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View Full Version : HAYWARD PD chief warns ice cream truck drivers to not sell...


ldivinag
07-30-2007, 8:41 PM
toy guns that look realistic.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/dailyreview/localnews/ci_6498442

the story was in the front page of the daily rev. pic was a handgun with an orange tip, as required by law.

but the story mentioned that the mother who started the thing said her kid's toy was missing it...

huh?

artherd
07-30-2007, 8:50 PM
Er, well, the orange tip is required by law.

But I would like very much to know the theroey of law under which Mr. Lowe belives he can compell furthur restrictions than law allows?

Solidmch
07-30-2007, 9:10 PM
He is playing to the press. He can say whatever he wants. The Oakland Tribune/Argus/Daily Review... are all the same paper with the same anti gun idiots working for them.

wilit
07-30-2007, 10:18 PM
He is playing to the press. He can say whatever he wants. The Oakland Tribune/Argus/Daily Review... are all the same paper with the same anti gun idiots working for them.

My GF is the Editor of one of those papers and I would really appreciate it if you would not call her an "anti-gun idiot." She is very pro-gun, and not an idiot. In fact she made it out to the last shoot-n-q. I don't recall seeing you there.

Dont Tread on Me
07-30-2007, 10:39 PM
But I would like very much to know the theroey of law under which Mr. Lowe belives he can compell furthur restrictions than law allows?

I was in Reeds indoor range a few months back a listened to a LEO proudly proclaim that he would arrest anybody transporting a gun in a locked container that was not "hard plastic or metal."

Why is it LEOs seam to think they can just make up the law? Don't they go through some kind of training process/academy where this must come up?

CCWFacts
07-30-2007, 11:06 PM
My GF is the Editor of one of those papers and I would really appreciate it if you would not call her an "anti-gun idiot." She is very pro-gun, and not an idiot. In fact she made it out to the last shoot-n-q. I don't recall seeing you there.

Yes, there are Bay Area media people who are pro-gun. It's a fact.

Anyway... perhaps this chief has no legal authority or right to be asking icecream vendors to not sell realistic toy guns, but geez, it is such a terribly bad idea for children be playing with realistic-looking toy guns. Even if it's legal, icecream vendors should not be selling them to their young customers. Yes parents are ultimately responsible, but icecream vendors are also responsible for making decisions about what they sell and what they don't sell. It's too easy for an unnecessary tragedy to happen when a child is playing with a realistic toy gun. Why shouldn't a police chief take a stand on this? He wants to do whatever he can do to reduce the possibility of one of his officers shooting a child.

artherd
07-30-2007, 11:10 PM
That could be threatening or assault, depending on how loud he was proclaiming :)

Conversely, I am free to calmly, politely factually state that I will have his badge, car, house, and pension if he so much as moves for his cuffs in an unlawful arrest he attempts to perpetrate upon me.

I was in Reeds indoor range a few months back a listened to a LEO proudly proclaim that he would arrest anybody transporting a gun in a locked container that was not "hard plastic or metal."

Why is it LEOs seam to think they can just make up the law? Don't they go through some kind of training process/academy where this must come up?

socalguns
07-31-2007, 1:18 AM
tell the kids not to remove the orange tips?

chiefcrash
07-31-2007, 7:10 AM
tell the kids not to remove the orange tips?

you know, i read this and all i could hear in my head was:

tell the gangbangers not to remove the serial numbers?

Dont Tread on Me
07-31-2007, 7:21 AM
Conversely, I am free to calmly, politely factually state that I will have his badge, car, house, and pension if he so much as moves for his cuffs in an unlawful arrest he attempts to perpetrate upon me.

I like you style. Nothing against a LEO who misunderstands our complicated laws but if someone makes up his own and knows then he deserves to loose his badge.

I just don't hear about it happening except in really bad corruption cases. I was reading a recent thread on Orange County police making up their own knife laws. Looked like a perfect example of this.

ghettoshecky
07-31-2007, 10:47 AM
I was in Reeds indoor range a few months back a listened to a LEO proudly proclaim that he would arrest anybody transporting a gun in a locked container that was not "hard plastic or metal."

Why is it LEOs seam to think they can just make up the law? Don't they go through some kind of training process/academy where this must come up?

Just to be clear here, a locked soft case is as good as a locked hard case, am I correct?

Dont Tread on Me
07-31-2007, 10:50 AM
Just to be clear here, a locked soft case is as good as a locked hard case, am I correct?

Yes. The law only requires it to be a locked container. I'm using this as an example of the LEO expanding the law all on his own. He also made comments about ammo being in a separate locked container which again is more than the law requires.

The underlying problem is there appears to be no negative feedback to a LEO running around making up his own interpretation on firearms laws.

glockman19
07-31-2007, 10:53 AM
sounds like a case of "restraint of free trade"

ldivinag
07-31-2007, 11:27 AM
sounds like a case of "restraint of free trade"

it is...

if you read that article, the kid who was SIX YEARS old, bought the toy...

maybe my parents were just more strict than others, but i remember not being to buy anything by myself at that age...

or ever go outside to the street to buy something without them walking me...

chiefcrash
07-31-2007, 11:31 AM
Yes. The law only requires it to be a locked container. I'm using this as an example of the LEO expanding the law all on his own. He also made comments about ammo being in a separate locked container which again is more than the law requires.

The underlying problem is there appears to be no negative feedback to a LEO running around making up his own interpretation on firearms laws.

Just to add in on this one:

CA Law just says a locked container, however the FAA/TSA require a hard sided locked container for transporting a firearm on an aircraft. Much like those confused folks thinking that a bayo lug is a banned feature in CA, i think the whole "locked container must be hard sided" thing stems from confusing state laws to federal ones...

Rob P.
07-31-2007, 12:40 PM
I was in Reeds indoor range a few months back a listened to a LEO proudly proclaim that he would arrest anybody transporting a gun in a locked container that was not "hard plastic or metal."

I wonder what your friendly local LEO would do if someone were to walk by openly carrying an unloaded firearm in a belt holster? Faint?

Like you I would inform sir LEO that doing what he just prolaimed against myself would result in his and his familys total financial devastation.

Glock22Fan
07-31-2007, 2:15 PM
P.C. 12026.1 (c) reads:

"(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device."

So, the only area for disagreement (as far as I can see) can be around what is meant by "Secure."

My guess is "Unable to be easily opened with bare hands," but I might be wrong. A locked paper bag is clearly inadequate; a locked carpet bag, who knows?

chiefcrash
07-31-2007, 2:19 PM
P.C. 12026.1 (c) reads:

"(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device."

So, the only area for disagreement (as far as I can see) can be around what is meant by "Secure."

My guess is "Unable to be easily opened with bare hands," but I might be wrong. A locked paper bag is clearly inadequate; a locked carpet bag, who knows?

Yep. And that's what jury's are for (or at least, that's what the people who made the law said to themselves)

I think i actually heard of a case where someone padlocked a paper bag and called it a locked container, but that didn't hold up in court.

Now most soft sided, locked rifle case or range bag would probably hold up as "secure"

thomasanelson
07-31-2007, 2:50 PM
You guys think that's bad....In Los Angeles, ice cream trucks are legally forbidden from selling see-thru squirt guns.

Solidmch
07-31-2007, 10:41 PM
My GF is the Editor of one of those papers and I would really appreciate it if you would not call her an "anti-gun idiot." She is very pro-gun, and not an idiot. In fact she made it out to the last shoot-n-q. I don't recall seeing you there.

I meant what I said. Maybe you could get your girlfriend to have its reporters check their facts. Its funny how the reporters always seem to blame the editors. Harry Harris is the only decent reporter there. If ANG is not a liberal anti gun paper then what is??? Please educate me. Explain to me about a month ago, it might have been longer, the editor OF THE TRIBUNE talked about how we should all contact our represenitives and urge them to pass the assault weapons ban. He stated it would stop guns from coming from Nevada. How is supporting the stupid ban not anti gun? She might have diffrent ideas then her coworkers, but the majority of them are commies. Trust me when I say I have been on the recieving end of many of their screwed up biased reports. I would have loved to be at the shoot n Q, but I was in Vegas at a wedding then we went shooting in the desert. Oh by the way, I was shooting my wifes registered AR. I am at Chabot quite often. Was there last weekend.

socalguns
08-03-2007, 1:24 AM
Ha, or how's "tell FFLs to stop selling firearms"