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View Full Version : HK P2000 LEM $200 over a Glock because...


Fherot
11-23-2012, 2:25 AM
Can anyone shed the light on where the extra $200 of a P2000 LEM trigger model (or even a USPc) goes? As I understand it LEM is HK's hammer version of Glock's striker cocking/firing system.

Both pistols have tenifer finish, both are polymer guns. Glock has tons of spare parts everywhere, easy to replace any part yourself and despite what M&P fans say Glock has excellent quality too. Both are very rugged so I'm just not seeing where the extra $200 goes and I really want to justify it.

I'm asking because I initially was looking at a steel/alloy pistol (like Sig) but came about a couple HK uspc/p2000 magazines from a friend.

far from tactical
11-23-2012, 5:54 AM
Your just paying for the hk name that's my 0.02 cents I think I would go for a sig over a hk that's me but may differ from outher ppl thoughts

Oceanbob
11-23-2012, 6:08 AM
The HK name has value. Also, the P2000 is one of the weapons Homeland Security carries. The is a Government contract issue. ($).

I like Glocks and Hks. Both are quality weapons.

jumbopanda
11-23-2012, 6:08 AM
Because HK guns are expensive, that's why.

gunnlover
11-23-2012, 6:23 AM
Just shoot them side by side and it'll be clear.

MyGlock17
11-23-2012, 9:37 AM
Are you sure the H&K has a tenifer finish? I believe the H&K has a different finish...Both are very good guns but to me even though im a huge Glock Fan i think the H&K is probably the best polymer gun you can buy...That being said the H&K is not for everyone...The down side of the H&K the parts are more expensive and harder to find at a local store..But with a Glock it's so much easier to find parts..Part of the reason why i bought a Glock in the 1st place is because of the upgrades you can do with it...But with all the upgrades i did with my Glock i could of easily bought a H&K USP for the same price...So yea the Glock is cheaper but with the upgrades and all you'll spend about the same amount as you would with a H&K or even a Sig...

CaliTheKid
11-23-2012, 10:13 AM
I am not in the firearms business, but it seems to me certain business fundamentals are universal.

Innovation and RD is very expensive no matter what business you are in. HK has consistently put itself amongst the worlds best when it comes to pushing the boundaries of firearms the same way Mercedes Benz has with automobiles. Is there some badge mark up as well? Yes but it's earned through being a cutting edge company.

Glock has tweaked one basic design and has a very limited product line. This is key in keeping prices lower but a risk for loosing competitive advantage in the market place.

Q619
11-23-2012, 12:20 PM
Imo HK's are much nicer guns and even feel much more solid. Accuracy wise, they seem to be better as well. That being said, my two favorite guns are Glock and HK. I shoot them both and have found that they're equally reliable for the most part and Glocks are even easier to shoot. Never broke a part on an HK, broke 2 on Glocks though: a slide lock spring and a slide stop bar. I carry a HK on my hip every day and know it'll get me through bad juju when it comes.

Fherot
11-23-2012, 12:35 PM
Thanks for input... Hmm.

I've been through a lot of various handguns and over the last two years settled on a G26 as my only (and favorite) handgun I own.

I'm not a collector since I'm poor but I really want a second handgun and on one hand getting a G34 would allow me to share G17 mags between the two as well as consistent controls and trigger/parts. I -love- Glock stock trigger.

But that's also kind of boring having only two handguns for a long time and both being a Glock. It would feel redundant picking G26 or G34 to take to BLM.

hyeg35
11-23-2012, 1:24 PM
why not both? i currently own multiple glocks and HK's and i love them all equally.

Ron-Solo
11-23-2012, 1:33 PM
I own an HK P2000, M&P 9, 9 c, 45, and Glock 19. Comparing a Glock to an HK is like comparing a BMW to a Chevy. The M&P and Glocks are fairly equal, with personal preference being the big difference. The HK is better crafted in my opinion than either the S&W or Glock..

DannyInSoCal
11-23-2012, 1:42 PM
Simple:

Production numbers and demand...

ROCKETW19
11-23-2012, 2:10 PM
I own both and HK is way above glock in every deparment fit finnish trigger and especially sights.
saying that i am gettin another glock just for the fact glockworks can pimp them out and I like that alot.

tbc
11-23-2012, 4:36 PM
It's a steal if you can get a P2000 for $200 more than the cost of a Glock. They are typically $300 to $350 more. Especially the LEM model. I would get it and consider it as an investment.


Sent from iPhone through Tapatalk

missiontrails
11-23-2012, 4:39 PM
I own an HK P2000, M&P 9, 9 c, 45, and Glock 19. Comparing a Glock to an HK is like comparing a BMW to a Chevy. The M&P and Glocks are fairly equal, with personal preference being the big difference. The HK is better crafted in my opinion than either the S&W or Glock..

I owned a USP40 when they first came out in 1994, $499, kept it 10 years. What is better crafted? Have you looked at each and every part in a Glock (I know you have, just kidding), what needs to be better crafted? The Glock has fewer parts, and the simplicity of complete tear down is genius. For a gun manufacturer to create a handgun as light, utilizing as few parts, and making the ones that count as beefy and well finished (slide, barrel) as they did.... AND survive torture test after torture test.... is insane. The HK definitely gives off the "perception" of higher quality when in hand... but how does that translate into real world function and durability? There is a reason that Glock comprises 65% of pistol sales worldwide.

Fherot
11-23-2012, 6:00 PM
I owned a USP40 when they first came out in 1994, $499, kept it 10 years. What is better crafted? Have you looked at each and every part in a Glock (I know you have, just kidding), what needs to be better crafted? The Glock has fewer parts, and the simplicity of complete tear down is genius. For a gun manufacturer to create a handgun as light, utilizing as few parts, and making the ones that count as beefy and well finished (slide, barrel) as they did.... AND survive torture test after torture test.... is insane. The HK definitely gives off the "perception" of higher quality when in hand... but how does that translate into real world function and durability? There is a reason that Glock comprises 65% of pistol sales worldwide.

This is what makes the $200-350 difficult to justify. When I look at a Glock I really see a perfectly crafted pistol. It just Has less 'stuff' going on inside. Everything is precisely crafted and the fit and finish on barrel and slide is superb. CNC'ed from a billet of steel with 0 tooling marks or signs of sloppy construction on all Glock's I've seen. The ultra simple detailed strip is a huge plus for me to basicly let me be my own armorer.

I'm not doubting HK though I just need to go hold one and see if I can notice the extra change. Pity I don't know anyone who has one anymore. I really want an HK to outsell me over a G34 or something.

missiontrails
11-23-2012, 6:04 PM
If you were looking P2000, I would look at G17, not G34... 4.5" barrel is perfect.

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd451/dehlers1/F15CB48A-028F-4914-9FDD-A924D78F7321-38133-00000A4D7CF4C68C.jpg

SDgarrick
11-23-2012, 6:16 PM
I really like my gen2 glock 17... rent them both, shoot them side by side is my advice.

all my glock really needs is some finer sights imo, the stock ones are great as a defensive sight, but could be better for my general purposes.

Fherot
11-23-2012, 9:18 PM
I know Glocks quite well, and I was leaning G34 because it's at the extreme other end of 9mm Glocks than the G26.

I'll have to fondle the HK's and ask to atleast dry fire a DA/SA USP and a LEM P2000.

hyeg35
11-24-2012, 12:26 AM
Nope. This is the other "extreme" end of the 9mm Glocks. :D

My Glock 17L

http://i.imgur.com/xaSRql.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/xaSRq)

missiontrails
11-24-2012, 12:55 AM
Nope. This is the other "extreme" end of the 9mm Glocks. :D

My Glock 17L

http://i.imgur.com/xaSRql.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/xaSRq)

Lol, you're right... that's like a porn star:O

SilverTauron
11-24-2012, 4:26 AM
I know Glocks quite well, and I was leaning G34 because it's at the extreme other end of 9mm Glocks than the G26.

I'll have to fondle the HK's and ask to atleast dry fire a DA/SA USP and a LEM P2000.

I got a chance to handle an HK USP9 at a gun shop last year. I know this extensive experience totally wows you , but read on.

IMO HK's are great guns. No doubt. BUT after handling them,all I can think of is what's the point of all that capability?

A Glock is tough enough to handle anything life can throw at it and then some. Most importantly , its affordable. $1000 for a handgun may not be a lot of money to some people, but for a poor guy like me $1000 isn't disposable income.

I bought a 1911 for $800 and had real issues carrying it-remember if we peons use a gun in self defense its going into a police armory room for a LOOOOOONNG time, if we ever get the gun back at all. Shoot a goblin dead in a communist zone like Chicago and you can kiss that gat goodbye, 4th Amendment notwithstanding. Id rather loose a Glock to the government sponsored furnace than a $1000 HK.

For collectors sake I have no issue with owning an HK, and I completely get why people love 'em. But if the goal is practical daily use, stick with something more expendable-and the Glock fits the bill nicely as do many of its competitors.

problemchild
11-24-2012, 6:37 AM
I have owned both and also a USP, HK is couple notches ABOVE glock.

Glock trigger guard is too small and rubs the bottom of my finger making my finger stick on the trigger.

Glock trigger is total crap. I hate the spongy stretchy feel of the striker and trigger.

Glock slide release just plain sucks.

Glock mag release sucks and requires repositioning of the gun in your hand to reach it or two hands.

Glocks are NOT as accurate as a stock HK out of the box.

Glocks run unsupported chambers.

Glocks have a lessor ergonomic feel than HK.

Glocks break

Glocks require about 100+ in parts to make them halfway OK.

HighLander51
11-24-2012, 6:54 AM
I have owned both and also a USP, HK is couple notches ABOVE glock.

Glock trigger guard is too small and rubs the bottom of my finger making my finger stick on the trigger.

Glock trigger is total crap. I hate the spongy stretchy feel of the striker and trigger.

Glock slide release just plain sucks.

Glock mag release sucks and requires repositioning of the gun in your hand to reach it or two hands.

Glocks are NOT as accurate as a stock HK out of the box.

Glocks run unsupported chambers.

Glocks have a lessor ergonomic feel than HK.

Glocks break

Glocks require about 100+ in parts to make them halfway OK.

So why do more than half of all competitive shooters in USPSA, IDPA, Steel Challenge and 3 gun run Glocks??? GSSF doesn't count because it has to be a Glock. The other half are 1911 wide bodies and single stacks. You can count the HK's you see at any given match on one hand with 4 fingers missing.

Fherot
11-24-2012, 7:34 AM
So why do more than half of all competitive shooters in USPSA, IDPA, Steel Challenge and 3 gun run Glocks??? GSSF doesn't count because it has to be a Glock. The other half are 1911 wide bodies and single stacks. You can count the HK's you see at any given match on one hand with 4 fingers missing.

The answer will be 'because they're cheaper' (wouldn't IDPA use Hi-Points then?)

I have to humbly say I disagree and have not had experience with everything problemchild claimed.

SilverTauron: you basicly stated exactly what I fear I'm going to think when I handle an HK. After cleaning and detail stripping slide of my G26 last night I just dont see anything missing or lacking.

I guess I'm just trying to justify an HK for something different.

I'll probably end up with another Glock... The woes of researching and fussing over next gun purchase. A sig is still in the back of my mind as well after holding a P229 - loved it. I sound like my wife Boots shopping...

SilverTauron
11-24-2012, 7:45 AM
I have owned both and also a USP, HK is couple notches ABOVE glock..

The quality is nearly the same;think BMW vs Mercedes Benz.


Glock trigger guard is too small and rubs the bottom of my finger making my finger stick on the trigger..
...and the grip on a USP9 feels like a cheese grater to me. These details are personal preference.



Glock trigger is total crap. I hate the spongy stretchy feel of the striker and trigger..
The HK trigger is utter garbage. Not because its mechanically awful, but because a $1000 pistol should have the trigger pull from God and the ability to make a chick come on sight alone. The HK accomplishes neither. ;)


Glock slide release just plain sucks..

I work it just fine. See "personal preference".



Glock mag release sucks and requires repositioning of the gun in your hand to reach it or two hands..

Not in my hands it doesn't. HKs however have a disturbing tendency to not lock back when being gripped in a thumbs forward stance.


Glocks are NOT as accurate as a stock HK out of the box..

Then you need more practice at the range.

Glocks run unsupported chambers..

My .40 cal hasn't blown up yet.....


Glocks have a lessor ergonomic feel than HK..

Back to personal preference....

Glocks break.

So do Rolls-Royce cars.


Glocks require about 100+ in parts to make them halfway OK.

My NY1 equipped G22 has no modifications besides one:100 rounds a month of live fire practice. Works fine for me. :D

missiontrails
11-24-2012, 8:31 AM
I have owned both and also a USP, HK is couple notches ABOVE glock.

Glock trigger guard is too small and rubs the bottom of my finger making my finger stick on the trigger.

Glock trigger is total crap. I hate the spongy stretchy feel of the striker and trigger.

Glock slide release just plain sucks.

Glock mag release sucks and requires repositioning of the gun in your hand to reach it or two hands.

Glocks are NOT as accurate as a stock HK out of the box.

Glocks run unsupported chambers.

Glocks have a lessor ergonomic feel than HK.

Glocks break

Glocks require about 100+ in parts to make them halfway OK.

Accuracy: subjective, total BS.
Glock extended slide release $13 + 3 min to install
Glock extended mag release $6 + 5 min to install
Glock trigger enhancements $15 + 30 min to do the part and then the polish on another part.
Glock complete completion drop in Trigger $200 (we are still $200 less than a stock HK)
Unsupported chambers? Does that effect the 100,000's of rounds your Glock is good for?
What breaks on a Glock? Just curious.
Nope, Glocks run decent right out of the box.

So, what mods can you do to the crappy HK trigger pull? How many YouTube videos are out there now showing HK's choaking in torture tests? I owned a USP40 for 10 years, bought it in 1994, and THAT PLASTIC trigger felt like it was flexing when you pull it also.

Irv
11-24-2012, 8:16 PM
i think the H&K is probably the best polymer gun you can buy...

I have an HK45c and it is very good. The best would be the Wilson Combat KZ45 polymer.

Ron-Solo
11-25-2012, 12:24 AM
The trigger on my P2000 is the smoothest thing I have ever seen in any firearm I have ever handled, and tat is a lot over the years.

Much better than my M&P or Glock Pistolsever dreamed of being.

sirgiles
11-25-2012, 6:52 AM
What breaks on a Glock? Just curious.


lots.
my slide lock on my glock 19 3 gen. sheared off after 4k rounds.
the front plastic sights on my gen 17 fell of after hitting a barricade.
the magazines on my glock 22 gen 2 started to bulge after 2 years.
trigger bar spring on my glock 21 gen 3 broke after 8k and on the glock 35 after 5k (btw, this is the most common reported part that breaks).
even the american tennifer version on my glock 22 gen 4 already started to come off after a few holster draws.

glocks do break like anything mechanical but i just keep alot of extra parts.

missiontrails
11-25-2012, 7:55 AM
lots.
my slide lock on my glock 19 3 gen. sheared off after 4k rounds.
the front plastic sights on my gen 17 fell of after hitting a barricade.
the magazines on my glock 22 gen 2 started to bulge after 2 years.
trigger bar spring on my glock 21 gen 3 broke after 8k and on the glock 35 after 5k (btw, this is the most common reported part that breaks).
even the american tennifer version on my glock 22 gen 4 already started to come off after a few holster draws.

glocks do break like anything mechanical but i just keep alot of extra parts.

Ya, that is a plus.. the cheap parts. Ya, the Tennifer that's done here in the states might as well be called Melonite (which Tennifer actually is), because without sodium cyanide in the process, the finish won't be as hard. I will be replacing my plastic sights with Novaks.

sand951
11-25-2012, 10:09 AM
I have an HK USP and a Glock 21. I prefer the Glock. I like how it shoots and feels in my hand better than the HK.

Glamis
11-25-2012, 10:26 AM
I have an HK USP and a Glock 21. I prefer the Glock. I like how it shoots and feels in my hand better than the HK.

I'm just the opposite the HKs fit me the best. Shoot them both and see what fits you the best. May be hard to find a place with a P2000 for rent. My next HK is going to be p2000SK 9mm "night stand Gun"

I have two USP's expert.45 and 9mm full size in my line up.

Ibefuz
11-25-2012, 11:20 AM
Youre paying for the name. $100 for the "H" and another $100 for the "K"

problemchild
11-25-2012, 11:34 AM
Youre paying for the name. $100 for the "H" and another $100 for the "K"

I got my usp 45 full size for 800 on sale with night sights.

This is how it shoots...... (the left drift is my eyes)
http://www.michaelkdickson.com/oldsite/RENO%20SHOOT/gunpics/match_t.jpg

http://www.michaelkdickson.com/oldsite/RENO%20SHOOT/gunpics/usp45.jpg

starsnuffer
11-25-2012, 11:39 AM
Guns are cheap, ammo is expensive. Don't split hairs over a few hundred bucks for the gun, get the one that works better for you.

IMHO, the correct grip angle the HK offers over the glock is reason enough. I also like the fact that the fire modes/variants are easily interchangable. I converted my USPc from V1 to LEM, which I preferred, however I changed it back because I like having the same manual of arms when I decide to use a 1911.

-W

starsnuffer
11-25-2012, 11:39 AM
Guns are cheap, ammo is expensive. Don't split hairs over a few hundred bucks for the gun, get the one that works better for you.

IMHO, the correct grip angle the HK offers over the glock is reason enough. I also like the fact that the fire modes/variants are easily interchangable. I converted my USPc from V1 to LEM, which I preferred, however I changed it back because I like having the same manual of arms when I decide to use a 1911.

-W

Dhena81
11-25-2012, 2:30 PM
I have owned both and also a USP, HK is couple notches ABOVE glock.

Glock trigger guard is too small and rubs the bottom of my finger making my finger stick on the trigger. Sounds like a personal issue

Glock trigger is total crap. I hate the spongy stretchy feel of the striker and trigger. Again this is personal I personally hate the stretchy feeling of the HK trigger and think a stock Glock trigger is better than almost any factory mass produced handgun minus a PPQ or 1911

Glock slide release just plain sucks. Some call it a slide stop again training philosophy/personal issue that can be resolved thanks to VT/Glock

Glock mag release sucks and requires repositioning of the gun in your hand to reach it or two hands. Your personal opinion.

Glocks are NOT as accurate as a stock HK out of the box. So do you benchrest your combat grade sidearm or are you just that good?

Glocks run unsupported chambers. Why does that matter I thought you had a .45

Glocks have a lessor ergonomic feel than HK. Personal opinion some people don't like the HK magazine release.

Glocks break All things break how are your weak springs holding up

Glocks require about 100+ in parts to make them halfway OK. No Glocks only have 32 parts.

I got my usp 45 full size for 800 on sale with night sights.

This is how it shoots...... (the left drift is my eyes)
http://www.michaelkdickson.com/oldsite/RENO%20SHOOT/gunpics/match_t.jpg

http://www.michaelkdickson.com/oldsite/RENO%20SHOOT/gunpics/usp45.jpg

Wow you proved nothing.

You mad Bro?

missiontrails
11-25-2012, 3:08 PM
I got my usp 45 full size for 800 on sale with night sights.

This is how it shoots...... (the left drift is my eyes)
http://www.michaelkdickson.com/oldsite/RENO%20SHOOT/gunpics/match_t.jpg

http://www.michaelkdickson.com/oldsite/RENO%20SHOOT/gunpics/usp45.jpg

Is that point blank? 10 feet, 20 feet.... what?

missiontrails
11-25-2012, 3:12 PM
My Glock 17 today, at 40 feet, standing, and after drinking a lot of coffee. The fliers on there were me experimenting with different gripping styles and arm positions.

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd451/dehlers1/1AA42FEE-ABD7-48AD-AF5C-D4157D1C0737-47751-00000CF95A9D94A0.jpg

INFAMOUS762X39
11-25-2012, 4:45 PM
HK's Polygonal barrel? I am sure this has to do something with the price.

missiontrails
11-25-2012, 5:12 PM
HK's Polygonal barrel? I am sure this has to do something with the price.

So does Glock.

RoundEye
11-26-2012, 12:12 PM
I have many GLOCKs, and I love them. For me they have an intended purpose in life: GSSF, Carry, ... I also have an P2000, and I love that as well. If I had to choose one over the other, I would probably choose the P2K, but that's just because I like the way it shoots and the feel of it in my hand a little more than I do my GLOCKs. IMHO, it's much better than a GLOCK in many ways, but there are also things I don't like. I've carried and shot both, and to be honest, each of them are able to get the job done when it comes down to it. Just get the one that feels best to you and you can shoot the best.

Some real differences that may (and I mean may) make a difference in feel:

Bore Axis - It's definetly higher on the P2K, so the recoil may seem a little more flippy.
Grip - The angle is different and the P2K has removable backstraps where "most" GLOCKs do not.
Accessory Rail - The HK rail is proprietary.
Decocker - The P2K has a decocker and a three position hammer.
Magazine Release - P2K is a lever and the GLOCK has a button.
Width - The P2K is thinner or flatter.

I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones that come to mind as the ones I notice the most.

Knomad
11-26-2012, 10:54 PM
Actually I'm about to go looking for a P2000.

Why? Because I finally woke up and realized that I didn't save all that much by buying a Glock.

I currently have $135 in the gun above and beyond the original purchase price and not counting holsters. There's an extended Vickers slide stop, because the factory one is a stamped metal joke which allegedly will wear out if you use it routinely to release the slide (uh, I thought that's what they were for?); There's an extended Vickers mag release, because I prefer it over the sharp-edged factory one. There's the 30274 ejector, which did not fix the brass to face issue. There's the Apex extractor, which almost but not quite fixed the brass to face issue. I currently have a non-LCI bearing on order for another $2 ($8 with shipping and handling) which I've been assured will finally fix the last little bit of remaining brass to face issue. I haven't done anything with the sights yet, but I really don't care for the factory sights and if I keep the gun... which is now uncertain at best... those will get replaced too. That would put me something like $240 over original cost. So I'm saving... what?

Sorry, I'm done buying in to the propaganda. I tried to like my Glock, I really did. I tried for a year, it was my EDC for most of that time. I've put 1600 rounds through it, and despite the fact that the original design is beautifully minimalist and simple, I have lost faith in the weapon and in the company, and I'm unwilling to continue given that a gun is intended to potentially defend human lives.

It is not OK to get hit in the face by brass from what is marketed as a duty gun. At least mine rarely stovepipes, but others have told me that they do have that problem. I don't know what percentage of 9mm Glocks have this problem, and I don't care. If it's even 5 percent, that's too many for a self defense weapon.

It is not OK for a company selling self defense weapons to pretend the problem doesn't exist. All indications are that they are unable or unwilling to fix the problem, or at least they have not done so to date. As a result, I've decided that I'm no longer able to support them.

End result: I'm buying an HK. They have a reputation for reliability, and I've never heard of a brass to face issue. I'm told that they just work, right out of the box. I won't need to buy anything except a holster. What a concept.

Actually my M&P 45 just works out of the box too, however they do not currently make a G19-sized 9mm, and the M&P 45 is just a little big for EDC in my particular circumstances, so once past however long it takes to find a new gun plus the 10-day waiting period, it will go back to being my woods gun. Same price as a Glock, actually a little less, and I haven't had to buy anything at all to make it work the way it should. In fact maybe I'll buy a Shield once they're available in CA, for those hot inland summer days.

So I'm OK with paying extra for a HK. Yes, maybe part of that is for the name, and that's alright. Whatever the difference is, I've already wasted way more than that in lost time and aggravation. I'm done with gun drama, and I'm willing to pay a little extra for quality.

Ranger20
11-27-2012, 7:56 AM
the p2000 is a great gun. but on purpose i can get it to weak hand stove pipe nearly every shot. with target ammo. my g19 wont. doing the same test. while that doesnt happen with sd ammo with either. i still have more confidence in my simple glock 19. ymmv. the p 2000 is still a great pistol.

gotshotgun?
11-27-2012, 6:37 PM
Forget the p2000, what about the p30?

SilverTauron
11-27-2012, 6:54 PM
So I'm OK with paying extra for a HK. Yes, maybe part of that is for the name, and that's alright. Whatever the difference is, I've already wasted way more than that in lost time and aggravation. I'm done with gun drama, and I'm willing to pay a little extra for quality.

For me, the Glock was the best choice compared to the alternative for two reasons.

My 1911 wasn't especially valuable but it was reliable. Catch for me was what would happen when something broke;i'd be looking at a gunsmith visit or a factory warranty claim, neither of which was something I was interested in paying for. Nor am I in a position to fund $150 worth of files, tools, and books to kick off my amateur gunsmithing career.
For the Glock,the repair process is I order the new part, and put it in the gun. Period.

HK's are great guns, but for me they'll always be range queens. Perhaps I'm too frugal for my own good, but I'll never carry a pistol worth that much outside of a situational emergency. In the event I send a goblin to meet his maker, the Polizei will be confiscating my carry gun and the best case scenario after that happens is its returned to me in 6 months after the case is disposed of.

Worse case, my weapon disappears into the County Sherriff's gun safe and I get a sob story at the police station.

Given that,I'd rather forfeit a beat up Glock 22 then a shiny HK P30.

sammy
11-27-2012, 7:00 PM
Just shoot them side by side and it'll be clear.

I agree. The Glock is a much better value and design. Never understood the need for a DA/SA system.

missiontrails
11-27-2012, 9:53 PM
Forget the p2000, what about the p30?

Yep, if I'm spending the money....a P30L it is;)

Q619
11-28-2012, 1:05 AM
Love my P30 9mm. It's been flawless for near 3500 rounds now. I shoot american eagle at the range and carry gold dots and winchester bonded. It's got the best ergos and most solid feel out of every gun I've ever shot or owned. The LEM trigger is great, it's an excellent combat/duty trigger system. It's not for shooting matches with or bragging about with your 1911 crowd but for its intended purpose it's what the doctor ordered. Not a fan of sa/da though, especially not from HK. The best sa/da I've seen is sig's and I still dislike it.

I don't understand people being cheap with guns....get what you want. If you actually shoot the thing, you'll be spending much more on ammo than you ever did on the gun.

starsnuffer
11-28-2012, 8:30 AM
I don't mind the SA/DA in HK's, because the safety works just like the safety of my 1911s. I don't actually use the decocker and carry condition 1.

Nothing wrong with LEM, I ran mine in LEM for a while, I just feel more comfortable with the tried and true (for me).

-W

Saym14
11-28-2012, 1:20 PM
the HK is more becuase even if you load rounds in the mags backwards it still functions.