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trooper357
11-29-2012, 8:31 AM
I was looking for some heavy ammo on Buffalo Bore's web site and came across a warning that kind of makes me wonder if I made a mistake buying my G-23 (gen3). I pick it up today but I am not happy with some of the stuff I have read. Especially about KaBooms and unsupported barrel. To spend good money and have to think about the possibility of a malfunction is a little disappointing. Yes, I know it's a long shot but still seems that if the gun is so popular, it would not be built with an unsupported barrel. Here is the warning from Buffalo Bore regarding their heavy load 180gr .40 rounds:

Heavy .40 Smith & Wesson +P Ammo - 180 gr. F.M.J. (1,100 fps/M.E. 484 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box

All Buffalo Bore Heavy 40 S&W +P loads use flash suppressed powders that give high velocities at low pressures. Since over 90% of all human shootings in the USA happen in low light, we believe that flash suppressed powders are a potentially life saving advantage - you don't want to be blind after you fire one shot in a life threatening, high stress situation.

There is such a variety of 40 S&W pistols in public use that we will not determine what pistols are compatible with which 40 S&W +P loads - this is your responsibility! We will add that this ammo is safe in pistols that use a fully supported chamber. Please read the safety notices below. The first one is taken form the Speer #13 loading manual. The second is taken from Hodgdons #27 loading manual.

SAFETY NOTICE

"Some pistols chambered for the 40 S&W cartridge may not provide complete support of the case head. If this condition exists, normal pressure loads such as those shown here can cause the case wall to bulge or rupture at the unsupported point. Contact your firearm manufacturer to determine if your pistol completely supports the case head, or ask a gunsmith to inspect your pistol before using it with ANY ammunition. It is the gun owners responsibility to know his firearm and its capabilities and limitations."

40 S&W WARNING

"This data is intended for use in firearms which fully support the cartridge in the chamber. Use of this data in firearms which do not fully support the cartridge may result in bulged cases, ruptured cases, case head separation, or other conditions which may result in damage to the firearm and/or result in injury or death of the shooter or bystanders."

Glock happens to chamber their 40 S&W pistols without a fully supported chamber and both of those above safety notices are likely aimed at Glock. I know of no other 40 S&W handguns being sold in the US that don't have fully supported chambers. If you really want to shoot our 40S&W ammo in your Glock, have an after market barrel that uses a supported chamber, dropped into it. This is a fairly common practice and will give you the safety margin needed to fire our ammo in your Glock. It will also likely give you more velocity that the factory Glock barrel. I personally own two Glock Model 23's. Both of mine are going to get after market barrels dropped in so that I can use this excellent ammo in them. The issue of Glock pistols not having a fully supported chamber is with the 40 S&W cartridge only, not 45 acp, 10mm, 9mm or 380 auto. While Glocks chambers are not fully supported in any of those calibers, only the 40 S&W brass is weak enough in the web for it to be a safety issue. I REPEAT, only the 40 S&W is a safety issue with chambers that are not fully supported. You do not need to be concerned with this issue when using our 45acp+, 10mm, 380 auto+P or 9mm+P or +P+ ammunition in Glock pistols.

Oceanbob
11-29-2012, 9:07 AM
Actually there are no auto-loading pistols in any caliber that have a fully supported chamber. Reason being, all bullets need some sort of ramp to get into the chamber reliabably.

In all the posts you've made about various subjects and the .40 G23, you must have missed that the newer Glock 23 chambers are just as supported as an aftermarket Lonewolf barrel..

http://i43.tinypic.com/scujd2.jpg

Actually Glock is probably better supported these days than other manufactures including most 1911 platforms and S&W products.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2hft9ir.jpg

Underwood Ammo, known for their hot ammo has this warning on their website in RED:

Cannot be used in Colt Delta Elite or any other firearms with rampless barrel due to complete lack of case support.

Safe for use in all 10mm firearms with a ramped feed barrel.
(Examples: Glock, EAA Witness)

Notice GLOCKS are good to go.

Enjoy your Glock.

corcoraj2002
11-29-2012, 9:07 AM
There was some chatter about this. RTFM. You may find in there (someone mentioned but I have not read) that they do not support +p ammo.

Just run standard loads no need to go with hot loads in .40.

trooper357
11-29-2012, 9:12 AM
Actually there are no auto-loading pistols in any caliber that have a fully supported chamber. Reason being, all bullets need some sort of ramp to get into the chamber reliabably.

In all the posts you've made about various subjects and the .40 G23, you must have missed that the newer Glock 23 chambers are just as supported as an aftermarket Lonewolf barrel..

http://i43.tinypic.com/scujd2.jpg

Actually Glock is probably better supported these days than other manufactures including most 1911 platforms and S&W products.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2hft9ir.jpg

Underwood Ammo, known for their hot ammo has this warning on their website in RED:

Cannot be used in Colt Delta Elite or any other firearms with rampless barrel due to complete lack of case support.

Safe for use in all 10mm firearms with a ramped feed barrel.
(Examples: Glock, EAA Witness)

Notice GLOCKS are good to go.

Enjoy your Glock.

It was only the .40 that the warning was for. It said 10mm was ok.

trooper357
11-29-2012, 9:15 AM
I also followed up with an email to Glock asking what ammo may cause any kind of malfunction in the gen3 G23. Along with the Buffalo Bore warning information. If the gen3 barrel is safe, then I am a happy camper. But if there is factory ammo that is not recommended, I want to know. Still learning here. Revolvers were so much easier.......LOL

paul0660
11-29-2012, 9:21 AM
Nice pics Bob, that is a great primer on the subject.

Raider888
11-29-2012, 9:38 AM
why +P .40 S&W ammo? Use .357 Sig if you want a higher velocity ammo.

Oceanbob
11-29-2012, 9:54 AM
I also followed up with an email to Glock asking what ammo may cause any kind of malfunction in the gen3 G23. Along with the Buffalo Bore warning information. If the gen3 barrel is safe, then I am a happy camper. But if there is factory ammo that is not recommended, I want to know. Still learning here. Revolvers were so much easier.......LOL

These Legal Disclaimers are common and it is a way to protect the company from litigation.

We know that older barrels have support issues and sellers of HOT ammo have to make statements to Cover Their Butt.

We also know that the newer GLOCK barrels are fine, otherwise you would be hearing all kinds of KaBoom stories all over the Internet Gun Forums. Consider GLOCKS are the most popular with millions in circulation and we only have a small handful of repeated, recycled KaBoom stories. Mostly with reloads that had double-charges.

Glock isn't going to offer up any help in your email. Only to say the standard cover your butt statement about no reloads and no warranty etc if you do.

In the real world GLOCK shooters probably shoot millions of reloads a year in various weekend GUN GAMES.

I doubt you should even consider Buffalo Bore; you're inexperienced in shooting hot loads and the cost to run 1000 rounds of Buffalo Bore thru the new G23 is prohibitive. You have to shoot that much to be proficient.

I would just run some Wally World White Box stuff for now. Get good with that. Get some professional instruction considering you admit to hardly any experience. Later, run a couple of mags of Underwood thru and carry that in the woods. JMO

Post some photos of the new weapon for us.!

:D

SoyB3an
11-29-2012, 10:53 AM
I use DoubleTap ammo which is very comparable to BuffaloBore in my stock Glock23 Gen3 along with countless reloads from multiple manufacturers and never had any problems. In fact my G23 is my favorite go-to weapon because of it's proven reliability and I keep it loaded with DoubleTap 165gr (1,200fps) Golddots.
I believe Oceanbob is right, your Glock is good to go but if you're concerned you can always swap out the barrel every few thousand rounds. I was considering a Lonewolf myself.

trooper357
11-29-2012, 10:59 AM
Was a Military Policeman in the Army and shot a lot of .45 rounds way back in the late 60's early 70's. When I got out, I went to a Colt Trooper MKlll 357mag with 6" barrel. I loved that revolver but not an easy gun to carry while fishing and hiking. Yes, going to take a bunch of practice with the .40 but looking forward to next summer and want to know what heavy loads to carry for protection. I don't mind spending the money on ammo but for practice I will go with the cheap stuff and then also use the heavy stuff every once in awhile just to remove any surprise when I need it in the woods. Not sure any lessons will help in the woods. I did quality as expert with the M-16 rifle and M1911 .45 pistol in the Army but again, lots of years ago.

Red Devil
11-29-2012, 11:14 AM
Hey Troop,

I gave ATK a "WTF...? Over." call and they said that the 200 gr. Blazer JHP is discontinued, but that both the Lawman TMJ and Gold Dot JHP in 200 gr. .40 is current and being shipped.

You just have to find someone that either has it or will order it for you.

For a woods round? either 200 gr. at 900+ fps would be a Very good penetrator.


I am in the process of trackin' down some for myself.

trooper357
11-29-2012, 11:33 AM
Hey Troop,

I gave ATK a "WTF...? Over." call and they said that the 200 gr. Blazer JHP is discontinued, but that both the Lawman TMJ and Gold Dot JHP in 200 gr. .40 is current and being shipped.

You just have to find someone that either has it or will order it for you.

For a woods round? either 200 gr. at 900+ fps would be a Very good penetrator.


I am in the process of trackin' down some for myself.

For my needs I think you are right. Velocity I would think is more important for accuracy and HP ammo, but for large thick skinned animals, heavy bullet at close range can break bones VS making small holes. I'm thinking knock-down bust up. But that is just using my dumb brain which isn't sayin much......:sleeping:

thomasanelson
11-29-2012, 11:33 AM
Actually there are no auto-loading pistols in any caliber that have a fully supported chamber. Reason being, all bullets need some sort of ramp to get into the chamber reliabably.

In all the posts you've made about various subjects and the .40 G23, you must have missed that the newer Glock 23 chambers are just as supported as an aftermarket Lonewolf barrel..

http://i43.tinypic.com/scujd2.jpg

Actually Glock is probably better supported these days than other manufactures including most 1911 platforms and S&W products.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2hft9ir.jpg

Underwood Ammo, known for their hot ammo has this warning on their website in RED:

Cannot be used in Colt Delta Elite or any other firearms with rampless barrel due to complete lack of case support.

Safe for use in all 10mm firearms with a ramped feed barrel.
(Examples: Glock, EAA Witness)

Notice GLOCKS are good to go.

Enjoy your Glock.

And what year did Glock start making "the newer Glock 23 chambers"?

paul0660
11-29-2012, 11:37 AM
I don't worry about kabooms, but the glock leg thing is still there.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w162/paul0660/glockwarning-2.jpg

paul0660
11-29-2012, 11:37 AM
I don't worry about kabooms, but the glock leg thing is still there.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w162/paul0660/glockwarning-2.jpg

trooper357
11-29-2012, 12:52 PM
And what year did Glock start making "the newer Glock 23 chambers"?

Good question............

hermosabeach
11-29-2012, 1:07 PM
I am amazed at how many glocks have been sold in the world and how many hundreds of millions of rounds have been fired through glocks.

The .40 glock is a very common sidearm for Law enforcement and federal agencies.

As the .40 is already a high pressure pistol load, buy some quality ammo and move on.

If you want a .44 mag- get a .44

If you want close to .44 mag in a semi- convert a Glock or XD to .460 Rowland.

To whine that your G23 might not be a good pistol as one or two companies make +P (increased pressure) or +P+ ammo is silly to me.... Just silly

With handguns and the modern 911/ems response times, a single handgun shot is fatal about 7% of the time

Pistols suck for power

Yes - pistols suck for power- but they are easy to have with you!!!!

If you are headed to a fight, a pistol is a back up

The debate over 9mm, 10mm (.40) vs. 11mm (.45) has been debated to death.

Get good ammo
Get a good quality pistol
Train- that is in a class w/ instructors
Then go to the range and do drills to really learn what the instructor showed you.

At the end of the day, FBI stats on shootings do not show a winner amongst calibers.

Learn how to move so you are not an easy target to be hit- punch, kick, stab, shot
Learn how to run your gun
Learn how to hit
Learn how to clear malfunctions

Don't sweat the fact that pistols are not a good stopper
Don't sweat that the g23 will run almost all ammo flawlessly

Red Devil
11-29-2012, 1:23 PM
I have a '93 Gen2 G23 (APK) w/ the original Bbl. that I bought new back then, and run Blazer/HST/Gold Dot/and range reloads in 180 gr. out of it by the hundreds.

No case "smile"... ever.

hermosabeach
11-29-2012, 1:25 PM
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trooper357
11-29-2012, 1:27 PM
I am amazed at how many glocks have been sold in the world and how many hundreds of millions of rounds have been fired through glocks.

The .40 glock is a very common sidearm for Law enforcement and federal agencies.

As the .40 is already a high pressure pistol load, buy some quality ammo and move on.

If you want a .44 mag- get a .44

If you want close to .44 mag in a semi- convert a Glock or XD to .460 Rowland.

To whine that your G23 might not be a good pistol as one or two companies make +P (increased pressure) or +P+ ammo is silly to me.... Just silly

With handguns and the modern 911/ems response times, a single handgun shot is fatal about 7% of the time

Pistols suck for power

Yes - pistols suck for power- but they are easy to have with you!!!!

If you are headed to a fight, a pistol is a back up

The debate over 9mm, 10mm (.40) vs. 11mm (.45) has been debated to death.

Get good ammo
Get a good quality pistol
Train- that is in a class w/ instructors
Then go to the range and do drills to really learn what the instructor showed you.

At the end of the day, FBI stats on shootings do not show a winner amongst calibers.

Learn how to move so you are not an easy target to be hit- punch, kick, stab, shot
Learn how to run your gun
Learn how to hit
Learn how to clear malfunctions

Don't sweat the fact that pistols are not a good stopper
Don't sweat that the g23 will run almost all ammo flawlessly



Not whining, just asking questions. Hope that is ok. I am reading a lot on the internet about Glock 23 and ammo. Also about protection in the woods. Lots of good info and also bad info out there. Some here too. You are tired of reading all of it I am sure. Best thing to do is don't read my posts if they bother you. I am new to the forum so I have lots of questions and looking for experienced current replies. Didn't mean to whine if that's how it's perceived.

sd_shooter
11-29-2012, 2:09 PM
Not whining, just asking questions. Hope that is ok. I am reading a lot on the internet about Glock 23 and ammo. Also about protection in the woods. Lots of good info and also bad info out there. Some here too. You are tired of reading all of it I am sure. Best thing to do is don't read my posts if they bother you. I am new to the forum so I have lots of questions and looking for experienced current replies. Didn't mean to whine if that's how it's perceived.

Don't worry about it, welcome to the forum! :oji:

And enjoy your Glock. And if you ever find you don't want it, just sell it on the CG marketplace, should take 1-2 days and 1-2 weeks at most!

Corbin Dallas
11-29-2012, 6:44 PM
I'd like to also remind fellow shooters that so-called unsupported chambers are designed that way for a reason.

Freq18Hz
11-29-2012, 7:04 PM
This is a pretty interesting topic, one I haven't done much reading on.

I do hear this tossed around a lot as a negative about Glock's. Good info so far, highly interested to hear more.

-Freq

m98
11-29-2012, 8:41 PM
I don't worry about kabooms, but the glock leg thing is still there.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w162/paul0660/glockwarning-2.jpg

But having glocklegs is an Honor for diehard fanbois. Thats why they hate having grip safeties like on the xd's and 1911's....


Op, dont worry about the kaboom thing....just shoot good ammo and wear safety glasses and gloves

451040
12-01-2012, 2:28 PM
Want fully supported chambers? Stick to revolvers.









I don't worry about kabooms, but the glock leg thing is still there.


Worry about the lack of safe firearm handling.


But having glocklegs is an Honor for diehard fanbois. Thats why they hate having grip safeties like on the xd's and 1911's....


Nobody has ever shot their own leg with a grip safety equipped pistol ... oh wait ...

BonnieB
12-01-2012, 2:33 PM
I agree. If you handle it safely and use appropriate ammo, all will be well.

If you worry about all the things that could happen to you, you'd cower in the basement 24/7.

ElDub1950
12-01-2012, 2:53 PM
Geeze dude from your posts you seem to have a lot of concerns about buying your new G23, a lot of issues about fairly irrelevant details. I'll be surprised if you ever fire it.

Why are you looking at Buffalo Bore ammo? Are you really going to pay $1.30 per round for ammo when high quality ammo can be had for $0.32?

Get the gun, get lots of ammo, get some training and enjoy it instead of worrying about doing a bunch of mods and finding exotic ammo.

If you want the most reliable gun for your hiking protection, don't do any mods and don't use exotic ammo and it will serve you well.

gunsandrockets
12-01-2012, 4:09 PM
Good question............

I'm curious too. The pictures certainly help. I'll have to compare them to the barrel of my Glock 23 I bought waaaaay back in 1999.

trooper357
12-01-2012, 4:16 PM
I agree. If you handle it safely and use appropriate ammo, all will be well.

If you worry about all the things that could happen to you, you'd cower in the basement 24/7.

I didn't know anyone in the Sacramento area had a basement. What's a basement? :rolleyes:

trooper357
12-01-2012, 4:23 PM
I'm curious too. The pictures certainly help. I'll have to compare them to the barrel of my Glock 23 I bought waaaaay back in 1999.

Would like to see the differences. After talking to Tim at Buffalo Bore, the newer Glocks should be fine. It's the older ones with the issue but I have yet to figure it out since photos don't really show much. I do know the Glock 23 barrel fit is much looser than the aftermarket Lonewolf which may be part of the support issue. Looser fit equals more bulge. More bulge equals failure????

gunsandrockets
12-01-2012, 4:28 PM
Would like to see the differences. After talking to Tim at Buffalo Bore, the newer Glocks should be fine. It's the older ones with the issue but I have yet to figure it out since photos don't really show much. I do know the Glock 23 barrel fit is much looser than the aftermarket Lonewolf which may be part of the support issue. Looser fit equals more bulge. More bulge equals failure????

Take a close look at that imagery. Particularly the early and later model Glock .40 caliber barrels side-by-side. You can easily see how more of the head of the .40 case is covered by the barrel of the later model Glock.

Just drop a cartridge into your barrel and compare to the photo. It should be an easy matter to tell.

ontmark
12-01-2012, 4:53 PM
Actually there are no auto-loading pistols in any caliber that have a fully supported chamber. Reason being, all bullets need some sort of ramp to get into the chamber reliabably.

In all the posts you've made about various subjects and the .40 G23, you must have missed that the newer Glock 23 chambers are just as supported as an aftermarket Lonewolf barrel..

http://i43.tinypic.com/scujd2.jpg

Actually Glock is probably better supported these days than other manufactures including most 1911 platforms and S&W products.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2hft9ir.jpg

Underwood Ammo, known for their hot ammo has this warning on their website in RED:

Cannot be used in Colt Delta Elite or any other firearms with rampless barrel due to complete lack of case support.

Safe for use in all 10mm firearms with a ramped feed barrel.
(Examples: Glock, EAA Witness)

Notice GLOCKS are good to go.

Enjoy your Glock.

Thanks. Well Done

trooper357
12-01-2012, 4:58 PM
I don't see any difference in any of the top 3 Glock pics. They all look the same. Except the 3rd one which is the Lonewolf barrel. It looks much more supportive.

Oceanbob
12-01-2012, 5:38 PM
I don't see any difference in any of the top 3 Glock pics. They all look the same. Except the 3rd one which is the Lonewolf barrel. It looks much more supportive.

Troop...I'am glad you talked to Buffalo Bore and they confirmed the GLOCK 23 is good to go.!

There are two issues concerning bullet case support; these issues mostly concern 10MM which is the same case as the .40 but about 1/4 inch longer and holds more powder. (bigger bang)

1. The first thing everyone should know is that all GLOCK chambers (and others) have a greater diameter inside the chamber tube. So a .40 round (or any other round in a glock) will have some SLOP from side to side. They do this because Glocks are built for war; built to run dirty ammo and out of spec 9MM ammo that is available around the world by different manufactures, This is a good thing because it means that GLOCKs run and run without problems.

This increase in diameter is 'about' .0008 (8 thousanths) which isn't much but be aware that when the bullet fires the case (in hot loads) will expand to the walls of the chamber. Again, this is not a problem because if you reload you just resize the case and build a new round.:D

2. The older GLOCKS had barrels that had the chambers CUT like a fingernail, at the 6 O'Clock position...look at that first photo again and see the larger SMILE?...Move to the right and the newer barrel has less of a smile and the Lonewolf has practically no smile or slightly better than the middle chamber.

http://i45.tinypic.com/1441u93.jpg

Hi pressure looks like THIS..!

You can see the GLOCK smile and bulge; these case were at the brink of failure, primers popped out. The case on the right is a normal case (starline).

http://i49.tinypic.com/ipruah.jpg

Now you know what unsupported really hot ammo can do in an older barrel.

Most of these issues are the result of bad reloading Troop..double charge will do this and worse. I wouldn't worry at all about your new GLOCK and hot factory ammo my friend.

Be well

Distro
12-02-2012, 8:02 AM
But having glocklegs is an Honor for diehard fanbois. Thats why they hate having grip safeties like on the xd's and 1911's....


Op, dont worry about the kaboom thing....just shoot good ammo and wear safety glasses and gloves

1911 grip safeties are overrated.


zYvAxLX6OzE

Red Devil
12-02-2012, 9:06 AM
Troop...

Just shoot it.

Federal/Blaser/Winchester/Speer... If it comes in 50-round boxes/bags? (and there is no reason to buy 20-round Boutique boxes ex. for maybe Gold-Dot)...

...it's fine - Shoot away.


I have the old unsupported Bbl. on my Gen2 and it never "smiles" brass... ever.

The modern brass is designed w/ a reinforced base to deal w/ this condition as long as the ammo is w/in SAAMI spec., which all good ammo will be.

Shoot.

gunsandrockets
12-02-2012, 4:28 PM
1911 grip safeties are overrated.


zYvAxLX6OzE

Really? That incident is your evidence against 1911 grip safeties?

Ahem. Please explain how a 1911 grip safety failure contributed to the injury in the video you linked to.

In truth the grip safety worked just fine in that incident. The dude gripped his pistol, and then unintentionally pulled the trigger. Just how was a 1911 grip safety supposed to stop that? It isn't magic.:facepalm:

trooper357
12-02-2012, 5:05 PM
He was playing quick draw with is finger on the trigger before he got it out of the holster. From what I saw, totally his fault. Not the holster or gun. Trigger finger has no reason to be near the trigger until the gun is drawn. Bet he doesn't do it again......LOL

Dirty dirt
12-02-2012, 5:31 PM
We use Winchester Ranger 40 S&W 180 GR STX in my GI glock 23 at work. No known problems I am aware of.

trooper357
12-03-2012, 8:15 AM
The two spent cases that came from the test package with my gun both have the bulge and looks like the ones on the left. Do they test the gun with a hot round VS standard?

Troop...I'am glad you talked to Buffalo Bore and they confirmed the GLOCK 23 is good to go.!

There are two issues concerning bullet case support; these issues mostly concern 10MM which is the same case as the .40 but about 1/4 inch longer and holds more powder. (bigger bang)

1. The first thing everyone should know is that all GLOCK chambers (and others) have a greater diameter inside the chamber tube. So a .40 round (or any other round in a glock) will have some SLOP from side to side. They do this because Glocks are built for war; built to run dirty ammo and out of spec 9MM ammo that is available around the world by different manufactures, This is a good thing because it means that GLOCKs run and run without problems.

This increase in diameter is 'about' .0008 (8 thousanths) which isn't much but be aware that when the bullet fires the case (in hot loads) will expand to the walls of the chamber. Again, this is not a problem because if you reload you just resize the case and build a new round.:D

2. The older GLOCKS had barrels that had the chambers CUT like a fingernail, at the 6 O'Clock position...look at that first photo again and see the larger SMILE?...Move to the right and the newer barrel has less of a smile and the Lonewolf has practically no smile or slightly better than the middle chamber.

http://i45.tinypic.com/1441u93.jpg

Hi pressure looks like THIS..!

You can see the GLOCK smile and bulge; these case were at the brink of failure, primers popped out. The case on the right is a normal case (starline).

http://i49.tinypic.com/ipruah.jpg

Now you know what unsupported really hot ammo can do in an older barrel.

Most of these issues are the result of bad reloading Troop..double charge will do this and worse. I wouldn't worry at all about your new GLOCK and hot factory ammo my friend.

Be well

Corbin Dallas
12-10-2012, 9:02 PM
But having glocklegs is an Honor for diehard fanbois. Thats why they hate having grip safeties like on the xd's and 1911's....


Op, dont worry about the kaboom thing....just shoot good ammo and wear safety glasses and gloves


It doesn't matter what weapon you have. If you're not going to be safe then you run the risk of a negligent discharge.

Glocks are safe if and when the user abides by the basic rules of firearm safety.

I will give you that glock pistols when used incorrectly will do what they are designed to, but that is not limited to the glock platform.

I've seen all types of shooters ND including those with "grip" safety devices such as found on XD and 1911's.

If you think grip safety's have never failed, you've not been around long. If you think human beings fail to be safe, you've never seen someone ND.

Bottom line - When you're handling a firearm, it's ALWAYS loaded. PERIOD. Treat it as such.

osxgp
12-10-2012, 11:22 PM
Buffalo Bore isn't recommended for lots of guns because of the pressure rating. If your concerned, use different ammo.

Oceanbob
12-11-2012, 5:08 AM
It doesn't matter what weapon you have. If you're not going to be safe then you run the risk of a negligent discharge.

Glocks are safe if and when the user abides by the basic rules of firearm safety.

I will give you that glock pistols when used incorrectly will do what they are designed to, but that is not limited to the glock platform.

I've seen all types of shooters ND including those with "grip" safety devices such as found on XD and 1911's.

If you think grip safety's have never failed, you've not been around long. If you think human beings fail to be safe, you've never seen someone ND.

Bottom line - When you're handling a firearm, it's ALWAYS loaded. PERIOD. Treat it as such.


This^^^^!!!

Troop. Did you see this thread on G23 ammo..? This is what I would carry. :D


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=654156&highlight=23

trooper357
12-11-2012, 8:14 AM
This^^^^!!!

Troop. Did you see this thread on G23 ammo..? This is what I would carry. :D


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=654156&highlight=23



Yes, I have watched several videos of gel tests but I am not going to shoot gel or people. I am going to use the G23 for protection in the woods and I am thinking knock-down and penetrating VS hollow point damage. I did locate some 180gr from MagTech @ 1050fps 442flb respectively. It is not a +p but I am thinking it's at the top of the standard .40 180gr. MagTech 40PS