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View Full Version : Discharging a firearm during a SHTF situation - ramifications?


SDM44
11-12-2012, 11:52 AM
Just wondering what are your views (not legal) on what could possibly happen if you decide to discharge your firearm during a real SHTF situation, like what a lot of hurricane Sandy victims are currently in without power or resources.

Let's say you're bugging in with your family, but your neighborhood is getting really bad with looters hitting lots of homes, and the police are pretty much non-existent. If you have to use your firearm to dis-suede looters or badguys away from your house (firing a warning shot before actually shooting/killing them), what are some ramifications that you might see?

Are you more worried about police eventually coming out and trying to disarm you? Or are you more worried about armed looters coming back in force, trying to overtake your home? Would you have instantly painted a target on your back as the guy who probably has supplies and he's holding out on them?

Dooligan
11-12-2012, 11:58 AM
What's a warning shot?

If it's serious enough to consider pulling the trigger, it will be on-target (hopefully).

VictorFranko
11-12-2012, 12:05 PM
What's a warning shot?

A "made for television" movie starring David Janssen, not something you do with your firearms.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fd/Warningshot.jpg/220px-Warningshot.jpg

kb58
11-12-2012, 12:05 PM
...Are you more worried about police eventually coming out and trying to disarm you? Or are you more worried about armed looters coming back in force, trying to overtake your home? Would you have instantly painted a target on your back as the guy who probably has supplies and he's holding out on them?
These will always be possibilities and that's the line we cross when the trigger is pulled. I can see that if someone in a home shoots someone (for whatever reason) several things could happen:
1. If it's a loner and no one saw you, it'll be on your conscience the rest of your life.
If it's a group:
1. The rest might run off and are never heard from again.
2. Relatives of the one killed return later and burn you out.
3. Relatives of the one killed later file charges against you.
4. They wait until you stick your head out - which you'll have to do eventually - shoot you, and take all your stuff.

Bottom line, it's one thing to be up against a loner, and something else entirely to be up against a group.

I'm not sure why you're asking; all are possible and no one can ever tell you that any one of these can or cannot happen.

Dooligan
11-12-2012, 12:10 PM
A "made for television" movie starring David Janssen

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTIxMzA4ODYxNV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTgwMTEzMQ@@._ V1._SY317_CR4,0,214,317_.jpg

(...but that's not important right now)

mt4design
11-12-2012, 12:42 PM
Your post made me think of the Korean shop keepers during the King riots.

How many rounds were exchanged?

How many actually hit their targets?

I don't want bullets flying around my neighborhood so I think it is imperative that in a true SHTF scenario when the police are absent and lawlessness comes to you and yours you should be aware of like minded individuals who are hunkered down and protecting theirs.

Always be mindful that stray bullets always end up somewhere.

Sometimes, I think it would be a good idea to become proficient with a cross bow.

But, if I have to use a firearm, I'm not going to fire a warning shot. I'm going to stop the threat with hopes that every round hits my intended target.

itisagoodname
11-12-2012, 1:06 PM
Your post made me think of the Korean shop keepers during the King riots.

How many rounds were exchanged?

How many actually hit their targets?

I don't want bullets flying around my neighborhood so I think it is imperative that in a true SHTF scenario when the police are absent and lawlessness comes to you and yours you should be aware of like minded individuals who are hunkered down and protecting theirs.

Always be mindful that stray bullets always end up somewhere.

Sometimes, I think it would be a good idea to become proficient with a cross bow.

But, if I have to use a firearm, I'm not going to fire a warning shot. I'm going to stop the threat with hopes that every round hits my intended target.

http://www.huntersfriend.com/products/archery/crossbows/images/pse_tac_15_jumbo.jpg

Dooligan
11-12-2012, 1:10 PM
Just a heads up, guys...(IIRC) arrows are designed to sever arteries, causing the target to bleed out.

I don't know if the situation you describe is the best application for arrows.

m98
11-12-2012, 1:25 PM
If ur alone i suggest no warning shots only shoot to kill if calls for. if u got a large group of heavily armed guys and ur presence does not deter them then same thing-shoot to kill. They arent afraid of ur group bcuz they got guns too and is determined to kill all of u for whatever u have

itisagoodname
11-12-2012, 1:26 PM
Just a heads up, guys...(IIRC) arrows are designed to sever arteries, causing the target to bleed out.

I don't know if the situation you describe is the best application for arrows.

Solution: HE tipped bolts... Incendiary would work too

Backcountry
11-12-2012, 1:28 PM
Warning shots are for people with poor training. Shoot to stop or don't shoot.

speedrrracer
11-12-2012, 1:56 PM
Weather doesn't matter -- the normal laws of the land apply. Follow them. Self defense is legal.

If there's martial law in a SHTF situation, you'll hear about it (assuming you're prepared to listen....how are the batteries in your radios?). Bets may be off at that point in certain regards.

winnre
11-12-2012, 1:57 PM
Do not use a gun to scare away a bad guy. That's brandishing, and you will go to jail for it.

Sunday
11-12-2012, 2:46 PM
Just a heads up, guys...(IIRC) arrows are designed to sever arteries, causing the target to bleed out.

I don't know if the situation you describe is the best application for arrows.
That is what bullets do!

bsg
11-12-2012, 4:25 PM
no brandishing or warning shots, regardless of situation.

CSACANNONEER
11-12-2012, 4:33 PM
What's a warning shot?



They typically happen when one has "buck fever", is just a bad shot or is a moron. I know that I've taken two bucks after giving them warning shots but, sometimes I'm just a nice guy who wants to give my food an extra chance.

Goop
11-12-2012, 5:01 PM
Be very very careful discharging firearms in certain cities. I remember a story in Miami where a woman got served a 10 year sentence for firing a warning shot at her abusive ex husband. Had she shot him in self defense she would have got nothing.

Moral of the story, no warning shots. Shoot to kill or don't shoot at all. That is why i'm a big fan of pepper spray. A good happy medium between no danger and extreme danger.

dustoff31
11-12-2012, 5:27 PM
Let's say you're bugging in with your family, but your neighborhood is getting really bad with looters hitting lots of homes, and the police are pretty much non-existent. If you have to use your firearm to dis-suede looters or badguys away from your house (firing a warning shot before actually shooting/killing them), what are some ramifications that you might see?


One possible ramification is that the badguys will laugh at you for firing a warning shot and then shoot you in the face.

chris
11-12-2012, 5:35 PM
http://www.huntersfriend.com/products/archery/crossbows/images/pse_tac_15_jumbo.jpg

me likey.

dieselpower
11-12-2012, 5:46 PM
well since it was mentioned and not shown... here it is...

4UYWmTQRqAo&oref

smle-man
11-12-2012, 6:15 PM
Unless it is truly the end of the world as we know it, sooner or later law and order will be re-established and actions taken will have to be justified. Make sure any deadly force is defensible in the courts.

nrgcruizer
11-12-2012, 6:28 PM
Are they in your home? Or are they just outside your home? Are they on your property? Or just passing by? Are they in your home and facing you? Or are their backs facing you? Are they brandishing any weapons? Are they shooting at you from the street?

I think you should be more specific.

FX-05 Xiuhcoatl
11-12-2012, 6:29 PM
Shot to kill, I wouldn't want them to know I have firearms in my house.

TheChief
11-12-2012, 6:33 PM
Looting...sucks.

But are you willing to go to jail for your 80" top of the line TV or Blue Ray player or laptop? What about your neighbors?

My thoughts are:

You use deadly force to protect lives, not property. I will brandish and butt stroke but will only shoot if I feel threatened.

Every situation is different so who knows. However, the above is what I intend to follow and will pass on to others.

My two cents

VictorFranko
11-12-2012, 7:09 PM
(...but that's not important right now)

(...you missed the point of the comment)

Doheny
11-12-2012, 7:40 PM
Looting...sucks.

But are you willing to go to jail for your 80" top of the line TV or Blue Ray player or laptop? What about your neighbors?

My thoughts are:

You use deadly force to protect lives, not property. I will brandish and butt stroke but will only shoot if I feel threatened.

Every situation is different so who knows. However, the above is what I intend to follow and will pass on to others.

My two cents

What he said.

You don't shoot people for a property crime. Laws don't go out the window just because of a natural disaster or riot.

Onetyme
11-12-2012, 8:01 PM
What he said.

You don't shoot people for a property crime. Laws don't go out the window just because of a natural disaster or riot.

Unless you are in Texas & have the police on the phone telling them you are going to shot the robbers. Then you'll get off Scott free.

kb58
11-12-2012, 8:16 PM
... Laws don't go out the window just because of a natural disaster or riot.
I truely think that after reading many threads on various survivalist forums, that's exactly what some hope for. That they're looking forward to the end of law and order (and accountability) so they can pull out their heavy hardware and go Rambo. Like was said, these people are likely to become the problem in a SHTF situation, not caring where their shots go, shooting indiscriminately, all in the name of "not taking chances." Who needs zombies when you have these clowns around?

I've never been more shocked to read in these forums, posts by people who claim that they'll take out ANYONE who crosses their property, regardless of reason... incredible. Retribution and personal vendetas will be swift against such people because being an army of one matters little if they've pissed off a mob. It's very easy to burn someone out of a house.

Bottom line, think long and hard before pulling that trigger, because you can't take it back once that line is crossed. And even if the battle is won, as law returns you can bet they better be able to justify their actions.

CSACANNONEER
11-13-2012, 5:57 AM
Unless it is truly the end of the world as we know it, sooner or later law and order will be re-established and actions taken will have to be justified. Make sure any deadly force is defensible in the courts.

Stop it! Logic and real life "what ifs" are irrelevant in this thread.

Roots78
11-13-2012, 12:24 PM
In any given survival SHTF situation, if I feel my life or a loved one's life is in mortal danger (survival is on the line) whether the intruders are there to literally kill you or just rob you of your life saving survival supplies (food, water, medicines, tools, not TV's, stereos and Computers) leaving you for dead to starve, I will shoot to kill. A verbal warning may be given and if not heeded action will be taken. Warning shots are pointless.

Lone_Gunman
11-17-2012, 12:01 PM
No warning shots. Shoot the closest or best armed one center mass, let that be a warning to the rest of them. Repeat as necessary.

cdtx2001
11-17-2012, 6:40 PM
What's a warning shot?

.

When I miss, that was a warning shot.

frigginchi
11-18-2012, 6:47 AM
Sometimes you gotta put what the potential looters are doing into context. Are they going around looting electronics or are they scavenging food, clothing or shelter for their little ones? Do you shoot the father that is trying to feed his family? We can prep until the cows come home. If the supplies that we have worked so hard to prep get wiped out in a disaster what do you do? You scavenge. Are you a looter that deserves to be shot?

Dutch3
11-18-2012, 2:03 PM
Thankfully, I live in an unincorporated area of a county where discharge of a firearm is not otherwise prohibited.

kb58
11-18-2012, 3:16 PM
Sometimes you gotta put what the potential looters are doing into context. Are they going around looting electronics or are they scavenging food, clothing or shelter for their little ones? Do you shoot the father that is trying to feed his family? We can prep until the cows come home. If the supplies that we have worked so hard to prep get wiped out in a disaster what do you do? You scavenge. Are you a looter that deserves to be shot?
You won't find many to discuss this as it goes against the fantasy that is SHTF. What's shocking are the posts from people claiming that they'll shoot ANYONE who's on their property, period. Just an incredible thing to say, and in print nontheless. The other thing that's never discussed is how if you enter a house looking for supplies, that's being resourceful and "doing what it takes to survive." However, if it's someone else, they deserve to be shot. Something of a disconnect on how the two are different...

rob86
11-18-2012, 3:29 PM
I read that when there is looting that the person who is the home owner has the right to shoot on his/her property because the owners life is threatened and that the person is a danger to them. Personally I would watch through the windows and if anyone came in the house they are a danger to me and my family and do them in. There is no defense on why a person is in another persons house while there is looting going on.

frigginchi
11-18-2012, 4:07 PM
So much for good samaritans searching for survivors.


I read that when there is looting that the person who is the home owner has the right to shoot on his/her property because the owners life is threatened and that the person is a danger to them. Personally I would watch through the windows and if anyone came in the house they are a danger to me and my family and do them in. There is no defense on why a person is in another persons house while there is looting going on.

Sunday
11-19-2012, 7:43 PM
There are laws defining how you can stop a threat to your life and I am sure in a SHTF event the law will still stand.

Sunday
11-20-2012, 4:02 PM
Shot to kill, I wouldn't want them to know I have firearms in my house. Actually you shoot to stop the threat and keep on shooting till the threat stops. You don't want to kill anybody.

the86d
12-12-2012, 4:16 AM
Time to put a picket fence around the front yard... with a locking gate.

cannon
12-15-2012, 1:39 PM
There are laws defining how you can stop a threat to your life and I am sure in a SHTF event the law will still stand.

^^There you have it.

Disasters are localized so keep your perspective folks. Other people who were not impacted will be judging your actions.

Cali-Glock
12-16-2012, 10:55 AM
Warning shots are for people with poor training. Shoot to stop or don't shoot.

This. Don't pull the trigger unless you have judged that it would be better to be in jail and alive than to be dead. If you pull the trigger you own that round: put it where it will stop an immediate threat to you and yours only.

OIFVet03
12-20-2012, 10:47 PM
I will do whatever I have to to defend myself and my family. They are my primary concern. I don't do warning shots. If you look threatening and you are on my property, you will be shot. Bottom line!

HDgasser
12-20-2012, 11:26 PM
I will do whatever I have to to defend myself and my family. They are my primary concern. I don't do warning shots. If you look threatening and you are on my property, you will be shot. Bottom line!

Amen.....

spy-d
12-27-2012, 4:06 PM
This happened a few years ago. A fellow saw someone breaking and stealing his truck in Sac, CA. The fellow was armed and shot the person making off with his landscaping truck and tools. Of course he was arested. BUT, was let go.
The big fight was, "Does the owner have the right to defend his property?"
Then the story stoped.... dead.
The results, as I understood, Was that the owner of the truck was protecting his Livelyhood (did I spell it right?) and not property.
Does anyone remember this on KFBK News radio?

On other note, My Uncle was a Superior Court Judge in Butte County (Judge L.B.V.)
And he told me, that someone comes into your house, and threatens you, you do have the right to shoot him. BUT make sure he is dead, and inside your house. It will be your word not the dead man's.

As for me, Killing someone is something I DO NOT WANT TO DO.

If I fired a shot... ANYWHERE, Everyone in ear shot will know that you are there and have somthing to hide. Food, Water, Sexy female and guns.

I would rather have someone think the place was already robbed and looted than going up a mod of hungery people.

Just my thoughts

rockD
01-02-2013, 2:32 AM
^^^
Gotta protect the sexy females. They can have everything else. Lol!

the86d
01-02-2013, 3:51 AM
good reading here. even though we in Ca do not have castle doctrine we do have castle law.

"California (California Penal Code 198.5 sets forth that unlawful, forcible entry into one's residence by someone not a member of the household creates the presumption that the resident held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury should he or she use deadly force against the intruder. This would make the homicide justifiable under CPC 197[1]. CALCRIM 506 gives the instruction, "A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger ... has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating." However, it also states that "[People v. Ceballos] specifically held that burglaries which 'do not reasonably create a fear of great bodily harm' are not sufficient 'cause for exaction of human life.'”)"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

kel-tec-innovations
01-02-2013, 5:09 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

Sooo.... yes you can and then you can't lol

kel-tec-innovations
01-02-2013, 5:09 AM
These will always be possibilities and that's the line we cross when the trigger is pulled. I can see that if someone in a home shoots someone (for whatever reason) several things could happen:
1. If it's a loner and no one saw you, it'll be on your conscience the rest of your life.
If it's a group:
1. The rest might run off and are never heard from again.
2. Relatives of the one killed return later and burn you out.
3. Relatives of the one killed later file charges against you.
4. They wait until you stick your head out - which you'll have to do eventually - shoot you, and take all your stuff.

Bottom line, it's one thing to be up against a loner, and something else entirely to be up against a group.

I'm not sure why you're asking; all are possible and no one can ever tell you that any one of these can or cannot happen.

How big is the group? jk

kb58
01-02-2013, 9:35 AM
How big is the group? jk

I'd say anything greater than two... if you manage to shot one you've either scared the others off or are now outnumbered by pissed-off people.

sickboy774
01-05-2013, 8:15 AM
Cliche but I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. There are so many scenarios and variables that you can never be 100 % sure. One thing I do know is that in '92, once the shop owners started brandishing, and yeah some fired shots, the mobs moved on to easier pickings.

cmlqrfafg
01-20-2013, 6:37 PM
Okay I spent all of 2012 as a Security contractor in Southren AFG. Sometime Warning shots were fired. We used AK-47, 9mm,Saiga-12/Vepr-12's.The shotgun's were used for Labor Disputes and secondary weapons.We would use the shotguns for warning shots when our Client would forget to pay the 600+ LN(LOCAL NATIONAL) workers for 3 months. Warning shots are for crowd control.IF IF in a SHTF you are presented with a TRUE Threat to you,famliy,or group I would shoot and shoot to kill.A warning shot would be no good if the badguy(s) threatens you,your family,group with weapons.Hopefully you are never put in that postion.It is a hard thing to draw down and shoot another human being.Really hard when then are shooting at you.It gets easier with time but the first is always hard/scary/stressful.