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MattyB
11-25-2012, 4:29 PM
I looked over the wiki and tried a few searches to find the answer not to mention Im positive its has been asked but, do locked secure container rules apply for a disassembled pistol? Meaning, frame in unloaded and slide is removed.

I was thinking if the weapon is consider "parts" at that point, it alleviates some vague parts of the law about what "secure" and "locked" actually mean in court (not to us and the 10yr old boy rule).

Just hoping for an answer of it still needs to be in the locked case or it doesn't. I always travel with my Glock unloaded and case locked but considering the BS in the State figured a more definitive and safe (legally speaking) traveling option may be available.

Brandon04GT
11-25-2012, 4:31 PM
I'm pretty sure you have to transport the actual part legally considered the "firearm" like such.

artoaster
11-25-2012, 4:41 PM
Good question. If all parts are present, in a state of take-down as in field stripped, my own logic would be to have pistol frame and slide separate and at least the receiver in a locked case as per law.

Here's the theory on that, it could construed that one did not have the locking case necessary to comply with the law so he simply field stripped it to get by the intent of the law.

However, if it were shown that the firearm could not be made functional due to missing components no where near the vicinity of said pistol then the locked case law could be unreasonable or unnecessary.

That's not a lawyer talking so it doesn't mean anything. It is rather the impressions of a peer who may serve as juror only.

Freq18Hz
11-25-2012, 4:41 PM
The part of your firearm which is considered the firearm (semi auto pistols almost always = frame, AR15's and rifles almost always = the lower receiver) must always be handled in accordance with all federal and state laws. It doesn't matter if it's just a bare frame, or a bare lower, you must always treat it as a firearm or you are at risk of being charged with a felony, misdemeanor.

-Freq

artoaster
11-25-2012, 4:53 PM
The part of your firearm which is considered the firearm (semi auto pistols almost always = frame, AR15's and rifles almost always = the lower receiver) must always be handled in accordance with all federal and state laws. It doesn't matter if it's just a bare frame, or a bare lower, you must always treat it as a firearm or you are at risk of being charged with a felony, misdemeanor.

-Freq

So, the theory there is that the receiver must be in a locked container due more to possession concerns than a functioning of firearm concern?

That's interesting to consider bare frames and bare receivers as needing locked case. Where's the link or section of PC?

My quick search only finds that "assault weapon" receivers must be locked.

corcoraj2002
11-25-2012, 5:01 PM
Firearms require a locked container. For auto pistol the frame is the firearm. So you need to transport that in a locked container. It has been spelled out here quite plainly.

Search for firearm transportation then look up the definition of a firearm.

CSACANNONEER
11-25-2012, 5:04 PM
So, the theory there is that the receiver must be in a locked container due more to possession concerns than a functioning of firearm concern?

That's interesting to consider bare frames and bare receivers as needing locked case. Where's the link or section of PC?

"Theory"? I would call it the letter of the law. There isn't a link or PC regarding just a frame. However, just a frame is a legal firearm and all laws which pertain to all firearms pertain to all legal firearms period. The reason you can't find anything about "just a frame" is simple, there aren't any. Got it? There are no exceptions for "just a frame but still a legal firearm" so, you have to treat the firearm just like any other firearm of it's kind no matter what condition it is in. It's a pretty simple concept.

artoaster
11-25-2012, 5:08 PM
OK.

Librarian
11-25-2012, 5:13 PM
What you want at the wiki is the article on 'definition of a firearm' -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Definition_of_a_firearm/gun

Disassembled firearms are still firearms, and must be transported using the rules for that kind of firearm.

MattyB
11-25-2012, 5:15 PM
Think I got my answer. It goes in a locked case no ifs, and's or but's. To be honest Im glad I asked because I wasnt aware that even if I wasnt transporting an entire weapon (taking it to get repaired ect ect) I am still under the same requirements.

Figured it was a C.Y.A. question but it still goes full circle back to the semi vagueness of what is A)locked and B) secure..

BTW I ***umed that an incomplete pistol was any different than an incomplete weapon of any other sort (like an AR lower) when I should have known better. I tend to focus on the Scary Black Rifle rules much more than pistols when they are both treated as nuclear weapons by the State.

Freq18Hz
11-25-2012, 5:42 PM
Think I got my answer. It goes in a locked case no ifs, and's or but's. To be honest Im glad I asked because I wasnt aware that even if I wasnt transporting an entire weapon (taking it to get repaired ect ect) I am still under the same requirements.

Figured it was a C.Y.A. question but it still goes full circle back to the semi vagueness of what is A)locked and B) secure..

BTW I ***umed that an incomplete pistol was any different than an incomplete weapon of any other sort (like an AR lower) when I should have known better. I tend to focus on the Scary Black Rifle rules much more than pistols when they are both treated as nuclear weapons by the State.

Literally, to use your scary black rifle example: If you buy just a lower, unbuilt (meaning no parts, just a hollow hunk of metal) you have to walk out of a dealer with cable lock around it. If you were to hurt someone with it, it would be assault with a deadly weapon / attempted murder with a firearm.

-Freq

Librarian
11-25-2012, 10:15 PM
Literally, to use your scary black rifle example: If you buy just a lower, unbuilt (meaning no parts, just a hollow hunk of metal) you have to walk out of a dealer with cable lock around it.

If you were to hurt someone with it, it would be assault with a deadly weapon / attempted murder with a firearm.

-Freq
True the first - but that's not a transport issue, that's a law imposed on FFLs, who may not deliver a gun without a safety device (see full info at the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Locks.2C _Safes.2C_and_Laws); after you take the weapon, that lock has no further gun-related use in California.

And the second might be true; I'm aware of a Federal case or two where 'using a firearm in a crime' was argued successfully when the firearm in question was payment in a drug deal (or something like that). Haven't heard of it in CA, but won't claim it's unlikely.