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View Full Version : CMMG vs Stag vs Bushy parts quality.


USMC_2651_E5
07-15-2007, 10:12 PM
A friend wants me to order parts for his stripped lower. He likes Bushmaster and is willing to spend the money for Bushmaster parts but would also like to save if he can get the same quality from another brand. I've heard good things about both CMMG and Stag. I thought I would ask for opinions here before I recommend a specific brand. Regardless of the brand, he is looking for a M4 type setup (with 16" barrel and fixed mag). Thanks in advance.

aplinker
07-15-2007, 10:24 PM
A friend wants me to order parts for his stripped lower. He likes Bushmaster and is willing to spend the money for Bushmaster parts but would also like to save if he can get the same quality from another brand. I've heard good things about both CMMG and Stag. I thought I would ask for opinions here before I recommend a specific brand. Regardless of the brand, he is looking for a M4 type setup (with 16" barrel and fixed mag). Thanks in advance.

There a quite a few threads on parts kit quality. I personally use all Rock River with NM 2-stage triggers and think they're worth it, but I did do my 1st build initially with a Bushmaster parts kit before I upgraded the trigger. I saw and see absolutely no difference.

bwiese
07-15-2007, 11:29 PM
For the lower parts, all will produce decent working fire-control parts and other small items that work reliably.

If he wants a 'good' trigger, step up to the bar and get the Rock River Arms 2-stage trigger - it just drops in. I think the parts in this kit can be ordered with other small parts so you don't have to buy a regular stock hammer/trigger and just throw 'em out.

As far as uppers? All make suitable uppers. Of late, I am a CMMG fan as they do a variety of things right and seem closest to milspec ("F"-marked front sight bases, 4150 bbl steel, parkerized under front sight base, good quality bolt/carriers, etc.)

Capita159
07-16-2007, 7:07 AM
My buddy and I both bought Stag's lower recievers. He built his with DPMS's parts kit, and I built mines with the Stag's parts kit. I got it from Ammo Bros in Cerritos; they told me that it is a Stag parts kit but but the bag didn't say anything on it.
The difference was the my hammer spring snaps hard than my buddy's DPMS.
check out www.colemantyler.com they got some great combo deals

proraptor
07-16-2007, 7:57 AM
Go CMMG....

ar15barrels
07-16-2007, 9:26 AM
I sell the RRA 2 stage lower parts kits for $150.
I think that's the best way to go unless you have the money for a Timney, Jewel, CMC or Gieselle...

Sydwaiz
07-16-2007, 10:22 AM
If you decide on a CMMG LPK, save your money and buy a DPMS kit. I bought a CMMG kit to compare with my other DPMS kits and the only difference was the CMMG parts look like they were sandblasted before they were finished. Everything else was exactly the same. I felt no difference in spring tension, trigger pull, slop, etc. Even the two pistol grips look like they came out of the same mold. If you just want to get your lower together and are thinking of upgrading your trigger later, go with DPMS IMO.

Shane916
07-16-2007, 10:28 AM
Most recommend RRA. Most avoid DPMS. :)

Jicko
07-16-2007, 10:34 AM
RRA.... great stuff...

RRA 2-stage trigger (FCG).... BEST bang for the buck...

WOA tuned RRA 2-stage trigger.... even crispier....

IMHO.... go to adcofirearms.com buy their "WOA tuned RRA 2-stage trigger"... and then buy their "RRA LPK (w/o FCG, fire control group)" for $36. If you are not overly satisfied at the end, I will personally give you refund and buy that off you.... lol

SFV_Dealer
07-16-2007, 10:43 AM
We sell the RRA & Stag LPK which are the best after hundreds have been sold since 2005. If we can, we would suggest top tier parts that have been MP tested such as Colt and LMT, but they are impossible to find. That's why we sell Tier 2 parts such as RRA & Stag.
Avoid Tier 3 (reject parts) from where we found poor quality with: DPMS, Model 1, and the Shotgun News specials where we found plastic (not steel) hammers & other parts!

You get what you pay for - get quality parts for a quality trigger!

proraptor
07-16-2007, 10:46 AM
Im running a DPMS in my AR and it works just fine.....

Jicko
07-16-2007, 10:49 AM
Im running a DPMS in my AR and it works just fine.....

Cool.... u r lucky.... but you shouldn't be depending on your LUCK when buying AR-parts!

Many people are running with M1S too.... they may work just fine..... until they don't.... ha ha ha

USMC_2651_E5
07-16-2007, 10:57 AM
Thanks everybody for the all the responses. I'm going to show this thread to my friend so he can make a decision.

Japedo
07-16-2007, 11:00 AM
I went with a DPMS on one of my builds, will never again. The roll pins were too big and I ended up scratching my receiver, I had to really fight them in. The first time I shot it, only 40 rounds, I found the trigger and hammer pins had wiggled out, and were only in there half way.

Go with RRA or Stag, They seem to be pretty much the same, I can't really notice a difference, the roll pins almost drop in.

Surveyor
07-16-2007, 11:03 AM
I went with a Bushy M4 16" upper from PKFirearms. http://www.pkfirearms.com/store/get_item.aspx?id=936&action=display
I also upgraded my parts kit to a RRA 2 stage trigger. This is my rifle with a 10/20 mag, before I got my red dot and Surefire. I am very happy with it. (More pics will follow in appropriate thread after I Dura-coat.)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w1/1021matt/MattsPics720.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w1/1021matt/MattsPics644.jpg

ar15barrels
07-16-2007, 12:12 PM
Avoid Tier 3 (reject parts) from where we found poor quality with: DPMS, Model 1, and the Shotgun News specials where we found plastic (not steel) hammers & other parts!

I have heard of plastic triggerguards, but plastic hammers? :eek:

bwiese
07-16-2007, 12:17 PM
I went with a DPMS on one of my builds, will never again. The roll pins were too big and I ended up scratching my receiver, I had to really fight them in.

Cleaning the roll pin openings in the receiver with a hand-turned drill bit of the appropriate size can help clean up excess coating/debris.

You can 'dress' the inserted end of the roll pin, too with a stone - so the outer edges of the circle are chamfered in a bit.

Use a roll-pin punch tool to install, too. Many people end up mangling the end of roll pins by hammering too hard, and the end swells a bit making the insertion problem even worse.


The first time I shot it, only 40 rounds, I found the trigger and hammer pins had wiggled out, and were only in there half way.

That is a sign of poor-quality/out-of-spec trigger & hammer springs. If just hammer pin walks that can be a sign of spring legs not laying in the groove(s) latching it in place (and or bad/missing "J"-spring inside the hammer).


I can't really notice a difference, the roll pins almost drop in.

Hmm, installing roll pins should offer at least some tension! If they're way too easy/way too loose that ain't good. You don't want your mag catch roll pin 'walking' either.

Capita159
07-16-2007, 1:09 PM
I remember when AR's costed around 800bucks, but if you want one that looks at Surveyor's......you'll have to double your wallet. DAMN I'm JEALOUS "WHY CAN'T THEY JUST PAID ME MORE $$$ TO BAKE CAKES!!!"

AJAX22
07-16-2007, 1:14 PM
I've built a few lowers with Bushmaster parts kits, and three with DPMS.

The DPMS function ok, and I don't have any complaints about them, (just beater rifles)

The bushmasters were nice, really nice, and you could see the quality difference and feel it when you pulled the trigger. If I did it again, I'd spend the extra 10-20 bucks on the bushmaster LPK's.

My next build however is going to make use of a Daewoo DR200 trigger assembly just to be different. ;)

Japedo
07-16-2007, 5:38 PM
I used the DPMS LPK on my 3rd OLL build, and it was by far the biggest headache. This was on a Stag 6.8 lower, I lubed the roll pins, and I literally had to pound them in, I started out using the roll pin punch tool, but I soon realized it was marring the pin, so I switched to a brass punch and a bigger hammer.

After the trigger pins had walked out, I bought those anti-walk pins with the c-clips and never looked back, something I have not had to do with any other build. I feel it was the pins, as I dry fired the rifle, I could see small movement in the pins.

When I say the roll pins just fell in, it means just light tapping with a hammer was sufficient. I didint have to use any curse words, or a BFH and blocks of wood to support the lower. I just had to hold the pin with my fingers and tap it in.



Cleaning the roll pin openings in the receiver with a hand-turned drill bit of the appropriate size can help clean up excess coating/debris.

You can 'dress' the inserted end of the roll pin, too with a stone - so the outer edges of the circle are chamfered in a bit.

Use a roll-pin punch tool to install, too. Many people end up mangling the end of roll pins by hammering too hard, and the end swells a bit making the insertion problem even worse.



That is a sign of poor-quality/out-of-spec trigger & hammer springs. If just hammer pin walks that can be a sign of spring legs not laying in the groove(s) latching it in place (and or bad/missing "J"-spring inside the hammer).




Hmm, installing roll pins should offer at least some tension! If they're way too easy/way too loose that ain't good. You don't want your mag catch roll pin 'walking' either.

NRAhighpowershooter
07-16-2007, 9:04 PM
I've done 9 lower builds using DPMS LPK's and have not one single problem with them at all....

Santa Cruz Armory
07-16-2007, 9:46 PM
I've done 9 lower builds using DPMS LPK's and have not one single problem with them at all....

AMEN! I've built 6 lowers (4 of mine, 2 for friends), all with DPMS LPKs and have had NO problems. The triggers are definately not match trigggers but all function very well. I will be getting 1 or 2 RRA NM 2 stage triggers for my 2 primary ARs though.