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mwarren2
07-30-2007, 1:01 PM
The following was just posted on ePay. Another restriction of our
second amendment rights.

http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200707.shtml#2007-07-30094109

July 30, 2007 | 10:00AM PST/PT
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif



http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/commdev/ABMattH.jpg Matt Halprin



Hello everyone…In mid-August, we will be updating our Firearms, Weapons and Knives Policy to place more restrictions around gun-related items. Once these changes take effect, we will prohibit listings of any firearm part that is required for the firing of a gun. This includes items like bullet tips, brass casings and shells, barrels, slides, cylinders, magazines, firing pins, trigger assemblies, etc. Please read the Firearms, Weapons and Knives Policy (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/firearms-weapons-knives.html) for more details on our current policy.

As you may know, eBay does not allow the listing of any items which are regulated by individual states or the federal government; however, there are still a large number of firearm-related parts that are legal and are widely available in retail stores. These items have also historically been allowed on eBay.
After learning that some items purchased on eBay may have been used in the tragedy at Virginia Tech in April 2007, we felt that revisiting our policies was not only necessary, but the right thing to do. After much consideration, the Trust & Safety policy team – along with our executive leaders at eBay Inc. – have made the decision to further restrict more of these items than federal and state regulations require.
This new update continues to encourage safety among our community members and brings our policies in the U.S. and Canada in closer alignment with our existing policies in other markets around the globe.

Sincerely,
Matt Halprin
Vice President, Trust & Safety

lawnrevenge
07-30-2007, 1:07 PM
After learning that some items purchased on eBay may have been used in the tragedy at Virginia Tech in April 2007, we felt that revisiting our policies was not only necessary, but the right thing to do.
If ebay wants to take this road, I blame them for allowing a mentally disturbed person to buy stuff from them. VT is all ebay's fault.

jumbopanda
07-30-2007, 1:08 PM
Screw them, if they don't want people to buy and sell perfectly legal items, I'll take my business elsewhere.

shark92651
07-30-2007, 1:26 PM
This is ridiculous. I suppose next they will ban the sale of auto parts that acually help the car to move and create momentum, yet cleaning supplies and cosmetic accessories would be ok? Afterall, how could they support an industry that is responsible for far more deaths than firearms :rolleyes:

Fate
07-30-2007, 1:27 PM
The owners of gunbroker.com and auctionarms.com are doing the happy dance.

383green
07-30-2007, 1:28 PM
No more bullet tips, huh? Can I still buy and sell the bullet bases there? :popcorn:

CALI-gula
07-30-2007, 1:29 PM
Well, there was a notable slump in their business when they broadly banned the sale of many other firearm associated items the last time around - many people not able to post their firearm parts decided not to post any other items either, including 'Hello Kitty" socks.

Many tried to refute that the ban of those items at that time had nothing to do with that coinciding period where they experienced their worst revenue loss in Ebay history. Of course sales slightly bounced back in that arena, when many people realized if they just capitulated to the "AW parts" and "High-cap" bans, they could still continue to make good money on most all other firearm parts, as afterall, there are MANY diffeent types of firearms not subject to those bans which still left a lot of parts allowable. But this latest ban absolutely kills it for "Joe Regular" people, even the "Zumbo" retailers of our hobby - the woodgrainers and patina peddlers are now walking the same plank with us. Welcome to the water, mates!

Furthermore, if you get dinged for selling this stuff enough times on Ebay, or using Paypal for the transaction, your account(s) will be closed. So in essence, someone selling 150 different collectible rare coins, but also lists 5 or so Luger magazines they found in their deceased father's closet, their account is gone. Do you think they'll ever return to Ebay to sell coins? Or even be allowed to do so by these rules?

I hope Ebay execs, employees, and their shareholders are ready for the backlash and decline of revenue. It was one thing to ban the supposed AW items, and a small decrease was seen, but to outright ban most ALL firearm parts? I think the people that hung on before and swallowed that "only AW parts" pill, will finally cough and get out of Ebay altogether. A smart man would get his stock investments out of Ebay now rather than later.

With such a broad ban this time, I don't think I can possibly ever use Ebay to sell anything again. 95% of the items where I would waste my time with Ebay ARE firearm parts, so if I'm not posting those items, I simply won't take the time to post high-dollar parts for a 1964 Chevelle or 1932 Ford Model A either, or jewelry, or antiques, or artwork, or anything else.

If my posting of gun parts is 10 to 1 to those items (or more) there is simply no need for me to waste my time logging into Ebay for posting those other times at all. I can post many different magazines or barrels using the same repeatable auction format with little effort, but the other items are so individually unique, it requires creating a whole new auction each time, new photos, new indivdual descriptions, etc. So if I can't post everything of the easily duplicated items I would like to sell each week, I won't waste my time reworking a new auction listing for posting a few esoteric things which require a lot of extra work and downloads - I'll find another avenue.

And when they say "any firearm part that is required for the firing of a gun" that is VERY ambiguous as to how they will interpret items. Who is to say a grip or a stock is not needed to fire a gun? They already misinterpret gun parts and have little firearm knowledge, this can only get worse.

By example, after their ban on magazines over 10 rounds, they once banned once of my auctions for an AMT magazine in .38 Super, even though the auction description clearly noted in bold red letters the magazine was only 6 rounds and complied with their rules, Why? Merely because they thought that by installing ".38 SUPER" in my auction title, it meant I was implying and trying to secretly convey that the magazine as really a "high-capacity" magazine. :rolleyes:

brass casings and shells, barrels, slides, cylinders, magazines, firing pins, trigger assemblies, etc. -- OK, so there is really not much I can post on Ebay anymore, nor will I waste my time to post the 1/2 a dozen things that I would normally have posted while posting the nearly 5 dozen high-dollar gun parts.

They just put a big sink hole in their revenue. But hey, they're "socially progressive". Do no evil? Ummm... looks like you just did a great BIG evil to your shareholders, their bank accounts, and many peoples' small businesses by which they rely on for income all across the country.

"Do no evil"? - That was VERY evil. :mad:


.

Shane916
07-30-2007, 1:32 PM
eBay's loss. If they wanna be a bunch of tree huggin' hippy's then let em. Hopefully this will allow GunBroker to grow.

dfletcher
07-30-2007, 1:34 PM
Well, that's it for me & EBay & PayPal - exactly how do I 1) Tell them this stinks & is the reason I'm leaving and 2) opt out of PayPal?

Michael303
07-30-2007, 2:07 PM
They are really just codifying what they have been doing for quite some time. I’ve had auctions for bayonets and other ancillary parts taken down as violations of their rules. At least with these new regs, when they remove auctions they will have an overly broad policy to point to.

dfletcher
07-30-2007, 2:14 PM
They are really just codifying what they have been doing for quite some time. I’ve had auctions for bayonets and other ancillary parts taken down as violations of their rules. At least with these new regs, when they remove auctions they will have an overly broad policy to point to.

They are doing more than that - there has never been a problem with brass or bullets or 10 round magazines. All those and many other items - aside from sights and safeties I don't know that there's a heck of a lot on a gun that doesn't contribute to it being fired - are now forbidden and they have a very broad brush with which to eliminate almost any gun item.

The hell with them - I made it about 50 years without them and did fine.

BTW, I guess they could ban safeties also since they conribute to the gun being fired - when they're flipped off.

JALLEN
07-30-2007, 2:23 PM
I canceled my registration with eBay months ago, and never did use PayPal... in fact, I refuse to have anything to do with Paypal, even to the point of insisting that none of my transactions are processed through Paypal. I would not bid on items where the Seller "prefers" Paypal unless another alternative at no extra cost was acceptable.

They are free, of course, to follow whatever policies they think enhance their business, and so am I.

xenophobe
07-30-2007, 2:47 PM
The Ebay 2.0 interface, feedback, and hidden bidders policy really sucks too.

CALI-gula
07-30-2007, 2:50 PM
They are really just codifying what they have been doing for quite some time. I’ve had auctions for bayonets and other ancillary parts taken down as violations of their rules. At least with these new regs, when they remove auctions they will have an overly broad policy to point to.


No; bayonets (which they believe immediately indicates "Assault Weapon" even if on a French MAS 1936) and certain gun parts they deemed as having been "military" derived, have been banned for quite some time, and it has been in their regulations. Likewise, these items they are now banning are specifically noted as "Permitted" and still SHOW as permitted in their "Prohibited Items" rules.


Since many firearm-related items, gun parts, gun accessories, paintball equipment and accessories, stun guns, crossbows, airsoft equipment and accessories, hand weapons and throwing knives are not permitted on eBay, sellers must carefully review the ‘Some Examples’ section below before listing these items and adhere to all the policies outlined.

Furthermore, because of the varied international laws related to the sale of these items, those that are permitted may only be sold on eBay U.S under the following two conditions.

The item is sold by sellers who are located in United States and
The item location is also in the United States.

Note: US sellers must offer only domestic shipping on these products, since offering global shipping will make the product available in countries where these items are prohibited.

Weapons listed on eBay U.S. must comply with the California Penal Code covering the sale of weapons. Otherwise, these items are not permitted on eBay.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation
Limits on account privileges
Account suspension
Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
Loss of PowerSeller status

Some Examples:

Firearm Parts and Accessories:

Prohibited: eBay prohibits members from listing firearms, including antique, collectible, and sport & hunting firearms as well as ammunition. This includes, but is not limited to: Assault weapon-related parts or accessories. This prohibition applies to all parts and accessories related to any firearm defined as an "assault weapon" by federal or California law. For more details on assault weapons, please visit http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/awlist.htm and http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/awguide/awguide.php.

Firearm receivers or frames, whether complete receivers and frames, components and parts of receivers and frames, or "cut" or "80%" receivers.

Parts or accessories prohibited for sale by federal or California law, including items related to short-barreled shotguns or short-barreled rifles, fully automatic weapons, large-capacity magazines, multi-burst trigger activators and camouflaging firearm containers.

Any of the following firearms-related items: silencers, converters (items that can be used to give a firearm automatic capability), kits that can be used to create a firearm, potato guns and cannons, flares, flare launchers, flare guns, flare gun receivers, short barrels and any illegal firearm-related items.

Please note that any photos in a listing (including stock photos) must also abide by our Firearms, Weapons and Knives policy. If a prohibited item is included in a photograph for a non-prohibited item, the listing may be ended.

*** Permitted: All other legal gun parts and accessories, including, but not limited to, trigger guards, firing pins, barrels, stocks, butt plates, trigger assemblies, pistol grips, holsters and scopes. Listings for such items must clearly state the type of firearm for which the part or accessory is designed. If this information is not provided, the listing may be ended. ****

BB Guns, Replicas, Blank Guns and Imitation Guns

Prohibited: BB guns, air guns, black powder guns or muzzle-loader guns, Blank guns, Starter pistols, Listings that use the term “BB gun” in the item title or description of any listing for an airsoft or replica gun.

Permitted: Paintball guns, "airsoft" guns*, pellet guns, replica, "look-alike," and imitation firearms under certain circumstances. These items:

Must have clear markings permanently affixed to them (commonly
blaze orange markings on the barrel or a blaze orange plug
inserted into the barrel)

Must not be readily convertible to shoot a lethal projectile

Must be located in the U.S. and the seller must be located in the U.S.

These rules apply to all items designed to look like firearms, including replicas/imitation guns of any age, as well as toy and cap guns.

Note: Most states require that purchasers of airsoft guns be 18 years of age or older.

Stun Guns

Prohibited: The possession and sale of stun guns is prohibited in Hawaii, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, and the District of Columbia and may also be illegal in other locations within the United States. In addition to being prohibited under certain state laws, some municipalities also limit stun gun sales. Stun guns that are designed to look like everyday items, such as cell phones or flashlights, or which are designed to be hidden or concealed, are not permitted on eBay.

Permitted; Sales of stun guns on eBay are only permitted to the extent permissible by law and may only be bought, sold, and shipped within the US. Sellers are responsible for reviewing the laws in their location and the location of the buyer and ensuring that sales are legal in both locations before listing and completing such transactions on eBay.

Hand Weapons:

Prohibited: Nunchaku, Brass, plastic or metal knuckles, Leaded cane/staff/crutch/stick, Zip guns, Shurikens, Throwing stars, Knuckle knives, Billy clubs/batons, Sandclubs or sandbags, Slungshots (also known as saps or blackjacks).

Permitted: Faux or practice items, such as foam nunchaku or plastic throwing stars, and MALL NINJAS (OK, I put that in there).

Knives:
Prohibited: Switchblade Knives: The interstate sale of switchblade knives is prohibited by federal law; therefore switchblade knives may not be listed on eBay. Federal law defines switchblade knives as “any knife having a blade which opens automatically (1) by and pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle of the knife, or (2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both.” Butterfly knives are also prohibited.

Disguised Knives: Knives disguised to look like a harmless item are not permitted on eBay. These items include but are not limited to belt buckle knives, lipstick case knives, air gauge knives, and writing pen knives.

Push Knives: Push knives are not permitted on eBay. These items are often referred to as push daggers, punch daggers, punch knives, push dirks or T-handled knives.

Permitted: All other knives are generally permitted.

Pepper Spray and Mace

Pepper spray and mace may be listed on eBay to the extent permitted by applicable law. Sellers and buyers alike should be aware that several states and municipalities regulate the sale and possession of these items, and should make sure that they are in compliance with these laws when buying or selling pepper spray or mace on eBay.
Militaria, Ordnance and Grenades

Prohibited:

Equipment and supplies issued to and formerly used by United States Armed Forces that have not been disposed of in accordance with Department of Defense demilitarization policies. Sales of such items may constitute violations of federal law.

Ordnance (military weaponry, ammunition, and related parts), even if the item is "unserviceable" or has been "demilitarized" or "demilled," as eBay cannot confirm that the item has effectively and permanently been altered for lawful and safe transport and sale.

Grenades, including metal military practice grenades, rifle grenades, dummy grenades, grenade launcher attachments, and mines.

Permitted:

Replica ordnance, specifically items that were never actual military ordnance

Relics, curios, memorabilia, or display items permanently altered to prevent ready modification for use as a grenade.

383green
07-30-2007, 2:56 PM
They are really just codifying what they have been doing for quite some time. I’ve had auctions for bayonets and other ancillary parts taken down as violations of their rules. At least with these new regs, when they remove auctions they will have an overly broad policy to point to.

Did they punish you at all for your evil bayonet sales, or can we continue to list whatever we want and hope that some items sneak under the radar?

Hmm, maybe Gunbroker should add categories for things like Hello Kitty socks, so we can just migrate all of our business over there?

As much as eBay's policy on "Oh Noes! Gun Parts!" pisses me off, it's the most fertile ground for finding a lot of other things that interest me, such as military radio stuff. In fact, the emergence of eBay has pretty much killed what used to be an amazing swap meet at the annual Military Collector's Group Meeting in San Luis Obispo, CA... the rest of the meet is still great, but the swap portion has really dried up.

How many of y'all remember the parts kit feeding frenzy right before their (previously announced) ban on parts kits and the like went into effect? It was a sad time, but fun, too!

I wonder if things like repack kits, red dot sights, NV gear and the like will still sneak by the Bullet Tip Police?

Rhys898
07-30-2007, 3:04 PM
"Do no evil"? - That was VERY evil. :mad:



That's google's mantra, not egays.

Jer

mwarren2
07-30-2007, 3:04 PM
Thia may or may not be a good email address for the eBay VP Halprin

matt.halprin@ebay.com

Give it a try and tell him your thoughts on the subject!

mwarren2
07-30-2007, 3:09 PM
That's google's mantra, not egays.

Jer

yea. eBay's is: Whatever it is... you can get it on eBay!

Ironic huh?

Michael303
07-30-2007, 3:27 PM
Did they punish you at all for your evil bayonet sales, or can we continue to list whatever we want and hope that some items sneak under the radar? <snip>

Their roving auction censors nailed me when I was trying to sell two bayonets about 18 months ago. One bayonet was for a CETME, and the other was for an Enfield No1MkIII. I wasn’t punished or suspended, they just yanked the auctions and told me I violated their terms of service. When I contested their logic for their removal of my auction, they gave me some song and dance about being part of an assault rifle.

For all that, I still occasionally use Ebay for odd things like 78’s, but my 2nd Amendment auction needs are covered by Gunbroker.

Mnort10x
07-30-2007, 4:40 PM
Just threw EBAY out with the trash! :D

Held my PAYPAL account underwater until the bubbles stopped.:eek:

I will just have to look elsewhere.

Boy that felt GOOD! ;)

CALI-gula
07-30-2007, 4:42 PM
That's google's mantra, not egays.

Jer


No: not just Google. That is just where YOU are familiar with it. I used that intentionally to bring awareness to the larger construct and how that world does share a bed. It only APPEARS as Google's mantra, but it actually was a shared saying that derived out of a small but extremely powerful network of friends that meant to emulate the "Do No Harm" aspect for doctors, most notably, people like Jeff Skoll, and many other tech-related entrepreneurs. Jeff Skoll, one of the most notable founding members of Ebay, was and likely is, influential in its anti-2nd Amendment policies, whereby he has now taken his views to Hollywood to back and produce films that have a liberal and often overt Anti-2nd Amendment stance, i.e. "American Gun" with Donald Sutherland.

If you are not the programmer, you are the programmed. If you are not the painter, you are the paint.

.

rkt88edmo
07-30-2007, 4:52 PM
No more bullet tips, huh? Can I still buy and sell the bullet bases there? :popcorn:

Hey, where are all those people who make hollow points going to sell their tips now? :chris:


:p
It's all free market, just happily take your business elsewhere.

Google and ebay are happy as long as they dominate their market$ and will continue to act as "benevolent despots". Elitists.

Guns R Tools
07-30-2007, 4:58 PM
Whenever you list something like toaster on ebay. Say "I am selling this because I need a money to buy a gun, legally of course."

What are they gonna do about it? :D

Don forget to thank ebay for making legal gun purchase possible.

AKman
07-30-2007, 5:02 PM
Its funny that eBay will still sell expensive items like scopes (including night vision), but ban other components. I suspect in the wrong hands a high-end scope (Schmidt Bender, Zeiss, etc.) or night vision scope has more potential to do harm than a bayonet. Does anyone remember the University of Texas?

On the other hand, there was someone that was recently selling "9 round" magazines that were clearly 20-round capacity. The boobs at eBay don't seem to competent when it comes to differentiating what is legal or not, so I understand their problem.

Then again, my wife collects porcelain figurines, many of which are semi-naked fairies and mermaids. eBay was stopping auctions when someone complained that the items were pornographic material. I guess little Johnny was jacking off in front of the computer...

I'll add them to the list with The Sportsman's Guide. They won't ship anything to my address, including things like steak knives (maybe because of O.J.?). Their lawyers seem to have invented laws at the state and county level that simply don't exist or they are too stupid to interpret correctly.

CALI-gula
07-30-2007, 5:05 PM
Whenever you list something like toaster on ebay. Say "I am selling this because I need a money to buy a gun, legally of course."

What are they gonna do about it? :D

Don forget to thank ebay for making legal gun purchase possible.

I tried that once, or something like it. Out of spite, they will pull your auction for "including information that does not pertain to your item", a rule they established a few years ago to curtail critical opinions about Ebay policies (for many topics, not just firearms) and other incite or political rants in peoples' auction description bodies.

.

ybz
07-30-2007, 5:06 PM
i have to say that ebay used to be a great place to shop for things and had some very interesting finds some years ago (3-4 years); lately it's been mainly overpriced new stuff, often more expensive than Amazon or other sites; the same holds true for magazines and such; most times i'd like to pick up a part on e-bay i find it cheaper from an online site, with less hustle, no waiting, and fair shipping. the only thing i felt e-bay has been good for is their search engine to find things like a firing pin, or springs, etc... oh well, it's money, they are trying to get some publicity from this announcement, maybe insure that Michael Moore doesn't put them in his next documentary, i could argue that they just open up old wounds and took partial blame for this murderous action taken by a psychopath... in all likelihood, anyone wanting to commit a crime is least likely to shop a e-bay with all the paper trail and long waiting period for auction and shipping, in fact buying gun stuff on ebay is like a mandatory waiting period in a way... like i said, ebay items are generally a rip-off, so they are actually helping us and gun store and gun show vendors who we should be supporting anyways!!! keep up the good work ebay… but they should be made aware that the obvious part that is required for the firing of a gun is the hand that holds it, and last i checked ebay already bands the selling of body parts!!!

CALI-gula
07-30-2007, 5:08 PM
Its funny that eBay will still sell expensive items like scopes (including night vision), but ban other components. I suspect in the wrong hands a high-end scope (Schmidt Bender, Zeiss, etc.) or night vision scope has more potential to do harm than a bayonet. Does anyone remember the University of Texas?

Nope. Those are banned too, as "sniper" scopes. If you saw one listed that was not ended by them or canceled, it was simply because they missed it, or the description did not contain words that raised their flags with them.

.

383green
07-30-2007, 5:15 PM
Hey, where are all those people who make hollow points going to sell their tips now? :chris:

On the flip side, can we continue to sell hollow-point bullets there, since they don't have tips? :whistling:

Pthfndr
07-30-2007, 5:16 PM
Why is it BS? It's a company policy decision. Want to change it? Buy stock in the company (it's publicaly owned) and go to the stock holders meeting and get the policy changed.

Don't like it? Take your money elsewhere.

Or better yet, start your own online company of the same type, allow anything to be sold, and make your millions.

AKman
07-30-2007, 5:20 PM
Nope. Those are banned too, as "sniper" scopes. If you saw one listed that was not ended by them or canceled, it was simply because they missed it, or the description did not contain words that raised their flags with them.

.

Current listings:

- Schmidt & Bender Police Marksman II L/P P4 MOA Model $2,950.00.

- ATN MK8900 Crusader Night Vision Rifle Scope Gen 4, $4,499.00.

There are hundreds of similar listings. There must be a big difference between a sniper and a Police Marksman. As I recall, night vision rifle scopes are a no no in California.

383green
07-30-2007, 5:21 PM
Its funny that eBay will still sell expensive items like scopes (including night vision), but ban other components.


Since you've brought that up, I've found that when I search for high-end NV gear such as AN/PVS-14 units, I very frequently find listings that are obvious fraud attempts being perpetrated through stolen accounts. The usual signs are the use of listing pictures lifted from other listings, the item location shown as being different from the account's country, unreasonably low opening prices that are obviously too good to be true, a sudden batch of NVG listings from an account with no other recent listings and very different items sold in previous auctions, and the listing telling folks to contact the seller by email at an address provided in the listing and to NOT attempt contact through the eBay site. I would expect that other high-dollar items attract similar kinds of fraud, but I've only personally encountered this in the NVG area.

I always report these fraud attempts when I see them.

chuck762
07-30-2007, 5:27 PM
I cancelled both my ebay and paypal account aout a year ago after getting my ad pulled for a magpul PRS stock, even though there were 6 other people selling the same item. :rolleyes: I exchanged a few emails back and forth with one of their evil freedom, hating minions.
Good thing I did so before selling my motorcycle on there in which they would have gotten a nice chunk of change from the sale.
I added them to the list of people I won't spend money with such as Sportsmans guide, Cheaper than dirt and others who are helping the gun banners by not selling legal items to me just because of where I happen to live.

383green
07-30-2007, 5:28 PM
As I recall, night vision rifle scopes are a no no in California.


Unless they've changed the law fairly recently, I believe that the California law against NV rifle scopes specifically defines rifle scopes as having infrared emitters (probably written in reference to active night vision scopes with IR spotlights, prior to the availability of starlight scopes). Thus, I think that a modern rifle-mounted starlight scope is still ok as long as it doesn't include a IR emitter such as an IR LED. I could be mistaken, but I think this is the way it is.

Got Stuff?
07-30-2007, 7:09 PM
I finally got fed up with PayPal and eBay as well!

I started selling on Ebay in 1999 and did almost 100% of my business on there. Power seller status and $20,000 a year paid to eBay in sellers fees. But now, so many retarded rules and the people that work to enforce them as well have forced me to move on.

About a month ago PayPal defrauded me (with the help of one of their customers) for the last time. This has happened to me more than a few times before and I finally decided to call it quits with PayPal and eBay.

Evidently, people have become aware as to how easy it is to have PayPal help them defraud businesses. And PayPal allows it to happen every time with hardly any questions asked. All in the name of "Buyer Protection".

Here is the process.

Step 1) Purchase an item on eBay
Step 2) Pay for the item with PayPal
Step 3) 24 hours after making payment with PayPal, file a claim stating that you never received the item that you paid for
Step 4) One of the robots at PayPal sends an email and reviews the claim made by the customer.
Step 5) The default is for PayPal to give the customer a complete refund by taking the required monies out of the sellers account.

The end result is that the customer gets a complete refund shortly after the purchased item was delivered to them. Naturally, the seller loses.


And if you think that a tracking # will protect you from the above scenario, think again. It turns out that a tracking # only proves "delivery" to an address and not actual "recipt" by the customer.

Yes, I complained, wrote letters and explained the fraud. Did PayPal care? Not in the least.

Solidmch
07-30-2007, 8:14 PM
Matt Halprin = etool

CALI-gula
07-30-2007, 10:52 PM
Current listings:

- Schmidt & Bender Police Marksman II L/P P4 MOA Model $2,950.00.

- ATN MK8900 Crusader Night Vision Rifle Scope Gen 4, $4,499.00.

There are hundreds of similar listings. There must be a big difference between a sniper and a Police Marksman. As I recall, night vision rifle scopes are a no no in California.

I'm not refuting there wouldn't be listings found - people can list whatever they want, until they are caught. I've seen many a "prohibited" item in auctions last several days without being canceled, and I have bought many items on Ebay in the past, like AR15 parts, that wre against Ebay's policies but the auction wasn't canceled, even when it said AR15 in the title.

I'm saying that the Ebay staff are too stupid to know how to enforce their own rules. If they can't understand that a magazine for a gun chambered in ".38 Super" where "Super" does not mean to secretly imply that it is really a "large-capacity" magazine, how would you expect them to know the details on these scopes.

Being that Ebay is based in CA, it is the very reason they follow quite a few of California's gun laws and overly apply them to all 50 states. And, you are right, night vision scopes are illegal in CA - so long as they also have infrared emitters. But Ebay goes further to ban "sniper"scopes, whatever that means; I guess even a Leupold hunting scope could be considered a sniper scope if you use it for such. Sniper scope? Does that mean it has a government reticle? It's a certain X power? Ebay couls ay anything is a sniper scope if they wish as there is no set definition for that term, and it doesn't necessarily mean that it is night vision/infrared as a sniper might be working on a sunny afternoon.

Just because it is posted on Ebay does not mean Ebay allowed it - the seller simply posted the time against Ebay's rules and got away with it. You can do 90MPH on the 101, but if a cop doesn't see or catch you at it, was it still illegal? Of course.

In any case, screw Ebay - this is the last step whereby I can no longer do anything with them. Gunbroker is so well formulated now, they should just change their name to "Broker.com" and handle anything Ebay handles, yet continue to allow firearms. They would bury Ebay.

.

CalNRA
07-30-2007, 11:35 PM
The owners of gunbroker.com and auctionarms.com are doing the happy dance.

they and Brownells. :eek:

Blacktail 8541
07-31-2007, 6:24 AM
I haven't been happpy about ebay policy for a while and will now pull my account with paypal & ebay with these new bans going into effect.

Corbin Dallas
07-31-2007, 6:43 AM
There are currently 9204 auctions for gun parts, 10178 auctions for gun accessories, 5531 auctions for knives and 5029 auctions for reloading equipment.

Too bad that eBay will be losing out on nearly 30,000 auctions on a continual basis.

I wonder what the average fee is per auction, listed and sold?

Prc329
07-31-2007, 8:16 AM
First they need to stop the nigerians from stealing peoples accounts and trying to scam people.

Fate
07-31-2007, 8:49 AM
First they need to stop the nigerians from stealing peoples accounts and trying to scam people.

That'd be easier than getting a politician to actually follow the Constitution. :threadjacked: :D

dfletcher
07-31-2007, 9:38 AM
You know, I drove cross country and never once saw a sign that said "Drive as Fast as You Want" - the highest speed limit was 75 MPH. Yet EBay sells cars that clearly can be used in an illegal manner. It doesn't seem to bother them that thousands of poeople die each year by folks driving way too fast.

To be intellectually honest, EBay should ban the sale of cars - and any items that can be used to make a car run - that can go over 75 MPH.

Of course, I have a Yugo and AMC Gremlin listed, so I won't be affected. :dupe:

DJDace
07-31-2007, 10:10 AM
After learning that some items purchased on eBay may have been used in the tragedy at Virginia Tech in April 2007, we felt that revisiting our policies was not only necessary, but the right thing to do.

You have got to be kidding me. I am impressed, this is without a doubt the stupidest thing I have read this year. My hats off to E-bay, this is a new high watermark for Reactionary Leftist HorsePucky.

I hope next they ban the sale of booze and cars from E-bay since people get drunk and smash their cars into other cars/buildings/people/pets. I mean, you can't morally justify the sale of these deadly killers after banning triggers and firing pins! I mean, triggers are freakin dangerous man! Some nut could fish-hook you with one!

Can all of us sane, responsible people who like our guns, hunting and boobs just finally go out and take over some island somewhere and live in peace away from all of these cry baby over-reacting politically correct corporate grabasses? PLEASE?!

ibanezfoo
07-31-2007, 11:28 AM
If ebay wants to take this road, I blame them for allowing a mentally disturbed person to buy stuff from them. VT is all ebay's fault.

I agree. Sounds like an admission of guilt if you ask me

-Bryan

xrMike
07-31-2007, 11:34 AM
Screw them, if they don't want people to buy and sell perfectly legal items, I'll take my business elsewhere.Yep, that's about all you can do as an individual.

I resolved long ago to never, ever do a single transaction on ebay. Screw them.

porkchop
07-31-2007, 3:22 PM
what's a good online auction site for general items (ie non gun specific items)? surely there are other ebay-like sites... does anyone here use any in particular?

Draven
07-31-2007, 3:39 PM
All other Ebay-like sites died.

mike100
07-31-2007, 5:50 PM
I still need small parts, holsters, and shotgun barrels etc. We'll see who taps into this opportunity to list these types of auctions. I don't care that ebay won't do it just so long as somebody else will.

Shane916
07-31-2007, 5:56 PM
I still need small parts, holsters, and shotgun barrels etc. We'll see who taps into this opportunity to list these types of auctions. I don't care that ebay won't do it just so long as somebody else will.

http://www.gunbroker.com/

LAK Supply
07-31-2007, 6:21 PM
I still need small parts, holsters, and shotgun barrels etc. We'll see who taps into this opportunity to list these types of auctions. I don't care that ebay won't do it just so long as somebody else will.

http://www.laksupply.com :D

Got Stuff?
07-31-2007, 7:41 PM
Who needs eBay?!

Looks like we have most of what we need right here on this forum!

Charliegone
07-31-2007, 9:13 PM
welp...looks like it's gunbroker for me...screw ebay...f****** hippies.:mad:

triggerhappy
07-31-2007, 9:18 PM
If ebay wants to take this road, I blame them for allowing a mentally disturbed person to buy stuff from them. VT is all ebay's fault.

LOL! Typical liberal/commie hyperbole! I have spent so much money on Ebay, too. I think I need to let em know I'm spending my $ elsewhere-not that they care, but if I ever see that little weasel (Matt Whatshisuglyface), his shins are gonna hurt for a month...

ts
08-01-2007, 1:04 PM
this won't even put a dent in ebay's pocket. it will however give them good PR.

383green
08-01-2007, 1:40 PM
this won't even put a dent in ebay's pocket. it will however give them good PR.

Agreed.

Every time some new eBay/PayPal policy change like this comes up, I'm tempted to vote with my feet. However, based on the niche areas that I typically operate in (military vehicles, military radios and firearms stuff), they wouldn't notice or care about my absence, and I'd mostly be shooting myself in the foot because eBay remains the best place for me to look for military radio stuff (including rare stuff... I've gotten a few very rare pieces of gear there that I would not have expected to run across otherwise, and in fact I never expected to see with my own eyes in my lifetime). Heck, the presence of eBay has singularly caused some of the older sources for this kind of gear to dry up, so it stands out as the only practical way for me to find some kinds of the stuff I collect outside the smallish group of other collectors I know personally.

This move will lead me to pay more attention to Gunbroker for gun-related stuff, but at least for now I'll still find it necessary to hang out on eBay for other things. :(

only zeiss
08-02-2007, 12:44 AM
I have been a member of eBay since 1997 and have sold "stuff" to every continent excluding Antartica.Thank you for the above link as I let them know my feelings. Matt's email address worked.

x-ring
08-04-2007, 9:48 PM
Ebay item 170136134592

Quick! Look before they ban humor as well...

Draven
08-04-2007, 10:20 PM
Rofl!

tiki
08-05-2007, 5:10 AM
Hmm, I can't buy brass but I can buy thse...

items

330152581878

110154836919

180144319883

300136948782

330151485671

190135944418

Some of the things used in the VT shooting were bought on Ebay? What was, his sneakers? His t-shirt? Are we supposed to believe that this guy reloaded the ammo that he used? We know he didn't buy the guns there. What a bunhc of idiots.

toolman9000
08-06-2007, 3:05 PM
Must look at this auction before it gets pulled...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170136134592

The most evil one yet!!!!!!!!

Corky43
08-07-2007, 6:53 AM
+1 for Gunbroker.com and auctionarms.com

any others?


I just emailed the cancellation of my ebay account this morning.

If we don't "ALL" show are support (or lack of support), this type of harrasment will continue.

Corbin Dallas
08-09-2007, 8:01 AM
Continue your support and post here:

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?messageID=2007318833�

383green
08-09-2007, 8:22 AM
Continue your support and post here:

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?messageID=2007318833�


Thanks for pointing to that discussion forum. I've never read or posted there before. This is what I just posted there:

This change in eBay's policy is an absurd knee-jerk reaction to the actions of one insane person in a country of a quarter billion people. I know many people who are canceling their eBay accounts in reaction to this, because they are fed up with eBay's clear bias against the exercise of a Constitutionally protected natural right. eBay will certainly lose a lot of revenue as a result of this arbitrary and unnecessary decision.

This will clearly help sites like gunbroker.com. I wonder if this will spur them to widen the scope of their auction categories, begin competing more directly with eBay, and take away still more of eBay's market share beyond the chunk that eBay has just willingly handed them?

gose
08-09-2007, 12:14 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180146694279&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=008

:)

sako
08-09-2007, 2:27 PM
This sentence in the anouncement caught my eye

"This new update continues to encourage safety among our community members and brings our policies in the U.S. and Canada in closer alignment with our existing policies in other markets around the globe."

I am seriously considering closing my account with E-Bay

gose
08-09-2007, 3:00 PM
Hmm, wonder if this is a push from Iggy/BoF?

After all, if bullet tips get harder to buy, all those Bullet Buttons will be rendered useless! :D

btw, my account is now closed... Make sure you let them know why you're closing your account as well..

---
I have decided to close my account and whatever online business I'll do in the future will not be on/through eBay.
The main reason being the new gun parts policy as posted by Matt Halprin in http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200707.shtml#2007-07-30094109
I'm saddened that perfectly legal items are being banned from eBay because a tragic individual person used them in an illegal way.
I assume that all items that potentially may be used in an illegal fashion are to be banned shortly?
There is enough Big Brother mentality in this country as it is and I refuse to support a company pushing this mentality even further.
I'm sure the majority of your users wont care the slightest, but I also hope that I can convince all my friends to follow my example.
btw, what the heck is this bullet tip you're banning?
---

marklbucla
08-12-2007, 8:54 PM
I just listed a couple of things and it said that the policy will go into effect beginning August 13.

I wonder if my auctions are going to be closed now, or if you just can't start a new one beginning tomorrow.

M. Sage
08-12-2007, 10:46 PM
Cancelled my Ebay account.

Craigslist is better anyway.

Vectrexer
04-25-2008, 6:11 AM
This is okay for me. As time goes on I actually forget to search eBay for items. That also mean I forget to use eBay to post items.

So all I am left for is using eBay to post my video game related stuff. That also declining in favor of other forums.

On the flip side I get my amusement from eBay in the form of Jesus and Mary toast, and the fools who would bid on it.

redcliff
04-25-2008, 7:40 AM
Unless they've changed the law fairly recently, I believe that the California law against NV rifle scopes specifically defines rifle scopes as having infrared emitters (probably written in reference to active night vision scopes with IR spotlights, prior to the availability of starlight scopes). Thus, I think that a modern rifle-mounted starlight scope is still ok as long as it doesn't include a IR emitter such as an IR LED. I could be mistaken, but I think this is the way it is.

You're correct.

468. Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment. As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime. This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.

Solidsnake87
04-25-2008, 8:08 AM
Man whats up with all the dead thread revives? :p

townbound
04-25-2008, 8:51 AM
I bought a complete upper off ebay a few years back, it's too bad they have taken tis stance.

ohsmily
04-25-2008, 8:51 AM
This is okay for me. As time goes on I actually forget to search eBay for items. That also mean I forget to use eBay to post items.

So all I am left for is using eBay to post my video game related stuff. That also declining in favor of other forums.

On the flip side I get my amusement from eBay in the form of Jesus and Mary toast, and the fools who would bid on it.

We were on the edge of our seats for 8 months before you posted this. Thank you.

artherd
04-25-2008, 11:14 AM
Good, good...
Let 'em sink their own ship with their own sense of entitlement and forced-morality.


I will soon have a solution. Watch this space.

-Ben.

Bad Voodoo
04-25-2008, 11:17 AM
...f****** hippies. :mad:

:D

Now that's just funny, I don't care who you are.

Santa Cruz Armory
04-25-2008, 12:20 PM
The letter I sent to them:

Mr. Halprin

I want to take a moment to voice my utter displeasure with Ebay. I am a very longtime Ebayer, and I want to say that I am disgusted with the stance that Ebay has taken against firearms related items.

As an avid gun enthusiast, I hate to see that large corporations like Ebay are bowing down to the pressure of the mainstream media and anti gun groups... It would be refreshing to see Ebay take a stand and allow the sale of firearm related items.

Allow me to make a couple comparisons:

Alcohol related items are sold all day long on Ebay and alcohol is responsible for far more deaths in the U.S. per year than Firearms ever could. Maybe Ebay should stop allowing the sale of automotive items and vehicles, because they contribute to tens of thousands of deaths per year. It's easy to ban the sales of a small portion of items just to look as if Ebay is "doing their part" to protect people. All it does is take another chip out of the freedoms we enjoy as Americans.

I have been an Ebay member for years, but I see my membership coming to an end very soon.

Please rethink your policies, and don't bow down to the pressure of the media. It's obviously not fair and with the reasons cited above, it's just ridiculous.

~Robert *******

CWM4A1
04-28-2008, 11:02 PM
The day I saw this policy change, I cancel my eBay membership immediately. I might have bought a few items that's not firearm related, but all the item I've ever sold on eBay is firearm related. Screw them.

cackinthebox
04-29-2008, 3:38 AM
thats fine, i hate having to check both ebay AND gunbroker for parts. makes my life easier

Addax
04-29-2008, 9:16 AM
If Ebay wants to pull out, that is fine with me.

This means that independent business websites (like my new one I am rolling out) will take over that market that ebay is tossing away.