining the permit and not suggesting the BKM for getting one.

If you sat down for lunch with me, you would find that I am like minded in my thoughts about CCW training. After sitting with me and hearing my views on the right to keep and bear arms, current state laws and proposed state and federal laws, many of my friends are usually surprised to hear my views on CCW permits, keeping firearms in homes and, the ease with which some villiage idiots can obtain a firearm.

Firearms are getting a bad name in the press because some people go down to the store, take an idiotically simple handgun safety test, plop down $500 to $1000 on a handgun, pick up the gun after a waiting period for background checks or cooling off periods, fire 50 or 100 rounds through it, then come home and toss the thing, sometimes still loaded, in a dresser drawer or box in the closet. Captain Crackhead breaks into the house, steals the gun and goes out and kills someone with it, or, johnny junior finds it and blows the side of his cousins head off because he didn't know it was loaded.

I took the CCW class in Florida back when I was younger. After sitting through it and listening to the Leiutenant from the local sheriffs dept about the responsibility and liability associated with a CCW, I decided against getting it because I didn't think I was ready for that. Twenty two years later, after growing up A LOT, and, after obtaining proper training, I applied for it. I don't carry a concealed firearm in California, and, I don't carry one when I go back to Florida a couple times a year. To me a CCW is important because if I am driving to or from the range, it cuts down on things that I have to worry about when transporting.

Personally, I feel Florida should require, in addition to safety training, a demonstration of proficiency through live fire exercises and a thorough knowledge and understanding of the laws, both state and federal.

Do I think that a person should be able to properly clear a room, or, run 30 yards while engaging 4 targets, firing 15 rounds and executing a tactical reload along the way before getting one? No. But, I think a person, before getting a CCW, should have to demonstrate that if they discharge a firearm, the projectile, at some reasonable distance between 25 and 50 yards, should hit its intended target.

I cringe when I see some of these guys at the range. I spend anwhere from 1 to 3 days a week at the range, so, I have seen my share of villiage idiots. And, I have seen people with California CCWs coming into the range to qualify, only to get sent away to practice more because they failed to do so. Personally, I think you should have to demonstrate proficiency just to own a firearm. I know i'll probably get flamed for this, but, I see some of these guys at the range, hitting the ground 5 feet before the target, or, missing it altogether. As I watch that, I think of my house, and the single sheet of drywall, the 1/4" or 1/2" of styrofoam, the sheet of Tyvek vapor barrier the layer of chicken wire and the 1/8" or so of stucco that seperates me from the guy next door. Forget about the shotgun with a slug or the .308, I wonder how many sides of these "stucco coolers" a .45 would penetrate.

So, again, please don't think I disagree with your position on the correct type of training one should obtain.

Gmountain
08-04-2007, 2:52 PM
ccwguy,



Personally, I feel Florida should require, in addition to safety training, a demonstration of proficiency through live fire exercises and a thorough knowledge and understanding of the laws, both state and federal.


I actually think Florida should be like Vermont. The US Constitution is pretty clear to me.

Who would determine proficiency? You? Me? Some police officer?

ccwguy
08-04-2007, 2:55 PM
Tki:

Enough said. We share many views. Good on you.

We are not allowed to just jump behind the wheel of a car, yet do not hesitate to jump behind a trigger. That concerns me most.

ccwguy
08-04-2007, 3:07 PM
I actually think Florida should be like Vermont. The US Constitution is pretty clear to me.

Who would determine proficiency? You? Me? Some police officer?

So you're cool with 16 year olds jumping into a car and driving without any training or guidance? That's about the same as handing a gun to anyone who lacks experience or training, and letting them strut around with it loaded in the same mall I'm at with my family, Or at the range next to you.

The constitution does not mention anything of training, that's true. Back then every man woman and child owned a firearm and knew how to use it. Now most learn themselves with Xbox. Visit the range and see who should have training. You may be fine, it's the others I worry about. It's hard to decipher who 'needs' training, that's my issue.

tiki
08-04-2007, 4:49 PM
I actually think Florida should be like Vermont. The US Constitution is pretty clear to me.



It's clear to me too. It says [...], the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot, "A well regulated militia [...]"
"Regulated" back then meant trained. (Not legistated)
"Militia" meant able bodied males. (Not the National Guard or the state)

I have no problem with my neighbor owning a pistol, I just don't want him taking 6 shots at an intruder and hitting him once. What i'm worried about is the 5 rounds that missed.

The Constitution protects my free speech, but I can't go threatening people, and it protects my religious expression, but I can't say that eating human flesh is part of my worship practices. The Mormon's had to stop having multiple wives. Why anyone would want to suffer that much is beyond me, but, they still can't do it.

Gmountain
08-04-2007, 4:50 PM
So you're cool with 16 year olds jumping into a car and driving without any training or guidance? That's about the same as handing a gun to anyone who lacks experience or training, and letting them strut around with it loaded in the same mall I'm at with my family, Or at the range next to you.



Driving is not a right. Bearing arms is. I don't think it is the business of the government to tell me whether or not I am qualified to bear arms and I don't think I should seek the permission of the government to exercise that right.

I don't seek the government's permission to speak out loud,or read what I want, or exercise religion. I don't think the government should decide when I am qualified to exercise my right to free speech.

We've got people so scared of firearms that some people now think the average guy has no business with a gun. What we need to promote is the idea that any one can handle a firearm.

Let's prosecute crimes, not punish people for exercising their rights.

Gmountain
08-04-2007, 4:52 PM
It's clear to me too. It says [...], the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot, "A well regulated militia [...]"
"Regulated" back then meant trained. (Not legistated)


Regulated also meant "equipped." When you use that meaning, there is no doubt as to the Second Amendment.

tiki
08-04-2007, 9:29 PM
We've got people so scared of firearms that some people now think the average guy has no business with a gun. What we need to promote is the idea that any one can handle a firearm.

Let's prosecute crimes, not punish people for exercising their rights.

I agree with the average guy having a right to own one or more firearms, I'm not debating that. I disagree that anyone can own one. I wouldn't want a convicted violent criminal running around with a gun or someone who is mentally unstable.

There was a story in the local paper here a while back. Somebody broke into a home and the occupant, an older female, fired 6 shots at the intruder with a handgun. He was hit once in the arm. When she was asked why it took her 6 times to hit the guy, she replied that she was trying not to hit her furniture. Now, does she have a right to own that firearm? Absolutely. Do I have a right to sit on my couch and watch tv without being killed by someone in my neighborhood who decides to fire 6 shots at an intruder while living in a stucco wraped styrofoam house? Youre damn right I do.

And, you may not seek out the governments permission to speak out publicly, or read or worship, but, go threaten the president, go order some kiddie porn, or, go tie up an animal in your yard and set it on fire and try telling people that you are exercising your religous rights. We'll see how long you last.

I hope you never have the experience, but, you may change your tune
if you lost someone close to you because of some irresponsible dip****.

Gmountain
08-05-2007, 6:01 AM
And, you may not seek out the governments permission to speak out publicly, or read or worship, but, go threaten the president, go order some kiddie porn, or, go tie up an animal in your yard and set it on fire and try telling people that you are exercising your religous rights. We'll see how long you last.



I agree with you. But in those cases, you are prosecuting the action, not getting government permission prior to the actions. A big difference.

Should people be proficient with firearms? Absolutely. Is the government's business? No way.

tiki
08-05-2007, 11:47 AM
I agree with you. But in those cases, you are prosecuting the action, not getting government permission prior to the actions. A big difference.

Should people be proficient with firearms? Absolutely. Is the government's business? No way.

I see your point of view, and, I can not say that I disagree. I think we would all be better off if some people would take thier inherent right and the resposibility that goes with it a lot more seriously.

Gmountain
08-05-2007, 11:58 AM
I think we would all be better off if some people would take thier inherent right and the resposibility that goes with it a lot more seriously.

I agree with that 100%.