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View Full Version : M&P 15-22 why no bullet button


mxadam579
11-12-2012, 5:45 PM
So just curious why dosnt a m&p 15-22 have to have a bullet button but is limited to 10rd mags in california can we run 25rd mags in it

Kelster1574
11-12-2012, 5:50 PM
My understanding is NO, we are limited to 10 round capacity here in California unless you owned them prior to the ban.....since the 15-22 didn't come out until much, much later.......I wouldn't take the chance on that one. Just my .02

NickMc
11-12-2012, 5:55 PM
Rimfire is exempt from some of the silly laws. I like the M&P 15-22.
I wish there were magazines that held the 10-rounds and were sized appropriately.
The standard magazines just "rub-it-in" that we are not allowed more.
Those things look like they could hold 100 rounds if staggered some way.

mycrstuff
11-12-2012, 5:55 PM
California's assault weapon law only applies to guns that use center fire ammo. Rim fire is exempt but the 10 round mag rule still applies.

GuitarsCarsnGuns
11-12-2012, 5:57 PM
Rimfires are exempt from the California AWB, but California magazine laws still apply.

Intimid8tor
11-12-2012, 5:59 PM
Rimfire is exempt from some of the silly laws. I like the M&P 15-22.
I wish there were magazines that held the 10-rounds and were sized appropriately.
The standard magazines just "rub-it-in" that we are not allowed more.
Those things look like they could hold 100 rounds if staggered some way.

They do make shorties.

NickMc
11-12-2012, 7:30 PM
They do make shorties.

They do? :shock:

Oooh! M&P15-22 just moved way up the list!

Javi
11-12-2012, 7:34 PM
They do? :shock:

Oooh! M&P15-22 just moved way up the list!

:)

http://store.huronvalleyguns.com/images/products/detail/MGSW19924_1.jpg

ham
11-12-2012, 7:47 PM
10 round rule applies unless its a fixed tube, i.e. the Henry lever rifles.

NickMc
11-15-2012, 3:44 PM
10 round rule applies unless its a fixed tube.

I got my wife a Browning BL22 for her birthday.
It can take .22 shorts.
Twenty-Two of them!
pew-pew-pew-pew...

timmytoast916
11-15-2012, 4:06 PM
I got my wife a Browning BL22 for her birthday.
It can take .22 shorts.
Twenty-Two of them!
pew-pew-pew-pew...

Same here. I have an old .22 that's a bolt-action, tube-fed rifle capable of using .22 short, .22 long, and .22lr. It holds well over 10. That's the reason I'll never get rid of it.

JNunez23
11-15-2012, 4:12 PM
Cause it's a .22, with 10 rounds.

Javi
11-15-2012, 4:25 PM
I got my wife a Browning BL22 for her birthday.
It can take .22 shorts.
Twenty-Two of them!
pew-pew-pew-pew...

A little taste of freedom right there :)

sergismaximus
11-15-2012, 5:07 PM
so wait AWB still applies to guns like the VEPR that shoot 7.62x54r right?

skyblue
11-15-2012, 5:40 PM
so if i wanted to build an AR platform, i wouldn't need a BB as long as it has a .22 upper?

RuskieShooter
11-15-2012, 6:13 PM
so if i wanted to build an AR platform, i wouldn't need a BB as long as it has a .22 upper?

I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but here is what I have picked up lurking:

1) An AR with a dedicated .22lr upper is good with no bullet button.

2) An AR with a "conversion kit" may be questionable as it is still technically a .223/5.56 upper and can be converted back.

3) A lower with no upper specifically marked as .223 or 5.56 (marked "multi-caliber" is ok) may be an issue.

Before I get flamed for 2 and 3, let me explain that there is no verification that these are illegal and, in fact, probably are not. However, do you have the time and money to be a possible test case?

I decided to bypass the whole thing and bought an M&P 15-22.

-Ruskie

delta9
11-15-2012, 6:13 PM
so if i wanted to build an AR platform, i wouldn't need a BB as long as it has a .22 upper?


No, it's still considered to be a centerfire rifle

MXRider
11-15-2012, 6:17 PM
No, it's still considered to be a centerfire rifle

Does it fire a centerfire cartridge in its current configuration? If the answer is no and it fires a rimfire cartridge, then a bullet button is not needed. What the lower says is completely irrelevant.

Consult the flowchart.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

LMTluvr
11-15-2012, 6:26 PM
No, it's still considered to be a centerfire rifle

Sure about that:) ?

skyblue
11-15-2012, 7:29 PM
yeah, got a nice 10/22 for plinking but also want a tacticool .22, so i've been toying with the idea of building an AR lower and purchasing a dedicated upper when finances permit next year. nice to also have the option of converting it to a centerfire SHTF rifle down the road..

fmunk
11-15-2012, 8:10 PM
I think the problem with making your own .22LR AR is the markings on your lower. If it's marked anything other than .22LR it can still be considered a centerfire rifle.

JackRydden224
11-15-2012, 8:16 PM
I think the problem with making your own .22LR AR is the markings on your lower. If it's marked anything other than .22LR it can still be considered a centerfire rifle.

I don't think so. Your dedicated AR-22 cannot shoot centerfire cartridge so why would it be considered a centerfire? You logic is flawed because the markings on your lower does not determine the caliber of the rifle. What your rifle actually shoots determines that.

joker70
11-15-2012, 11:00 PM
When the lower just says "multi" that could mean anything other than caliber... multi- dimensional, multi-level marketing, multi-faceted ;)

NorCalDustin
11-15-2012, 11:29 PM
I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but here is what I have picked up lurking:

1) An AR with a dedicated .22lr upper is good with no bullet button.
Any RIMFIRE RIFLE is exempt.. Caliber is not as important as it being rimfire...


2) An AR with a "conversion kit" may be questionable as it is still technically a .223/5.56 upper and can be converted back.
Bwise has warned about possible issues in the past...


3) A lower with no upper specifically marked as .223 or 5.56 (marked "multi-caliber" is ok) may be an issue.
That is absolutely not the case... For example, a complete lower with NO UPPER attached does not need a bullet button. You need a bullet button if you attach a CENTERFIRE upper to it.

The upper being marked has nothing to do with anything... Thats like saying a dedicated upper that runs and is chambered for .22LR is questionable because its not marked. How is it questionable?

Markings on Uppers / Lowers are not important... Now, there is an argument when factory markings is valid... But its for magazine caliber/capacity and NOT related to what upper/lower you have... Even that only apply's to cases like running 30rds of .223 in a 10rd .50 Beowulf mag...


2 out of 3 is close...

RuskieShooter
11-16-2012, 10:54 PM
Any RIMFIRE RIFLE is exempt.. Caliber is not as important as it being rimfire...

This is correct. Also (as I was corrected on) its not so much that rimfire is exempt, its that the law specifies centerfire and makes no mention of rimfire. A subtle difference, but a difference none the less.

Bwise has warned about possible issues in the past...

Some others have speculated on it as well.

That is absolutely not the case... For example, a complete lower with NO UPPER attached does not need a bullet button. You need a bullet button if you attach a CENTERFIRE upper to it.

The upper being marked has nothing to do with anything... Thats like saying a dedicated upper that runs and is chambered for .22LR is questionable because its not marked. How is it questionable?

Markings on Uppers / Lowers are not important... Now, there is an argument when factory markings is valid... But its for magazine caliber/capacity and NOT related to what upper/lower you have... Even that only apply's to cases like running 30rds of .223 in a 10rd .50 Beowulf mag...

As I stated above, its probably not illegal, but do you want to be the test case? I get paranoid living in Santa Clara county (not very gun friendly). If I were going to run a dedicated upper, I would always make sure the two were attached when transporting to avoid any questions/confusion from LE.

2 out of 3 is close...

I try.

-Ruskie

NorCalDustin
11-17-2012, 12:17 AM
As I stated above, its probably not illegal, but do you want to be the test case? I get paranoid living in Santa Clara county (not very gun friendly). If I were going to run a dedicated upper, I would always make sure the two were attached when transporting to avoid any questions/confusion from LE.
Or like saying that its probably not illegal for me to buy a used G19 barrel or slide and use it in my gun... because the barrel has a serial number on it that would differ from whats on my actual gun.

Of course its not!

donw
11-17-2012, 8:22 AM
Rimfires are exempt from the California AWB, but California magazine laws still apply.

rimfire semi-auto pistols are covered under the AWB in certain cases; no threaded barrels or forward mounted, vertical, pistol grips, etc

donw
11-17-2012, 8:33 AM
I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but here is what I have picked up lurking:

1) An AR with a dedicated .22lr upper is good with no bullet button.

2) An AR with a "conversion kit" may be questionable as it is still technically a .223/5.56 upper and can be converted back.

3) A lower with no upper specifically marked as .223 or 5.56 (marked "multi-caliber" is ok) may be an issue.

Before I get flamed for 2 and 3, let me explain that there is no verification that these are illegal and, in fact, probably are not. However, do you have the time and money to be a possible test case?

I decided to bypass the whole thing and bought an M&P 15-22.

-Ruskie

i purchased a new, dedicated, 22lr, MSR (AKA- 'AR' ) the ST-22, from Spikes tactical thru Faith Armory's FFL with NO BB...the lowers are marked "22lr"

when installing CF uppers...BB IS required and the 10 rd mag capacity IS applicable...

peterabbits
11-17-2012, 8:36 AM
rimfire semi-auto pistols are covered under the AWB in certain cases; no threaded barrels or forward mounted, vertical, pistol grips, etc

Threaded barrels are ok as long as they don't have a detachable magazine. Also of note is you cannot have a detachable mag outside the grip.

donw
11-17-2012, 8:41 AM
Threaded barrels are ok as long as they don't have a detachable magazine. Also of note is you cannot have a detachable mag outside the grip.

i stand corrected...

RuskieShooter
11-18-2012, 11:31 AM
Or like saying that its probably not illegal for me to buy a used G19 barrel or slide and use it in my gun... because the barrel has a serial number on it that would differ from whats on my actual gun.

Of course its not!

You are misunderstanding what I'm saying. Am I saying its illegal? No. Will an uninformed LEO hassle you and possibly make you jump through a bunch of hoops? Possible.

Like I said, if you want to risk being the test case; feel free. You will probably win in the long run and get a payday out of it. I'm of the mindset that I want to give LE as few reasons to hassle/dig into my business/detain me and I don't feel like spending my time on being the test case.

YMMV.

-Ruskie

Grumpyoldretiredcop
11-18-2012, 12:37 PM
I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but here is what I have picked up lurking:

1) An AR with a dedicated .22lr upper is good with no bullet button.

2) An AR with a "conversion kit" may be questionable as it is still technically a .223/5.56 upper and can be converted back.

3) A lower with no upper specifically marked as .223 or 5.56 (marked "multi-caliber" is ok) may be an issue.

Before I get flamed for 2 and 3, let me explain that there is no verification that these are illegal and, in fact, probably are not. However, do you have the time and money to be a possible test case?

I decided to bypass the whole thing and bought an M&P 15-22.

-Ruskie

There are some holes in your "lurking gained" knowledge. You may need further study regarding what is and isn't a "centerfire rifle" as described in the relevant Penal Code. Not a flame, just a piece of free advice and worth what it costs. Even the slowest of my former colleagues can read a Penal Code and figure out what the prongs of a possible offense are. You may want to start your continued study there and learn exactly what the code prohibits. :D

RuskieShooter
11-18-2012, 1:43 PM
There are some holes in your "lurking gained" knowledge. You may need further study regarding what is and isn't a "centerfire rifle" as described in the relevant Penal Code.

Centerfire: Any metallic cartridge which is fired by a strike from a firing pin in the center of cartridge's head. A typical centerfire cartridge will contain a pocket formed in the center of its head, or base. A separate primer is inserted into that pocket during manufacture.

Rimfire: A metallic cartridge which contains priming compound within its rim, rather than in a separate primer. This compound is sort of sandwiched between two layers of brass around the rim, and when the firing pin strikes the cartridge rim, it rapidly compresses the priming compound.

I understand the difference. Please note that the relevant PCs don't exempt rimfire; they simply don't include them which in "legalese" is a noticeable difference.

Even the slowest of my former colleagues can read a Penal Code and figure out what the prongs of a possible offense are.

Which is why CGF and 2AF are pursuing legal action in various court cases stating that CA gun law is so convoluted that no one (not even LE) can understand them and various PDs are being sued for confiscating and arresting owners of legally configured ARs and AKs...

You may want to start your continued study there and learn exactly what the code prohibits. :D

I did read and understand the code, but as I stated the laws are convoluted and unclear in many regards which can lead to issues with LE (for right or wrong). I'm not a lawyer and don't want to be one; I was just passing on what I had read on these forums to someone who asked a question.

As I stated, if you want to be the test case to help clarify the f'd up laws in this state, be my guest. I choose not to and try to tailor my purchases/configurations to avoid issues down the road with over-zealous LEOs.

-Ruskie

Grumpyoldretiredcop
11-18-2012, 4:42 PM
I was just passing on what I had read on these forums to someone who asked a question.

As I stated, if you want to be the test case to help clarify the f'd up laws in this state, be my guest. I choose not to and try to tailor my purchases/configurations to avoid issues down the road with over-zealous LEOs.

-Ruskie

And your understanding was not correct. Stop spreading FUD.

RuskieShooter
11-18-2012, 5:16 PM
And your understanding was not correct. Stop spreading FUD.

I'm sorry if I'm spreading FUD. I re-read my posts and would appreciate it if you could point out my errors.

-Ruskie