PDA

View Full Version : Might be jumping the Glock ship in favor of S&W


MXRider
11-20-2012, 1:07 PM
So yesterday my buddy hands me his S&W MP9 with Apex trigger and stippled grip, we go in the back yard and I run a box of 100 WWB through it, I pretty much fall in love. I have 3 Glock 9mm's currently. A stock gen 3 19, a stock gen 2 17, and a gen 3 34 with a Glocktriggers kit and some other bells and whistles. I immediately shot the MP9 very well, and it feels a bit more intuitive to me with regard to how I naturally point the weapon and where my sight picture lines up.

Anyone else have this happen? I'm thinking of picking up one of these before Christmas and copying his pistol to the letter.

12voltguy
11-20-2012, 1:09 PM
if you like it buy it
don't matterv what others think
that said I like glocks
but I'm buying a sig 1911 xo cause I like those too

PAKALO
11-20-2012, 1:17 PM
I think everything Smith makes is quality. that being said... there poly frames are trash. both models (sd and m&p) just feel really cheap in my hand compared to my Glocks.. Glock has been doing this over 20 yrs, Smith just needs some more time. by far they are better than the Springer XD...
bottom line get what you want to get (if you go to the private firearms sales here you will notice theres a lot of M&P for sale!!! wonder why??
good luck

BamBam-31
11-20-2012, 1:19 PM
Both are fine firearms. No need to feel loyalty to a certain brand, make, or model. If it works for you, great. Having choices is what's great about a free market system.

MXRider
11-20-2012, 1:28 PM
I think everything Smith makes is quality. that being said... there poly frames are trash. both models (sd and m&p) just feel really cheap in my hand compared to my Glocks.. Glock has been doing this over 20 yrs, Smith just needs some more time. by far they are better than the Springer XD...
bottom line get what you want to get (if you go to the private firearms sales here you will notice theres a lot of M&P for sale!!! wonder why??
good luck

Hadn't heard of many failures with them. Or at least any more than other plastic pistols on the market.

Both are fine firearms. No need to feel loyalty to a certain brand, make, or model. If it works for you, great. Having choices is what's great about a free market system.

The thing is all my gear is for Glock's, and I like to stick to one platform for training and carry use. Some guys like to switch off back and forth, but most likely if the one works out for me long term, I would be completely switching over. I figure these plastic pistols are basically disposable, and at the prices I get them for here ($500) it's no big deal.

I mainly started this thread to see how many others have made the switch as the Glock is old school now and the M&P has gotten much more popular. Also to see if others had similar results. I am hoping to get some runs in on a shot timer this weekend to see if I am faster with one, or if it's just the placebo effect and in my head because it's different.

Jel
11-20-2012, 1:34 PM
If the S&W fits you better, feels better in your hands, and you feel that you can shoot better with it, then go for it. Also if you don't mind spending the extra $$ getting all the accessories for that platform then, again, go for it.

You shouldn't care what others will be thinking. You will be the one pulling the trigger not them. To make things easier on the pocket you can always sell all your Glocks and your gear.

GMG
11-20-2012, 1:40 PM
I can't comment on Glocks because I've never shot one. With that said I am very happy with my M&P's, fit me to a tee.

DannyInSoCal
11-20-2012, 1:54 PM
Why jump ship?

Own them ALL.

Now get yourself a couple nickel plated sissy pistols too.

Carry on...

MXRider
11-20-2012, 2:02 PM
Why jump ship?

Own them ALL.

Now get yourself a couple nickel plated sissy pistols too.

Carry on...

Lol. Reason for jumping ship is to fund the gear necessary for the change. I would ideally like to do the change with as little out of pocket expense as possible. Picking up 2 full size and 1 compact model plus the necessary holsters, sights and internal mods as well as spare parts.

I have lots of Glock parts, holsters, sights, tools, etc. However I'm not married to them. I look at them as a disposable tool.

Mr310
11-20-2012, 2:45 PM
That is the Glock Perfection; they're essentially disposable handguns that you use as a tool and feel no emotional attachment to. If someone breaks in, and you're looking at the guns on your nightstand, the Glock would be the go-to for me as when the police take it, I feel nothing. If it were my 1911, I'd be crying like when I put my dog down.

That said, I think the M&P is in the same roll, and that it suits that role well. If you like it, why not go for it? They've gotten the early kinks hammered out, from what I've heard. In addition, there's a ton of aftermarket support, and I hear that the trigger can only get better than from where it currently is.


In addition, and most importantly, I call dibs on your Gen 2 17.

MA2
11-20-2012, 2:50 PM
It's more fun with variety, it does not have to be trainig everytime at the range.

Like it, get it =]

InGrAM
11-20-2012, 3:02 PM
Glocks are great guns, but so are M&P's. I would keep your gen 2 g17's and sell the gen 3 you have.

I have posted it and said it many times before, I love my gen 2 g19 but when I finally got my hands on an M&P with a small back strap it was just such a better ergonomically designed gun (for me) that I couldn't help but tossing the glock in the safe and start using the M&P9 as my go to gun.

BTW, S&W has been making polymer framed guns successfully for almost 20 years so don't listen to certain posters. They have no idea what they are posting about.

SilverTauron
11-20-2012, 3:28 PM
So yesterday my buddy hands me his S&W MP9 with Apex trigger and stippled grip, we go in the back yard and I run a box of 100 WWB through it, I pretty much fall in love. I have 3 Glock 9mm's currently. A stock gen 3 19, a stock gen 2 17, and a gen 3 34 with a Glocktriggers kit and some other bells and whistles. I immediately shot the MP9 very well, and it feels a bit more intuitive to me with regard to how I naturally point the weapon and where my sight picture lines up.

Anyone else have this happen? I'm thinking of picking up one of these before Christmas and copying his pistol to the letter.

After shooting a Glock and M&P9, I'd pick the former over the Smith & Wesson pistol. The American gun is just as good in terms of quality and accuracy as a Glock, but the stock trigger on the Austrian pistol is superior.

When I shot the standard M&P9 there basically was no discernible trigger reset, whereas the Glock has a strong and short reset position. This is not to say that the M&P9 is somehow worthless, but the dynamic favors Glock in my estimation considering you don't have to put another $50 worth of parts in it to get a satisfactory trigger.

If RUMINT is to be believed, S&W is installing the Shield's improved trigger into the standard pistols after December.

MXRider
11-20-2012, 3:32 PM
Like I said, I would be installing the Apex trigger. Never shot a stock one yet.

tbc
11-20-2012, 3:33 PM
Glocks are great guns, but so are M&P's. I would keep your gen 2 g17's and sell the gen 3 you have.

I have posted it and said it many times before, I love my gen 2 g19 but when I finally got my hands on an M&P with a small back strap it was just such a better ergonomically designed gun (for me) that I couldn't help but tossing the glock in the safe and start using the M&P9 as my go to gun.

BTW, S&W has been making polymer framed guns successfully for almost 20 years so don't listen to certain posters. They have no idea what they are posting about.

+1 on his suggestion. Glocks and M&Ps are both striker-fired platform. They are not significantly different as comparing to DA/SA system.


Sent from iPhone through Tapatalk

Raider888
11-20-2012, 3:49 PM
Smith & Wesson revolvers are the best in the world. Glock is my HD/SD pistol that I can trust. I buy others like Les Baer, Sig, H&K, and Walther...lol.

Can't buy anything here
11-20-2012, 3:54 PM
Both are uber reliable. See which one fits your hand better...I like the M&P grip better...it's also a better looking gun if that matters to you....:)

MXRider
11-20-2012, 4:04 PM
Well, I put my 3 Glocks up for sale in the classifieds. We will see what sells first and go from there.

Fate
11-20-2012, 4:04 PM
Surprised shenanigans hasn't posted yet. He jumped ship on Glocks after being a long time user IIRC.

nrgcruizer
11-20-2012, 6:42 PM
If you have to mod the pistol out of the box to get it to do this, or that, it ain't worth getting. But that's just my .02 cents.

I have shot my friend's M&P 9. I wasn't keen on the pistol at all (more out personal preference).

I understand that you want to stick to one platform. But I have others that I'll take with me to the range to let my friends try out, or just plain have fun with. I normally start & end my sessions at the range with my Glock 21SF. I play with the other plethora of toys in my party box during mid-session.

9mmepiphany
11-20-2012, 8:18 PM
The best way to decide isn't how they feeling your hand or even how well you're placing your shot a a measured pace.

Since these aren't precision target pistols, a good measurable comparison would be which one allows you to accurately place shots on target the most quickly. All you need is two pistols, a timer and a target.

Shoot both pistols back-to-back in a Bill Drill. Reacting to a signal, draw and fire 6 rounds into a 6"-8" circle (8" paper plate). Start at 7-10 yards and keep all your shots on the plate...compare which allows you to do it faster.

That is how I settled on the M&P9 as opposed to my G19 for IDPA competition. I did go a bit overboard and add the Apex Tactical FSS, now I like it better than my 1911 too

tbhracing
11-20-2012, 8:37 PM
I left Glock as primary to go to Sigs. The Sigs just fit my hands better. Add in no finger grooves and fat grip, I am happy.

pyromensch
11-20-2012, 9:08 PM
i have been a Browning design guy, for 30+ yrs 1911/hipower. never liked the glock, have shot it, and respect it...just not my cup of tea. tried an XD, didn't feel right, but an m&p, liked it the first time i held it, and have shot it quite a bit, without a hiccup....you won't be sorry. (the trigger, isn't an issue for me).

fmunk
11-20-2012, 9:58 PM
FYI, the polymer version of the Apex enhanced trigger will be available in January. It will also be available as part of their forward set sear (FSS) kit at a lower price than the kit now. Shoot it first with the stock trigger. The internet makes a big deal about it, it didn't bother me one bit.

Legasat
11-20-2012, 10:14 PM
M&P is a great platform. S&W is a great company with the best customer service in the industry. Many people swear by their Glock, but more and more people are discovering the M&P! Both are reliable, accurate, and not too expensive. What's not to love?

Jet Setter
11-20-2012, 10:41 PM
Anyone else have this happen? I'm thinking of picking up one of these before Christmas and copying his pistol to the letter.

Agree. I was all set to purchase a G22 or G23 then held a M&P40 FS and bought it. Felt much better in my hands. Have not regretted it one bit.

Jet Setter
11-20-2012, 10:43 PM
Much like Pyro - trigger is not a problem so I don't have the desire to upgrade to the Apex mods. Great out of the box.

echang72
11-20-2012, 10:51 PM
i think you should keep your glocks.. just incase you end up not liking the s&w. Compare the two ... shoot both of em together.. and make a decision after you shoot both of em side by side.

ShoootA
11-21-2012, 2:21 PM
i think you should keep your glocks.. just incase you end up not liking the s&w. Compare the two ... shoot both of em together.. and make a decision after you shoot both of em side by side.

X2

I have a glock 23 and my bro has a m&p .40. The m&p felt nicer in my hands but I shoot my glock much better. I'm sure it's just me and my technique but if I shoot my glock reliably with accuracy then I'm gonna stick with with glock.

rsrocket1
11-21-2012, 2:38 PM
Buy the 40 instead. You can buy a 9mm barrel for < $70 and a 9mm mag and then you'll have 2 calibers. Get the 357 sig barrel and you'll have three. You can't move up with the M&P9.

stix213
11-21-2012, 2:49 PM
I really like the M&P with the apex trigger. Hate the stock one though. I only haven't bought one because I still like my glocks and don't see me replacing my g17c as my primary handgun. I understand though liking the m&p + apex enough to switch though, good setup.

stix213
11-21-2012, 2:52 PM
Buy the 40 instead. You can buy a 9mm barrel for < $70 and a 9mm mag and then you'll have 2 calibers. Get the 357 sig barrel and you'll have three. You can't move up with the M&P9.

My friend did this exactly, .40 with 9 and 357sig barrels.

knucklehead0202
11-21-2012, 9:54 PM
no doubt this is CALguns, where people are more concerned about the availability of accessories than they are whether the damn gun is funtional. i don't care that there's more crap available for glocks, i can't shoot 'em and don't like 'em. i also feel that a good gun really doesn't require accessorizing, usually just for people who feel the need for decoration or something. i now own 2 pistols, neither of which have a rail, laser, flashlight, pearl handles, 24" rims or anything on them. we get along just fine. if it feels good to you, who cares what anyone else thinks? buy it, shoot it, love it. if it makes you like the other ones less, get rid of them. no shame in enjoying what you own.

Ron-Solo
11-21-2012, 10:26 PM
I have the M&P 9, 9c, and .45, as well as a couple of Glock 19's. All are great guns, but I prefer the M&P pistols every time. They just fit my hand better, and the triggers are fine just out of the box IMO.

MXRider
11-22-2012, 4:16 AM
The trigger break is fine for me, but the reset is very vague. I handled a stock one yesterday at the store and love everything about a stock version, but the trigger. The apex kit really is worth it IMO.

I will be running some drills on Friday along side my worked over Glock 34 and see what I am actually faster with.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

hundreddollarman
11-22-2012, 6:53 AM
The trigger break is fine for me, but the reset is very vague. I handled a stock one yesterday at the store and love everything about a stock version, but the trigger. The apex kit really is worth it IMO.

That was probably a pre-Shield model. The M&P Shield's trigger got so many favorable reviews that Smith & Wesson is planning to put it into the remainder of the M&P line going forward. If you're going to get one, I'd double-check if the gun was manufactured pre- or post-Shield.

MistWolf
11-22-2012, 7:06 AM
I think everything Smith makes is quality. that being said... there poly frames are trash. both models (sd and m&p) just feel really cheap in my hand compared to my Glocks.. Glock has been doing this over 20 yrs, Smith just needs some more time. by far they are better than the Springer XD...
bottom line get what you want to get (if you go to the private firearms sales here you will notice theres a lot of M&P for sale!!! wonder why??
good luck

That's strange. The Glock has always felt cheap in my hands, so I figured Glocks were trash.

My choices boiled down to either an M&P 9 or a PPQ. Because I liked the trigger and how the controls were laid out on the PPQ, that's what I got. My brother has put many shots downrange with a Glock and carries one on duty. He says it's the best pistol he's ever shot and I trust his judgement. But Glocks have never fit my hand well and I've never liked the trigger. Just couldn't warm up to them.

From all reports, the M&P 9 is a good pistol. Some were having accuracy issues which can be fixed with a replacement barrel. In the end, you'll have to decide for yourself if you make the switch or not. You can check with G&R Tactical and see what they have in stock
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=SMWE

Oceanbob
11-22-2012, 8:01 AM
Why jump ship?

Own them ALL.

Now get yourself a couple nickel plated sissy pistols too.

Carry on...

This^^^^

I have Glocks from the late 1980s that still run perfect; no frame issues. A couple of my Colt .45 Autos from that era have frame cracks. So i respect Polymer pistols.

Own everything. :D

ElDub1950
11-22-2012, 8:40 AM
Not sure it makes sense to dump all your Glocks and replace them all after one date with an S&W!

Why not replace one and keep some variety?

huckberry668
11-22-2012, 10:58 AM
Brand loyalty is unnecessary in firearm ownership. An open minded gun nut is a happy gun nut.

DrLecter
11-22-2012, 3:29 PM
Not a big fan of non revolver smiths. But if you like it, buy it! No need to jump ship.

Sam
11-22-2012, 6:47 PM
I recently went from shooting primarily M&Ps to Glocks. While the M&Ps seem to be more ergonomic, however I don't notice a significant difference when shooting. The trigger with a stock M&P is horrendous and really needs Apex parts to be acceptable. Even with Apex parts the reset is not as good as Glock, although the trigger pull is better than a Glock that has a minus connector and .25 trigger job. I haven't done a ton of shooting them side by side but I feel as though I shoot them fairly equally but the nod goes to the Glock due to the reset. I went with the Glock because the reset is better and because I have owned Glock standard capacity magazines since the 1990's.

The M&P9s have reported accuracy problems and the newer Glocks in 9mm have reported extraction problems. Apex makes a Glock extractor that fixes the extraction issues and they are releasing a barrel that will fix the M&P accuracy issues.

Both are quality guns and both would serve you well. Everything else equal, pick what you shoot best. Good luck!

9mmepiphany
11-22-2012, 8:48 PM
Even with Apex parts the reset is not as good as Glock, although the trigger pull is better than a Glock that has a minus connector and .25 trigger job. I haven't done a ton of shooting them side by side but I feel as though I shoot them fairly equally but the nod goes to the Glock due to the reset.
This isn't directed specifically at you, but rather all the folks who have mentioned the indistinct reset in this and other M&P threads.

Why is the discreet reset so important to you?
What do you use it for after you initial orientation to the gun and you've learned how far to release the trigger to reset it?

I understand how an audible and tactile reset can be useful when first familiarizing yourself with a new pistol and determining where the reset point is in the trigger travel. But do you slowly release your trigger to that point when shooting more quickly?
Are you resetting your trigger in series or in parallel with recovery from muzzle flip?

Once you've determined how far to release the trigger to reset it, you can train your finger how far to come forward off the trigger. When shooting at even a moderate speed of 3-4 shots/second, if you are waiting to hear or feel the reset of the trigger, you're going to be behind the curve of making the next accurate shot.

Are most folks just not trying to shoot more rapidly while maintaining accuracy?

I went with the Glock because the reset is better and because I have owned Glock standard capacity magazines since the 1990's.
Now this makes complete sense

victor1echo
11-22-2012, 8:52 PM
it feels a bit more intuitive to me with regard to how I naturally point the weapon and where my sight picture lines up.

Anyone else have this happen?
Yes, but for me it was a Kimber. I was shooting my glock 21 terribly. Missed the target. I try my buddies Kimber, and was placing them all in a big old hole. After 3 three years of wanting one, i bought one yesterday. I was thinking to myself, I could of bought 2 glocks. Oh well, I love the gun!

Ranger20
11-22-2012, 8:58 PM
The best way to decide isn't how they feeling your hand or even how well you're placing your shot a a measured pace.

Since these aren't precision target pistols, a good measurable comparison would be which one allows you to accurately place shots on target the most quickly. All you need is two pistols, a timer and a target.

Shoot both pistols back-to-back in a Bill Drill. Reacting to a signal, draw and fire 6 rounds into a 6"-8" circle (8" paper plate). Start at 7-10 yards and keep all your shots on the plate...compare which allows you to do it faster.

That is how I settled on the M&P9 as opposed to my G19 for IDPA competition. I did go a bit overboard and add the Apex Tactical FSS, now I like it better than my 1911 too


I was going to write something similar then saw 9mmepiphany quote..
Who said it better than I would have.....

I did exactly this with all my pistols.. and a rented G19... The results were without question which I shot best... So I am going back to a G19 from my Sigs and colts etc...

NorCalK9.com
11-22-2012, 10:27 PM
Here's a picture of a Glock 27 "mine" . The other is a slightly used mp... Glock won! MP couldn't cycle after the water test and couldn't chamber after it feel in alil dirt.... Glock did fine!
SEE ATTACHED PICTURE

SilverTauron
11-23-2012, 3:25 AM
This isn't directed specifically at you, but rather all the folks who have mentioned the indistinct reset in this and other M&P threads.

Why is the discreet reset so important to you?
What do you use it for after you initial orientation to the gun and you've learned how far to release the trigger to reset it?

This is exactly the problem-on the M&P9, you CAN'T learn how far to release the trigger to reset it. You don't feel it period. Thus I was forced to let it all the way out to ensure I actually did reset the trigger. When I shot it and tried to ride the reset i'd sometimes short-stroke it and get a 'false start'; a very undesirable thing in a defensive pistol.

With the Glock, I can literally ride the reset and get quick hits without concern of short stroking the trigger. Since no concealable handgun is a death ray, multiple shots WILL be necessary-and thus the desire for a distinct reset.

9mmepiphany
11-23-2012, 10:21 AM
This is exactly the problem-on the M&P9, you CAN'T learn how far to release the trigger to reset it. You don't feel it period.
I don't doubt your experience that the reset was hard to detect, but since there is a physical displacement of metal as the action reengages, how is it possible not to feel something.

I'm not talking about learning the reset point during live fire, I'm talking about learning the reset in dry fire. It is like the bump drill, to find the sear release point, in reverse. Many folks don't think you can bump a 1911 trigger more than twice before it fires...with a little practice, you can bump, with increasing pressure, almost any trigger 4-5 times

When I first bought my M&P, not only was the reset very faint, but there was also a false reset. It was just a matter of learning the characteristics of the trigger, like any new gun.

m98
11-23-2012, 3:32 PM
Brand loyalty is unnecessary in firearm ownership. An open minded gun nut is a happy gun nut.


^^^this....Fanboys really suck

m98
11-23-2012, 3:40 PM
I think everything Smith makes is quality. that being said... there poly frames are trash. both models (sd and m&p) just feel really cheap in my hand compared to my Glocks.. Glock has been doing this over 20 yrs, Smith just needs some more time. by far they are better than the Springer XD...
bottom line get what you want to get (if you go to the private firearms sales here you will notice theres a lot of M&P for sale!!! wonder why??
good luck


So xd frames are cheap that's why Johnny Rowland contines to build 460rowland conversions for it and glocks and certain 1911's but yet drops sw mp's from the list becuz its poly frame Could not Stand up to the abusive 460 cartridge

missiontrails
11-23-2012, 3:53 PM
M&P grip felt better in my hand than any gun, 1911, CZ etc. I like the utilitarian toughness of the Glock, but I will eventually buy a M&P... but also keep the Glock.

ramathorn
11-23-2012, 4:20 PM
I've heard that those S&W's shoot nice. If you can afford it, get one.