PDA

View Full Version : I'll never understand the hate for Taurus ever again.


drifter2be
11-25-2012, 4:51 PM
After a lot of trial and error I now have a pair of EDC guns that I absolutely cannot fault. And they are both made by Taurus.

The first is the Taurus PT709 slim and the other is a Taurus PT738

http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac130/88_7mge/A04CBA12-AB63-49D6-A8A6-C86A29EAAD20-2565-000001FBFD5F10B7.jpg

Was lucky enough to be able to get them both in the stainless steel finish, so I have a matched pair.

Took both to the range shortly after purchasing them earlier this morning. I have a lot to compare both guns to as I have gone through several single stack concealable 9mm and .380 pistols.

I'm comparing the PT709 to the Ruger LC9 and KelTec PF-9
I'm comparing the PT738 to the Ruger LCP and Diamondback DB380

I'll start with build quality and saying that the Taurus build quality is on par or even slightly better than the other pistols I have tried. Both feel more solid in my hand than the others I have owned. My last Ruger LC9 had a lot of tooling marks on the inside of the slide, as did my PF-9, my PT709 has no discernible tooling marks, finish is beautiful, as goes for my PT738, although neither of my other pocket 380s had any visible tooling marks on them either.

Triggers...The Taurus pistols are clear winners in this aspect compared to anything else I have shot in these categories. The LC9 and PF-9 had two of the absolute crappiest triggers I have ever pulled on a gun. Excessive length of pull and horrible stacking at the end of the pull with the point that it breaks being almost impossible to predict. The PT709 while the trigger pull is slightly long, still half the length of either other gun I am comparing it to, it is almost all take-up in SA and when you get to a point where there is actual pressure it felt very similar to the factory trigger on my G19, with a similarly short reset, vs having to let the trigger ALL THE WAY BACK OUT THERE like the LC9 and PF9 require, which allows for very fast follow up shots.

The PT738 trigger is very similar to the LCP and DB380, with the exception of it feeling much lighter and smoother than the LCP, although the DB380 trigger was about on par with the PT738. The DB380 won as far as sights go, because it had true sights with the typical 3-dot setup, the Taurus came in second with relatively useable sights, that were noticeably raised from the top of the slide, relatively easy to line up, and the LCP in last place with an almost not there hump for a front sight and tiny notch in the rear for a rear sight. The Taurus beat both other guns in the fact that unlike almost every other 380 pocket gun in that it not only has a slide stop lever, but it has a last round hold open. Some might not consider that a necessary feature on a pocket gun, but I find it bothersome that Ruger would put a slide stop lever on their gun and not add the insignificant amount of metal necessary to give their gun a last round hold open.

I could go on, but these are what really jumped out at me at the range today. None of the guns listed are really any more or less concealable than the others, but I found the Taurus guns to be 100% reliable through the 200 rounds I put through the 9mm and 100 rounds I put through the 380 today, more user friendly and easier to shoot than the others I have tried.

I've never been a gun-snob(except with true low-budget companies like Hi-point or the other saturday night special manufacturers), although I have passed on Taurus pistols before thinking they weren't the best, but these two guns have changed my opinions. I've got two nice guns that I picked up used for about the out the door cost of a single Gen3 Glock that I am sure will give me many years of reliable service.

neouser
11-25-2012, 4:56 PM
I like Taurus pistols. I owned a stainless M85 snubby that I regretfully sold off years ago and I just sold my PT908, not because it wasn't a good gun, but because it gave my tubby hands hammer bite like nobody's business. (Firing one magazine would have blood running down my wrist.) Both were relatively reliable and felt good in hand.

LMTluvr
11-25-2012, 5:04 PM
I don't understand the " hate" thing period. If one doesn't like a particular make or model of weapon then.. Don't buy it! But don't knock the next person for buying it. If they like the weapon and can hit the broadside of a barn, mission accomplished. Most be a " I'm superior complex" thing or something. Kinda like the " more money always equates to better weapon crowd".
Back to topic nice weapons. I've never owned a Taurus but one of my old buddies had several. Nice trigger, accurate. Seemed a great weapon.

ElvenSoul
11-25-2012, 5:07 PM
They do a good job on autos I give them that. Now revolvers not so much.

checkenbach
11-25-2012, 5:14 PM
They do what they're supposed to do at the price point they're at, just like bikes. Revo's are a bit rough inside compared to a S&W. Not everyone wants or can afford an Ed Brown or Colt.

Bigtwin
11-25-2012, 5:15 PM
Drifter, very nice find, I am glad to hear you like them.
I have a Taurus 66 revolver that I have owned for 4 years and it functions flawless, I realy love it and after a few other folks shooting it 2 have bought one for themselves.

cnj
11-25-2012, 5:17 PM
They do a good job on autos I give them that. Now revolvers not so much.

Well, I don't know any more.... other than a stiff D/A trigger pull, my new model 94 .22lr is every bit as accurate (if not slightly more so) than my new Ruger SP101-22lr. The Taurus has a 5 inch barrel compared to the Ruger's 4.2, so sight radius could be a small factor. Build quality of the Taurus is also on par. Long term, IDK. I guess we'll see.....

Josh.Ollar
11-25-2012, 5:21 PM
ive been looking at a pocket carry 9mm from taurus but taurus doesnt have very many pistols on the CA list

i think taurus is a relieable weapon at a good price

12voltguy
11-25-2012, 5:35 PM
I don't understand the " hate" thing period. If one doesn't like a particular make or model of weapon then.. Don't buy it! But don't knock the next person for buying it. If they like the weapon and can hit the broadside of a barn, mission accomplished. Most be a " I'm superior complex" thing or something. Kinda like the " more money always equates to better weapon crowd".
Back to topic nice weapons. I've never owned a Taurus but one of my old buddies had several. Nice trigger, accurate. Seemed a great weapon.

there is more to it then that
I've had a few PT99 back in 1985 it was great
in 95 I had a 945 was great

seen a guy that works at a shop last year & he always said he sends way to many back for warranty repair, remember it being there revolvers
So it's not a black & white thing, it's got some Grey in there too.:p

paul0660
11-25-2012, 5:38 PM
They do a good job on autos I give them that. Now revolvers not so much..

My experience with their revolver has been fine, as in, no issues in almost 30 years. I don't think I ever touched one of their autos, yet.

The hate thing is funny because most haters seem to have never touched one, and are regurgitating popular opinion to justify spending more, maybe much more, on S&W.

It is important to note that there are S&W J-frames available for the same price as Taurii. When the guns get bigger, the price differential gets a lot bigger.

Also important to note that Taurus customer support supposedly takes 2 months to turn around, which I think is unacceptable.

Fatgunman
11-25-2012, 6:13 PM
I used to have a pt-99 and it was a great gun it never jammed on me and was a lot of fun to shoot

drifter2be
11-25-2012, 8:21 PM
They do a good job on autos I give them that. Now revolvers not so much.

I don't know about the revolver comment. I have shot a couple model 85 revolvers and every one of them has functioned flawlessly. My GF has a Rossi 461, which is made for Braztech under contract by Taurus, and the gun has never had a single problem, shoots factory .38, .38+P and .357mag without a problem, including the various handloads I have fed it in the past few months, and is dang accurate for a snub-nose, too. The only other revolvers I have ever owned were a S&W 442, which I sold, and a Ruger LCR, my usual carry gun, but if I ever bought a revolver as a pure range gun, my first consideration would probably be a Taurus.

JeremyS
11-25-2012, 8:52 PM
Looks good, drifter! You'll have to update with a longer-term report at some point. I'd still like you to shoot a Bodyguard so you can tell me which I should go with at some point :p


I think a lot of people might be surprised to find out that their high-dollar guns have parts in them that were contract manufactured by Taurus. Just so happens that they run a huge factory with forging and molding (including metal injection molding, MIM) and lots of CNC and other capabilities (tennifer and other treatments and coatings, etc) in-house. A LOT of other companies use them to make components for their own guns, from polymer frames to forgings to small parts like anything MIM.

I had a PT111 (9mm Millenium Pro) for close to two years and liked the gun quite a bit. It was accurate and extremely reliable. Fed, fired, and ejected anything I fed it including light weight copper hollowpoints on up to 147 grain stuff and metal cased Russian ammo and everything in between. It was light and thin and had very controllable recoil considering. Trigger was good for a true DA trigger and it was comfortable in the hand. No complaints.

...Also important to note that Taurus customer support supposedly takes 2 months to turn around...

So I did have to send my Taurus, mentioned above, to Taurus USA in Miami for warranty work once. My friend pulled really hard on the trigger with the safety on and it slightly bent the trigger bar. It still worked, but the trigger sometimes didn't reset if you let it out gently. It was juuust bent out of spec and, back then, I wasn't comfortable enough w/ pistols to fix this myself, which I probably would today. Anyway, I contacted Taurus and they e-mailed me a shipping label. I printed it out, slapped it on the box, and then gun went to Taurus. Two weeks later it was back on my porch, totally fixed and looking new. Never had a hitch after that. No charge for shipping either way, no questions asked. Their lifetime warranty (regardless of whether you are the original purchaser or not) worked just fine for me and I was happy with the turnaround.




All that said... would I own a Taurus today? ehhhhh probably not. I'd consider that .380 though if I needed a true pocket pistol (my Nano comes close and does work in the front pocket but it's just on the large side for that for me), and I'd be choosing between it and the S&W Bodyguard.

I do actually really like the look of the 809 quite a lot. But... there just isn't room for it when I have an SP-01 and other medium- and full-sized 9mm's.


http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/809B_2.jpg


Good kit for the $$$

http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/809B_4.jpg

drifter2be
11-25-2012, 9:15 PM
Looks good, drifter! You'll have to update with a longer-term report at some point. I'd still like you to shoot a Bodyguard so you can tell me which I should go with at some point :p


I think a lot of people might be surprised to find out that their high-dollar guns have parts in them that were contract manufactured by Taurus. Just so happens that they run a huge factory with forging and molding (including metal injection molding, MIM) and lots of CNC and other capabilities (tennifer and other treatments and coatings, etc) in-house. A LOT of other companies use them to make components for their own guns, from polymer frames to forgings to small parts like anything MIM.

I had a PT111 (9mm Millenium Pro) for close to two years and liked the gun quite a bit. It was accurate and extremely reliable. Fed, fired, and ejected anything I fed it including light weight copper hollowpoints on up to 147 grain stuff and metal cased Russian ammo and everything in between. It was light and thin and had very controllable recoil considering. Trigger was good for a true DA trigger and it was comfortable in the hand. No complaints.



So I did have to send my Taurus, mentioned above, to Taurus USA in Miami for warranty work once. My friend pulled really hard on the trigger with the safety on and it slightly bent the trigger bar. It still worked, but the trigger sometimes didn't reset if you let it out gently. It was juuust bent out of spec and, back then, I wasn't comfortable enough w/ pistols to fix this myself, which I probably would today. Anyway, I contacted Taurus and they e-mailed me a shipping label. I printed it out, slapped it on the box, and then gun went to Taurus. Two weeks later it was back on my porch, totally fixed and looking new. Never had a hitch after that. No charge for shipping either way, no questions asked. Their lifetime warranty (regardless of whether you are the original purchaser or not) worked just fine for me and I was happy with the turnaround.




All that said... would I own a Taurus today? ehhhhh probably not. I'd consider that .380 though if I needed a true pocket pistol (my Nano comes close and does work in the front pocket but it's just on the large side for that for me), and I'd be choosing between it and the S&W Bodyguard.

I do actually really like the look of the 809 quite a lot. But... there just isn't room for it when I have an SP-01 and other medium- and full-sized 9mm's.


http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/809B_2.jpg


Good kit for the $$$

http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/809B_4.jpg

I wish I could find a range that had a bodyguard 380 rental, but I doubt I will ever come across one, who goes to the range wanting to rent a pocket size .380, other than the few who are on the fence about buying one. I did dry-fire one in the gun store earlier this week. Trigger was probably the heaviest I have ever tired on a pocketable .380, without actually measuring it I would say somewhere around 8#'s, much heavier than any of the others I had tried, and I don't know how one could go about lightening the pull. It was smooth though, about as smooth as the Diamondback and the Taurus triggers, but the weight just killed it for me, I could see the laser move when I pulled the trigger. For the cost you could buy the base model TCP which sells for about $200 with a single mag and buy a crimson trace laser for it and be right about the same cost as the bodyguard. I've also read a lot of reviews and forum commentary about the insight laser being garbage and having a lot of issues.