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View Full Version : What ammo and where to get it


tom_92673
07-27-2007, 8:47 PM
I just got a Entreprise STG58, and I'm curious what ammo people would run through this and where to pick some up for a range day tomorrow.

thanks,
Tom

rg_1111@yahoo.com
07-27-2007, 8:59 PM
Surplus Ammo SA,Aussie,Yugo,Port,Hirt, Fals run on any . 308 ammo.
Or any cheap store bought ammo.
Don't shoot East Indain you might get a KA-Boom.

thedrickel
07-27-2007, 9:43 PM
You bought a FAL without researching the ammo situation? Good luck! 308 is a ***** right now.

aplinker
07-27-2007, 9:55 PM
You bought a FAL without researching the ammo situation? Good luck! 308 is a ***** right now.

That's like pointing out the cost of 92 to someone who bought a Corvette. :rolleyes:

He didn't ask about cost, he asked what would work.

Shane916
07-27-2007, 10:07 PM
That's like pointing out the cost of 92 to someone who bought a Corvette.

Be in big trouble since 99.9% of the gas stations in CA carry 91 and under :D

wilit
07-27-2007, 10:12 PM
Okay, here goes the .308 vs. 7.62x51 debate...

I was under the impression that if a rifle is chambered in 7.62x51, then you could only use 7.62 surplus because the headspace is different than .308. However if you have a .308 chambered rifle, you can use either .308 or 7.62.

thedrickel
07-27-2007, 10:15 PM
He didn't ask about cost, he asked what would work.


He can look on the side of the gun and read the little numbers that spell out ".308" and find out what would work if he is that clueless.

The said truth is that you are looking at 40-50c/rd for any kind of 7.62x51 these days. 70's OFV (Indian) is decent stuff, it's the late 90's OFV you want to avoid.

-hanko
07-27-2007, 10:26 PM
You bought a FAL without researching the ammo situation? Good luck! 308 is a ***** right now.
Rifles are a one-time investment, ammo purchases are ongoing. With ANY gun, if you shoot enough ammo to keep in practice, sooner or later you'll spend more on bullets than you did on the gun.

Are you recommending we stick with .22's and 9mm's;)

FAL's are designed to shoot military (read surplus) ammo with bullets around 150gr.

Welcome to last week's news.:sleeping:

-hanko

tom_92673
07-27-2007, 10:56 PM
Well, I should have been more specific. I know what's written on the side of the rifle. I was wondering if there are any shops that carry surplus ammo as I'm going to the range tomorrow. If anyone knows of anything I should specifically not run through the gun that would be helpful as well.

Just got an unexpected loaner and I don't want to damage it. If I can't get a reasonable answer here, I'll probably not fire it.

ocabj
07-27-2007, 11:27 PM
You bought a FAL without researching the ammo situation? Good luck! 308 is a ***** right now.

I never consider ammunition supply/prices when I buy a firearm. But of course, I handload.

aplinker
07-28-2007, 9:51 AM
Be in big trouble since 99.9% of the gas stations in CA carry 91 and under :D

:D Oh yeah... they cheaped out on us. There are a few stations around where I live that sell racing fuel... for only $10/gallon :eek:

I recently bought a bunch of SA for $50/bp of 140. That would be perfect. Aimsurplus had it.

TonyM
07-28-2007, 9:57 AM
Well, I should have been more specific. I know what's written on the side of the rifle. I was wondering if there are any shops that carry surplus ammo as I'm going to the range tomorrow.

What's your location?

rg_1111@yahoo.com
07-28-2007, 11:15 AM
My FAL works on Winchester and surplus. I guess im lucky on head space.
Try AIM for SA surplus.

tom_92673
07-28-2007, 7:41 PM
I'm in Southern California, South OC. I ran Winchester through it on the advice of the previous owner after getting back with him, and it ran fine. That is one heck of a fun rifle.

ar15barrels
07-28-2007, 7:47 PM
I was under the impression that if a rifle is chambered in 7.62x51, then you could only use 7.62 surplus because the headspace is different than .308. However if you have a .308 chambered rifle, you can use either .308 or 7.62.

I'm sorry that you are under that impression.
It's like, the other way around... ;)

Military rifles, be they 5.56 or 7.62x51 will generally have longer headspace dimensioned chambers.
This is done to ensure functioning in all matter of environments.

223's and 308's will typically follow SAAMI specs which don't allow as much room in the chamber.

So, a loose chamber can swallow shorter commercial spec ammo, or longer military ammo, but a commercial spec chamber MAY NOT also accept military length ammo if the ammo is longer than the length that the particular chamber/bolt will accept.

In most cases, the maximum cartridge headspace length is the same for the military and commercial versions of a cartridge, but out-of-spec "surplus" ammo does not always meet the specs.
That's one reason it gets "surplused" in the beginning.

Surplus ammo is just that, "Surplus".
The reason for it's being surplused is usually unknown.

-hanko
07-28-2007, 10:40 PM
I'm sorry that you are under that impression.
It's like, the other way around... ;)

Military rifles, be they 5.56 or 7.62x51 will generally have longer headspace dimensioned chambers.
This is done to ensure functioning in all matter of environments.

223's and 308's will typically follow SAAMI specs which don't allow as much room in the chamber.

So, a loose chamber can swallow shorter commercial spec ammo, or longer military ammo, but a commercial spec chamber MAY NOT also accept military length ammo if the ammo is longer than the length that the particular chamber/bolt will accept.

In most cases, the maximum cartridge headspace length is the same for the military and commercial versions of a cartridge, but out-of-spec "surplus" ammo does not always meet the specs.
That's one reason it gets "surplused" in the beginning.

Surplus ammo is just that, "Surplus".
The reason for it's being surplused is usually unknown.
No difference between SAAMI and NATO for cartridge dimensions...variation is in cutting the barrel chamber, with military chambers usually longer so they're easier to feed, especially when in bad need of cleaning.

SAAMI brass is usually thinner, especially near the case head. That, combined with the fact that SAAMI allows max pressure of 62Kpsi v. NATO at 50Kpsi, means it's generally not advisable to shoot a lot of .308 in a military semi-auto. Issue is compounded if the headspace is opened up a little to insure feeding anything in a combat situation.

Mouse guns are the exact opposite, military chambers are just fine with SAAMI .223 ammo; not a good idea to use a lot of NATO ammo in a .223 semi.

If you're stuck on using .308 in an FAL, it's a very good idea to know the gun's headspace dimension...the OP has 2 choices: Either find someone who knows how to check headspace on an FAL and determine if it will be safe to eat .308 ammo (notwithstanding the major difference in max pressure;)), or use NATO ammo exclusively.

Minimum NATO headspace is 1.630", SAAMI is 1.627"'; but OP has no idea if E'prise headspaced to the NATO dimension. (Knowing E'prise, they may have no idea either:D.) Ideal hs for a combat FAL seems to be around 1.632, but be aware that no-go and field gage specs can vary like hell. I'd definitely suggest OP sticks with surplus ammo.

As to why ammo is surplused...reasons vary: Ammo has passed its shelf life date, ammo is defective/out of spec dimensionally, or the country simply is overstocked in a particular caliber. Only real crappy surplus out there is Indian ammo from the -90's.

-hanko