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Cylarz
11-20-2012, 6:32 PM
I was at a local gun shop today looking at a Rock Island Armory compact .45 like this one, comparably priced:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=317932186

It would go onto my CCW permit if purchased. I mentioned to the store owner that I liked the price on this weapon, but had been recommended toward the Kimber Ultra Raptor II, which my cousin carries with HIS permit. But the KUR II retails for closer to $1200, more than twice as much. The store owner said that this is due to the greater amount of custom parts fitting done with Kimbers. Attention to detail is what you're paying for, he said.

I mentioned that if I had a .45, for cost reasons I'd shoot a lot of off-brand Russian-made steel cased ammo through it. He seemed to think that if I was doing that, I'd be actually better off with a cheaper 45 like the Rock Island model, saying that brass cases have "give" to them and steel cases do not, and this "give" is more critical when shooting a more-precisely-fitted weapon like a Kimber or other high-end 45.

Full disclosure: The store owner had a Rock Island pistol in his display case but did not have any Kimber Ultra Raptor II's for sale. Was he right about the ammo or was he just trying to sell me a RI because that's what he has handy?

ACfixer
11-20-2012, 6:43 PM
I know opinions are likely to fly in every direction concerning this issue... but I only shoot brass case ammo through my nicer guns. It has nothing to do with the tolerances (in my mind) so much as it has to do with the steel case ammo being a little harder on the weapon. I really have no facts to back this up, but I'll shoot anything through my Glock, but I wouldn't shoot Russian ammo though any of my 1911's which are all at least on par with the Kimber.

I think they'd both shoot the Tula or whatever just fine, but I'd be less worried about tearing up an RIA than I would a Kimber.

Personally, I'd buy the Kimber and shoot PMC or Armscor brass through it. Or even some quality re-pop. It's not that much more than the Russian ammo and it smells a heck of a lot better. ;) The RIA is a real decent gun for the bucks, but (again just IMO) you'll really enjoy the Kimber a lot more.

jben
11-20-2012, 6:55 PM
I (used to) have a RIA 1911 and I have a Kimber 1911.
When I bought a case of Wolf (steel case) I tried it in both guns. The RIA jammed regularly with the Wolf. Didn't matter what magazines I used. The Kimber ate it no problem.
YMMV:shrug:

JeremyS
11-20-2012, 10:20 PM
The steel that they use for steel cased ammo is much, much softer than the steel your gun is made of. It should never scratch the chamber or break ejectors or other things that people warn it might. They assume it's hard because it's steel, but there's a lot of types of steels and a lot of different ways to heat treat and anneal and such. That said, it's harder and stiffer than brass.

The quality and cost of the steel stuff is low, so you're more likely to experience hard primers and duds for sure, and maybe more likely to come across over-pressure rounds. It's also super dirty, as the powder just leaves a ton of residue and carbon everywhere. I wouldn't run steel ammo through a really nice gun either. I've run many hundred through my CZ but would not have considered it in a couple very nice 1911's I had. I won't run it in my nice AR upper but I'll run it in my cheap setup.

BTW -- you can get quality reloads, like those from www.freedommunitions.com, for the same price and sometimes less vs. the Russian steel stuff. It'll burn cleaner, be more consistent, have softer primers that actually ignite every time, and it's brass cased.

Euphoria526
11-20-2012, 10:23 PM
The steel that they use for steel cased ammo is much, much softer than the steel your gun is made of. It should never scratch the chamber or break ejectors or other things that people warn it might. They assume it's hard because it's steel, but there's a lot of types of steels and a lot of different ways to heat treat and anneal and such. That said, it's harder and stiffer than brass.

The quality and cost of the steel stuff is low, so you're more likely to experience hard primers and duds for sure, and maybe more likely to come across over-pressure rounds. It's also super dirty, as the powder just leaves a ton of residue and carbon everywhere. I wouldn't run steel ammo through a really nice gun either. I've run many hundred through my CZ but would not have considered it in a couple very nice 1911's I had. I won't run it in my nice AR upper but I'll run it in my cheap setup.

BTW -- you can get quality reloads, like those from www.freedommunitions.com, for the same price and sometimes less vs. the Russian steel stuff. It'll burn cleaner, be more consistent, have softer primers that actually ignite every time, and it's brass cased.
this, that and i just bought some of FM blaster 9mms. update soon

Steve_In_29
11-21-2012, 5:43 PM
The Kimber has no more "hand fitted" parts then the Rock Island and a $1200 pistol isn't high end as far as 1911s go. I put the $2K plus pistols from Ed Brown, Wilson, Les Bear, etc in that category.

I own both a RIA Tactical and a Kimber CDP Pro. The Kimber had MULTIPLE defects right out of the box, to include what was ultimately determined (by my use of a caliper) after it's first trip back to Kimber to be a frame with non-parallel rails. Kimber basically blew me off and tried to say I didn't know what I was talking about and despite two attempts at repair (to include once by the head of their custom shop) I still have a pistol that isn't what it should be for the money I paid.

You are way ahead to get the RIA, so spend the saved money on ammo. If the steel ammo works in your pistol and you don't mind cleaning it more often then there is no problem with using it.

Steve_In_29
11-21-2012, 5:44 PM
duplicate post