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neomentat
07-27-2007, 10:38 PM
where are fully auto AK legal? I know it's legal in Arizona, is it legal in Texas? I might be moving there with in the next few years. Someone please let me in on what states allow ownership of fully automatic weapons, thanks.

shark92651
07-27-2007, 10:41 PM
I don't think the average John Q. Public can own a full auto in any state.

http://www.vtgunsmiths.com/arms/caniown.html

Then again, I may have no clue what I am talking about - is this true?

theseacow
07-27-2007, 10:44 PM
I don't think the average John Q. Public can own a full auto in any state.

Yes they can.

Texas and Arizona are both class 3 friendly states. Be prepared to spend some mega $ however...

shark92651
07-27-2007, 10:50 PM
Wow, it boggles the mind that CA is part of the same country as Texas.

theseacow
07-27-2007, 10:54 PM
here is a fairly complete list of what is legal and where:

http://www.westernfirearms.com/wfc/default?set=06

wilit
07-27-2007, 11:00 PM
In California, not going to happen. But a good majority of states allow NFA Class III firearms to be owned by average citizens. Do a google search on NFA Class III and you'll find a bunch of info. It's actually not that hard to obtain if you're an upstanding citizen. It just costs big $$$. The cheapest Class III FA you're going to find is a Mac 10 which usually run about $3k. M16's generally run in the $10k to $15k range depending on the manufacturer. I've seen AK's for $6k to $7k.

Josh3239
07-27-2007, 11:00 PM
I decided a while ago that I am transfering schools to Oregon. Oregon has no state restrictions on firearms, the firearms laws they use is the federal governments :cool:

SemiAutoSam
07-27-2007, 11:06 PM
I hate to correct.

The SOT (Special Occupational Taxpayer) dealer is called a 03 and this is the only thing that is called class 03.

The weapons IE NFA (National Firearms Act) are called TITLE II weapons.

And you are correct the last time I looked at the list it was about 35 out of 50 states that dont forbid the registration of a Title II weapon to a individual living in those 35 states.

In California, not going to happen. But a good majority of states allow NFA Class III firearms to be owned by average citizens. Do a Google search on NFA Class III and you'll find a bunch of info. It's actually not that hard to obtain if you're an upstanding citizen. It just costs big $$$. The cheapest Class III FA you're going to find is a Mac 10 which usually run about $3k. M16's generally run in the $10k to $15k range depending on the manufacturer. I've seen AK's for $6k to $7k.

Jicko
07-27-2007, 11:11 PM
Another troll?

Full Auto AK -> MG.... heavily regulated federally.... and big bucks...

If you REALLY want to shoot and have FA weapons, join the military, be a LEO and try to get into SWAT.... join Blackwater (oh... that includes being military first)...

Or... go to Iraq and be an insurgent....*sigh*

Stuka
07-27-2007, 11:24 PM
I have a friend whom owned a Thompson Sub Machine Gun which was full auto. But it required a special permit which cost a ton of money. He ended up selling it because of the year fees. Granted this was many years back.

M. Sage
07-27-2007, 11:30 PM
What yearly fees? I think the tax stamp is length of ownership.

wilit
07-27-2007, 11:31 PM
I hate to correct.

The SOT (Special Occupational Taxpayer) dealer is called a 03 and this is the only thing that is called class 03.

The weapons IE NFA (National Firearms Act) are called TITLE II weapons.


True, but the Class III thing has become such a common error in ID'ing FA firearms, you see it everywhere. So i just perpetuate the error. :D

SemiAutoSam
07-27-2007, 11:35 PM
A state issued permit may require yearly renewal.

As they dont want to give a MG owner to much control.

The $200.00 federal tax is good for as long as you own the weapon.

What yearly fees? I think the tax stamp is length of ownership.

Stuka
07-27-2007, 11:39 PM
Correct, this was a state issued permit, which required that it be reissued yearly.

ivanimal
07-28-2007, 12:00 AM
Another troll?

Full Auto AK -> MG.... heavily regulated federally.... and big bucks...

If you REALLY want to shoot and have FA weapons, join the military, be a LEO and try to get into SWAT.... join Blackwater (oh... that includes being military first)...

Or... go to Iraq and be an insurgent....*sigh*


Lighten up, it was a fair question.:mad:

Jicko
07-28-2007, 12:21 AM
Lighten up, it was a fair question.:mad:

Ok. I apologize.... I was a little cranky earlier... :p

ivanimal
07-28-2007, 12:30 AM
Ok. I apologize.... I was a little cranky earlier... :p

Thanks Jicko I knew it was an odd post.:D

Morales
07-28-2007, 1:12 AM
Now, I'm not trying to give any one any bad ideas... but couldn't you move to a Title II friendly state, and do a home build of a full auto rifle after completing the proper forms and registrations? I mean, aren't many of the parts kits that are around coming with full auto fire control groups? Its the receivers that don't take the parts right? Maybe I"m way off. But I mean, won't a Romy kit come with an auto trigger group? Couldn't you save that an build a full auto in some other state with a proper receiver?

bobfried
07-28-2007, 2:01 AM
Now, I'm not trying to give any one any bad ideas... but couldn't you move to a Title II friendly state, and do a home build of a full auto rifle after completing the proper forms and registrations? I mean, aren't many of the parts kits that are around coming with full auto fire control groups? Its the receivers that don't take the parts right? Maybe I"m way off. But I mean, won't a Romy kit come with an auto trigger group? Couldn't you save that an build a full auto in some other state with a proper receiver?

Of course you can, you can do it right here. Just be prepared to have your house knocked over by ATF and than spending the next several decades hugging Bubba.

The NFA of 1934, GCA of 1968 and the nail in the coffin FOPA of 1986 makes any manufacturing of fully automatic weapons for consumer strictly a no no. Any fully automatic weapon which can be bought by you and me (assuming the state allowed NFA weapons) must have been manufactured on or before the date which FOPA came into effect. Anything manufactured after are strictly dealer samples, law enforcement, military or some very specific company/individuals performing very specific jobs.

The reason an M16 lower (or even a LL) cost beacoup money isn't because it cost much to manufacture, its because there were only so many made before 1986 that can now be owned by civilian. It's a finite quantity and as simple economics show, supply stays the same, demand goes up, prices sky rockets.

Librarian
07-28-2007, 2:27 AM
The NFA of 1934, GCA of 1968 and the nail in the coffin FOPA of 1986 makes any manufacturing of fully automatic weapons for consumer strictly a no no. Any fully automatic weapon which can be bought by you and me (assuming the state allowed NFA weapons) must have been manufactured on or before the date which FOPA came into effect. Anything manufactured after are strictly dealer samples, law enforcement, military or some very specific company/individuals performing very specific jobs.
There is one tiny exception, of no use to anyone who lives outside the jurisdiction of U.S. District Court for the Central District of Illinois. It's the Rock Island Armory (http://www.constitution.org/2ll/court/fed/us_v_rock_island.htm) case - Rock Island Armory was charged with manufacturing "machineguns" in 1987 and 1988 in violation of the registration requirements of the National Firearms Act. In U. S. v. Rock Island Armory, Inc. (773 F. Supp. 117, C.D. Ill. 1991), the chief judge of the U.S. District Court for the Central District of Illinois dismissed those charges because the NFA sections upon which they were based were "without any constitutional basis." The judge noted that the Supreme Court had previously ruled that the NFA`s registration requirement was constitutional only because it was enacted for the purpose of facilitating the collection of tax revenue. Thus, he concluded, because the Hughes Amendment had been interpreted as prohibiting the possession of fully-automatic firearms manufactured after May 19, 1986, the NFA`s registration requirement no longer served its tax collection purpose. The judge said that since "Congress has no enumerated power to require registration of firearms," the constitutional basis for the NFA registration provision no longer existed. The government initiated an appeal of the decision, but later requested that the appeal be dismissed, thus the Rock Island decision stands. In U.S. v. Dalton (960 F.2d 121, 10th Cir. 1992), the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit adopted the Rock Island precedent.NRA (http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=130)

Just a curiosity, of course.

supersonic
07-28-2007, 5:23 AM
Another troll?

Full Auto AK -> MG.... heavily regulated federally.... and big bucks...

If you REALLY want to shoot and have FA weapons, join the military, be a LEO and try to get into SWAT.... join Blackwater (oh... that includes being military first)...

Or... go to Iraq and be an insurgent....*sigh*

LOL:smilielol5: Always w/ the very amusing suggestions..............."go to Iraq / be an American-Killer (insurgent)".........very amusing suggestion.

ljg17
07-28-2007, 6:34 AM
Another troll?

Full Auto AK -> MG.... heavily regulated federally.... and big bucks...

If you REALLY want to shoot and have FA weapons, join the military, be a LEO and try to get into SWAT.... join Blackwater (oh... that includes being military first)...

Or... go to Iraq and be an insurgent....*sigh*

You missed one, stay in California and produce movies that encourage and glorify illegal activities and violence with guns. Then you can have all of the machine guns you want.

ljg17
07-28-2007, 6:38 AM
There is one tiny exception, of no use to anyone who lives outside the jurisdiction of U.S. District Court for the Central District of Illinois. It's the Rock Island Armory (http://www.constitution.org/2ll/court/fed/us_v_rock_island.htm) case - NRA (http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=130)

Just a curiosity, of course.

What does that mean in plain english?

Blacktail 8541
07-28-2007, 8:18 AM
What that means in PLAIN english is that if you live in that jurisdiction you MAY get a get out of jail free pass. After spending a lot of money of course.

Beatone
07-28-2007, 8:21 AM
These guys are having fun. :D
http://www.livevideo.com/video/4C3E05DA78D94D7893D1F6B05FC00AB5/3-krinks-in-7-62x39.aspx?m_tkc=4890516
Oh, and turn up the sound for this one!

neomentat
07-28-2007, 8:41 AM
Of course you can, you can do it right here. Just be prepared to have your house knocked over by ATF and than spending the next several decades hugging Bubba.

The NFA of 1934, GCA of 1968 and the nail in the coffin FOPA of 1986 makes any manufacturing of fully automatic weapons for consumer strictly a no no. Any fully automatic weapon which can be bought by you and me (assuming the state allowed NFA weapons) must have been manufactured on or before the date which FOPA came into effect. Anything manufactured after are strictly dealer samples, law enforcement, military or some very specific company/individuals performing very specific jobs.

The reason an M16 lower (or even a LL) cost beacoup money isn't because it cost much to manufacture, its because there were only so many made before 1986 that can now be owned by civilian. It's a finite quantity and as simple economics show, supply stays the same, demand goes up, prices sky rockets.

Does that mean I can own a fully automatic Browning BAR???

Quiet
07-28-2007, 9:45 AM
Does that mean I can own a fully automatic Browning BAR???

Yes, as long as you live in a NFA friendly state and have lots of money.

Good luck finding a Browning BAR for under $30,000.


EDIT:
Price assessment was off by around $5-8k.

Stripped pre-86 Group Industries M-1918 BAR reciever selling for $22.8k. www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=92433

neomentat
07-28-2007, 9:50 AM
Yes, as long as you live in a NFA friendly state and have lots of money.

Good luck finding a Browning BAR for under $30,000.

that much? weren't they like 5k 10 years ago?

Quiet
07-28-2007, 10:01 AM
that much? weren't they like 5k 10 years ago?

Most likely because of supply/demand issues, transferable MGs have been doubling in value every 5-10 years.

Example, H&K auto sears were $5k a piece 10 years ago, they now go for $13-15k a piece.

Due to the current popularity of WW2 era weapons (most likely due to movies, tv shows and video games), almost all transferable WW2 era MGs have been inflated in price. Example, transferable Thompson M-1 now go for $15-30k a piece depending on condition. Compared to the 1980s, in which the same Thompson M-1 would be selling for $2-3k.

SemiAutoSam
07-28-2007, 10:41 AM
HK Transferable auto sear's were 500.00 10-12 years ago I purchased several and have the form 3 to back up this claim.

ever since May 19 1986 thanks to the help of the NRA the McClure Volkmer act came into play and placed a higher premium on all "Transferable" machine guns.




Most likely because of supply/demand issues, transferable MGs have been doubling in value every 5-10 years.

Example, H&K auto sears were $5k a piece 10 years ago, they now go for $13-15k a piece.

Due to the current popularity of WW2 era weapons (most likely due to movies, tv shows and video games), almost all transferable WW2 era MGs have been inflated in price. Example, transferable Thompson M-1 now go for $15-30k a piece depending on condition. Compared to the 1980s, in which the same Thompson M-1 would be selling for $2-3k.

Librarian
07-28-2007, 12:26 PM
What does that mean in plain english?
Blacktail is right, however, a bit more detail...

The case says, approximately:

Rock Island Armory manufactured some full auto weapons post 1986.

The government prosecuted.

The judge ruled for RIA, saying the NFA-1934 had been gutted by later law.

Government started to appeal, then dropped it.

THEREFORE, in the jurisdiction of that court, NFA is no longer applicable Federal law - if you can afford to litigate it.

BossHogg
07-28-2007, 11:55 PM
Does having a class 3 supercede the 922r laws on foreign AW's?

ffosty
07-29-2007, 3:22 AM
Shoot I got a whole box full of full auto AK's in my back yard, matter of fact there are 2 boxes with around 600 total weapons from SKS - Dragonovs - AK's PKM's just about anything you could thing of out there. BTW Joined the military, Been to Blackwater a few times oh ya im in Iraq too.

Don
ST-7
Al Asad Iraq

1norcalvarmintHunter
07-29-2007, 5:45 AM
how much for a dozen, shipped to my SFD? Street Firearms Dealer...:tt2:

ffosty
07-29-2007, 7:12 AM
how much for a dozen, shipped to my SFD? Street Firearms Dealer...:tt2:


Now thats funny. The price would be the net worth of a 28 year retirment times me leaving the Navy with no Honor. Humm im thinking you cant afford it. LOL

neomentat
07-29-2007, 9:50 AM
Now thats funny. The price would be the net worth of a 28 year retirment times me leaving the Navy with no Honor. Humm im thinking you cant afford it. LOL

not if you don't get caught :43: make a deal with your superiors to get them in on the profits and we can start an Iraqi guns for American Patriots program and all get rich. (what can be better to kill your enemies with their own guns lol)

nice pic btw, i've already wondered about the collectibility of rare guns in third world countries