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xBEEFEDGEx
11-16-2012, 10:45 PM
So I'm in the market to purchase a rifle solely for the purpose of hunting, I have other rifles in various common calibers, but I've got myself debating what caliber to get. After much debate, I'm pretty dead set on the Weatherby Vanguard 2, held one, love the trigger and everything else about it. I was originally thinking of the Ruger American, but after seeing various range reports on different calibers, I'm honestly not that impressed, and I'm a Ruger fan. I figure for $150 more, and a pound more, I can have the Weatherby.

So it all comes down to what caliber would be best for what I want to use it for. That being said, I do handload. Main species I would target with this rifle would be coyote, hog, and deer, with the possibility of elk. Thing is with the coyote, I would like as little pelt damage as possible, which would point me to the .243, minus elk. I recently started thinking about .270 win. I've second guessed myself over and over and it's time I posted 'What do you think?'

I know the .243 would be a great round for coyote, pig, and deer, but my problem is, I'm not familiar with anything rifle except .223, .30 carbine, 30-30, .308, .30-06, 8mm mauser, and 7.62x54r. I'm pretty new to hunting, just not to shooting.

Any advice/experience would be greatly appreciated!

Feel free to list other calibers as well!

xBEEFEDGEx
11-16-2012, 11:03 PM
Figured I should also add, never been coyote, deer, pig, or elk hunting before. Only rabbit and quail.

ScottB
11-17-2012, 6:50 AM
.243 would be fine for anything up to CA size deer. IMO, it would be inadequate for hogs and elk, particularly for an inexperienced or occassional hunter of those species. I like .30 calibers, so I would gravitate to a .30-06 for a big game rifle, but .308 or .270 will work fine. Other, smaller calibers that come to mind are .25-06, .257 Roberts, 6.5mm Swedish mauser and 7mm Mauser - all are steller rounds when used within their capabilities.

Stay with a common, non-magnum caliber (the last three I mentioned are widely available but becoming less so). Common calibers don't get big write ups in gun rags, but they are Inexpensive and easy to find the loads you need without reloading. Also easy to find used rifles and save some bucks.

lewdogg21
11-17-2012, 7:04 AM
Since you hand load there are endless calibers to choose from (Scott did a good rundown). Since you haven't done any of the ones you listed before I wouldn't use pelt damage as a primary concern. If you end up becoming a die hard yote hunter and want to use the pelts for something you can buy a yote specific rifle.

fastpowerstroker
11-17-2012, 7:59 AM
If you want a bigger caliber for deer and elk you can always load rounds with bullets with less expansion such as hornady amax or a match boat tail from Speer or sierra. I got to check the regs but I believe non game mammals do not require expanding rounds therefore less pelt damage.

Divernhunter
11-17-2012, 8:22 AM
Match bullets often come apart on game and are a very poor(wrong) choice for game.
If you are concerned about pelt damage a small caliber bullet is best. For big game a larger caliber bullet is better or needed. Thus 2 rifles are best. But you could handload FMJ bullets in a larger caliber and that would help reduce pelt damage. A 30 cal would be best as there are lots of FMJ bullets in different weights for the .308 dia cartridges. Using a hard expanding bullet would be another choice for the larger caliber cartridges.
A plain jane 308win or 30-06 would fit the bill and be able to take any animals you listed well. I will go out on a limb and say even a 300mag when downloaded alot would work for yotes and when loaded up to normal work on all others.
My 2 Cents

atakacorp
11-17-2012, 8:42 AM
.243,6.5X55SE will cover everything up to 600 LB,7mm Mag is good too,recoil is more thou
Tikka,Savage

Coyotegunner
11-17-2012, 10:45 AM
I have hunted for pelts alot in my life,using a 22 Mag.The new bullets,by say Hornady are flatter and faster than my old standby Winchester lead tips.I kill a few coyotes these days with larger rifles,due to not having a easy access to selling the pelts.Also half of the pelts here in my part of the desert are not that good.I shot a medium(maybe 28Lb) coyote on veterans day hitting it slightly angled to me,with a 243 90 grain bullet.It blew the entire a** out of it.A 22 Mag will not do that.I live in the desert,where shots come sometimes at great distance.Over 150 yds the 22 mag will not cut it.
Whats up with your 308 and 30-06.I reload 110 gr hollow points for mine.Yea they are short.Mild recoil,report and with some messing around,I found good accuracy.They jack up coyotes like the 243 did.I load 165 gr bonded bullets for elk and deer in both of them.
Sounds like you have the bug to get a new caliber and rifle.
I am a 300 Win Mag,and 300 Rem Ultra Mag fan.No tracking on coyotes for sure.
For a handloader the 25-06 and 280 Remington are great for several species.In a short action,consider the 7mm-08.These 3 will be about like owning your 308 and 30-06

USMCM16A2
11-17-2012, 11:24 AM
Folks,


As a new hunter myself, for coyote I have a Rock River Arms A4 with an 18 inch bull barrel, stainless, that has been blasted to reduce shine. For deer sized prey, I switch uppers to the Stag Model 7H in 6.8 SPC. The AR platform is incredible for being able to switch uppers, and calibers. A2

newglockster
11-17-2012, 11:33 AM
Weatherby Vanguard is awesome!

xBEEFEDGEx
11-17-2012, 10:22 PM
.243 would be fine for anything up to CA size deer. IMO, it would be inadequate for hogs and elk, particularly for an inexperienced or occassional hunter of those species. I like .30 calibers, so I would gravitate to a .30-06 for a big game rifle, but .308 or .270 will work fine. Other, smaller calibers that come to mind are .25-06, .257 Roberts, 6.5mm Swedish mauser and 7mm Mauser - all are steller rounds when used within their capabilities.

Stay with a common, non-magnum caliber (the last three I mentioned are widely available but becoming less so). Common calibers don't get big write ups in gun rags, but they are Inexpensive and easy to find the loads you need without reloading. Also easy to find used rifles and save some bucks.

Sound advice. Exactly what I was hoping for. Plus it gives me a reason to get a caliber I already have. Did a bit of reading about 30-06 on another forum for coyotes. As long as you use bonded bullets on coyote (hornady 165gr interbond), and you don't hit bone, 30cal entrance, half dollar exit.

Since you hand load there are endless calibers to choose from (Scott did a good rundown). Since you haven't done any of the ones you listed before I wouldn't use pelt damage as a primary concern. If you end up becoming a die hard yote hunter and want to use the pelts for something you can buy a yote specific rifle.

You can never have too many firearms. I have an AR in 223 that I can use if I really wanted to, A2 bushmaster upper 20" barrel, I just need a scope, and the want to use it. Ideally I'd want to put a new receiver on it, and gas block, but I enjoy iron sights, my only AR.

If you want a bigger caliber for deer and elk you can always load rounds with bullets with less expansion such as hornady amax or a match boat tail from Speer or sierra. I got to check the regs but I believe non game mammals do not require expanding rounds therefore less pelt damage.

I do believe you're correct.

Match bullets often come apart on game and are a very poor(wrong) choice for game.
If you are concerned about pelt damage a small caliber bullet is best. For big game a larger caliber bullet is better or needed. Thus 2 rifles are best. But you could handload FMJ bullets in a larger caliber and that would help reduce pelt damage. A 30 cal would be best as there are lots of FMJ bullets in different weights for the .308 dia cartridges. Using a hard expanding bullet would be another choice for the larger caliber cartridges.
A plain jane 308win or 30-06 would fit the bill and be able to take any animals you listed well. I will go out on a limb and say even a 300mag when downloaded alot would work for yotes and when loaded up to normal work on all others.
My 2 Cents

Exactly what I'm planning on for the hard expanding bullet.

I have hunted for pelts alot in my life,using a 22 Mag.The new bullets,by say Hornady are flatter and faster than my old standby Winchester lead tips.I kill a few coyotes these days with larger rifles,due to not having a easy access to selling the pelts.Also half of the pelts here in my part of the desert are not that good.I shot a medium(maybe 28Lb) coyote on veterans day hitting it slightly angled to me,with a 243 90 grain bullet.It blew the entire a** out of it.A 22 Mag will not do that.I live in the desert,where shots come sometimes at great distance.Over 150 yds the 22 mag will not cut it.
Whats up with your 308 and 30-06.I reload 110 gr hollow points for mine.Yea they are short.Mild recoil,report and with some messing around,I found good accuracy.They jack up coyotes like the 243 did.I load 165 gr bonded bullets for elk and deer in both of them.
Sounds like you have the bug to get a new caliber and rifle.
I am a 300 Win Mag,and 300 Rem Ultra Mag fan.No tracking on coyotes for sure.
For a handloader the 25-06 and 280 Remington are great for several species.In a short action,consider the 7mm-08.These 3 will be about like owning your 308 and 30-06

I've been wanting to get a 22 mag for a while now. I have an old AMT automag 2 in 22mag, naturally, it's in pieces at the moment, waiting for repair, but thats all the experience I have in 22 mag. I know Hornady makes some pretty brutal expanding 22 mags. Just need a rifle!

As far as my 308 and 30-06 go, standard M1A and M1 Garand. The M1A would be doable, without a scope, and a flush mag, just not ideal. Again I have an AR, its not ideal without some work either, unless I go with iron sights.

Folks,

As a new hunter myself, for coyote I have a Rock River Arms A4 with an 18 inch bull barrel, stainless, that has been blasted to reduce shine. For deer sized prey, I switch uppers to the Stag Model 7H in 6.8 SPC. The AR platform is incredible for being able to switch uppers, and calibers. A2

Thought about 2 uppers, especially in 6.8, hell of a round. But for some reason, I'm just not a fan of the AR platform for hunting. I have no idea why. I know that's a terrible thing to say on Calguns. That being said, when target shooting, even plinking, I prefer my M1A to my AR 98% of the time.

Weatherby Vanguard is awesome!

My thoughts exactly!

So much so, I ended up buying one today, in 30-06. Turners has them in their winter flyer (PRICES ARE CURRENT, except on the front page. Those DO start Nov. 23rd).

Also picked up a Redfield Revolution 3-9x40, for the price, its pretty impressive!

Just wanted to say thanks for everyone's advice! You all definitely sold me on worst case scenario, more guns. :D

MJB
11-18-2012, 7:33 AM
If you live in so cal the coats on the yotes is normally not worth saving.....you'll see more mange than good coats.
I use Barnes varmint grenade in my 204.....It's really about the bullet not the caliber when it comes to yotes.

With the guns you have I would use them first and start from there. If you've never hunted the gun is the least thing to worrie about. The number one thing to learn is animal behavior before you can pull your gun out to shoot. And every animal you listed will have different behavior.

Good luck

Horton Fenty
11-18-2012, 8:48 AM
Everyone else has already given great advise for picking a caliber. It sounds like you've already narrowed down your model selection but for a hunting rifle I'd try and be mindful of all the other things besides caliber. Depending on where and how you'll be hunting weight and length could be huge considerations. If you going to be playing billy goat light is good, and short is even better.

NytWolf
11-18-2012, 9:55 AM
If you like the Weatherby Vanguard, you should also look at the Howa 1500. It's basically the same thing, only less $$$.

Shoot-it
11-18-2012, 12:30 PM
Tikka t-3 light is something to look into they are nice.223 ,22-250,243 are great coyote cartridges.Even the 208 and 270 have 110 gr vmax loads that might work for you since you hand load.

Emdawg
11-18-2012, 3:42 PM
Never seen anything in this state that my 25-06 or 7mm Mauser (both are Remington 700) could not bring down.

kakinuma-kun
11-18-2012, 6:08 PM
Congratulations on your purchase.

You can load up or load down a .30-'06, and you will never regret buying one, especially as a starting point for hunting.

knightstalker83
11-18-2012, 6:40 PM
7 mag and your set

ScottB
11-18-2012, 7:22 PM
OP, That's a great set-up that will serve you well. If you need to load up for elk, look at the Hornady Superformance loads (used to be called Light Magnum). They will get you to within about 15% of .300 WinMag ballistics with little increase in felt recoil and their Interbond bullets have always performed well for me.

Bull Elk
11-25-2012, 2:26 PM
Figured I should also add, never been coyote, deer, pig, or elk hunting before. Only rabbit and quail.

Thats a pretty wide range of animal. Based on your criteria, I'd think about a 25.06 or 7mm-08.

Deja-Vu
11-25-2012, 6:54 PM
For a 1 caliber that is not a mag? then go 25-06 you can load down to a 75gr for varmint, or up to 100gr Barnes at 3300fps that's 1823fps at 600 yards for long range. I don't recommend it but I have read that at closers range people are taking down bull elk with that setup.

ADAM
11-25-2012, 7:32 PM
260 rem best of both worlds,1/8 twist 140gr Berger and your done,I think Tikka and Sako make one.

wjc
11-26-2012, 8:38 PM
I've killed coyote and deer with 30-06 using Hornandy Superformance 150 Gr GMX.

No complaints yet.

:43:

John Browning
11-27-2012, 7:26 AM
You reload, so here is what I use to cover it all.

Cooper 52 Jackson Excaliber in .280 Remington. Better ballistics out of the same weight bullet as a .30-06. Works for everything except the big bears given how accurate it is and the excellent bullets available to handloaders. The rifle can ding a 6in plate at 300 yards in a full value wind every time.

Remington Model 7 in .260 Remington. Little recoil, light weight and perfectly capable of just about any reasonable hunting shot in California. I would be happy to use it on anything up to large Mule Deer.

If you are dead set on elk, the .270 might be just a little light in the bullet department. A .280 gets you bullets just a tad heavier.

180ls1
11-27-2012, 9:55 AM
OP i would get a savage in 25-06 it will do great on the California animals and if the time comes to hunt elk your a 30-06 barrel swap away from having a great elk gun.

If you like the Weatherby Vanguard, you should also look at the Howa 1500. It's basically the same thing, only less $$$.

Very true. Also for reference i have killed many cows and Bull elk with my .270 it hits them plenty hard.