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Lavaspit
11-28-2012, 8:35 PM
I checked out the Nano at an SF dealer today - this one had an OD lower. Its a very nice conceal / compact gun, and it doesn't copy anything out there. If you have a design eye, you can see its not even really that close to a Glock. Its not ugly in person. Its no ungainly. It's aggressive boxy and very easy to handle. Chambered in a .45 I would be terrified of this gun if it were whipped out on me. i think its great. I really hope that Beretta takes the time to go through the CA process to get it on the roster ( I heard today that the manufacturer has to submit 15 examples of the models for testing, and they don't get them back. Then there is an annual fee, etc).

This would certainly be my compact go-to. I like the colt defender but a 1911 style body really doesn't work as a compact. Too snaggy. Kimber has a melted compact - again, 1911 body. Not too many options. And then there's the danger of carrying a compact to begin with, and the temptation to let bad drivers have it (speaking as a motorcyclist on the city streets). I never would, but with a compact, the decision has to be made ahead of time, and firmly.

Im going to call the dealer again and find out if certain calibers are going to be CA legal. The PX4 in .45 is not legal, so there;s a clue.

Meanwhile, does anyone know if this will end up being legit for civilian use? (the model I had was law-enforcement-only)

JeremyS
11-28-2012, 8:53 PM
I think you're a bit confused about how the Roster works. Has nothing to do with calibers. Only which guns the manufacturer chooses to send for testing and extortion fees. And it's 3 guns they have to submit for testing, not 15. Additionally, it is still COMPLETELY fine for a civilian to own and use a Nano, regardless of Roster status. The Roster only controls what guns a dealer can sell to a civilian. There are Roster-exempt ways to legally acquire a gun that isn't on the Roster, such as purchasing a used one from somebody who already owns one (for instance, from a law enforcement officer or from somebody who moved into the state with one), getting one as a gift from an out-of-state family member (child, parent, or grandparent), or doing a single shot exemption process, etc etc...

Anyway... the Nano would have to have a magazine disconnect safety and a loaded chamber indicator. It currently doesn't have either of those things. The dealer probably wouldn't know these things. Beretta hasn't made any statements that I know of, but you'd want to call up Beretta and ask them directly if they have plans to make a CA-legal version.

I've been carrying a Nano since July and it's an excellent gun. Thin, extremely reliable, very controllable, shockingly accurate. Fit and finish is great. It's a very good sub-sub-compact. Also, the stainless steel insert is the serialized part, not the frame. Mine has a black frame but for $28 I could purchase a FDE or OD Green one and swap them, no FFL needed.

The Nano, btw, was designed for .40 but they released it in 9mm first. The .40 cal will be coming soon.

Lavaspit
11-28-2012, 8:57 PM
So if you have a Nano is CA, why am I being told that I they are Law enforcement only by my dealer? Is he mistaken? I would like to have the OD green one they have for sale.

9mm suits me fine. Maybe its the caliber that is at issue here. The PX4 storm is not legal in CA chambered in .45, but is legal chambered in 9mm. So I believe it does have something to do with the caliber.

JeremyS
11-28-2012, 9:00 PM
I'm in Washington (see "location" at the top right of my posts and my signature as well). Also, if you read my post you can see why the gun your dealer is selling is "law enforcement only." There are lots of stickied threads you might want to read that are about the Roster and the ways to get guns that aren't on it. Like I said already, the Roster ONLY applies to guns being sold by dealers and it has absolutely positively nothing to do with whether guns are legal to own/use or not.

Again, dude. It has nothing to do with caliber. The 9mm (and .40 cal) PX4 is on the Roster because Beretta submitted it for testing. The .45 isn't because they didn't. THEY ARE BOTH LEGAL. Roster does NOT equal legal or not. Just whether or not it's available for purchase from an FFL and nothing more.

Read the laws. Read the stickies. Read the Wiki. Read my posts haha

corcoraj2002
11-28-2012, 11:27 PM
You can buy off roster handguns in CA if you get it SSE (see sticky) or PPT.

Lavaspit
11-29-2012, 1:59 AM
The sites called Calguns, so I figured you were likely from here. If you were, you'd know that people liek to ask questions directly rather than research a bunch.

What I did read on the forum was quite old, so I didn't know if the laws, ie model submissions, had changed. Do you think the Nano will eventually make its way into CAs roster? Its a popular gun, and a handy one.

I can see what you mean about caliber. I just had a bad experience ordering fro Buds and getting the order turned around at the last second becasue it was a .45. Then I bought a 9mm and it showed up as an Italian INOX. Things are sometimes not so black and white.

I appreciate your info, and your 'tude.

pontiacpratt
11-29-2012, 6:59 AM
The PX4 in 9 and 40 are on the roster because they were released before the foolish roster. They were not submitted because they would fail (no LCI and MSD).
Beretta does not play ball with CADOJ. I doubt we'll see it on the roster.

cruising7388
11-29-2012, 9:37 AM
.... an excellent gun. Thin, extremely reliable, very controllable, shockingly accurate. Fit and finish is great.

Just another way of saying it's a Beretta.:)

JeremyS
11-29-2012, 10:39 AM
The sites called Calguns, so I figured you were likely from here. If you were, you'd know that people like to ask questions directly rather than research a bunch.

I was from CA. I moved a few months ago. Yes, people ask questions about the Roster and about magazine capacity and buying guns from out of state CONSTANTLY, which is why there are stickied threads addressing these issues in very clear, thorough ways. They're kept up-to-date and they are stickies so you don't have to search for answers. P.S. -- I also answered your question quite directly but you did not listen anyway.

The Roster IS pretty black-and-white. With rare exception, it lists the specific model number of the approved gun or the model name + identifying details. It's as easy as ordering that model number. If you order a gun that doesn't match the model number/description, then it's not on the Roster. This is why your order for the .45 got rejected. It isn't Bud's fault and it isn't some ambiguity in the Roster. Guns on it tend to be listed in pretty clear terms with manufacturer model numbers/SKU's, descriptions of the slide/frame materials, coating type (blued, stainless, etc) or color, barrel length, and caliber...

PX4's listed are:

"PX4 Storm Type F / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4" .40 S&W 12/14/2013
PX4 Storm Type F / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4" 9mm 12/14/2013
PX4 Storm Type G / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4" .40 S&W 1/31/2013
PX4 Storm Type G / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4" 9mm 12/14/2013"

...if it isn't one of those, it isn't one of those... no gray area.


The PX4 in 9 and 40 are on the roster because they were released before the foolish roster. They were not submitted because they would fail (no LCI and MSD).

This is not accurate. They WERE tested and made it on the Roster. All guns on the Roster were tested. Guns exempt from the Roster aren't on the Roster.

The Roster began on Jan 1, 2001. It wasn't until Jan 1, 2007 that CA added the requirements of a chamber load indicator and a magazine disconnect safety. Guns that were already on the Roster did not have to re-test and were grandfathered in. This is why the PX4 without those features is on the Roster anyway, and it's only one of hundreds of examples (basically all 1911's, all of the Glocks on the Roster, and just many many many many other guns). It was tested and it did pass the requirements, just back when the requirements were different.

IVC
11-29-2012, 10:52 AM
Do you think the Nano will eventually make its way into CAs roster? Its a popular gun, and a handy one.

No, it will NOT get on the roster.

Every new gun that is added to the roster must have (1) magazine disconnect (cannot fire a chambered round if magazine is not in the gun); and (2) loaded chamber indicator (some visual device that shows a round is chambered). All other safety requirements are easily passed by all modern handguns.

Note that there are guns on the roster that don't have magazine disconnect and/or LCI. Those are on the roster because they were "grandfathered in" - they were on the roster prior to this requirement and were allowed to stay.

This is why Gen 4 Glock will never be on the roster: it doesn't have magazine disconnect and LCI. The Gen 3 doesn't either, but it had been put on the roster prior to the requirement, so it was allowed to stay. When Glock tried to add Gen 4 as just a "minor modification of Gen 3," the DOJ said "NO" - it's a new gun and must be tested according to the new standars (which includes magazine disconnect and LCI).

Beretta Nano doesn't have magazine disconnect and LCI, so it cannot get on the roster in it's current form. Beretta would have to create a completely new version of the gun which contained extra parts for the two required functions. This is very unlikely to happen since it is against the design and purpose of Nano to "bastardize" it like that.

I can see what you mean about caliber. I just had a bad experience ordering fro Buds and getting the order turned around at the last second becasue it was a .45. Then I bought a 9mm and it showed up as an Italian INOX.

As pointed before, there are two independent issues: (1) gun is on the roster; (2) gun is legal/illegal to posses.

Guns on the roster are, excluding some workarounds, the only brand new guns that a dealer can transfer to a non-LEO. A dealer can transfer any non-rostered gun if it's private transfer (buying used) regardless of roster status.

On the other hand, legality is much broader than the roster. The two main characteristics that will make your new gun illegal is the 11+ magazine and threaded barrel. Note that 11+ magazines are not illegal to posses if they were obtained prior to the ban, but there is no such exemption for the threaded barrel. However, if you're transferring a gun through a dealer today, the magazine has to be 10 or less. There is also the whole legality chart of the AR/AK types of handguns, but that's a long and separate story.

Your .45 ACP purchase was not Bud's fault. You were not supposed to order from an out of state retailer a handgun that the local dealer couldn't transfer to you. Bud's doesn't know whether you are, e.g., LEO exempt, so Bud's cannot know whether the gun can be transferred. That's where the local FFL comes into play. They can transfer to you only what's on the roster, so if the gun is not there, they have to send it back. Delay and hassle, but ultimately your responsibility.

JeremyS
11-29-2012, 10:59 AM
(2) loaded chamber indicator (some visual device that shows a round is chambered).

It's even worse than that. CA requires what it calls a chamber load indicator, and many manufacturers' "loaded chamber indicators" don't meet the requirements:

(c) As used in this section, a "chamber load indicator" means a device that plainly indicates that a cartridge is in the firing chamber. A device satisfies this definition if it is readily visible, has incorporated or adjacent explanatory text or graphics, or both, and is designed and intended to indicate to a reasonably foreseeable adult user of the pistol, without requiring the user to refer to a user's manual or any other resource other than the pistol itself, whether a cartridge is in the firing chamber.


Give it a year or two and the text will have to be in 5 languages hahaha


http://i55.tinypic.com/2ca9m9.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c297/rabara9/219D5BE9-EAD4-4B89-8F64-37FAAD9504C0-6761-000009FED43010AF.jpg

IVC
11-30-2012, 8:00 AM
^^ Seen those. Beyond ugly. Oh well, at least slide can be replaced like any other non serialized spare part.