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View Full Version : Gun won't fire, upper and lower stuck together


Hoop
07-20-2007, 2:12 PM
Alright, I put the lower together, then tried to combine the two and it doesn't work. Gun won't fire and I cant get them apart again. What did I **** up?

Tweak338
07-20-2007, 2:15 PM
what do you mean by "I can't get them apart again" ?

Is the bolt carrier forward when you tried to seperate the lower and the upper?

grammaton76
07-20-2007, 2:16 PM
No idea. I would try lightly hammering out the pins holding the upper onto the lower. Whenever I build a lower up, I work the pins back and forth about 20 times before installing the upper. It gives the brass detents a chance to round down a little, and makes it easier to remove the upper at a later date.

You won't hurt anything by gently hammering the pins back out (as long as you go from the correct direction!) with a cloth or something to protect them.

Hoop
07-20-2007, 2:28 PM
Never mind, I figured it out. No buffer spring *duh*. Alright, now when I pull the charging handle back I can get an audible firing pin click, however I can't get the bolt to stay back when cocked. Is this normal?

Fjold
07-20-2007, 2:30 PM
Never mind, I figured it out. No buffer spring *duh*. Alright, now when I pull the charging handle back I can get an audible firing pin click, however I can't get the bolt to stay back when cocked. Is this normal?


It is if you don't have a magazine installed.

Tweak338
07-20-2007, 2:30 PM
can't get the bolt to stay back when cocked?
or do you mean the bolt wont hold open on an empty magazine?

PLINK
07-20-2007, 2:34 PM
The bolt catch/ release should be the only thing that holds the bolt back.

You can do this by placing in EMPTY mag in the magwell and then pull back on the charging handle. The bolt should stay back.

Or

With no mag, pull the charging handle back and keep it back, then push down on the bolt catch/ release.

Does this help?

Jicko
07-20-2007, 2:36 PM
Never mind, I figured it out. No buffer spring *duh*. Alright, now when I pull the charging handle back I can get an audible firing pin click, however I can't get the bolt to stay back when cocked. Is this normal?

"No buffer spring" <- that's exactly what I am planning to suggest, when I saw your original post...

"however I can't get the bolt to stay back when cocked" <- if you do not have an empty magazine, you would have to manually press the lower part of your bolt-catch.

Jicko
07-20-2007, 2:38 PM
I recommend that you go to the *tips* thread (in my signature)

And go thru these links:

> First of all, M16A2 Operator's Manual and AR15 Operation and Safety Instruction Manual (by Bushmaster)

> A 6min video by Cavalry Arms: Basic AR-15 Operations and Firearm Safety

> Important: AR15 Safety Function Check

The "Basic AR-15 Operations" video is a good watch!!

Hoop
07-20-2007, 2:39 PM
Got it figured out, thanks all. Next thing I'm gonna do is take it all apart and put in a better trigger, this stag is kinda heavy.

SemiAutoSam
07-20-2007, 2:41 PM
Just curious where do you have brass detents in your AR ?

No idea. I would try lightly hammering out the pins holding the upper onto the lower. Whenever I build a lower up, I work the pins back and forth about 20 times before installing the upper. It gives the brass detents a chance to round down a little, and makes it easier to remove the upper at a later date.

You won't hurt anything by gently hammering the pins back out (as long as you go from the correct direction!) with a cloth or something to protect them.

grammaton76
07-20-2007, 2:43 PM
Got it figured out, thanks all. Next thing I'm gonna do is take it all apart and put in a better trigger, this stag is kinda heavy.

Send a couple hundred rounds downrange first. The triggers do break in a lot more during the first hundred or two rounds, than they do throughout the rest of their service life.

-hanko
07-20-2007, 2:44 PM
Got it figured out, thanks all. Next thing I'm gonna do is take it all apart and put in a better trigger, this stag is kinda heavy.
No criticism intended...check some remedial reading on assembly and operation on arfcom. You really want to do a safety and function check (and double check;)) before you feed her any bullets.

Glad you figured out the problem.

-hanko

grammaton76
07-20-2007, 2:47 PM
Just curious where do you have brass detents in your AR ?

Forward and rear pivot pins. They're what stop the pivot pins at the 'in' and 'out' positions, and in the Stag LPK's at least, they're kinda pointy, which makes the pins hard to slide. They round off very quickly with use.

Basically, they're the little nubs you put in place at the end of the springs prior to installing the pivot pins. And the ones which folks keep launching and losing. That front one can be difficult. :)

SemiAutoSam
07-20-2007, 2:49 PM
OK I know what your talking about now.

I replaced mine with .075 stainless steel ball bearings. works better from my perspective .

Thanks for the info.

Forward and rear pivot pins. They're what stop the pivot pins at the 'in' and 'out' positions, and in the Stag LPK's at least, they're kinda pointy, which makes the pins hard to slide. They round off very quickly with use.

Basically, they're the little nubs you put in place at the end of the springs prior to installing the pivot pins. And the ones which folks keep launching and losing. That front one can be difficult. :)

Hoop
07-20-2007, 3:21 PM
OK I know what your talking about now.

I replaced mine with .075 stainless steel ball bearings. works better from my perspective .

Thanks for the info.

I may do that, also I plan on seeing if I can use small allen screws to put tension on those springs (the rear one at least, I think it was a threaded hole). That way it'll be easier to pull them when I reload & and when I take the stock off the little spring won't go flying down the hallway again.

arguy15
07-20-2007, 4:20 PM
Never mind, I figured it out. No buffer spring *duh*. Alright, now when I pull the charging handle back I can get an audible firing pin click, however I can't get the bolt to stay back when cocked. Is this normal?

I hate to say this, but I have forgot the buffer spring a few times. That is why that was the first thing I thought when I saw this thread.

Jicko
07-20-2007, 4:22 PM
I may do that, also I plan on seeing if I can use small allen screws to put tension on those springs (the rear one at least, I think it was a threaded hole). That way it'll be easier to pull them when I reload & and when I take the stock off the little spring won't go flying down the hallway again.

Take your upper off.... push that pin 100 times in and out first.... it will loosen in no time...

Don't reinvent the wheel, and don't try to solve something that isn't really a problem...

RAMCHARGER
07-20-2007, 4:27 PM
Try forgeting to reinstall your firing pin. OH whaat fun it is to remove your stock/buffertube to unjam that puppy. :) ..

wildcard
07-20-2007, 4:27 PM
The bolt catch/ release should be the only thing that holds the bolt back.

You can do this by placing in EMPTY mag in the magwell and then pull back on the charging handle. The bolt should stay back.

Or

With no mag, pull the charging handle back and keep it back, then push down on the bolt catch/ release.

Does this help?

I think you meant "pull back/ away" :)

shinigami
07-20-2007, 5:15 PM
Try forgeting to reinstall your firing pin. OH whaat fun it is to remove your stock/buffertube to unjam that puppy. :) ..


I've had this delightful experience myself :D

Hoop
07-20-2007, 6:17 PM
I've had this delightful experience myself :D

I'm trying to imagine some soldier in the field fuggering around with his gun and having one of the 2 dozen springs that are in the lower go flying off into space.

My personal favorite was the spring that holds the front disconnector thingamabob, that sucker was fun.

Jicko
07-20-2007, 6:40 PM
I'm trying to imagine some soldier in the field fuggering around with his gun and having one of the 2 dozen springs that are in the lower go flying off into space.

Regular soldier's field stripping, NO springs should be flying around!

I recommend a read of page 7-25 of the M16A2 Op Manual, TM9-1005-319-10 (http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/TM9-1005-319-10.pdf)

The ONLY spring that you may encounter is the "extractor spring", which should be attached to the "extractor".

NO field soldiers are supposed to dissemble the lower receiver, army armorers do that, if necessary.



My personal favorite was the spring that holds the front disconnector thingamabob, that sucker was fun.

What are you talking about? there should be NO SPRING in the front of the "disconnector". Are you *really* talking about the "disconnector" , or are you talking about the "pivot pin" and its "detent" & "spring"?

http://ar15.com/content/guides/assembly/lower/lowerKit.gif

Technical Ted
07-20-2007, 6:45 PM
I'm trying to imagine some soldier in the field fuggering around with his gun and having one of the 2 dozen springs that are in the lower go flying off into space.
When field stripping an AR15/M16 there is only one spring to be worried about, the extractor spring. That one is press fit into the extractor.

PLINK
07-20-2007, 9:19 PM
I think you meant "pull back/ away" :)

Either way works. I push down on the little nub that sticks out on the bolt catch, located below the roll pin.

tenpercentfirearms
07-20-2007, 9:28 PM
I think the only good use for the forward assist is to help you get the bolt back in place after getting exicted about finishing a build and forgetting the action spring and buffer. At least that is what I have heard. :o

Jicko
07-20-2007, 10:49 PM
I think the only good use for the forward assist is to help you get the bolt back in place after getting exicted about finishing a build and forgetting the action spring and buffer. At least that is what I have heard. :o

Isn't that the ONLY use for the "Forward Assist"??? :D

ar15barrels
07-21-2007, 2:37 AM
I think the only good use for the forward assist is to help you get the bolt back in place after getting exicted about finishing a build and forgetting the action spring and buffer.

:rofl2:

ivanimal
07-21-2007, 7:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiAutoSam View Post
Just curious where do you have brass detents in your AR ?

Forward and rear pivot pins. They're what stop the pivot pins at the 'in' and 'out' positions, and in the Stag LPK's at least, they're kinda pointy, which makes the pins hard to slide. They round off very quickly with use.

Basically, they're the little nubs you put in place at the end of the springs prior to installing the pivot pins. And the ones which folks keep launching and losing. That front one can be difficult. :)

Then why are all of mine magnetic?

grammaton76
07-21-2007, 7:48 PM
Then why are all of mine magnetic?

Weird - I was always told they were brass. What company did your LPK come from? I'm gonna be tempted now to go magnet-check the spare ones that came in one of my LPK's.

blacklisted
07-21-2007, 7:55 PM
Then why are all of mine magnetic?

Mine appear to be steel coated in brass.

Hoop
07-21-2007, 10:33 PM
Mine appear to be steel coated in brass.

Same here.

ar15barrels
07-22-2007, 1:25 AM
Weird - I was always told they were brass. What company did your LPK come from? I'm gonna be tempted now to go magnet-check the spare ones that came in one of my LPK's.

I think that detents are made of steel and cadmium plated for corrosion resistance.
That explains the gold coloring.