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BlackReef
07-19-2007, 4:29 PM
I'm sure I am about to make an obvious statement, but the whole point of a fixed mag is to eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector. This, I am ALL for. But if someone hypothetically is going to make a bad decision, and was going to go into a situation like that, do you really think they are going to have a fixed-mag rifle?

Example: Some idiot and his friends are going to rob a bank. Don't you think they would take the time to restore their rifles to detachable mag?

Just another example of how law-abiding citizens (CalGuns.net) must pay for foolish actions of criminals.

Oh well, I am just grateful that I am allowed to legally own AR's in Kalifornia. Even if they are fixed mag. Me and the girl will be in Arizona in a couple years anyway.

Jicko
07-19-2007, 4:31 PM
That's the reason why they want the mag fixing to be "perm"!!

Also, that's the reason why they want to ban "AR & AK" SERIES!!

bwiese
07-19-2007, 4:37 PM
I'm sure I am about to make an obvious statement, but the whole point of a fixed mag is to eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector. This, I am ALL for.

You are for this? So you are FOR gun control? For mag restrictions? For caliber restrictions?

I don't think you'll find much welcome here, then. Go join the friggin' Bradys or LCAV. Good riddance.

8200rpm
07-19-2007, 4:39 PM
the whole point of a fixed mag is to eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector. This, I am ALL for.

Why in the world would you be for this?????????????????????????

When they wrote a law restricting detachable mags, they thought it would eliminate the AR15 and other "non-sporting" rifles. They had no idea gunowners would bypass their efforts by referencing the SKS (fixed magazine removable w/ tool is not "detachable") principles and applying it to the AR15.

They never intended for you to have AR15's at all fixed mag or not. You have nothing to be grateful about.

rksimple
07-19-2007, 4:44 PM
but the whole point of a fixed mag is to eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector. This, I am ALL for.


Please tell me you're kidding...

BlackReef
07-19-2007, 4:44 PM
I am ALL FOR idiots, in a Combat Situation (Robbing a Bank/Hostage Situation/Standoff/etc) not being able to reload at a fast rate

"but the whole point of a fixed mag is to eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector. This, I am ALL for."

Why the hell would you want some strung out meth addict who is robbing Bank of America while holding 60+ people hostage to be reloading at a rapid pace while authorities are trying to neutralize.

Pay attention to detail.

rksimple
07-19-2007, 4:46 PM
I am ALL FOR idiots, in a Combat Situation (Robbing a Bank/Hostage Situation/Standoff/etc) not being able to reload at a fast rate

"but the whole point of a fixed mag is to eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector. This, I am ALL for."

Why the hell would you want some strung out meth addict who is robbing Bank of America while holding 60+ people hostage to be reloading at a rapid pace while authorities are trying to neutralize.

Pay attention to detail.

These laws also affect YOUR ability to do the same...

ETA: For that matter, why would you want the meth addict to have a gun in the first place? Lets just ban guns...WTF?

chickenfried
07-19-2007, 4:50 PM
You should choose your words more carefully. We are the civilan sector.

....

Pay attention to detail.

JOEKILLA
07-19-2007, 4:50 PM
I am ALL FOR idiots, in a Combat Situation (Robbing a Bank/Hostage Situation/Standoff/etc) not being able to reload at a fast rate

"but the whole point of a fixed mag is to eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector. This, I am ALL for."

Why the hell would you want some strung out meth addict who is robbing Bank of America while holding 60+ people hostage to be reloading at a rapid pace while authorities are trying to neutralize.

Pay attention to detail.

I don't think strung out meth addicts will take the time to go through calguns threads to have a CA compliant OLL.

He will get a fully auto rifle from somewhere, cheaper than our OLLs.

I hope you don't think that criminals follow the rules.

gimebakmybulits
07-19-2007, 4:50 PM
and what law would you propose to stop law breakers??(king$nake)


oh yeah, they don't care about laws.............sorry to seem like a jerk but your point is pointless.
Maybe chopping off their hands would be a better solution to the reloading issue

BlackReef
07-19-2007, 4:51 PM
You should choose your words more carefully. We are the civilan sector.

wow, just.....wow

BlackReef
07-19-2007, 4:53 PM
I don't think strung out meth addicts will take the time to go through calguns threads to have a CA compliant OLL.

He will get a fully auto rifle from somewhere, cheaper than our OLLs.

I hope you don't think that criminals follow the rules.

From post #1

"Just another example of how law-abiding citizens (CalGuns.net) must pay for foolish actions of criminals."

I'll go all night with this thread. I said nothing wrong, just a few idiots took what I said completely out of context and now they want to be e-tuff guys.

Bishop
07-19-2007, 4:57 PM
but the whole point of a fixed mag is to eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector
So, civilians shouldn't be allowed to quickly reload?

Just in case someone missed this; criminals break the law.

They're not going to go to turners and buy a bushmaster AR-15 with no open magwell. They're going to obtain a gun through illegal means, and they're going to use it to commit crimes. (hint: crimes are illegal)

Punishing everyone for something that someone might do is not how freedom works. Why don't we just chip cars to keep them from going over 65? The only people who will go over 65 are law-breakers! Why not ban knives? Criminals could stab people with them!

etc. etc. etc.

You really don't get it do you?

BlackReef
07-19-2007, 5:00 PM
You are for this? So you are FOR gun control? For mag restrictions? For caliber restrictions?

I don't think you'll find much welcome here, then. Go join the friggin' Bradys or LCAV. Good riddance.

**** YOU and the Brady campaign

chickenfried
07-19-2007, 5:00 PM
Humblest apologies for lacking clairvoyance. Which would have allowed me to understand that when you said
but the whole point of a fixed mag is to eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector. This, I am ALL for.
You actually meant
I am ALL FOR idiots, in a Combat Situation (Robbing a Bank/Hostage Situation/Standoff/etc) not being able to reload at a fast rate

again sincerest apologies you were obviously referring only to the bad people.

JOEKILLA
07-19-2007, 5:02 PM
**** YOU and the Brady campaign

Now this is WOW :eek:

Quick, somebody hand me some popcorn, this is going to be interesting. :rolleyes:

blacklisted
07-19-2007, 5:03 PM
This whole conflict could have been avoided had the original poster demonstrated 8th grade English composition skills (or simply explained the poor choice of words without hostility).

You can't expect the reader to know what you are thinking. :mad:

Some of us are so familiar with the various justifications made by some gun owners for the "assault weapons" ban that we can't help but notice the similarities in your post.

MrLogan
07-19-2007, 5:04 PM
ANY gun control measure is bad.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."--Thomas Jefferson

DJDace
07-19-2007, 5:09 PM
The point being in regards to "bad guys" is a freaking moot point anyways. Criminals don't obey the laws, that's why they are freaking criminals. Gun laws are pointless because criminals don't obey them. Gun laws don't make it any harder for criminals to get guns! It just makes it harder for law abiding citizens to have them.

ANY GUN CONTROL LAW IS A BAD LAW.

How hard is that to understand as a gun owner?! Bloody hell.

You just started TWO threads rejoicing over having built an AR-15 OLL. By YOUR logic, you shouldn't even have that AR-15, cause you would rather a strung out drug addict (this part was my favorite LOL DRUGZ!!) didn't even have an AR-15 in the first place!

Think first, then speak.

BlackReef
07-19-2007, 5:10 PM
**** this man. I'm getting all worked up on a stupid message board. Can't say thats happened before. But I think thats a bunch of BS that I'm taken out of context like that and an certain old, opinionated ******* tells ME to go to the Brady Campaign. The Brady's make me SICK, and for some old **** to tell me to go join (regardless of how long he has been on CalGuns) pisses me off to no end.

I'm gonna go out with the girl to a nice dinner or something, because it's immature on my part to get all pissed off at everyone, especially on a message board..

my apologies
catch you later...

-j

Scouter
07-19-2007, 5:13 PM
If you think that criminals get their guns legally YOU are the IDIOT.

TKM
07-19-2007, 6:02 PM
I'll go all night with this thread. I said nothing wrong, just a few idiots took what I said completely out of context and now they want to be e-tuff guys.





You said it, we read it.



e-dumb guy.

RobG
07-19-2007, 6:55 PM
eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector. This, I am ALL for. WOW!! First, gun control affects the LAW-ABIDING, not the law breakers.

Example: Some idiot and his friends are going to rob a bank. Don't you think they would take the time to restore their rifles to detachable mag?

Do you honestly think these criminals would buy an otherwise legal AR then reconfigure it to rob a bank:rolleyes:

**** YOU and the Brady campaign
We all know of whom you speak. Instead of **** YOU, you should be saying THANK YOU. If it wasn't for "him" you probably wouldn't own an OLL right now.

C.G.
07-19-2007, 6:58 PM
:lurk5: Ah, the simple life.:D

JOEKILLA
07-19-2007, 7:07 PM
I was lookin for that popcorn

tom_92673
07-19-2007, 7:16 PM
Guys, I'm nobody special, so I'm simply offering advice. King$snake is obviously a gun enthusiast. You can read it in his posts. He's all excited about his first black rifle. He made a point that perhaps on further reflection he might be showed isn't a great point. If we take the time to educate him calmly instead of backing him into a corner he might be able to logically see our (I say our, because I agree whole heartedly with the objections posted) argument and see how he is mistaken. If he is, as I'm guessing, younger than say 25 or 30, he's going to react as any young man does to aggression with aggression and miss the point of the argument. I'd hate to lose a regular contributor to the message board that brings me so much entertainment. Perhaps we could all calmly explain our points to him and he'd understand the degree of seriousness behind the points being made. He hasn't been involved in the fight as long as people like Bill, and doesn't understand the frustration that can be caused by a back handed comment that flys so directly in the face of hard work that's been done by many for so long. I've learned over reading the forums that there are certain members who's points should be read like the gospel, thus I'm ready to accept criticism from them if I mis speak. But this humility and patience has only been learned recently.(primarily because I've had to take so much sh*t from my wife and daughter) I'd say educate don't ostracize. Explain where he made a mistake calmly and not in attack mode and I"m sure he'd change his tune and thus not bring bad opinions to his friends and neighbors about the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Quiet
07-19-2007, 7:25 PM
:icon_bs:

:lurk5:

tom_92673
07-19-2007, 7:25 PM
Yeah, I was hoping people would forget about that part. It's kind of hard to unsay things. :) Just trying to cut the kid a break. I've said many stupid things in my day, and I've had to ask forgiveness like a man.

Upon further reflection screw it. It's more entertaining to see people yell at each other. Fire away.
:)

-hanko
07-19-2007, 7:28 PM
:lurk5: In before the egos really escalate...:43:

KS, you did build a very nice, classic rifle.

I'd submit that gun control conflicts directly w/ the 2nd amendment.

I agree that criminals don't follow the law, particularly weapons laws. As you pointed out, those who obey the law are screwed because of criminals' actions.

Gun control laws in CA are not there to reduce crime; they exist because politicians will whore any shooting incident and try to maximize their own publicity. It works that way not only in CA but pretty much anyplace else.

Empirically, weapons crimes decline in states with less restrictive gun laws.

Good idea to take a lady to dinner & come back here tomorrow, refreshed.;)...might be not too bad an idea for a few others who've posted to this thread

-hanko

Paratus et Vigilans
07-19-2007, 7:39 PM
Guys, I'm nobody special, so I'm simply offering advice. King$snake is obviously a gun enthusiast. You can read it in his posts. He's all excited about his first black rifle. He made a point that perhaps on further reflection he might be showed isn't a great point. If we take the time to educate him calmly instead of backing him into a corner he might be able to logically see our (I say our, because I agree whole heartedly with the objections posted) argument and see how he is mistaken. If he is, as I'm guessing, younger than say 25 or 30, he's going to react as any young man does to aggression with aggression and miss the point of the argument. I'd hate to lose a regular contributor to the message board that brings me so much entertainment. Perhaps we could all calmly explain our points to him and he'd understand the degree of seriousness behind the points being made. He hasn't been involved in the fight as long as people like Bill, and doesn't understand the frustration that can be caused by a back handed comment that flys so directly in the face of hard work that's been done by many for so long. I've learned over reading the forums that there are certain members who's points should be read like the gospel, thus I'm ready to accept criticism from them if I mis speak. But this humility and patience has only been learned recently.(primarily because I've had to take so much sh*t from my wife and daughter) I'd say educate don't ostracize. Explain where he made a mistake calmly and not in attack mode and I"m sure he'd change his tune and thus not bring bad opinions to his friends and neighbors about the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.


+1 on being the voice of reason.

Nobody wants to see a scumbag bad guy using an AR on a crime spree, because it's bad for the rifle's image, and bad for society. However, does anyone of reason really think that the fixed mag rules mean anything at all to the guy who's out to commit armed robery, or murder, or any number of other felonies? Not likely. Which means that the fixed mag rules are, as we all know, just plain stupid. As if someone couldn't rig up a MM grip on an AR and take it and a sack full of full 30 round mags on a shooting spree??? Honestly. Not taking a swipe here at King$nake, really - - but only the truly ignorant think the fixed mag rules have any effect whatsoever on crime and the use of guns in the commission of crimes.

The world needs to wake up and smell the coffee. There are, have always been, and will always be, ruthless or sick or unstable or just plain evil people out there, and life is dangerous. There is no completely safe, risk-free life available anywhere. Sometimes good and innocent people die tragically at the hands of the sick and/or bad guys. That's just a fact of life. You simply cannot legislate away the risks of living. There is a segment of our population who don't get this, and never will. They think evil killers are victims of society and can be fixed and turned loose again. They think Islamic terrorists can be negotiated with and will leave us alone when we get out of their rathole homelands. They think the government knows better than the people do how to live their lives. No fast food, no trans fats, no God, no personal responsibility for bad behavior.

Ugh. Sorry. Rant over. I have empty brass that needs reloaded. Later.

adamsreeftank
07-19-2007, 8:09 PM
ya but saying #### you and the brady camp to bwiese isn't very cool.

+ 1

There are a lot of new faces around here that don't understand how hard bweise worked and how much personal risk he (and others) took on so we could all purchase ARs and AKs.

They have no memory of the days when the DOJ was telling people the ban was comming in two weeks and most FFLs wouldn't touch an OLL because of the real fear of felony prosecution.

I advise the original poster to have a little more respect for the people who enabled him to buy the gun he likes to show off.

Stevil
07-19-2007, 8:11 PM
I think there must be something wrong with my vision did someone really equate Bill with the Brady Bunch? :eek:

DJDace
07-19-2007, 8:19 PM
I think there must be something wrong with my vision did someone really equate Bill with the Brady Bunch? :eek:

I think adamsreeftank summed it up rather well :)

USMCM16A2
07-19-2007, 8:21 PM
Kingsnake,


I agree with many of the others on this board, you said one thing and meant another. None of us want some #$%^&ing meth head to have the ability to put a 30 rounder into his OLL build. BUT this same $%^&ed up reasoning is what has killed AW possession in our state. The only difference is that our ******* legislators (who do not know **it about firearms), think well lets just legislate it out of exsistance.
They just think to themselves, "gunowners are a bunch of children who have to be looked after". You and I know the difference, but they do not.
Attacking Bill was uncalled for, he has been a force in this whole OLL situation. He has been both a source of information, and a source of calm when everyone was loading their pants every time the idiots at DOJ put up one of their hair brained memos. MY STERN ADVICE TO YOU IS PUT YOUR BRAIN IN GEAR BEFORE YOU PUT YOUR MOUTH IN MOTION. SABE!!!!. USMCM16A2

FatKatMatt
07-19-2007, 8:33 PM
It's abundantly clear that whether or not a magazine is legally required to be fixed or not is completely irrelevant to a criminal; they can just modify the rifle or buy a new one from a gangbanger on the street. If criminals gave two sh*ts about the law there would be a whole lot less of them in prison, wouldn't there?

High capacity magazines have been outlawed for some time here, but criminals continue to use them illegally. No amount of laws will stop this. Incarcerated criminals have gone on record saying that they don't care about gun laws, it doesn't stop them at all.

Even if the law required magazines to be fixed, and criminals actually cared, murders still would continue regardless. Charles Whitman proved he could do a lot of damage with a scoped Remington 700 (fixed mag, I might add) when he murdered twelve people from the University of Austin clocktower. The Tsuyama massacre in Japan was perpetrated with an old Japanese rifle and a pair of swords. Just recently a police officer was killed by a kid with an M1 Garand. It really doesn't matter whether a magazine is fixed or not, people are still going to get shot and killed.

The further we disarm ourselves the further the evil will grow in strength. Evil men should be feared, but what should be feared above all is the indifference of good men. If good men cannot defend themselves, how are we all to survive?

J

.223
07-19-2007, 8:38 PM
Gun laws aren't in place to prevent misuse of firearms, this much is painfully obvious. They're there to give LE a reason to take action when no other criminal activity is witnessed and/or to be added as another charge after the fact.

dfletcher
07-19-2007, 8:40 PM
I'm sure I am about to make an obvious statement, but the whole point of a fixed mag is to eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector. This, I am ALL for. But if someone hypothetically is going to make a bad decision, and was going to go into a situation like that, do you really think they are going to have a fixed-mag rifle?

Example: Some idiot and his friends are going to rob a bank. Don't you think they would take the time to restore their rifles to detachable mag?

Just another example of how law-abiding citizens (CalGuns.net) must pay for foolish actions of criminals.

Oh well, I am just grateful that I am allowed to legally own AR's in Kalifornia. Even if they are fixed mag. Me and the girl will be in Arizona in a couple years anyway.



King,

Now I just knew when I read the line "This, I am ALL for" that the 4 pages of thread were focused on that sentence. Can we get back to that remark specifically - do you support the fixed magazine restriction for law abiding citizens? Let's all dispense with talk of the meth heads, bank robbers & bad guys in general, I presume no one wants them roaming free never mind being armed. But for the average citizen who wants to buy an AR, a FAL or similar rifle, do you support the fixed mag restriction and if so why?

Are there other restrictions - no +10 capacity mags, the "safe handgun" roster, no flash hiders, 10 day waiting period - that you think are worthwhile or are you - as I gather from your other threads - in general opposed to gun restrictions?

As an aside, I don't think any of us should feel grateful that we can own some types of ARs (or similar semi autos) in fact quite the opposite - we should be indignant that the state is metering out our rights as they see fit. This is the really insidious nature of gun control - would anyone feel grateful that we can read only certain newspapers, or attend only certain churches or vote only for certain candidates? Not at all, so we should not feel grateful that we can own only certain types of firearms.

MudCamper
07-19-2007, 8:40 PM
The original poster clearly hasn't thought a lot about gun control before. He seems to just have started to stumble into the logic that, hey, criminals won't obey gun control. But it seems to me he felt so guilty about it he had to make the following apologetic statement. It might be hard for some people to come around, living probably surrounded by antis. I think everybody was way too hard on the guy. We should use logic to show people the truth, not bash on them and make them feel stupid and alienate them.

MudCamper
07-19-2007, 8:44 PM
Argument against magazine capacity bans, from Oleg Volt's questioner:

Criminals often gang up on a single victim. Shooting accurately under stress is often difficult and more than one shot may be required to stop each attacker.

If defending myself with a firearm, I would want the magazine to hold...

-one round
-six rounds
-ten rounds
-30 rounds

What's your choice?

Oswald2001
07-19-2007, 8:45 PM
I suspect the limited mag comment was calculated (conciously or unconciously) to generate just the type of hoopla that it has.


It's kinda like throwing a match into a pail of gasoline and then saying, "I don't understand what happened.". :D


Ah yes...inflammtory comments.

Such is life on the Internet.


Ah...what the heck...I'll have a go at it too.



SAY, DID YOU GUYS KNOW THAT A LOT OF SCIENTOLOGISTS HAVE ASSAULT RIFLES?

Are you guys, like, a bunch of Scientologists nuts as well as gun nuts?



:popcorn: :D

aplinker
07-19-2007, 9:14 PM
I think everyone needs to slow down on both sides of this.

From the numerous posts I've read of Kingsnake it's pretty clear he's moderately new to guns and the gun world. He's been inquisitive and nice. I'm betting he's in his early 20's. So, given that, maybe everyone here needs to step back and think that his statement is probably as much a product of the society we live in and the so-called logic of the gun control world.

His statement is exactly that which follows from the Bradys and gun control side of things: that gun control keeps criminals from doing bad things. This is what many, many people honestly believe.

So, instead of helping him understand why his statement was faulty and against the rights we assume he enjoys, we attack him and make him feel stupid.

How everyone treated KS... This is like a street corner evangelist spouting Bible verses, church-talk and telling someone how horrible they are, then thinking it will make sense to someone who's never been in a church.

If this is how someone who's clearly pro-guns and involved in this forum is treated, I think it really shows the lack of understanding of what this fight for gun rights is really about. If you're willing to dismiss someone like this, we're going to lose.

The 2nd Ammendment can only stand as long as a majority of our country believes in it. It doesn't matter how long it's been there, that it's a part of the original rights. If the majority believes it is imprudent, it will disappear.

adamsreeftank
07-19-2007, 9:17 PM
...
Ah...what the heck...I'll have a go at it too.

SAY, DID YOU GUYS KNOW THAT A LOT OF SCIENTOLOGISTS HAVE ASSAULT RIFLES?

...

NO COMMENT!

I don't want the real power behind the scenes to come down on me...

;)

akjunkie
07-19-2007, 9:34 PM
I'm sure I am about to make an obvious statement, but the whole point of a fixed mag is to eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector. This, I am ALL for. But if someone hypothetically is going to make a bad decision, and was going to go into a situation like that, do you really think they are going to have a fixed-mag rifle?

Example: Some idiot and his friends are going to rob a bank. Don't you think they would take the time to restore their rifles to detachable mag?

Just another example of how law-abiding citizens (CalGuns.net) must pay for foolish actions of criminals.

Oh well, I am just grateful that I am allowed to legally own AR's in Kalifornia. Even if they are fixed mag. Me and the girl will be in Arizona in a couple years anyway.


guess you Too young to remember the Rodney King Riots.

law abiding Citizens defending their Homes and Businesses with semi-auto, Hi cap, centerfire sporting rifles and pistols.

indeed, it was up to the "Citizen Militia" to defends their Rights, Property, and Lives when local PD wasnt available.

Mssr. Eleganté
07-19-2007, 9:43 PM
I don't think you'll find much welcome here, then. Go join the friggin' Bradys or LCAV. Good riddance.

Just for future reference, what would be an acceptable response to Bill's post? It's obvious now that "**** YOU and the Brady campaign" is not acceptable, so what are some better choices.

It's still possible that we misunderstood what KingSnake meant by "combat situation in the civilian sector". He obviously wishes he could have a fully functional AR, so it seems unlikely that he supports magazine restrictions. He might have just chosen his words poorly. Then when Bill immediately jump on him he went into defensive mode.

KingSnake may have only been thinking of police vs. badguy shootouts when he said "Combat situation in the civilian sector", not realizing that "combat situation in the civilian sector" could also mean a lawfull self defense situation.

Maybe he isn't a gungrabber.
Maybe he hasn't subconciously fallen prey to the liberal Hollywood anti-gun propoganda.
Maybe he should have chosen his words more carefully.
Maybe we should have waited for more clarification before telling him to join the Bradys and get lost.

But if KingSnake does support magazine restrictions for "civilians", then xxxx him! :p

tom_92673
07-19-2007, 9:50 PM
Hey I'm in favor of not jumping down anyone's throat until I know what they're talking about, but jumping on BWeise in this forum is like going into a Catholic church and saying F*** the Pope.

I'm not saying BWeise is the Pope, I mean he couldn't be, he lives in the arm pit of California and must have something wrong with him :).

The kid is a kid, and you don't knowingly or unknowingly poke a cornered dog with a stick. And that's what we are as gun owners and enthusiasts in CA.

M. Sage
07-19-2007, 10:07 PM
Wow... just.... wow.

Pistol grips and detachable mags on centerfire rifles are good, mmmkay?

Can't wait to get my detachable-mag build together. It's gonna be fun (even if it won't have a PG.)

oaklander
07-19-2007, 10:46 PM
Been waiting to use this new acronym I learned from M Sage:

IBTL

:D

fireblast713
07-19-2007, 10:58 PM
The point being in regards to "bad guys" is a freaking moot point anyways. Criminals don't obey the laws, that's why they are freaking criminals. Gun laws are pointless because criminals don't obey them. Gun laws don't make it any harder for criminals to get guns! It just makes it harder for law abiding citizens to have them.

ANY GUN CONTROL LAW IS A BAD LAW.

How hard is that to understand as a gun owner?! Bloody hell.

You just started TWO threads rejoicing over having built an AR-15 OLL. By YOUR logic, you shouldn't even have that AR-15, cause you would rather a strung out drug addict (this part was my favorite LOL DRUGZ!!) didn't even have an AR-15 in the first place!

Think first, then speak.

Dude... I totally agree.

FinweElensar
07-19-2007, 11:26 PM
**** YOU and the Brady campaign

Bwiese will be long remembered for his efforts fighting for our gun rights, along with Hoffmang and the others...

You on the other hand will be remembered for that comment. I hope you won't need help from him down the road.

WokMaster1
07-20-2007, 7:23 AM
i agree with hanko

Oh come on! I just made all these popcorn......:p

caduckgunner
07-20-2007, 8:26 AM
:lurk5:

luvtolean
07-20-2007, 8:28 AM
:(

Another all-to-scarce pro-gunner shunned by the community. Sucks.

No offense guys, but this thread shows the type of attitudes that I think kill gun rights more than anything. Gun people just don't seem to know how to be nice when they should try it.

The first time I read this quote, from Shane McGowan of the Pogues, in the booklet from The Clash/The Singles, I thought of this board:

It (the Clash song White Riot) was also a piss-take of how pathetic white people are at standing up for their rights and having fun, whereas black people know how to do both. Both the Clash and The Pistols were masters of being completely decadent, and they made decadent fun.

In politics, and gun rights, I would substitute "conservatives and libertarians" for "white people" and "liberals and democrats" for "black people".

DJDace
07-20-2007, 11:58 AM
:(

Another all-to-scarce pro-gunner shunned by the community. Sucks.



I don't want to go too much farther down this path, but what exactly do you expect to happen when inflammatory statements are made on a pro-gun message board? Especially when the same author attacks people who made sacrifices to ensure that person even has some of the rights they take advantage of?

Anyways, what's done is done. If any lesson can be learned from this, it is to proof read your damn posts and to think twice about the things you say on boards like this. This is a public and open forum, and once your blurt out your opinion for the world to see, expect a reaction of SOME type.

How this is surprising is beyond me.

[Edit] -Oh and p.s. there is a huge difference between SHUNNED and CHASTISED. I have serious doubts that many people here have ever truly experienced what it is like to be shunned by a whole community of people.

GunOwner
07-20-2007, 12:49 PM
Who thinks the meth addict or crazy or bank robber is going to install a bullet button and/or use low capacity mags? They are going to use whatever high powered stuff they can get regardless of legality of the weapon UNLESS (maybe) we tie penalty to weapon PLUS Activity (bank robbing) then MAYBE the laws start to make sense. So its not owning a particular weapon that is the problem it is like everything else WHAT DO YOU DO WITH IT. Far and away the number one violent crime that results in loss of innocent life in this country is drunk driving wrecks. Is our response to outlaw cars - NO - our proper response is to outlaw drinking (the bad activity) while using the car (the object) - same basic principle should apply to guns. We have all been saying this for years it is so simple and rational it is very frustrating when people don't get it. I guess it is because the Brady folks have a car - they like their car - don't take away what they like. One final point - law abiding citizens with guns thwart THOUSANDS of crimes a year - yet ANOTHER reason for people to be able to have and carry weapons - can the same be said for the blessed car? Maybe if we could get a gun made by Ford - fueled by diesel we could get the right forces working for good.

jumbopanda
07-20-2007, 1:00 PM
Let's just lock this thread. All of this pointless arguing over a misunderstood poorly worded statement has just got to stop. I'm sure Kingsnake doesn't support gun control, and since he's here and has shown that he likes guns, I think we can give him the benefit of the doubt. Granted, the "**** you" comment was unnecessary though.

xenophobe
07-20-2007, 1:43 PM
I'm sure Kingsnake doesn't support gun control,

Yes, it was pretty clear that he said he agreed with it.

But I agree with you, this meltdown of a trainwreck should be locked...

WokMaster1
07-20-2007, 2:47 PM
:(

Another all-to-scarce pro-gunner shunned by the community. Sucks.

No offense guys, but this thread shows the type of attitudes that I think kill gun rights more than anything. Gun people just don't seem to know how to be nice when they should try it.

The first time I read this quote, from Shane McGowan of the Pogues, in the booklet from The Clash/The Singles, I thought of this board:



In politics, and gun rights, I would substitute "conservatives and libertarians" for "white people" and "liberals and democrats" for "black people".

I've got an idea. Wanna go over to an anti gun forum & declare that gun control does not work. Oooh! :D

theseacow
07-20-2007, 2:59 PM
I don't support the lock. This thread is too lol to just let it die.

xrMike
07-20-2007, 3:04 PM
I don't support the lock. This thread is too lol to just let it die.Is it lol enough to qualify as lmaonade?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/xrMike/misc/lmaonade.gif

anotherted
07-20-2007, 4:35 PM
Zumbo

Technical Ted
07-20-2007, 4:54 PM
Zumbo
Exactly.

I wonder if King$nake even knows the Jim Zumbo story?

pnkssbtz
07-20-2007, 4:57 PM
Last I checked, killing people, rape, arson, extortion, child abuse, robbery and assault were all illegal.

Guess what kind of people are doing those things?


If the intent was to STOP a criminal from being able to make convenient reloads in the middle of a gun fight, then that is physically to legislate.

A law prohibiting is not going to stop them, any more than a law prohibiting robbing a bank will stop a bank robber from robbing a bank.

All a law will do is allow a guideline for which said robber can be judged and criminally penalized.

Therefor legislating away some action, that will not hinder criminals (thats why they are "criminals"). It will only affect the remaining populace; the law abiding citizen.


What the OP is suggesting is akin to castrating every Man in the state so that we do not rape women. Or banning all vehicles with more than 25 horse power so that we do not race and cause injuries. Or banning wallets so we cannot have our wallets pick pocketed.

It is absurd, and pointless and ONLY penalizes the law abiding citizen.


So while the INTENT was to hinder criminals, the actual results are far from that which was desired. NEVER EVER EVER target the law abiding citizen and legislate against them to combat actions against criminals, as that is the quickest way to destroy this country and everything it stands for.


To quote a novel by Terry Goodkind:

"Wizard's Second Rule: The greatest harm can result from the best intentions."


And of course, the man himself, Mr. Benjamin Franklin:

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

chickenfried
07-20-2007, 5:01 PM
SWEEET!!!! I love those books.


To quote a novel by Terry Goodkind:

"Wizard's Second Rule: The greatest harm can result from the best intentions."

Fate
07-20-2007, 5:17 PM
And just so this thread will be easy to find later: krinker plinker :innocent:

Super_tactical
07-20-2007, 5:33 PM
**** YOU and the Brady campaign

Do you know who you are talking to son?

pnkssbtz
07-20-2007, 5:34 PM
And just so this thread will be easy to find later: krinker plinker :innocent:

Did someone say KRINKER PLINKER? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=31653)

M. Sage
07-20-2007, 5:47 PM
To quote a novel by Terry Goodkind:

"Wizard's Second Rule: The greatest harm can result from the best intentions."

Awesome books, and the Wizard's First Rule applies very well to gun control, too. "Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true."

I love the way Goodkind looks at the world. I agree with the view he presents in his books whole-heartedly.

Some more to share:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard%27s_Rule

donger
07-20-2007, 5:48 PM
Rodney King:

"Can't we just all get along?"

Seriously though how about some common courteousy?

SemiAutoSam
07-20-2007, 5:49 PM
HMMM ok.

Rodney King:

"Can't we just all get along?"

Seriously though how about some common courtesy?

ghost
07-20-2007, 5:52 PM
You are for this? So you are FOR gun control? For mag restrictions? For caliber restrictions?

I don't think you'll find much welcome here, then. Go join the friggin' Bradys or LCAV. Good riddance.


i`m with bill on this one!

M. Sage
07-20-2007, 5:54 PM
Rodney King:

"Can't we just all get along?"

Seriously though how about some common courteousy?

Common courtesy is nice, but if someone actually advocates something like disallowing detachable mags for civilians, or magazine size restrictions, or suspension of any other right... well, I don't think I'm going to be terribly courteous about it. If someone with a "Brady Campaign" sticker needs to merge in traffic and I'm the one who's in a position to let them in? They're SOL.

I will say that I'd rather he was asked to explain WTH he meant by it before we all jumped on him...

There's this little "preview post" button down at the bottom of the window. When in doubt, click that instead of "Submit." I've aborted my share of posts because what I was trying to say wasn't coming out right.

boogak
07-20-2007, 5:57 PM
. If someone with a "Brady Campaign" sticker needs to merge in traffic and I'm the one who's in a position to let them in? They're SOL. quote:m.sage
hahaha i agree. im on the road all day. im on the lookout know.lol

SemiAutoSam
07-20-2007, 6:05 PM
Good point why would we want to be courteous to a person or entity that either is taking our rights away or has a desire to take our rights away.

I see no benefit in this.

-hanko
07-20-2007, 6:28 PM
Last I checked, killing people, rape, arson, extortion, child abuse, robbery and assault were all illegal.

Guess what kind of people are doing those things?


If the intent was to STOP a criminal from being able to make convenient reloads in the middle of a gun fight, then that is physically to legislate.

A law prohibiting is not going to stop them, any more than a law prohibiting robbing a bank will stop a bank robber from robbing a bank.

All a law will do is allow a guideline for which said robber can be judged and criminally penalized.

Therefor legislating away some action, that will not hinder criminals (thats why they are "criminals"). It will only affect the remaining populace; the law abiding citizen.


What the OP is suggesting is akin to castrating every Man in the state so that we do not rape women. Or banning all vehicles with more than 25 horse power so that we do not race and cause injuries. Or banning wallets so we cannot have our wallets pick pocketed.

It is absurd, and pointless and ONLY penalizes the law abiding citizen.

So while the INTENT was to hinder criminals, the actual results are far from that which was desired. NEVER EVER EVER target the law abiding citizen and legislate against them to combat actions against criminals, as that is the quickest way to destroy this country and everything it stands for.


:sleeping::beatdeadhorse5:
I looked for a "run-it-into-the-ground" smilie but we don't seem to have one;)

This thread should have gone to pm halfway down the first page. I'd tend to leave it to Bill and King$nake from this point on. If you're not part of the solution, that leaves you as part of the problem...obviously, that includes me with this post.

Have a nice weekend

-hanko

supersonic
07-20-2007, 7:09 PM
:popcorn::11::popcorn:

Socal858
07-20-2007, 7:25 PM
Let's just lock this thread. All of this pointless arguing over a misunderstood poorly worded statement has just got to stop. I'm sure Kingsnake doesn't support gun control, and since he's here and has shown that he likes guns, I think we can give him the benefit of the doubt. Granted, the "**** you" comment was unnecessary though.

i agree entirely



as a community we really seem to liek to eat our own. i dont agree with anything kingsnake said but as a community we will accomplish a lot more through diplomacy and explaining concepts, rather than yelling and name calling.

if a stranger came up to you and disagree are you gonna flip out and make an enemy or take the time to make your point and make a friend out of him/her?

id like to think we arent as reduced to silliness as arfcom is with the name calling

Wild Bill
07-20-2007, 8:12 PM
:sleeping::beatdeadhorse5:
I looked for a "run-it-into-the-ground" smilie but we don't seem to have one;)

This thread should have gone to pm halfway down the first page. I'd tend to leave it to Bill and King$nake from this point on. If you're not part of the solution, that leaves you as part of the problem...obviously, that includes me with this post.

Have a nice weekend

-hanko

I Agree !!!

:beatdeadhorse5:

TheMan
07-20-2007, 8:19 PM
Who thinks the meth addict or crazy or bank robber is going to install a bullet button and/or use low capacity mags?

Maybe no one has told them? Maybe we should consider reaching out to them, and showing them the bullet button, MMG, and 10 round mags? We could have a "Sponsor a meth head at the range" day?

Diablo
07-20-2007, 8:31 PM
This board is great!!!

Lets just try not to kick anyone out....I think we could all learn a litle from one another.

heyjak
07-20-2007, 9:01 PM
This Kingsnake guy just backed up his truck and DUMPED on all of us! Whether I agree with him or not, this is the kind of dialog that is NOT healthy for our cause! I'm not saying he should be censored, but he went way overboard in pushing his agenda and was rude in responding to those who took offense at his original post. Looks like he was backed into a corner with no way out other than to split for dinner! I think we can all read between the lines and say he is on our side, but his unfortunate choice of words got him into deep doo-doo! Cut him a break, but moderators please calm everybody down! Thank you!:D

jdberger
07-20-2007, 9:16 PM
Honestly, this thread was much more fun before everyone became rational.:sleeping:

and just checking....Bill, this is the first time anyone's told you to ufck off, isn't it?

Knight
07-20-2007, 9:21 PM
Some people really need to read this entire thread before they post.

Props to King$nake for recognizing where the thread was going and ducking out.

If he does feel the need to apologize to BWeise, he certainly doesn't need to do it publicly. It might be best to just http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/KnightForums/locked.gif this.

SemiAutoSam
07-20-2007, 9:33 PM
Not really I told him that once but then I cooled down. and forgave him for his indiscretions.


Bill, this is the first time anyone's told you to ufck off, isn't it?

Technical Ted
07-20-2007, 9:48 PM
91 posts in under 30 hours and not one has been from a mod.

Sometimes silence is a message in itself.

swhatb
07-20-2007, 9:55 PM
lets think before we write and write using the 7 p's. :p

glad KingSnake isn't a reporter :detective:

marxdspot
07-20-2007, 11:01 PM
:popcorn::popcorn::boxing_smiley::popcorn:

CalNRA
07-20-2007, 11:47 PM
:popcorn:

looks like Calgunners don't party much on a Friday night.

I had to be home for the mother's birthday. What's your excuse?

jdberger
07-20-2007, 11:51 PM
Working on an Opposition to a Statement of Undisputed Facts in Support of a Motion for Summary Judgment.

Getting a lot done, too.:rolleyes:

pnkssbtz
07-20-2007, 11:59 PM
If you're not part of the solution, that leaves you as part of the problem...obviously, that includes me with this post.

I'm told there's good money to be had being part of the problem... :p

wutzu
07-21-2007, 12:11 AM
I am ALL FOR idiots, in a Combat Situation (Robbing a Bank/Hostage Situation/Standoff/etc) not being able to reload at a fast rate

"but the whole point of a fixed mag is to eliminate fast-reloads in a combat situation in the civilian sector. This, I am ALL for."

Why the hell would you want some strung out meth addict who is robbing Bank of America while holding 60+ people hostage to be reloading at a rapid pace while authorities are trying to neutralize.

Pay attention to detail.

So this meth addict who isn't hampered by the laws against murder, armed robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, etc. will be unable to break a law limiting magazine capacity?

That makes perfect sense. Why didn't we see it earlier?

CalNRA
07-21-2007, 12:28 AM
Working on an Opposition to a Statement of Undisputed Facts in Support of a Motion for Summary Judgment.

Getting a lot done, too.:rolleyes:

don't sound too excited now.

you can always get your taxes started early...:p

marxdspot
07-21-2007, 12:46 AM
:popcorn:

looks like Calgunners don't party much on a Friday night.

I had to be home for the mother's birthday. What's your excuse?

Babysitting:banghead:

shawnyteee
07-21-2007, 1:01 AM
complain now.. you think our gun laws are tough? wait for the North American Union.

jdberger
07-21-2007, 1:23 AM
complain now.. you think our gun laws are tough? wait for the North American Union.



Deleted swearing

jumbopanda
07-21-2007, 1:32 AM
100+ posts in this pointless thread...this is worse than Paris Hilton hysteria.

supersonic
07-21-2007, 5:11 AM
I'm just glad the heat's off me for making a joke about I.C. having a grudge over a FH being shoved in 'is booty, then questioning why it was censored. Whew!!!!! MODS, WAKE UP! I've seen just about every 4-letter word on this hy-LAR-ious thread, plus one of it's founding fathers was told to F-OFF! I, and I'm sure many others, would have been RAKED over the coals, then BANNED from site by mods.....W O W.......speaks VOLUMES, if not LIBRARIES. As far as the OP, I'm not going to comment, as I agree with a vast majority of those that have already spoken for me, and I think I'm done with the needless heat..........................
oH, sorry.....CARRY ON!!!!!!!!:popcorn::65::popcorn::smartass:
S.S.

Stormfeather
07-21-2007, 5:30 AM
wow. . . . really, all I can say. wow. . .

Let me play devils advocate here for a second. . . . .

Now, Ive been reading CGN for a pretty long time, and Ive been around the block once or twice. Im not saying im the most knowledgable guy here, but im pretty sure I can match wits with a couple of ya. I remember the Rodney King riots, I was there in the 4th humvee rolling up I-5 out of Pendleton when we got the call. Ive got a few bangsticks of my own, and I enjoy my pseudo cali-legal ar-15 thanks to the diligence of many folks here. I own many firearms, and I own quite a few that unfortunately for me, will more than likely never be allowed in this state. Hence they stay in my home state. I do Private Security Contracting overseas in Iraq as my bread and butter, so Ive heard my fair share of zips zings and cracks. I dont have as many posts as some of the folks here, but that doesnt mean that im not here reading as often as time allows me. That being said, allow me to please state whats on my mind.

I "think" I understand what Kingsnake meant, as my "interpretation" of it meaning that he was all for criminals not being able to do fast reloads because of a fixed 10 rd'er.
When someone experiences "a combat situation in the civilian sector" as law enforcement did when the North Hollywood Bank of America robbery happened, im sure those LEO's down there wish the criminals had fixed 10 rd'ers, would have saved them alot of grief and drama. Same goes when the mass shooting of kids took place in July 1984 at a San Ysidro McDonalds by violent anti-social firearms owner James Huberty, 41, who slaughtered 21 people and wounded 19 with an Uzi in what was then the worst attack the world had seen. Then in the mass school shooting in January 1989, hallucinating multiple felon Patrick Purdy opened fire at a Stockton, CA schoolyard with an AK-47, killing 5 kids and wounding 30. All of these are terrible instances, which if these guys would have had fixed 10 rd'ers, maybe could have been avoided. BUT we are in America, where we, the population, choose to ratify laws as the common standard which we all live by. Now, whether you do or dont like the rules, you have several options, . . . . .
1-follow them, sit down & shut up.
2-break them, and face the penalty.
3-change them, to your benefit.
Lets all look at what the OLL is, its nothing more than a loophole. Are we glad that people put the time, energy, effort in to research this loophole, and then took the risk to bring this to light, risking their business's (sp?) & possible personal freedom by maybe breaking the law, hell yes we are! But lets face it, its a loophole. If we spent as much passion trying to get the law changed as we did berating a young man for his misstep in how he presented something to us, which to him is a valid point, where are WE going wrong? As one poster very eloquently put it, and im going to plagarize him and missquote him im sure, Its our job as the "old schoolers" to teach the younger guys, mentor them, expand their horizons, open their minds to other ways of looking at things, especially when it comes to OUR gun rights. Are gun control laws bad, yes, we all know that. But then again, what are YOU, the reader doing to change them?

I hate to say this, but I will. Only out here in california do I see the lack of common sense & courtesy in the firearms community so prevelant. If a young man made that very same comment in Ohio where I personally am from, at a gunshop, I guarantee you at least one person standing behind the counter would ask him what he meant by it, then ask him to please justify his comment, listen to what he says, then then offer an opinion. They would explain how his statement was flawed and attempt to correct him. They sure wouldnt jump down his throat and berate him. They wouldnt call him a idiot, and they sure as hell wouldnt tell him to go join the Brady bunch. Was he wrong for being defensive, maybe yes, maybe no. Im not going to judge him, I saw a person who is enjoying his newly found freedoms express his joy and understanding as "he" understands it. Maybe he didnt know how to express it quite the way he should of. Then I saw people who have been around here for quite a long time belittle him, call him names, say he had lacked 8th grade composition skills, all sorts of stuff where it actually makes me ASHAMED to be part of this community. All of you people who have been here from the begining should be setting the standard for these newer guys, in every aspect. From who to send their business to as far as dros'ing and getting parts, how to build their OLL, to how to help try and get the laws changed. All youve probally succeeded in so far is putting a sour taste in one new firearms owners mouth. In the fight for your Second Amendment Rights, how many people have you offended and made into an anti-guns voter? I for one, applaud his decision to step back, quit being defensive, and apologize. So far as I can see, he made a mature choice. Now you people, as upstanding members of the firearms community should step up and act like a community. This young man deserves an apology from all of you. Especially the ones who yelled the loudest.

Dont flame this, im too old to get into a pissing contest over the internet and Ive got wayyy too much Benadryl coursing thru my veins right now. You cant do anything to me that hasnt already been done. You cant make me marry a ugly woman in a drunken fit in Reno, You cant shave my head, you cant make me join the Marines, and you sure as hell cant send me back to Iraq. Been there, Done that, Got the t-shirt/marriage certificate/scars to prove it.
Have a great day!
Bill Stormfeather

Army GI
07-21-2007, 6:10 AM
:popcorn:

looks like Calgunners don't party much on a Friday night.

I had to be home for the mother's birthday. What's your excuse?

Which leads us to our next two questions:

How many of you weigh over 200lbs?

How many of you are still virgins?

Sorry, couldn't help myself :43:

Stormfeather
07-21-2007, 6:38 AM
Which leads us to our next two questions:

How many of you weigh over 200lbs?

How many of you are still virgins?

Sorry, couldn't help myself :43:

Hey, I take offense to that remark!

http://www.chrisbyrne.com/Infidel/TeamInfidel1.jpg

My 4th cousin twice removed isnt fat. . . . . hes skinny, and he has all his teeth!

Actually, this is a photo of "Team My-Friend-Shot-A-Hole-In-My-Right-Foot!"


.

luvtolean
07-21-2007, 6:50 AM
wow. . . . really, all I can say. wow. . .

Let me play devils advocate here for a second. . . . .

Very well said. I was too annoyed to type it out myself. It's like everyone in Cali that owns a gun has a complex now.

re- Zumbo

Zumbo is a been there done that writer. He makes his living communicating to the public in words (and on the tube), so he's at least pretty good at getting his message across. He's made his living publicly communicating his message for a long time.

We have no idea what or who kingsnake is. But he's no pro, and shouldn't be held to the same standards as one.


NOW, if that "it's a shill account" stuff is real, thing Kingsnake knows where he should go...

shark92651
07-21-2007, 7:33 AM
I just got a PM from Bwiese that said KingSnake is likely a DOJ-affiliated shill poster and he is actually based somewhere in Europe.


This is ridiculous, can we stop this now? I sold king$nake most of the parts to build his rifle - starting with the bullet button and lower parts kit. I have his home address and phone number, both at his previous address where I shipped most of his parts and his new address where I shipped his upper about two months later.

I'll offer my take on this, since the multiple requests to lock this thread are being ignored. King$nake is a young man that is interested in owning firearms and excited about his first AR build. After people questioned whether or not he even had a fixed magazine build in his picture thread of his completed build he was already a bit defensive. He then started this thread asking about criminals using fixed mag rifles, which was a bit naive but hardly worth the response of telling him to go away and join the Brady's. Let's cut the guy a break and eductate him, not attack. Please, someone lock this thread so we can move on.

trashman
07-21-2007, 7:37 AM
Just read that the Senate Democrats have been up all night trying to get a cloture vote on this thread ;)

--Neill

supersonic
07-21-2007, 9:23 AM
Stormfeather,
I agree with essentially most of what you said. However, for some reason, the mods are choosing to do absolutely nothingabout what has transpired here. Maybe KS is one of their "buddies."(?):confused: Who knows on this forum. One thing Iknow about it is that, short of a major MASS attitude adjustment of alot of members on here (senior & moderators)-i.e.MIRACLE, the "flaming/character-bashing/F-U, I-know-more-than-you" crap is going to be here as long as this forum exists. And I'm not saying I'm clean of this either.(I am trying very hard, though, to get to that point!:)) It is very sad. I almost abandoned ship early on when I was flamed HARD for what reason I still can't comprehend. But I still get what I need here (SOMEtimes!), so I'm still sticking it out. That's really all I have right now to add(.02), but to add some levity: maybe if KS hadjust taken the damn tag off his FSB,he would maybe have thought before he spoke.;)(probably not one of my better ones, but I couldn't think of anything better @ the moment!)
Peace,
S.S.:43:

supersonic
07-21-2007, 9:26 AM
MODS:
PLEASE wake up & shut this thing down, for God's sake!
S.S.:43:

SemiAutoSam
07-21-2007, 9:40 AM
Talk about Zumbo he and Ted will be giving a concert down in Oroville one weekend coming up here soon.

Ted seems to be bringing Zumbo to all of his events like a Groupie.

If I get any decent pics Ill post them.






Very well said. I was too annoyed to type it out myself. It's like everyone in Cali that owns a gun has a complex now.

re- Zumbo

Zumbo is a been there done that writer. He makes his living communicating to the public in words (and on the tube), so he's at least pretty good at getting his message across. He's made his living publicly communicating his message for a long time..



The NAU isnt going away because you post this annoying pic.

Your Glorious leader has been planning this for a long time its not going to go away no matter how long you keep your head in the sand.

M. Sage
07-21-2007, 10:08 AM
wow. . . . really, all I can say. wow. . .

Let me play devils advocate here for a second. . . . .

Man, nice post. I agree that we should have asked him to defend and explain his position instead of jumping all over him. That would have been a discussion.

I'm still really interested to hear where he's coming from, but I'll admit it's mainly to make a counter-argument and help him get his mind straight. :p

This thread's not a total loss. At least some of us seem to be getting some stuff out there in the light where it needs to be.

Fate
07-21-2007, 10:25 AM
I enjoy my pseudo cali-legal ar-15 thanks to the diligence of many folks here.

Lets all look at what the OLL is, its nothing more than a loophole.

Are gun control laws bad, yes, we all know that. But then again, what are YOU, the reader doing to change them?


Are we glad that people put the time, energy, effort in to research this loophole, and then took the risk to bring this to light, risking their business's (sp?) & possible personal freedom by maybe breaking the law, hell yes we are! But lets face it, its a loophole.

Wow, there's so much in here I disagree with, Stormfeather, I don't know where to begin. "The OLL" as you call it isn't a loophole. It's the law. They are not "pseudo-legal" they are LEGAL. What are we the readers doing to change the gun control laws in CA? Um....look around. Plenty!

I hate to say this, but I will. Only out here in california do I see the lack of common sense & courtesy in the firearms community so prevelant. If a young man made that very same comment in Ohio where I personally am from, at a gunshop, I guarantee you at least one person standing behind the counter would ask him what he meant by it, then ask him to please justify his comment, listen to what he says, then then offer an opinion. They would explain how his statement was flawed and attempt to correct him. They sure wouldnt jump down his throat and berate him. They wouldnt call him a idiot, and they sure as hell wouldnt tell him to go join the Brady bunch.
Ha, ha, ha. You've never been on arf.com have you? Hell, even the local gunshop in Texas where I grew up would tear you a new one for being an idiot and spouting gun control BS.

I "think" I understand what Kingsnake meant, as my "interpretation" of it meaning that he was all for criminals not being able to do fast reloads because of a fixed 10 rd'er.
When someone experiences "a combat situation in the civilian sector" as law enforcement did when the North Hollywood Bank of America robbery happened, im sure those LEO's down there wish the criminals had fixed 10 rd'ers, would have saved them alot of grief and drama. Same goes when the mass shooting of kids took place in July 1984 at a San Ysidro McDonalds by violent anti-social firearms owner James Huberty, 41, who slaughtered 21 people and wounded 19 with an Uzi in what was then the worst attack the world had seen. Then in the mass school shooting in January 1989, hallucinating multiple felon Patrick Purdy opened fire at a Stockton, CA schoolyard with an AK-47, killing 5 kids and wounding 30. All of these are terrible instances, which if these guys would have had fixed 10 rd'ers, maybe could have been avoided. Let me cry my eyes out. Yes, bad men do bad things, but I personally believe that all citizens of the US without a criminal record should have the ability to own any type of firearm they wish, full auto, NFA, etc. Huberty, Purdy and the Columbine Kids didn't have criminal records before they went loony. If you think that mag limitations are a good thing because it might prevent crime, you are advocating policing for "future crime." And honestly, I couldn't give a rip if the cops would have preferred not to have faced >10 rounds/mag firepower during NH bank robbery. I'm sure they would also prefer all bad guys to wake up one morning and turn themselves in. The second amendment protects our freedom from would-be tyrants-including those who would rely on mercs like you.

I for one, applaud his decision to step back, quit being defensive, and apologize. So far as I can see, he made a mature choice. Now you people, as upstanding members of the firearms community should step up and act like a community. This young man deserves an apology from all of you. Especially the ones who yelled the loudest. Yes, very mature to tell someone to eff off. Apologys on the non-gun control side? Don't hold your breath.

Dont flame this, im too old to get into a pissing contest over the internet and Ive got wayyy too much Benadryl coursing thru my veins right now.Sorry, you pay your money, you take your chances. Don't like rebuttals? Then don't ridiculous comments in the first place. :rolleyes:

IBTL

8200rpm
07-21-2007, 10:32 AM
Let's change the subject and talk about the different tiers of AR manufacturers. This IS the INTERNET after all. :troll:

pnkssbtz
07-21-2007, 11:25 AM
http://www.yankees2000.com/y2k/uploaded_images/train_wreck-730041.jpg

krazek
07-21-2007, 11:38 AM
http://www.yankees2000.com/y2k/uploaded_images/train_wreck-730041.jpg

A picture is worth a thousand words.. oi guys....

tom_92673
07-21-2007, 11:43 AM
http://www.yankees2000.com/y2k/uploaded_images/train_wreck-730041.jpg

That looks eerily similar to my BM this morning. I had an odd combination of Arbys and mexican food last night, then to convince my wife I hadn't eaten out, I had to eat a chicken parmigean she had prepared.

By the way, once I get my Cetme build done, I'm gonna rule!

10TH AMENDMENT
07-21-2007, 2:27 PM
Boy, did I ever have fun reading all 120 of those posts!

TheMan
07-21-2007, 2:57 PM
I hate to say this, but I will. Only out here in california do I see the lack of common sense & courtesy in the firearms community so prevelant. If a young man made that very same comment in Ohio where I personally am from, at a gunshop, I guarantee you at least one person standing behind the counter would ask him what he meant by it, then ask him to please justify his comment, listen to what he says, then then offer an opinion. They would explain how his statement was flawed and attempt to correct him. They sure wouldnt jump down his throat and berate him. They wouldnt call him a idiot, and they sure as hell wouldnt tell him to go join the Brady bunch. Was he wrong for being defensive, maybe yes, maybe no. Im not going to judge him, I saw a person who is enjoying his newly found freedoms express his joy and understanding as "he" understands it. Maybe he didnt know how to express it quite the way he should of. Then I saw people who have been around here for quite a long time belittle him, call him names, say he had lacked 8th grade composition skills, all sorts of stuff where it actually makes me ASHAMED to be part of this community.

I agree with your sentiments, but I think you are making an invalid comparison. You are talking about how he would have been treated in a gunstore, vs. how he was treated here online. It isn't a CA vs. OH thing, it is an e-tard vs face to face sort of thing. Look at the large national boards like ARFCOM. They have the same sort of crap going on on it. If that was posted on ARFCOM, and some of the alpha geeks there tore into it, you'd have many more pages of "me-too" type bashing than here, unless it got locked.

If you met the people from here in person, you'd find a lot of good people. Most gunshops I've been in are friendly, no different from any gun stores I've been in in any other state.

Kestryll
07-21-2007, 3:48 PM
I don't want to go too much farther down this path, but what exactly do you expect to happen when inflammatory statements are made on a pro-gun message board? Especially when the same author attacks people who made sacrifices to ensure that person even has some of the rights they take advantage of?
What do i expect? I expect that we EDUCATE rather than slam or attack, frankly this threas is a sad commentary on the point we've come to. Calguns is, or was, about educating the uninformed and working together. This thread looks like we're becoming just another cliquish pit. What a waste.[/i]

Do you know who you are talking to son?
Does it matter? I don't care who it is, civility is expected and frankly this thread has been far too short of it.

Man, nice post. I agree that we should have asked him to defend and explain his position instead of jumping all over him. That would have been a discussion.
I'm still really interested to hear where he's coming from, but I'll admit it's mainly to make a counter-argument and help him get his mind straight.
Hot DAMN!!! Someone with the right idea, that restores a bit of faith.


Yes, very mature to tell someone to eff off.
Yup! Every bit as mature as this:

Go join the friggin' Bradys or LCAV. Good riddance.
As much as I like Bill and admire his efforts on the 2A front, this comment was baiting and rude, that he got the response he did is not surprising at all.
While I understand Bill's response I doubt he'd be surprised at the reply either.
That said, while Bill's comment was rude KS, your comment was just obnoxious. '**** you' is one of the things that will get you removed fairly quickly. Let's not see that again.


91 posts in under 30 hours and not one has been from a mod.
Sometimes silence is a message in itself.
I take one evening and part of a day off and look at this, I'm a slacker! :D
Sorry, my Wife had plans for me and she outranks you Ted. ;)


Now, while there are subjects here that merit discussion this thread has picked up way too much baggage to address them properly.
Feel free to start a new thread to discuss those topics civilly and we'll call this one done.