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jm13690
11-26-2012, 4:55 PM
Should I go with a Glock 20 or some type of 357 revolver?

I do some work at a ranch down in the deeper hills of Hollister. There are hogs, rattlesnakes, and recently the trail cam pictures have been capturing a mountain lion. All of which I dont want me or my dog to mess with when I am working on the property.

I decided on these 2 calibers because of the power but that I also shoot a secondary ammo for fun. That is get a Lone Wolf 40 barrel for the Glock and the 357 I can shoot 38. This is why I am staying away from the 44 mag.

What are peoples preferences? I wanted something that I wouldn't care if it gets messed up, thats why a 454 Casull is out. The Glock has been growing on me, however I do like that I can get the snake load for the 357 for the rattlers.

So any help would be great and thanks in advance.

maschronic
11-26-2012, 4:57 PM
i own both. I used to carry my S&W581-2 357mag when i'm backpacking in the sierras. Now, i bring my G29. Just the ability to take a follow up shot is quicker being a semi auto. I do own a G20 and love it just as much.

My vote is G20!!

Ubermcoupe
11-26-2012, 5:02 PM
Snake load won’t really help you against a mountain lion.

I have more than my fair share of .357s - that being said, if you’re looking for something inexpensive, that you can shoot and beat to crap I would look into a G20SF.

Capacity + inexpensive pistol + durable = G20/G20SF.

If you can find a decent price .357 in a condition that you wont mind getting banged up while doing your ranch work I would highly consider it.

JaMail
11-26-2012, 5:06 PM
id say the .357 /38 since you can always buy a carbine that takes those

Kruzzzzin34
11-26-2012, 5:06 PM
My vote is for the glock. 10MM is an awesome round

jm13690
11-26-2012, 5:08 PM
Revolver wise, I was looking into a GP100and considering I would get a 40 barrel for the Glock they would be similar in price. I really just can not make up my mind. I know both guns can take a beating, but its a hard decision. I just feel the Glock could be a better choice since its a gun that I know I wouldn't care about it getting scratched up.

However, that snake load for the rattlers in the summer does sound appealing. To tell you the truth I don't know if snake loads are really that good. Anyone ever try them?

kauaibuilt
11-26-2012, 5:16 PM
Im in the same boat. Ive been researching 10mm vs .357 vs 44 mag. Im leaning Glock 20/29 but i kinda like the idea of a 44 or .357 lever action. And i already have 2 .38 snubbies so commonality is also a factor.

paul0660
11-26-2012, 5:22 PM
The only Glock I would have is a 10mm, for exactly this purpose. Capacity counts.

SA227driver
11-26-2012, 5:29 PM
Buy both!

filthy phil
11-26-2012, 5:37 PM
15 rds (ok 10 for you folks) vs 6 or 7? i'm going with the semi. and after seeing the vids of the g20 making hits at 200+ yards the revolver really has no edge in long range work either if the shooter does his part. maybe with a 10" bbl

jm13690
11-26-2012, 5:41 PM
I had never really been a Glock fan but the G20 has definitely been growing on me, just hard to decide on what is more practical at the moment.

sprig
11-26-2012, 5:42 PM
10mm...more umpf and more rounds.

Oceanbob
11-26-2012, 5:45 PM
Glock 29. Perhaps the most versatile platform on the planet.

BlackDrop50
11-26-2012, 6:12 PM
10mm anyday.

DannyInSoCal
11-26-2012, 6:14 PM
I'm pretty sure someone makes a 357Sig conversion barrel for the G20 -

Or you could step up to the .50GI

:43:

billped
11-26-2012, 6:15 PM
I have a GP100 in .357 now, looking for the Gen4 G20 as well. Getting the boom of the .357 in a semi-auto with 2x the capacity is major goodness.

The Mad Mule
11-26-2012, 6:44 PM
Well IMO the only perk a revolver has over a semi-auto is that if one bullet is screwed up (doesn't fire, etc.) then you can just pull the trigger again, and it'll move onto the next one.

But this is a Glock we're talking about, so chances are it won't happen. :p

gorenut
11-26-2012, 6:48 PM
I personally would go with the 357.. but I love revolvers and I'm just getting into reloading (no brass chasing is always a bonus). For your purpose though, I can see the Glock in 10mm with at least 10 rounds being advantageous... especially if you need to carry. Its a touch choice and if you don't already have a 357, you should eventually get one anyways. Glocks and revolvers are my favorite guns.

S.A.
11-26-2012, 6:53 PM
In the for sale section, there's a Ruger security six in nor cal. That is a really good gun that you can use. It is lighter than the GP100. The Glock 10mm is also a good choice. Get both!

corcoraj2002
11-26-2012, 6:55 PM
Never mind misread a message I quoted.

ironpete
11-26-2012, 6:56 PM
Or go the other way and do a 10mm revolver!

Use 40s&w for fun and ramp up to 10mm for work.

The high stress failure drill is another pull on the trigger...

jm13690
11-26-2012, 7:53 PM
Or go the other way and do a 10mm revolver!

Use 40s&w for fun and ramp up to 10mm for work.

The high stress failure drill is another pull on the trigger...

Would be nice but pretty sure a 10mm revolver would cost a bit more then a G20.

sirgiles
11-26-2012, 8:30 PM
in the wilderness, if all i'm worried about are the four legged kind, i would recommend a 10mm. unfortunately, i have'nt heard of any snake loads for this round. so for your specific needs, a 357 mag would be best.

uhlan1
11-26-2012, 8:30 PM
A Glock can take a horrific beating and keep right on throwing, and it will throw anything. Drop it in the mud and it will keep on throwing. it just doesn't matter.

The 10mm is just an awesome round and next to my G34, the G20 is my favorite Glock. Accurate too. 15 rounds, oops, my bad, 10 rounds versus six. In one second you have another....10. If you are worried about both rattlers and mountain lions, I'd forget about the snake shot, just have a shovel nearby. Or heck, use it as target practice for the G20.
G20, no question.

NytWolf
11-26-2012, 8:35 PM
10mm has more power than the 357 mag. The Glock will give you more rounds than any revolver.

dbbspider
11-26-2012, 8:35 PM
Both calibers will do well against a mountain lion. I don't think u can go wrong with either one. When I'm in the woods or desert, I take my 44 special bulldog pug revolver that I bought for under $200 many years ago. It takes a beating and still fires fine and the bullet is plenty big. My broh carries a sw 686 in 357 and it also takes a beating. He also likes the snake shot rounds. Good luck

redcliff
11-26-2012, 9:15 PM
Glocks have their advantages; light weight, higher capacity and who cares if you beat it up. The 10mm is a capable round and fun to shoot.

The .357 revolver has advantages in it's ability to shoot different loads; 38 special or .357, or combination loads such as 1 snake shot up first followed by JHP or JSP. They also can be fired at contact distance if you're knocked down and something is on top of you and your pushing the barrel into the critter while firing trying to get it off you which would take a semi out of battery and prevent firing.

Personaly I go with a 3" 629 44magnum; the 10 mm round doesn't have anything on it and I can shoot 44 special loads when desired. But the GLock makes sense for a lot of people and I don't fault their reasoning if thats their choice.

ivanimal
11-26-2012, 9:42 PM
I had a different dilemma there have been a lot more wolf, bear and lion attacks where I hunt. The animals have found that a single shot is the dinner bell. I also wish to hunt Alaska. I carried a 41 magnum for years and felt totally adequate. That is till i heard about the wolves. Six shots is not enough. I recently bought a Glock 20 and ordered a Lone Wolf Barrel and 20 LB spring with a stainless slide. Now for the testing.............

NytWolf
11-26-2012, 9:49 PM
I had a different dilemma there have been a lot more wolf, bear and lion attacks where I hunt. The animals have found that a single shot is the dinner bell. I also wish to hunt Alaska. I carried a 41 magnum for years and felt totally adequate. That is till i heard about the wolves. Six shots is not enough. I recently bought a Glock 20 and ordered a Lone Wolf Barrel and 20 LB spring with a stainless slide. Now for the testing.............

The G20 is like having the 41 magnum in a semi. The 10mm and 41 mag have very similar ballistics.

pyromensch
11-26-2012, 9:54 PM
i'd go 357, for the reason, the OP stated, plus, 38/357 ammo is more abundant, and cheaper, notwithstanding the reutation of the glock, but revolvers, typically, endure harsh conditions better, and continue to function, you don't need a magazine, (lose it, and you are single shot, that is if there is not, a disconnect), there are rifles, made in this caliber, (more than in 10 mm). versatility, in ammo selection.

Mstnpete
11-26-2012, 10:01 PM
Glock 20 ftw! It will withstand all sorts of rough terrain and weather.

Using Double Tap ammo

Bullet : 200gr Wide Flat Nose Gas Check Hardcast

Ballistics : 1300fps/ 750 ft./lbs. - Glock 20

You have the power of a 41 magnum in high capacity rounds. Good for all creatures!
This is my side arm when hunting wild boar!

ivanimal
11-26-2012, 10:06 PM
The G20 is like having the 41 magnum in a semi. The 10mm and 41 mag have very similar ballistics.

That's what I saw. they shoot heavy bullets fast. Win Win Except for the target...........:chris:

KIDRR
11-26-2012, 10:14 PM
lol always this same guy in every 10mm thread recommending a 10mm revolver which IMO is the worst of both worlds. Get the wheel gun with less capacity but more power or the G20 with more capacity and less power.

Anyway, I carry the G20SF 80% of the time when I'm hunting and my 44mag wheel gun the other times.


And

http://youtu.be/PGkTXNAJqWY

jm13690
11-26-2012, 10:20 PM
i'd go 357, for the reason, the OP stated, plus, 38/357 ammo is more abundant, and cheaper, notwithstanding the reutation of the glock, but revolvers, typically, endure harsh conditions better, and continue to function, you don't need a magazine, (lose it, and you are single shot, that is if there is not, a disconnect), there are rifles, made in this caliber, (more than in 10 mm). versatility, in ammo selection.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I reload and where I am at is in lead free zone, so the ammo I will have on my hip would be lead free and cost is really close for both. The Glock does have the option of shooting 40 cal, which is pretty darn abundant, however target shooting with the .357 can be quite cheap too. Hence, I am torn.

Oceanbob
11-27-2012, 5:56 AM
There are hogs, rattlesnakes, and recently the trail cam pictures have been capturing a mountain lion. All of which I dont want me or my dog to mess with when I am working on the property.


You should have a weapon with some firepower and capacity. Glock in 10MM.

Glocks have their advantages; light weight, higher capacity and who cares if you beat it up. The 10mm is a capable round and fun to shoot.

I agree. Working around a Ranch you want something that won't weigh you down. A nice Glock 20SF with a comfortable chest rig would be easy to carry as the day wore on.


I had a different dilemma there have been a lot more wolf, bear and lion attacks where I hunt. The animals have found that a single shot is the dinner bell. I also wish to hunt Alaska. I carried a 41 magnum for years and felt totally adequate. That is till i heard about the wolves. Six shots is not enough. I recently bought a Glock 20 and ordered a Lone Wolf Barrel and 20 LB spring with a stainless slide. Now for the testing.............

Very cool..!..This is Good Advice^^^^.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I reload and where I am at is in lead free zone, so the ammo I will have on my hip would be lead free and cost is really close for both. The Glock does have the option of shooting 40 cal, which is pretty darn abundant, however target shooting with the .357 can be quite cheap too. Hence, I am torn.

Nothing to be torn about in my opinion. A heavy all steel revolver with 6 shots isn't going to be as potent as a G20SF and up to 15 rounds of fast moving 10MM. Even shooting .40 in a G20 is a hoot. Less expensive and since you reload already, you can make some great carry ammo. Other than that, I would run some factory Underwood Ammo for pest control.

Another advantage to the GLOCK 20/21 Frame Platform in a Mech-Tech carbine upper. A 10MM carbine is incredibably effective on Mountain Lions and 64 Chevrolets with 6 gang members. (JOKE).

Sure, it's not a .357 lever gun (which is also fun) but as you can see in this video, it can put fast moving bullets down range and is very accurate. The best thing is it turns back into a holstered Glock 20 in about 32 seconds. :D

edjW6MLab5M&feature=channel&list=UL

m98
11-27-2012, 10:48 AM
G20 all the way.....40:357sig:45acp conversion barrels. The 357 wheelgun is only good for 1 conversion.
Imo, if I was to go wheelgun for sticks carry, its gonna be a 44mag and bigger

paul0660
11-27-2012, 10:57 AM
Drop it in the mud and it will keep on throwing. it just doesn't matter.

This is my favorite hyperbole.

If I had one, I wouldn't drop it in the mud, because it is actually less likely to keep "throwing". I don't know anyone who has except on purpose to make a fanboi vid.

*giggle*.

Red Devil
11-27-2012, 12:41 PM
Hogs...?

...or just boy Javelina pigs.

.40 Glock 23 w/ 180 gr. TMJ will do fine for anything up there.


This is a Hog. :D

http://www.lahoghunting.com/images/30.jpg

(and I still carry a .40 Glock 23 w/ 180 gr. TMJ)

Squid
11-27-2012, 12:52 PM
Working on a ranch?!?! Get Ruger Blackhawk convt, and cowboy gunbelt.

Here is a stainless for little more, but stainless would be nice on a ranch for constant at handiness.

NytWolf
11-27-2012, 12:53 PM
Hogs...?

...or just boy Javelina pigs.

.40 Glock 23 w/ 180 gr. TMJ will do fine for anything up there.


This is a Hog. :D

(and I still carry a .40 Glock 23 w/ 180 gr. TMJ)

Just don't get caught with FMJ/TMJ ammo with a hunting license. It is a no-go to hunt with non-expanding ammo in CA. Non-expanding ammo isn't recommended for SD either.

Oceanbob
11-27-2012, 12:58 PM
Hogs...?

...or just boy Javelina pigs.

.40 Glock 23 w/ 180 gr. TMJ will do fine for anything up there.


This is a Hog. :D

http://www.lahoghunting.com/images/30.jpg

(and I still carry a .40 Glock 23 w/ 180 gr. TMJ)

DANG....I can't believe how BIG that Hog is.!!

I agree that .40 will work. :D

Mr. Beretta
11-27-2012, 1:12 PM
Either a Ruger GP100 with a 4" barrel

or

Have you considered a 12 ga pump with a pistol grip and extended mag tube? A Remy 870 or Mossberg 590A1. With the right sling, it could be safely carried out of the way, slung over your back.

Cheaper than either the Glock or revolver and plenty of power.

Red Devil
11-27-2012, 1:14 PM
DANG....I can't believe how BIG that Hog is.!!...

That is pretty typical for a Big feral hog in the Great State of Louisiana.

Called Piny-woods rooters. Cross b/t domestic sausage hogs and wild Razorbacks... big ones go 200-350 lbs. Meat's red and delicious.

Sows w/ shoats are big too and plenty mean.


Now THIS (http://almtnman.blogspot.com/2007/05/alabama-monster-wild-hog.html) is a BIG hog. :D

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/uploaded_images/D8PBKB5G0-757582.jpg

Sunday
11-27-2012, 1:17 PM
You should have a weapon with some firepower and capacity. Glock in 10MM.



I agree. Working around a Ranch you want something that won't weigh you down. A nice Glock 20SF with a comfortable chest rig would be easy to carry as the day wore on.




Very cool..!..This is Good Advice^^^^.



Nothing to be torn about in my opinion. A heavy all steel revolver with 6 shots isn't going to be as potent as a G20SF and up to 15 rounds of fast moving 10MM. Even shooting .40 in a G20 is a hoot. Less expensive and since you reload already, you can make some great carry ammo. Other than that, I would run some factory Underwood Ammo for pest control.

Another advantage to the GLOCK 20/21 Frame Platform in a Mech-Tech carbine upper. A 10MM carbine is incredibably effective on Mountain Lions and 64 Chevrolets with 6 gang members. (JOKE).

Sure, it's not a .357 lever gun (which is also fun) but as you can see in this video, it can put fast moving bullets down range and is very accurate. The best thing is it turns back into a holstered Glock 20 in about 32 seconds. :D

edjW6MLab5M&feature=channel&list=ULMountain lions are easy to kill as they are really soft targets.

NytWolf
11-27-2012, 2:42 PM
Now THIS (http://almtnman.blogspot.com/2007/05/alabama-monster-wild-hog.html) is a BIG hog. :D

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/uploaded_images/D8PBKB5G0-757582.jpg

Controversial pic. Some say it's 'shopped.

jm13690
11-27-2012, 2:45 PM
Either a Ruger GP100 with a 4" barrel

or

Have you considered a 12 ga pump with a pistol grip and extended mag tube? A Remy 870 or Mossberg 590A1. With the right sling, it could be safely carried out of the way, slung over your back.

Cheaper than either the Glock or revolver and plenty of power.

I think a shotgun would be pretty cumbersome when carrying around hay or working on rebuilding a fence.

I do like the 4" GP100 although that G20 seems like it could be a fun round to play around with. I am just wondering which is more practical for my situation.

Red Devil
11-27-2012, 2:47 PM
Controversial pic. Some say it's 'shopped.

Different Hog... link was provided. ;)

Raider888
11-27-2012, 2:48 PM
Glock plus a Benelli M4, IMO.

hill billy
11-27-2012, 2:53 PM
The G20 is like having the 41 magnum in a semi. The 10mm and 41 mag have very similar ballistics.



You have the power of a 41 magnum in high capacity rounds. Good for all creatures!
This is my side arm when hunting wild boar!

Maybe a slow 41 round. You can easily push a lead 200 gr 41 up over 1600fps. 41 blows 10mm away when properly loaded. Comparing factory apples to apples, they aren't even in the same league. Comparing handloads, well, they still aren't.

NytWolf
11-27-2012, 3:11 PM
Different Hog... link was provided. ;)

The link shows the same pic with the kid.

jm13690
11-27-2012, 10:32 PM
Maybe a slow 41 round. You can easily push a lead 200 gr 41 up over 1600fps. 41 blows 10mm away when properly loaded. Comparing factory apples to apples, they aren't even in the same league. Comparing handloads, well, they still aren't.

41 mag is nice, but tend to be a bit more pricey. Plus would probable be a gun I would be worried about getting scratched up.

Rorge Retson
11-27-2012, 10:50 PM
To me it is silly to consider anything other than a Glock 10mm for your purposes.

Travis590A1
11-28-2012, 1:58 AM
So I guess I'm first to suggest it. Glock 21sf with a 10mm slide conversion. 2 of the best handgun calibers IMHO

Raytan
11-28-2012, 4:05 AM
A few years ago me and a friend were both looking a getting new handguns and spent a lot of time debating on .357 or 10mm in the end I went with the S&W 686+ he went with the glock 20. Right out of the box I loved my 686 (and still do) he on the other hand didn't love the g20 out of the box so decided to modify it a bit. After spending 400$ or so on a new barrel, sites, grips, and a trigger job it has turned out to be a great gun for him and I gotta admit it's a nice piece or hardware. That said I gotta side with the 686 on this one.

Either way you go I don't think you will be disappointed even if you do have to spend a few hundred extra to get that ugly glock just the way you want ;)

ElDub1950
11-28-2012, 5:51 AM
Revolver wise, I was looking into a GP100and considering I would get a 40 barrel for the Glock they would be similar in price. I really just can not make up my mind. I know both guns can take a beating, but its a hard decision. I just feel the Glock could be a better choice since its a gun that I know I wouldn't care about it getting scratched up.

However, that snake load for the rattlers in the summer does sound appealing. To tell you the truth I don't know if snake loads are really that good. Anyone ever try them?

from the YouTube test I saw, snake load are ok if you get within 3-4 feet. Beyond that there are so few pellets on target that they're minimally effective. If you're within 3-4 feet a big stick would work better LOL.

I believe it was TNoutdoors9 channel that did the tests.

MIAMIbaseballer
11-28-2012, 6:06 AM
10mm all the way..... more rounds and more power.

Fishslayer
11-28-2012, 11:23 AM
Buy both!

This. A .357 wheelgun is simply something every American should own.

10 rounds of 10mm goodness is serious business, too. Thankfully I have yet to encounter a used G20 in the wild that was reasonably priced or I would be hard put to resist the power of The Dark Side...

Either way you're gonna need to start reloading. If the 10mm is anything like .357 Magnum once you run with the Big Dogs the .38SP or 10mm Kurz ain't gonna get it. :D

schneiderguy
11-28-2012, 12:45 PM
10mm has more power than the 357 mag.

10mm all the way..... more rounds and more power.

10mm is less powerful than .357 magnum, and the .357 caliber bullets will have a higher sectional density giving more penetration against wild animals.

The G20 is like having the 41 magnum in a semi. The 10mm and 41 mag have very similar ballistics.

.41mag has an almost 500ft/lb muzzle energy advantage over 10mm.

.41mag is on par with .44mag in terms of muzzle energy. 10mm (and .357mag) are nowhere close to that.

scotus
11-28-2012, 12:47 PM
ruger sp101 .357 in the new 4" barrel? lighter than the GP100 for carrying around, but has adjustable sights.

NytWolf
11-28-2012, 12:50 PM
10mm is less powerful than .357 magnum, and the .357 caliber bullets will have a higher sectional density giving more penetration against wild animals.



.41mag has an almost 500ft/lb muzzle energy advantage over 10mm.

.41mag is on par with .44mag in terms of muzzle energy. 10mm (and .357mag) are nowhere close to that.

Where do you get your numbers? And are you talking about full power 10mm loads, or the wussy FBI-approved commercial off-the-shelf loads?

schneiderguy
11-28-2012, 1:04 PM
Where do you get your numbers? And are you talking about full power 10mm loads, or the wussy FBI-approved commercial off-the-shelf loads?

Compare Buffalo Bore's hottest 10mm to their hottest .357.

451040
11-28-2012, 2:00 PM
without any doubt ... GLOCK 20

akdmx
11-28-2012, 2:23 PM
Can someoe explain this whole snake shooting business to me? It's seems like the only situation in which I would want to spend my ammo would be if a snake were blocking a path I absolutely had to take, like trail hiking or something? Is there more to it than that?

DArBad
11-28-2012, 2:27 PM
I'd go with the versatility of the .357 magnum revolver.

NytWolf
11-28-2012, 2:40 PM
Compare Buffalo Bore's hottest 10mm to their hottest .357.

10mm is less powerful than .357 magnum, and the .357 caliber bullets will have a higher sectional density giving more penetration against wild animals.

.41mag is on par with .44mag in terms of muzzle energy. 10mm (and .357mag) are nowhere close to that.

Your numbers are apples to oranges. :shrug:

Did you pay attention to the barrel length vs velocity and energy levels? There's the factor right there. For comparable barrel lengths, the difference is under 100 fps.

So your claim of 500 fps difference is comparing a 5-inch 10mm barrel to an 18.5-inch 357 rifle?

These are Buffalo Bore numbers.

10mm Heavy 180 grain 10mm (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=114)
1. 1311 fps - Glock model 20 4.6 inch barrel
2. 1337 fps - Colt Delta Elite 5 inch barrel
3. 1351 fps - Para Ordinance 1911 with Nowlin 5 inch barrel

357 mag Heavy 125 grain 357 magnum (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=103)
1. 3 inch S&W J frame

Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1398 fps
Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1476 fps


2. 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps
Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps


3. 5 inch S&W model 27

Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1457 fps
Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1543 fps


4. 6 inch Ruger GP 100
Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1707 fps


5. 18.5 inch Marlin 1894

Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2153 fps---- Can you believe this?!!!
Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2298 fps---- Or this?!!!

m98
11-28-2012, 3:12 PM
357mag is NOT more powerful than 10mm thus nytwolfs post. And not just that, in a platform like a g20, firepower will always be superior:10+rds in gun vs 6.

jonzer77
11-28-2012, 3:28 PM
Why not go with a .44 since you are considering a revolver? 10mm can't even come close to .44 and would work on just about any 4 legged critter out there.

schneiderguy
11-28-2012, 4:12 PM
Your numbers are apples to oranges. :shrug:

Did you pay attention to the barrel length vs velocity and energy levels? There's the factor right there. For comparable barrel lengths, the difference is under 100 fps.

So your claim of 500 fps difference is comparing a 5-inch 10mm barrel to an 18.5-inch 357 rifle?

These are Buffalo Bore numbers.

10mm Heavy 180 grain 10mm (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=114)
1. 1311 fps - Glock model 20 4.6 inch barrel
2. 1337 fps - Colt Delta Elite 5 inch barrel
3. 1351 fps - Para Ordinance 1911 with Nowlin 5 inch barrel

357 mag Heavy 125 grain 357 magnum (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=103)
1. 3 inch S&W J frame

Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1398 fps
Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1476 fps


2. 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps
Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps


3. 5 inch S&W model 27

Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1457 fps
Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1543 fps


4. 6 inch Ruger GP 100
Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1707 fps


5. 18.5 inch Marlin 1894

Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2153 fps---- Can you believe this?!!!
Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2298 fps---- Or this?!!!


My claim was that .41mag has a 500 ft/lb energy advantage over 10mm (assuming 10mm is around 700ft/lb, and .41mag is around 1200ft/lb... it's probably actually closer to 400ft/lb now that I think about it. But they are not "very similar" anymore than .38spl and .357mag are "very similar")

By the numbers you kindly provided, a 180gr .357mag is faster out of a 4" revolver than a 180gr 10mm out of a 5" 1911. Hence my claim that .357 is (marginally) more powerful than 10mm.

If you want to compare the maximum energy, BB's 125gr .357 load generates over 800ft/lb from the 4" revolver, which none of their 10mm loads do.

schneiderguy
11-28-2012, 4:13 PM
357mag is NOT more powerful than 10mm thus nytwolfs post.


If you took the oppurtunity to actually look at the numbers he posted, it is in fact more powerful than 10mm.

And not just that, in a platform like a g20, firepower will always be superior:10+rds in gun vs 6.

Except revolvers aren't limited to 6 rounds anymore ;)

jm13690
11-28-2012, 5:01 PM
Why not go with a .44 since you are considering a revolver? 10mm can't even come close to .44 and would work on just about any 4 legged critter out there.

44 doesn't really have as much of the availability for cheap ammo like the 10mm (40 cal) and 357 (38) do. Plus I can see myself getting attached on that one.

mcmikeblues7
11-28-2012, 5:07 PM
I would not care at all about capacity. Which one can you shoot faster while still maintaining accuracy?

jonzer77
11-28-2012, 5:21 PM
44 doesn't really have as much of the availability for cheap ammo like the 10mm (40 cal) and 357 (38) do. Plus I can see myself getting attached on that one.

You would need a barrel swap to run 40 with the 10mm but you can find 44 special for the 44. Always a good reason to start reloading as well :)

dracer
11-28-2012, 8:37 PM
You do know a 10mm will kill a rattle snake

btm
11-28-2012, 9:06 PM
Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2153 fps---- Can you believe this?!!!
Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2298 fps---- Or this?!!!
[/LIST]

I recall doing some testing with a Marlin 1984 some years ago. My .357 pistol loads were pretty peppy, and I never loaded for the "rifle only" levels in case ammo as dual purpose ammo was the whole point. I don't remember the load but one 125g HP load was in the 2200 FPS plus range.

MikeyTranslink
11-28-2012, 10:27 PM
IMHO I will take Glock 20 SF with extra mags,wolf stainless barrel and Double Tap 230 grain ammo is a good all around gun for all weather condition specially in remote area. Glock can take more beating and rust comparing to revolver, And I would add Rem 870 18" barrel for back up with slugs, buck shot and bird shot for snakes.

JTROKS
11-29-2012, 12:20 AM
One thing I forgot to mention is that I reload and where I am at is in lead free zone, so the ammo I will have on my hip would be lead free and cost is really close for both. The Glock does have the option of shooting 40 cal, which is pretty darn abundant, however target shooting with the .357 can be quite cheap too. Hence, I am torn.

I never used steel shot through my 357 and didn't think about lead free zone. I used #7 and 8 and did fairly well with San Bernardino rattlers. A lot of folks folks will say the snakes will get out of your way, but when they are sunning they don't react until you're almost on top of them. Shot loads are for close range shots and we're talking 3 yards max and that's with lead shots.

I have a couple of 10mm and 357 mag revolvers, but I usually take my GP100 for the same purpose you're concerned with. If you go with 357 revolver, my advise is to put a good crimp on 180 grain hot loads to prevent bullet jump.

gsparesa
11-29-2012, 5:33 AM
Is muzzle velocity, Energy, TKOF (Taylor Knock Out Factor) or TSP (Thorniley Stopping Power) the best measure of "POWER"?

Compare 180 gr 357 against 10mm.

10mm (Para Ord 1911 5")
1351 ft/s
180 gr
0.4 dia
Energy = 729 ft-lbs
Momentum = 14 lb-ft/s
TKOF = 14
TSP = 63

357 (S&W 25 5")
1398 ft/s
180 gr
0.357 dia
Energy = 781 ft-lbs
Momentum = 36 lb-ft/s
TKOF = 13
TSP = 62

I think TKOF and TSP should be the measure of "POWER". In this example, I believe that the 10mm is more powerful. However, your choice of weapon, barrel length and ammunition will change the TKOF and TSP values.

redcliff
11-29-2012, 8:40 AM
Is muzzle velocity, Energy, TKOF (Taylor Knock Out Factor) or TSP (Thorniley Stopping Power) the best measure of "POWER"?

Compare 180 gr 357 against 10mm.

10mm (Para Ord 1911 5")
1351 ft/s
180 gr
0.4 dia
Energy = 729 ft-lbs
Momentum = 14 lb-ft/s
TKOF = 14
TSP = 63

357 (S&W 25 5")
1398 ft/s
180 gr
0.357 dia
Energy = 781 ft-lbs
Momentum = 36 lb-ft/s
TKOF = 13
TSP = 62

I think TKOF and TSP should be the measure of "POWER". In this example, I believe that the 10mm is more powerful. However, your choice of weapon, barrel length and ammunition will change the TKOF and TSP values.

With TKOF and TSP within 1 point of each other I'd be inclined to compare momentum and energy before declaring a winner. I think both are capable rounds.

ivanimal
11-29-2012, 9:02 AM
With TKOF and TSP within 1 point of each other I'd be inclined to compare momentum and energy before declaring a winner. I think both are capable rounds.

Therefore capacity, durability, carry ability and ease of reloading make the decision easy for me.

Oceanbob
11-29-2012, 9:25 AM
Therefore capacity, durability, carry ability and ease of reloading make the decision easy for me.

Exacty^^^^^

I have owned both platforms for decades and I consider the .357 magnum and 10MM about the same with a slight edge to the 10MM.

I enjoy shooting 10MM, hot or not. Having 15 rounds (16 if I carry hot, which I don't) available that pushes over 700 foot pounds of energy is fine for me. My Glock 20SF carry-set-up is one package that I can go swimming with just after mud wrestling two babes. :D

It runs dirty and wet all day long.


My .357 magnum wheel gun in stainless is heavy, kicks hard (no slide to soak up recoil) LOUDER THAN HELL (WHAT DID YOU SAY?)...only 6 rounds and to equal the power of the 10MM I have to run some really hot, uncomfortable loads thru it. Add in that it is a collector weapon that I don't want to get dirty or wet. Also, the holster will be ungainly and the weight will drag on me all day long. So it sits in the safe for my kids to fight over when I start drooling.:)


I reload .40 and 10MM..have a dedicated machine just for this purpose. I used to reload 38/.357 years ago but honestly except for shooting my Marlin lever gun in .357, I don't have the need to reload .357.


JMO. YMMV.

NytWolf
11-29-2012, 9:41 AM
I'm with Oceanbob on the 10mm, except I don't reload.

I haven't owned the 10mm as long as he has, but I've owned the 357 mag longer. The reason why I have the 10mm is because I was looking for a replacement for the 357. Anyone who says the 357 is hotter than the 10mm is just really reaching. I'd take the 10mm over the 357 anyday. And no, it's not because of capacity either. Because if I actually wanted to stay with the 357, I can get a Desert Eagle in a 357.

redcliff
11-29-2012, 9:45 AM
I've got no dog in this hunt, I carry a .44 mag in the woods. Choose whatever makes you happy.

m98
11-29-2012, 3:43 PM
If you took the oppurtunity to actually look at the numbers he posted, it is in fact more powerful than 10mm.



Except revolvers aren't limited to 6 rounds anymore ;)


So then its rifle vs pistol? 18" barrel vs pistola

Riiight.....

hill billy
11-29-2012, 3:50 PM
With TKOF and TSP within 1 point of each other I'd be inclined to compare momentum and energy before declaring a winner. I think both are capable rounds.

Best statement in the thread. One may be more powerful than the other or not but the difference is so marginal as to be negligible.

sberley
11-29-2012, 10:02 PM
I suggest you try the g20 before getting too deep into analyzing which to buy. It's a great gun, but to handle such a large round the grip is quite large - even for some with large hands. So, that could make your decision for you.

jm13690
11-29-2012, 10:23 PM
Well if I were to go G20 route it will either be a G20sf or I would wait a for a G20 Gen 4, supposedly they will be available in a month or so. To me a good fit gun is worth the extra $75 it would cost to get one through SSE.

jm13690
11-30-2012, 4:15 PM
I would not care at all about capacity. Which one can you shoot faster while still maintaining accuracy?

Enough training either would be fine.

paul0660
11-30-2012, 4:27 PM
I have owned both platforms for decades and I consider the .357 magnum and 10MM about the same with a slight edge to the 10MM.

And haven't shot anyone with either, so............what?

I can go swimming with just after mud wrestling two babes.

Which never happened........so..........what?

I would not care at all about capacity.

I will take capacity over training anytime.

schneiderguy
11-30-2012, 6:16 PM
So then its rifle vs pistol? 18" barrel vs pistola

Riiight.....

No. Try again. Sound out the words, if you have to.

The best argument against 10mm in this thread is that the people recommending it are completely incapable of basic reading comprehension :facepalm:

For the record, I do think it is a better option in this situation, for capacity reasons - but saying it is more powerful than .357 is not true.

ivanimal
12-01-2012, 1:28 AM
No. Try again. Sound out the words, if you have to.

The best argument against 10mm in this thread is that the people recommending it are completely incapable of basic reading comprehension :facepalm:

For the record, I do think it is a better option in this situation, for capacity reasons - but saying it is more powerful than .357 is not true.

Be very careful my friend................:mad:

Oceanbob
12-01-2012, 7:19 AM
Well if I were to go G20 route it will either be a G20sf or I would wait a for a G20 Gen 4, supposedly they will be available in a month or so. To me a good fit gun is worth the extra $75 it would cost to get one through SSE.

A great idea...

The East Coast (certain States in Ed's Public Safetys distribution area) already have the GEN4. Plenty of people on various 10MM boards have this new model and they love it. !

I will get one to match my Gen4 Glock 21. Probably my best bet is when they become available in Oklahoma, then my adult daughter can gift one to me without the SSE stuff. :)

http://i50.tinypic.com/2itn3om.jpg

GW
12-01-2012, 10:25 AM
15 rds (ok 10 for you folks) vs 6 or 7? i'm going with the semi. and after seeing the vids of the g20 making hits at 200+ yards the revolver really has no edge in long range work either if the shooter does his part. maybe with a 10" bbl

This.
Capacity would be the deciding issue for me as well. Do you really want to have to reload in thick brush with an angry wounded pig looking for you? And even if you need to reload, it will be a helluva lot easier with a magazine than with a speedloader or one at a time.
Get the Glock!

Socalman
12-01-2012, 12:17 PM
First of all the original poster is from California (Hollister) so he will be legally limited to rounds in his magazine. Now if he is working and suddenly a mountain lion goes for his dog, he can pull out a .357 (Ruger GP 100 my choice) and take care of the critter with one round. You can get 180 grain HP from a number of sources; I understand Buffalo Bore has some 200 grain in .357. How many times do you intend to miss? He is not talking about going into war, but being prepared for the wildlife often encountered in Calif. foothills.

The .357 ammo or even .38 has a huge cost advantage over the 10mm, though if you are loading your own, I have no idea what the savings would be.

Oceanbob
12-01-2012, 1:19 PM
First of all the original poster is from California (Hollister) so he will be legally limited to rounds in his magazine. Now if he is working and suddenly a mountain lion goes for his dog, he can pull out a .357 (Ruger GP 100 my choice) and take care of the critter with one round. You can get 180 grain HP from a number of sources; I understand Buffalo Bore has some 200 grain in .357. How many times do you intend to miss? He is not talking about going into war, but being prepared for the wildlife often encountered in Calif. foothills.

The .357 ammo or even .38 has a huge cost advantage over the 10mm, though if you are loading your own, I have no idea what the savings would be.

Well, a high percentage of people legally own normal capacity (called Hi Cap now) magazines and won't have any problems with a 15 round Magazine in a Glock 20. I really like the Ruger GP100 except for the weight and 6 round limit.

Underwood also makes a nice 220 grain 10MM woods round that would work.

http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto.aspx

I guess it boils down to what platfrom you prefer and of course, either choice will work out on the trail. :D

451040
12-01-2012, 1:51 PM
Except revolvers aren't limited to 6 rounds anymore ;)


15 or 20 rounds of 10 mm > 8 rounds of .357 magnum