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P.Meister
11-22-2012, 11:07 AM
I have a simple question, did some searching but didn't find anything specifically relevant, although I'm sure it has been addressed.

Can a non CCW holder carry openly, concealed, loaded or unloaded on private property not owned by the carrier, with permission of the property owner?

My interpretation of 12026(a) "...any citizen of the United States or legal resident ... who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident..." is that carrying is lawful on land owned by the carrying citizen, but that it doesn't continue to say it is unlawful to carry on another citizens land.

If I am mistaken can you please site the relevant section?

Thanks

taperxz
11-22-2012, 11:31 AM
I have a simple question, did some searching but didn't find anything specifically relevant, although I'm sure it has been addressed.

Can a non CCW holder carry openly, concealed, loaded or unloaded on private property not owned by the carrier, with permission of the property owner?

My interpretation of 12026(a) "...any citizen of the United States or legal resident ... who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident..." is that carrying is lawful on land owned by the carrying citizen, but that it doesn't continue to say it is unlawful to carry on another citizens land.

If I am mistaken can you please site the relevant section?

Thanks

Your question is a little broad for a straight answer. You need to be more specific on "property" IE: where the property is, what the situation is, like out in the country vs. someones front yard in the city.

taperxz
11-22-2012, 11:34 AM
Keep in mind that in certain situations it may not be legal for even the owner to carry in this manner "outside the walls of their property"

P.Meister
11-22-2012, 11:35 AM
Your question is a little broad for a straight answer. You need to be more specific on "property" IE: where the property is, what the situation is, like out in the country vs. someones front yard in the city.

Let's say property is a homestead. Casual situation, no particular high threat. Not country, not downtown. Neighboring houses within say 50 feet. How would location affect the answer? I can understand differences for leased or rented apartments, shared space etc. Also lets assume this is over 1000 ft away from schools, as I know that adds restrictions.

WolfmanJak
11-22-2012, 12:00 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=318678

P.Meister
11-22-2012, 12:28 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=318678

Awesome, so private land is considered public space unless you physically obstruct the public. :rolleyes:

That pretty much answers my question, physically secluded from the public, on private property, loaded open/concealed carry legal. Front gate is open, no open carry, need CCW for concealed carry.

What I find ironic is having your property fenced/gated adds some extent of security, and you are able to further secure your safety by carrying. With no first line of de"fence", you are prohibited from securing your safety by carrying.

wildhawker
11-22-2012, 4:02 PM
In a post-Bear world, the analysis changes.

WolfmanJak
11-22-2012, 6:54 PM
Read the actual case that deals with this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=strider%20vs%20la%20county&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcaselaw.lp.findlaw.com%2Fdata2%2F californiastatecases%2FB204571.PDF&ei=2vKuULXvG8n2iQL2i4HQDw&usg=AFQjCNEPWLpeZ-VnxKBr20FS38dE88-LTA&cad=rja

P.Meister
11-22-2012, 7:46 PM
Thanks that explained it well. Based on that ruling it seems safe to assume as long as I'm not in a driveway or publicly visible/accessible area, I would be free to carry open loaded/unloaded.

I'm going to separate carrying concealed into it's own instance, say I were out of what was considered a publicly accessible space, say an underground safe, quite inacessible to the general public. *snip* I just want to cobfirm confirm concealed vs open makes no difference and I am protected by 12026 on private property not owned by me.

Quiet
11-23-2012, 6:15 AM
I'm going to separate carrying concealed into it's own instance, say I were out of what was considered a publicly accessible. I'm in my buddies underground safe. I'm carrying concealed and the ATF raids my friends safe. I'm in no way related to his possession of illegally configured assault weapons. There's nothing unlawful about my concealed carry correct? Sorry about the ATF part just trying to make it more interesting, and to confirm concealed vs open makes no difference and I am protected by 12026 on private property not owned by me.

Why would the Feds (BATFE) raid for "assault weapons"?
There's no such thing as an assault weapon under Federal laws.

If you are on the property when it is raided by LEOs, you will be treated as a suspect to whatever criminal activity that is alleged and/or taking place, until such time they clear you of any wrong doings.
Bottom line... Don't hang out with people committing crimes.

Lives_In_Fresno
11-23-2012, 7:13 AM
Thanks that explained it well. Based on that ruling it seems safe to assume as long as I'm not in a driveway or publicly visible/accessible area, I would be free to carry open loaded/unloaded.

I'm going to separate carrying concealed into it's own instance, say I were out of what was considered a publicly accessible. I'm in my buddies underground safe. I'm carrying concealed and the ATF raids my friends safe. I'm in no way related to his possession of illegally configured assault weapons. There's nothing unlawful about my concealed carry correct? Sorry about the ATF part just trying to make it more interesting, and to confirm concealed vs open makes no difference and I am protected by 12026 on private property not owned by me.

This is getting interesting...

Why don't you just come out with the actual situation? What criminal activity are you really concerned about?

What is motivating you to carry? :)

P.Meister
11-23-2012, 7:35 AM
I knew that would be taken the wrong way. It's completely hypothetical. I have never carried open or concealed. Asking about the concealed part is because if I did have a handgun holstered and was wearing my typical jacket, it would be considered concealed although I would not be actively trying to conceal it. I am trying to gain an understanding for the basic laws regarding carrying in California.

taperxz
11-23-2012, 7:40 AM
I knew that would be taken the wrong way. It's completely hypothetical. I have never carried open or concealed. I am trying to gain and understanding for the basic laws regarding carrying in California.

FYI Hypotheticals get locked usually in this forum. Do you not understand that given 100 hypothetical you can end up with 100 different outcomes?

This thread would go side ways inside of 10 posts of hypo's

taperxz
11-23-2012, 7:43 AM
OP, you need to read the various laws, take into account city/county ordinances, understand Licensed carry laws, open carry laws and their exemptions of both hand guns and rifles, discharge laws in different parts of the states ect. ect.

At some point you need to do your initial research on your own and then come back and ask more specific questions. This is for your benefit.

P.Meister
11-23-2012, 7:50 AM
Good advice, I have been doing my basic research and had a simple question (or what I thought was) about carrying on other peoples private property. My last post was a mistake and was definitely too hypothetical. Thank again for your help, feel free to lock thread mods.