View Full Version : Question about forward Pistol grips

11-25-2012, 5:44 PM
I've been under the impression that no pistols could have a forward pistol grip. Then I stumbled upon this link: http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

I'm still a little confused. I have a home-built AR-15 pistol, with an 11.5" upper and a 7" buffer tube. Along with the muzzle break it comes out to an overall length of 28". Does this letter mean that it would be legal to add a forward pistol grip to it, since it's above 26"? Or did I just read this wrong?

11-25-2012, 6:08 PM
No, you didn't read it wrong, you are GTG with a VFG as your firearm is a Title I Other, just like the XO-26 and just like my Title I Other. My local GS sells them now, heck even Turners sells them. Assuming your muzzle brake isn't welded and pinned, measure without it on. As long as you clear 26", which I think you will, (mine is about 26 1/4"), GTG or weld and pin your brake.

I would print a copy of the letter and keep it in your gun case when you go to ranges, most LEO are going to not be clued in on this letter and the ruling. Really, there is nothing in California law that precludes adding a VFG to a pistol, it is all Federal law/ATF anyway and this is an ATF letter that Franklin received.

11-26-2012, 5:58 AM
Under Federal laws...
Title 1 handgun can not have a vertical forward grip installed on it, unless it is made into a Title 2 AOW.
Title 1 handgun can have an angled forward grip and/or a horizontal forward grip installed on it.

A firearm that does not have a shoulder stock and has a overall length of over 26" and a barrel length of less than 16" is a Title 1 other firearm.

Title 1 other firearm can legally have a vertical forward grip installed on it, because it is not a Title 1 handgun.

Under CA laws...
A firearm with a less than 16" barrel is a handgun.

It is not legal for a semi-auto pistol that uses detachable magazines to have a second handgrip (horiztonal/angled/vertical) attached to it.
It is legal for a semi-auto pistol that uses a fixed magazine or any non-semi-auto handgun to have a second handgrip attached to it.

It's legal under Federal & CA laws, because...
It is a Title 1 other firearm.
It is a semi-auto pistol that uses a fixed magazine.

11-26-2012, 6:49 AM
Thanks for clarifying the actual PC Quiet. I knew it was legal but you phrased it much more precisely.

11-26-2012, 9:35 AM
Thank you guys very much for clarifying this. I really appreciate it. It helped a lot.

I do have one more follow up question though. The overall length doesn't include the removable muzzle break? So if I come up bellow 26" I have to weld my muzzle break or get a longer buffer tube? What is legally considered non-removable? You said I have to pin it? I couldn't just jb weld or tack weld it?

11-26-2012, 11:09 AM
I don't think welding the brake so that it counts as overall length has been addressed by the ATF or has been much discussed before here as far as this specific configuration. If you're lucky Franklin will comment since they have dealt with the ATF the most on this configuration.

If something like the RRA pistol tube (which is rather long for pistol tubes) will bring you above 26" without the brake then I'd go that route though.

11-26-2012, 8:17 PM
I will look into rra pistol tubes. It just sucks because my overall length minus the muzzle break is 25.5", and with it it's 28". Hopefully the rra will bring the length up 1/2 an inch. I was just kinda hoping the overall length included the muzzle break, since I'm already 2" past the minimum.