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ghettoshecky
07-30-2007, 5:11 PM
I was planning on doing a new build when I get back down to SoCal and I was wondering if I could do it with my brother's OLL. He bought a few, but since he's out of state (military) his OLLs are not being used. Rather than purchasing new OLLs I thought it would just be prudent to use his. Of course he's okay with it and in fact encourages me to not buy anymore lowers for now. Is it okay to just use and pretty much keep his OLLs as mine if our parents are Cali residents too? Does there have to be paperwork or any fees at all?

ldivinag
07-30-2007, 5:47 PM
only if you are prohibited from possessing them... i.e, felon...

bwiese
07-30-2007, 5:53 PM
OLL-based rifles are ordinary long guns.

Infrequent lending of ordinary (non-AW) firearms between parties known to each other, and not in a prohibited category, for a period of up to 30 days, is allowed under 12078PC (I think I got that section# correct.)

If the firearm is a handgun, the lendee must hold an HSC card.

Since this appears to be an ongoing, more-than-30-days gig, I'd encourage you to go paper things and do it right.

An argument could be made for when did the 30 day loan period start or restart, what constitutes infrequent vs. regular, etc. but I think for this it's best to follow things closely since your brother's outta town for awhile.

Surveyor
07-30-2007, 5:56 PM
Long guns can be loaned indefinately. It's a loan from your brother.


*Edit: Sorry, I read the law wrong. An indefinte loan would only be okay if it were your parents' gun.*

pnkssbtz
07-30-2007, 5:59 PM
OLL-based rifles are ordinary long guns.

Infrequent lending of ordinary (non-AW) firearms between parties known to each other, and not in a prohibited category, for a period of up to 30 days, is allowed under 12078PC (I think I got that section# correct.)

If the firearm is a handgun, the lendee must hold an HSC card.

Since this appears to be an ongoing, more-than-30-days gig, I'd encourage you to go paper things and do it right.

An argument could be made for when did the 30 day loan period start or restart, what constitutes infrequent vs. regular, etc. but I think for this it's best to follow things closely since your brother's outta town for awhile.

What if he and his brother both live in the same place, and he stores the rifle when he is done in his brother safe. Wouldn't the lending period cease as soon as returned to his brother safe?

And if so, couldn't he just periodically ask his brother to re-borrow it?

bwiese
07-30-2007, 6:45 PM
What if he and his brother both live in the same place, and he stores the rifle when he is done in his brother safe. Wouldn't the lending period cease as soon as returned to his brother safe?

It's pretty well documented his brother's out of the area for an extended basis on military duty. That could be seen as the non-owner's control and essential ownership, esp if way beyond 30 days.

And if so, couldn't he just periodically ask his brother to re-borrow it?

The word 'infrequent' is there for a reason. "Auto-resetting 30 day loans" likely won't fly if something happened and ownership of firearm questioned.

If these two guys have a parent or grandparent alive and in California and a California resident and legally eligible to own/transfer firearms, the rifle could be transferred paper-free between brothers using the parent as an intermediary (brother1=>dad=>brother2).

If no such specific relative (parent or grandparent only - child/grandchild wouldn't work because one of the brothers would then be an uncle or great uncle, which is not a specific relation allowed for CA 'interfamily' transfers)
were alive, in CA and firearms eligible, then the two brothers should paper their transfer.

hoffmang
07-30-2007, 7:16 PM
To be more precise about the real risks however, to the extent you would borrow and shoot any other rifle of your brothers, OLL are no different.

-Gene

ghettoshecky
07-30-2007, 7:16 PM
If these two guys have a parent or grandparent alive and in California and a California resident and legally eligible to own/transfer firearms, the rifle could be transferred paper-free between brothers using the parent as an intermediary (brother1=>dad=>brother2).



Yeah so thats the law I was wondering about. Both our parents are California residents who are eligible to own a firearm. So I can legally take ownership of the gun w/o documentation. Thanks Bill.

bwiese
07-30-2007, 7:17 PM
Yeah so thats the law I was wondering about. Both our parents are California residents who are eligible to own a firearm. So I can legally take ownership of the gun w/o documentation. Thanks Bill.

Yes, as long as everyone agrees that brother gives it to dad who gives it to you.

stator
07-31-2007, 4:27 PM
Yeah so thats the law I was wondering about. Both our parents are California residents who are eligible to own a firearm. So I can legally take ownership of the gun w/o documentation. Thanks Bill.

Just make sure ownership passes through either your mother or father and that all parties involved (your brother, either your mother or father, and yourself) are are allowed to own firearms AND all are CA residents. You can do this without any paperwork or FFL involved.

Your brother being military subjected to the UCMJ can declare any state his residence regardless of where he is stationed. Hopefully, he has declared CA and votes in absentia. If not, you also need to search ATF rules all state laws of all states involved for the transfer.

One more point, if the OLL is registered through military service, LE, or any other method that allows AW registration, the non-FFL family transfer is illegal. It would have to be transferred at a DOJ-approved AW FFL.

This state's gun laws are a pain in the arse, no?

ghettoshecky
07-31-2007, 11:25 PM
Your brother being military subjected to the UCMJ can declare any state his residence regardless of where he is stationed. Hopefully, he has declared CA and votes in absentia. If not, you also need to search ATF rules all state laws of all states involved for the transfer.


This state's gun laws are a pain in the arse, no?

He bought them before he joined up, so I'm assuming if there ever was case I can easily prove that he was a resident at the time of purchase and it was directly transferred to parents then to me.