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shonc99
08-01-2007, 12:34 PM
I started this thread for the phone call I got from PTR91 (formerly known as JLD Enterprises) about the 2 HK G3 trigger grips that I ordered which they can no longer sell to Californians. :eek:

Uhm, WHAT?

"Our legal department will no longer allow us to sell the pistol grips into CA." from the other end of the phone. "We can sell the internal components but not the grip itself" the man goes on to say.

SO, am I to understand that pistol grips in and of themselves are now illegal in CA?:confused: :rolleyes:

When did that happen and WTF for? A.M. seriously needs to move on to other things that actually matter.

Anyone else have stories of perfectly legal things which a company won't ship to CA?

Librarian
08-01-2007, 12:48 PM
Sure - search for threads on Sportsman's Guide and Cheaper Than Dirt. Those companies, among others, judge that our legal climate is a greater financial risk than the potential income they might make on many products.

I think they're overly cautious. I don't own the companies - my vote is exercised by whether I spend money there.

It's FUD again - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt - created by our anti-gun Legislature.

Fjold
08-01-2007, 1:04 PM
Add Fulton (Yuck, phooey)

bwiese
08-01-2007, 1:12 PM
This ain't directly attributable to BoF, unlike the situations w/various receiver vendors and Fulton.

JLD just doesn't understand CA laws.

I'm sure the Pirate (ColdWarShooters) will be glad to serve as an intermediary and help you.

FortCourageArmory
08-01-2007, 2:40 PM
Brownell's and Stag are the same way. They won't sell lowers to anyone in CA, even with an FFL.

CRTguns
08-01-2007, 3:16 PM
Lan World is the place for PTRs
www.lanworldinc.com
Ask for Chris.
No hassles, no arguments, just guns.

shonc99
08-01-2007, 5:33 PM
Brownell's and Stag are the same way. They won't sell lowers to anyone in CA, even with an FFL.


You mean that Brownells won't sell lowers or products in general? Brownells has always been shipped what I ordered.

WokMaster1
08-01-2007, 5:48 PM
How many of you actually receive Sportsman Guide & CTD catalogs? I have always dropped them off in the mailbox with a Return to Sender! Illegal in California. Did it about 15 times & never receive any more. I'm just an army of one. Maybe a group protest from Cali gun owners will send a better message, no?:rolleyes:

leelaw
08-01-2007, 6:07 PM
Add Fulton (Yuck, phooey)

I bought three of their receivers and sent a picture to their email, just to rub it in.

adamsreeftank
08-01-2007, 7:42 PM
There are other reasons I won't buy from SG, but the latest problem I had was with CDNN. I called to order an FN SLP (Self Loading Police semi-auto shotgun). No matter how many times I told them it was totally legal, the guy kept telling me their policy was to not ship anything to CA with the word Police in the name. What a joke. Luckily I found a company that can actually read the laws.

FortCourageArmory
08-01-2007, 10:29 PM
You mean that Brownells won't sell lowers or products in general? Brownells has always been shipped what I ordered

Lowers only. I bought some Fulton Armory lowers from them last year when I first opened to sell. They sent them out to me no problem. Come January this year, their customer service calls and informs me that "as of January, 2007 AR-15 lower receivers are no longer shipped to CA addresses. This is a corporate decision that was made based on a request (read that as a threat) from the CA Department of Justice." Take that for what it's worth.

AKman
08-01-2007, 10:35 PM
How many of you actually receive Sportsman Guide & CTD catalogs? I have always dropped them off in the mailbox with a Return to Sender! Illegal in California. Did it about 15 times & never receive any more. I'm just an army of one. Maybe a group protest from Cali gun owners will send a better message, no?:rolleyes:

I've had numerous battles with SG over ridiculous items that they won't ship to California or Ventura County. I was totally ignored through the customer service route, so I went at them through their investor relations. I finally got someone that would talk about the issue, but he insisted that they rely totally on the opinion of their lawyer and do not question his decisions. I gave a couple of examples where he was completely wrong (e.g., they won't ship a tanned buffalo hide). They also won't ship a kitchen knife to Ventura County even though there is no law or ordinance covering these. I even pointed out that they are losing a lot of sales, but they didn't care.

I hadn't thought about returning their catalogs, but I do occasionally order a bunch of banned items and make them take the time to send me an e-mail as to why my order won't ship.

m24armorer
08-01-2007, 10:46 PM
Kind of like Ebay. Private company decides to be PC.

Wonder how many stock shares it would take to turn Ebay around. I myself would like to sit in on a board of directors meeting and yell "I'TS OFF LIST MORONS!!" Lets auction it!

Librarian
08-01-2007, 10:49 PM
I've had numerous battles with SG over ridiculous items that they won't ship to California or Ventura County.
...
I even pointed out that they are losing a lot of sales, but they didn't care.That's the key. So long as they perceive an imbalance between their risk and their profit, they'll keep doing the risk-averse thing.

And if -your- business was on the line, at the whim of the California Legislature (or you at least thought that was the case), would you choose differently?

Not all businesses are led by Ronnie Barrett.

m24armorer
08-01-2007, 11:11 PM
If it's public traded stock, buy it. This is the only way to have a voice in a environment that just wants us to go away.

singleshotman
08-01-2007, 11:54 PM
I once tried to order a Martini-Henry in 577/450 from Sportsman's Guide-this is a rifle that stopped being manufactured in 1888 and they said it was illegal.
I called their customer surface and they said there lawyer said so. I continue to recieve their catalogs and i just toss'em, i don't ever bother to read them. These people deserve the Darwin award for stupidy.

m24armorer
08-02-2007, 12:08 AM
I really think it is a CYA thing. Our state is so messed up it is getting to the point that no one wants to deal with us.

tenpercentfirearms
08-02-2007, 5:18 AM
I really think it is a CYA thing. Our state is so messed up it is getting to the point that no one wants to deal with us.

Our state is less messed up than many people think. There is so much legal business that can be done in California, but people just don't want to even try to make it work.

So I say screw them. If they don't want your business, don't give it to them. Give it to people who do want your business and take an extra minute or two to understand our laws and trust the end user to use the products legally. Or who just don't give a crap what you do with you gun parts because they shipped them in a legal manner and it is 100% your responsibility to make sure you keep it that way.

shonc99
08-02-2007, 8:04 AM
Cheaper than Dirt's customer service told me that they couldn't ship a HK91/G3 stock set but they did ask me if I knew anyone in Arizona that could receive it and then pick it up from them.

SO, it isn't legal to ship the product into CA according to your company but it is legal to suggest to me how to circumvent your rule and break the "law" anyway? WTF over?

supersonic
08-02-2007, 9:57 AM
Sure - search for threads on Sportsman's Guide and Cheaper Than Dirt. Those companies, among others, judge that our legal climate is a greater financial risk than the potential income they might make on many products.

I think they're overly cautious. I don't own the companies - my vote is exercised by whether I spend money there.

It's FUD again - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt - created by our anti-gun Legislature.

Yes......If I'm not mistaken, I purchased LARGE quantities of ammo from both(?-@ least one), about 11/2 yrs ago. Called to "replenish" my supply about 6 mos. ago, and was told they won't ship "live ammo" to Ca. any longer. They lost a good customer. *****s. They (CTD) shipped me an item about 2-3 yrs ago, that has since fallen into the same "category." BUT, GET THIS: they sent me a letter about a year ago asking me to ship the item back, as it is no longer legal in this "state." Of course, they would re-imburse me. I DID send them something, though. It was a simple envelope w/ copy of their request + 2 photocopies from me: I sat on a photocopier and farted just as the "wave of light" passed over the 'ol starfish; the other was simply a copy of my middle finger. The first photocopy looked so funny, I made a copy of IT for myself!!!!!:rofl2::43:

shonc99
08-02-2007, 11:28 AM
PM SENT:jump:

supersonic
08-02-2007, 7:38 PM
PM SENT:jump:

DUDE, JUST try IT...IF IT IS TIMED JUSTRIGHT....................have you ever seen someone on the other side of a window smash their mouth up against glass & blow HARD????:rofl2::banghead::sweatdrop::rofl2:
S.S.:43:

Yankee Clipper
08-02-2007, 9:09 PM
How many of you actually receive Sportsman Guide & CTD catalogs? I have always dropped them off in the mailbox with a Return to Sender! Illegal in California. Did it about 15 times & never receive any more. I'm just an army of one. Maybe a group protest from Cali gun owners will send a better message, no?:rolleyes:
Both companies send their catalogs as Standard Postage, so the refused item doesn't go back to the sender, as it would had it been sent to you with 1st class postage. So you might save yourself and the P.O. some time and toss those things yourself.

thedrickel
08-02-2007, 9:55 PM
Hmmm are there any business reply mail card thingy's in the catalogs. . . we can attach those to boxes of bricks or rocks and mail them back postage due :)

carsonwales
08-02-2007, 10:11 PM
Hmmm are there any business reply mail card thingy's in the catalogs. . . we can attach those to boxes of bricks or rocks and mail them back postage due :)

I like your style bro....sweet...

I am sick of pussies....I have no use for them in my damn foxhole.

Molon Labe

gazzavc
08-02-2007, 10:36 PM
I hate SG and CTD for just that reason. However I have bought 303 milsurp ammo from them and had it delivered to my shop in the Valley. For whatever reason its OK to ship ammo to Woodland Hills, but if I go 5 miles up the road to Ventura county , the great hand of "NO" comes into play........

Their loss.......

WokMaster1
08-02-2007, 10:52 PM
Both companies send their catalogs as Standard Postage, so the refused item doesn't go back to the sender, as it would had it been sent to you with 1st class postage. So you might save yourself and the P.O. some time and toss those things yourself.

That is interesting because I get newsletter returned back to my office because the person does not live there & a "return to sender" & "No such person in this address" on it. We do use Standard Postage similar to the direct mail. What gives??

Librarian
08-02-2007, 11:46 PM
Hmmm are there any business reply mail card thingy's in the catalogs. . . we can attach those to boxes of bricks or rocks and mail them back postage due :)

I'm sympathetic to the idea, but I wish this one would go away.

USPS won't deliver a brick using BRM as a label. Business Reply Mail is USPS "First Class", with a limited weight.

8.4.6 Intentions of the Permit Holder

BRM may not be used for any purpose other than that intended by the permit holder, even when postage is affixed. In cases where a BRM card or letter is used improperly as a label, the USPS treats the item as waste.

See USPS (http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/507.htm#wp1044768) section 8.0.

You -can- dump one company's junk into another company's envelope, and it still will fit the First Class category.

BigDogatPlay
08-02-2007, 11:54 PM
For what it's worth I've been ordering ammo from CTD for a long time and they've never once refused to ship to me. There are particular counties (SF and LA in particular) where they can't / won't ship to.

LECTRIKHED
08-03-2007, 12:14 AM
CTD has just lost all of my future business today. A week ago, I ordered a rossi grip, and an extractor. They charged me something like $12 in shipping. So, I still decided to go with it because the grip was cheaper than anywhere else. So I got an email today saying that the grip was out of stock, and I would be refunded the price. So I basically paid $25 for an extractor, that I could have gotten anywhere, and didn't really need.

socalguns
08-03-2007, 12:52 AM
:useless:

thedrickel
08-03-2007, 1:00 AM
I'm sympathetic to the idea, but I wish this one would go away.

USPS won't deliver a brick using BRM as a label. Business Reply Mail is USPS "First Class", with a limited weight.



See USPS (http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/507.htm#wp1044768) section 8.0.

You -can- dump one company's junk into another company's envelope, and it still will fit the First Class category.

Sounds like no bricks . . . but heavy envelopes are OK?

supersonic
08-03-2007, 7:56 AM
Hmmm are there any business reply mail card thingy's in the catalogs. . . we can attach those to boxes of bricks or rocks and mail them back postage due :)

WOW....never thought of doing that! Great for douchebag companies like S.G. & CTD. I'm f***ing ON it!
S.S.:43: