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Solidsnake87
07-15-2007, 2:08 PM
Hey guys,

I pretty much just use Federal American Eagle .223 55gr FMJBT through my ARs. On my stock rifles or rifles with dot optics this ammo is perfect and more accurate than the 4 or 4.3 MOA dots of Aimpoints and Trijicon reflex sites.

However, I've invested over 2K in a precsion rifle and this ammo, while good, is just not cutting it. Its very nice brass ammo that can generally give 1 MOA groups at 100 yards when I use my bipod/monopod and distinguish fliers from the group. however, fliers are common and can make overall groups as large as 2 inches at 100 yards. I was wondering if you guys could provide me the brands and loads that would work great in a 1:8 twist RRA match 20" barrel. I'm not looking to break the bank, I just want to be at or under the 1 MOA mark everytime I pull the trigger.

Would it be more cost effective to reload .223? I know that you must expend money on equipment but is it generally cheaper to shoot your own loaded ammo? Are you generally able to load more accurate loads urself while keeping costs down?

At this point, the only thing keeping me from reloading is my fear of overcharging a case with power and blowing up an expensive toy.

rksimple
07-15-2007, 2:36 PM
For factory stuff that work break the bank, Black Hills blue box 68gr HPBT is great. Federal Gold Medal Match is another, but it is pricey.

I can get more accurate and consistent ammo by reloading using the right equipment. It may seem like a monumental undertaking to get started in reloading, but after you get setup, its well worth it.

Scouter
07-15-2007, 2:41 PM
reloading using the right equipment.

what's the right equipment?

OptionX3
07-15-2007, 2:45 PM
I think reloading is way to go for your situation. I was in same boat as you about a month ago. I like to shoot but I'm also budget minded. You will not save money with reloading, but you will shoot much more and practice more. Which will make you a better shooter. I really like Federal American Eagle .223 55gr FMJBT ammo, my 24" DPMS shoots 1" 5-shot groups. At 100yrds, my reloads (Hornady 55grn FMJBT, 23grn varget) shoots about the same, They are pretty identical accuracy wise. I have never shot a sub 1/2" group with either ammo. Even 68grn loads group about the same for me at 100yrds. I would say >55gr. loads really dont show advantage until 400+yrds. HTH

OptionX3
07-15-2007, 2:52 PM
Also, with .223 reloading. Its almost impossible to double charge your loads (unlike pistol cases) Since starting load for common powder will fill 2/3 of case easily. If you accidently charge it 2x, it will spill over. With proper manual and common sense, reloading is safe.

proraptor
07-15-2007, 3:59 PM
Start reloading! Be careful though I got addicted really fast....Here is what I loaded yesterday:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/pixiepark/IMG_3200.jpg

ar15barrels
07-15-2007, 4:04 PM
what's the right equipment?

That's like asking what the right car is.
Some people are content to drive a geo metro.
Others would not be seen in anything less than a mercedes benz.

rksimple
07-15-2007, 4:12 PM
what's the right equipment?

Good bullets, brass, and reloading equipment. You can't expect surplus pulled bullets in mixed cases using bottom-of-the-barrel loading equipment to give you better accuracy than factory ammo solely by virtue of them being reloads.

proraptor
07-15-2007, 4:13 PM
Go with a Lee classic cast press....I really like mine a lot....Not to mention they are only like $70

Solidsnake87
07-15-2007, 5:02 PM
Obviously good bullets, casings, primers and powders are needed. Can somebody maybe list the equipment needed to make some sweet .223?

aplinker
07-15-2007, 6:48 PM
Obviously good bullets, casings, primers and powders are needed. Can somebody maybe list the equipment needed to make some sweet .223?

There are a bunch of threads in the "gunsmithing, ammo, reloading" Forum with almost exactly the questions you're asking.

Bottom line, you won't know what shoots well in your rifle until you try it. The good match ammo (Black Hills, Federal Gold, etc...) is worth buying a box or two and seeing what you can do. It would also be instructive for your own shooting. Sometimes it's easy to put the blame on ammunition. I'm betting that AE is shooting about 1-1.5MOA.

Jicko
07-15-2007, 7:49 PM
Dillon's article on reloading economics (but remember, this is posted on a reloading equipement manufacturer's site)
http://dillonprecision.com/reloadingsaving.cfm?dyn=1&

However, I've invested over 2K in a precsion rifle and this ammo, while good, is just not cutting it. Its very nice brass ammo that can generally give 1 MOA groups at 100 yards when I use my bipod/monopod and distinguish fliers from the group. however, fliers are common and can make overall groups as large as 2 inches at 100 yards. I was wondering if you guys could provide me the brands and loads that would work great in a 1:8 twist RRA match 20" barrel. I'm not looking to break the bank, I just want to be at or under the 1 MOA mark everytime I pull the trigger.

Would it be more cost effective to reload .223? I know that you must expend money on equipment but is it generally cheaper to shoot your own loaded ammo? Are you generally able to load more accurate loads urself while keeping costs down?

At this point, the only thing keeping me from reloading is my fear of overcharging a case with power and blowing up an expensive toy.

Also read my *tips* thread, there are links to economics too.

Basically, the bottomline, with your setup, the "holy grail" match grade ammo would be Black Hills'. For example, their 77gr SMK.... remanuf ones are about $30/50... about 60cents each; their new ones are about $40/50, about 80cents each. If you reload, you can use Nosler 77gr HPBT(very similar to SMK), and you can get down to about 20cents each. So, it is 40cents per round savings. You can just do the math, if your reloading setup is going to cost you $600, you will be able to recoup the cost in 1500 rounds.

"my fear of overcharging a case with power" <- just go conservative, and start low and work it up.... it take quite a lot to get to the point that it will blow up an AR.... (actually... since 223's case volume is so low, you probably will overflow the case long before you put too much powder in there to cause a kaboom!)

ar15barrels
07-15-2007, 8:04 PM
Go with a Lee classic cast press....I really like mine a lot....Not to mention they are only like $70

There's no way to say this nicely other than this...

The price of reloading tools generally track with the quality.
You DON'T want to buy the bottom dollar equipment.
These are tools that you will use for 20+ years.
Buy top quality tools when you will be using them forever.

Avoid the red presses with cadmium plated and cast parts all over them.
Step up to something green or blue.

Solidsnake87
07-15-2007, 8:09 PM
I'll have to get into reloading next summer when I have more $ available. For now I'll just buy some black hills.

Technical Ted
07-15-2007, 8:10 PM
Step up to something green or blue.
I concur

C.G.
07-15-2007, 8:14 PM
There's no way to say this nicely other than this...

The price of reloading tools generally track with the quality.
You DON'T want to buy the bottom dollar equipment.
These are tools that you will use for 20+ years.
Buy top quality tools when you will be using them forever.

Avoid the red presses with cadmium plated and cast parts all over them.
Step up to something green or blue.

+1. I got the green, but this forum seems to be either blue or red.

ar15barrels
07-15-2007, 8:17 PM
+1. I got the green, but this forum seems to be either blue or red.

I own presses in all shades.
Hornady and CH are red.
RCBS and Redding are Green.
Dillon are Blue.

I even have one that's black and gold made by Neil Jones.
If you know who that is, you will know WHAT the press is...

xrMike
07-16-2007, 7:32 AM
Avoid the red presses with cadmium plated and cast parts all over them.Which Lee presses have you owned and used?

proraptor
07-16-2007, 7:50 AM
There's no way to say this nicely other than this...

The price of reloading tools generally track with the quality.
You DON'T want to buy the bottom dollar equipment.
These are tools that you will use for 20+ years.
Buy top quality tools when you will be using them forever.

Avoid the red presses with cadmium plated and cast parts all over them.
Step up to something green or blue.

Im guessing you havent used or even seen the classic cast press....It isnt a bottom of the barrel press. Its the beefiest single stage press I have ever seen, It makes the green press look a little wussy. Not to mention it can be used to reload .50 BMG with a kit you can buy.

If I had to do it all over again and buy another single stage press Id stick with my choice of the Lee classic cast press. There is no reason to spend more on a more expensive single stage IMO....There are tons of reviews on the net that will say the same as I did here...Here is a pic of it....The linkage and frame are massive

http://www.arrowmark.com.au/leeCLASSIC.jpg

ar15barrels
07-16-2007, 9:00 AM
Which Lee presses have you owned and used?

The classic cast.
It's got cadmium plated parts all over it.
I only bought it to load 50 BMG.

I'll probably chase down an old hollywood instead as it does not have enough stroke to easily load 50 BMG.

ocabj
07-16-2007, 10:39 AM
There is no reason to spend more on a more expensive single stage IMO

Actually, there is. After 2 years down the line, if you need to get the Lee serviced, they're going to charge you for it. But with an RCBS, 30 years down the line, if you need to get the press serviced, they are not going to charge you for it.

The Lee Classic Cast may be nearly half the price of a new Rockchucker, but that price is paying for that lifetime warranty service. And it's transferable, too. My friend bought a used Rockchucker that was probably made in the early 80s. He used it for a few years then the ram was getting sloppy. He called RCBS, they told him to send it in. 2 weeks later he received a brand new Rockchucker of current production.

proraptor
07-16-2007, 10:45 AM
I highly doubt the classic cast is going to need any servicing....The thing is built like a tank....The pics do it no justice...Im happy with my purchase

Prc329
07-16-2007, 10:54 AM
Maybe this will help

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=60848

I also recently got a Lyman DPS3 and it kicks *** for about $230 or so.

xrMike
07-16-2007, 11:00 AM
I highly doubt the classic cast is going to need any servicing....The thing is built like a tank....The pics do it no justice...Im happy with my purchaseProraptor, I share your opinion about Lee stuff. I'm real happy with my Classic Turret so far, but I'm not using it to kick out 2,000+ rounds a month with it either...

I don't think anybody is putting out higher QUALITY ammo with their green or blue press than we are with our red ones, but Jon does pretty much summarize the only real difference among the 3 top brands -- warranty. We only get 2 years with ours. I can live with that.

If 3 years from now mine breaks, I'll be the first one to say, "You know, you were right, wish I would've got a rockchucker now that my Lee broke."

But for now I am totally satisfied, like you. In 2 years I will have recovered my purchase cost several times over, I'm sure.

The blue and the green forces are strong here.

rksimple
07-16-2007, 11:07 AM
I'd like to see a comparison in runout between ammo loaded with a 5 year old Rockchucker and a 5 year old Lee press. My money's on the RCBS.

xrMike
07-16-2007, 11:09 AM
I'd like to see a comparison in runout between ammo loaded with a 5 year old Rockchucker and a 5 year old Lee press. My money's on the RCBS.What is "runout" as it relates to reloading? Change in OAL over time (or something like that)?

proraptor
07-16-2007, 1:10 PM
Ive seen reviews of people using both presses for an extended period of time without any problems....Another cool thing about the money I saved with the Lee is now I can buy a Lee turret press to pump out .223 in quantity


I really think there are way too many people out there that think Lee doesnt make quality stuff because they make some low end stuff also, so they feel the need to spend more money....I myself as a beginner reloader love the Lee stuff I bought and think Ill still be happy 2 years later with it....

ocabj
07-16-2007, 1:15 PM
I'd like to see a comparison in runout between ammo loaded with a 5 year old Rockchucker and a 5 year old Lee press. My money's on the RCBS.

Runout is related more to case prep and the dies than the press.

Runout is the one of the few things I don't measure for. I doubt it's holding me back though, as far as my High Power scores are concerned.

As far as the whole Lee vs everything else, I don't get caught up in it. If people want to use a Lee press or dies, then they can if they want to. The only thing Lee I own is the Lee hand primer.

If I had to buy another single stage press right now, I would probably go Hornady.

I don't care what single stage press you have, you definitely should have a Hornady Lock-n-Load conversion kit. Makes die changes so much easier.

rksimple
07-16-2007, 1:45 PM
Runout is related more to case prep and the dies than the press.

Runout is the one of the few things I don't measure for. I doubt it's holding me back though, as far as my High Power scores are concerned.

As far as the whole Lee vs everything else, I don't get caught up in it. If people want to use a Lee press or dies, then they can if they want to. The only thing Lee I own is the Lee hand primer.

If I had to buy another single stage press right now, I would probably go Hornady.

I don't care what single stage press you have, you definitely should have a Hornady Lock-n-Load conversion kit. Makes die changes so much easier.

Not so. Squareness of the press threads to the ram and slop in the ram can cause excessive runout. As to the definition of runout, check this thread: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=206736&page=4#Post206736

I use the Lee hand priming system too (Auto Prime) and it works well. However I've gone through about 3 handles now as the junk metal they are made out of breaks pretty easily. Regardless of this, they do provide good tactile feedback as to how your primer pockets are doing.

Lee makes some good stuff. Their Collet neck dies are great. But some of their equipment is made with poor quality metal and it shows.

rksimple
07-16-2007, 1:52 PM
Ive seen reviews of people using both presses for an extended period of time without any problems...

Like Randall said about cars, some people are fine with a Geo Metro, and some wouldn't be seen in anything less than a Mercedes. If I were just loading bulk .223, a Lee may be perfect for me. For benchrest, probably not...

ar15barrels
07-16-2007, 1:55 PM
Like Randall said about cars, some people are fine with a Geo Metro, and some wouldn't be seen in anything less than a Mercedes. If I were just loading bulk .223, a Lee may be perfect for me. For benchrest, probably not...

I load a LOT of 223 to feed my 3gun habit.
I could not imagine loading on anything less than a Dillon 650 at about 800 rounds/hour.
Now I have the 1050 at 1000+ rounds per hour and the slow 650 would even be a hassle for me.

Once you have drunk the blue Kool-Aid, you will never go back. :D

proraptor
07-16-2007, 2:02 PM
For bulk ammunition I want a Dillon 550.....They are sweet....For precision Im going to keep my lee classic cast....With the forster micrometer die its super accurate

ar15barrels
07-16-2007, 2:06 PM
For bulk ammunition I want a Dillon 550.....They are sweet....For precision Im going to keep my lee classic cast....With the forster micrometer die its super accurate

I'll challenge you to prove that the single stage is more accurate.
I tried, I honestly did, to prove that to myself and I could not.
Now everything gets loaded on progressives.

If Dillon made a progressive that would run 50 BMG, I would have one of those too...

Do you know what the AMU loads their match ammo on?

chunger
07-16-2007, 2:18 PM
I drink the blue cool aid. My 550B was purchased for bulk .45 and 9mm. Now, it's an easy transition to .223 rifle. I'm very glad I upped for the blue one on the front end.

I haven't started .223 yet, but have been advised to use processed brass as case prep is critical to accurate rife loads. . . and it also takes the most time in the reloading process. Outsourcing that step seems to still save tons of money in my calculations.

proraptor
07-16-2007, 2:22 PM
I'll challenge you to prove that the single stage is more accurate.
I tried, I honestly did, to prove that to myself and I could not.
Now everything gets loaded on progressives.

If Dillon made a progressive that would run 50 BMG, I would have one of those too...

Do you know what the AMU loads their match ammo on?

Challenge or not Ill still use a single stage for precision ammo..My buddy Aaron has a 550 and still goes back to his rockchucker for precision 22-250 ackley improved....In the future Im going to buy either the 550 or the 650 for bulk rifle and pistol ammunition....

xrMike
07-16-2007, 2:35 PM
Like Randall said about cars, some people are fine with a Geo Metro, and some wouldn't be seen in anything less than a Mercedes. If I were just loading bulk .223, a Lee may be perfect for me. For benchrest, probably not...On July 25th, 1993, Robert Frey established a new 1000 yard world benchrest record using Lee collet dies and a $20-something dollar Lee loader kit. His record stood for 7 years. And he was only using basic, bare-bones Lee stuff...

Hmmmm... This tells me that 'success' and 'quality' and 'accuracy' have a lot more to do with the operator, rather than how much money he dropped on his equipment.

Technical Ted
07-16-2007, 2:36 PM
On July 25th, 1993, Robert Frey established a new 1000 yard world benchrest record using Lee collet dies and a $20-something dollar Lee loader kit. His record stood for 7 years. And he was only using basic, bare-bones Lee stuff...

Hmmmm... This tells me that 'success' and 'quality' and 'accuracy' have a lot more to do with the operator, rather than how much money he dropped on his equipment.
It's all about paying attention to the details.

rksimple
07-16-2007, 3:14 PM
On July 25th, 1993, Robert Frey established a new 1000 yard world benchrest record using Lee collet dies and a $20-something dollar Lee loader kit. His record stood for 7 years. And he was only using basic, bare-bones Lee stuff...

Hmmmm... This tells me that 'success' and 'quality' and 'accuracy' have a lot more to do with the operator, rather than how much money he dropped on his equipment.

Go down the line at any national benchrest match and count how many Lee presses you see. Report back.

proraptor
07-16-2007, 3:21 PM
Go down the line at any national benchrest match and count how many Lee presses you see. Report back.

Who cares how many people use them....Hes showing that Lee stuff can be just as good as other companies stuff.....If a guy can set a world record with Lee stuff then it probably doesnt mean that the Lee stuff is crap....

rksimple
07-16-2007, 3:22 PM
I'll challenge you to prove that the single stage is more accurate.
I tried, I honestly did, to prove that to myself and I could not.
Now everything gets loaded on progressives.

If Dillon made a progressive that would run 50 BMG, I would have one of those too...

Do you know what the AMU loads their match ammo on?

I loaded some MK262 clones on my pop's old Dillon 350 using the same dies I use on my Rockchucker. It shot just as well out of my SPR as the ammo from the Rockchucker. That was using ball powder, though, and Varget doesn't meter as consistently through that powder maesure.

Prc329
07-16-2007, 3:23 PM
I'm thinking of a dillon or maybe a conversion kit for my rockchucker for bulk 223 and 45. I'll probably still prime by hand though.

xrMike
07-16-2007, 3:24 PM
Go down the line at any national benchrest match and count how many Lee presses you see. Report back.Will I see you on the line, shooting among that elite group?

Okay then. :D

rksimple
07-16-2007, 3:24 PM
Who cares how many people use them....Hes showing that Lee stuff can be just as good as other companies stuff.....If a guy can set a world record with Lee stuff then it probably doesnt mean that the Lee stuff is crap....

What if he shot that group using a Super Sniper? Would that make the SS as good as a USO? You pay your money and take your chances...

rksimple
07-16-2007, 3:25 PM
Will I see you on the line, shooting among that elite group?

Okay then. :D

Maybe someday. Right now, I get my kicks on my belly behind a rifle with a bipod.:D

Jicko
07-16-2007, 3:27 PM
I loaded some MK262 clones on my pop's old Dillon 350 using the same dies I use on my Rockchucker. It shot just as well out of my SPR as the ammo from the Rockchucker. That was using ball powder, though, and Varget doesn't meter as consistently through that powder maesure.

So, which powder you find performing well with Dillon's powder measure?

rksimple
07-16-2007, 3:28 PM
So, which powder you find performing well with Dillon's powder measure?

748, DP68, 73, 74, 79 and H335 are the powders I have used with it.

proraptor
07-16-2007, 3:35 PM
What if he shot that group using a Super Sniper? Would that make the SS as good as a USO? You pay your money and take your chances...

The super sniper would probbly work just fine at 1000 yards.....I love my super sniper

rksimple
07-16-2007, 3:40 PM
The super sniper would probbly work just fine at 1000 yards.....I love my super sniper


You didn't answer my question...it may work fine, but its not as good as a USO. Just as a Lee press is not going to be as good as a Forster Co-Ax or Sinclair arbor press. Lee makes OK stuff, as I said before. But to think its "as good" as others, all things considered, is naive.

proraptor
07-16-2007, 3:49 PM
You didn't answer my question...it may work fine, but its not as good as a USO. Just as a Lee press is not going to be as good as a Forster Co-Ax or Sinclair arbor press. Lee makes OK stuff, as I said before. But to think its "as good" as others, all things considered, is naive.

Just because something is cheaper doesnt mean its inferior...Ill bet anything my Lee classic cast press makes just as good ammunition as any press out there....I really think the dies make the biggest difference and not the press anyways....My Forster micrometer is the cheapest micrometer out there ($50)....Is it inferior to redding or RCBS?

There are too many people like you that think you need the name brand stuff because it costs more it has to be better....Just like people that buy name brand jeans.....They have to be better right? Cause they are name brand right? What in the hell makes them better?

rksimple
07-16-2007, 3:57 PM
Just because something is cheaper doesnt mean its inferior...Ill bet anything my Lee classic cast press makes just as good ammunition as any press out there....I really think the dies make the biggest difference and not the press anyways....My Forster micrometer is the cheapest micrometer out there ($50)....Is it inferior to redding or RCBS?

There are too many people like you that think you need the name brand stuff because it costs more it has to be better....Just like people that buy name brand jeans.....They have to be better right? Cause they are name brand right? What in the hell makes them better?

People like me? Do you know me? When did I say that you NEEDED name brand stuff. YOU probably don't. Is your reading comprehension not up to snuff or did you just skip over my post about the Lee Auto Prime and Collet dies I use?

I don't care about name brand stuff, I care about good stuff. It just so happens that many big brand names like Dillon, Redding, Forster, etc. deliver a better product more often than Lee.

Fjold
07-16-2007, 4:12 PM
People like me? Do you know me? When did I say that you NEEDED name brand stuff. YOU probably don't. Is your reading comprehension not up to snuff or did you just skip over my post about the Lee Auto Prime and Collet dies I use?

I don't care about name brand stuff, I care about good stuff. It just so happens that many big brand names like Dillon, Redding, Forster, etc. deliver a better product more often than Lee.


I have Redding, Lyman, Lee and Dillon presses, all do their job well.

Lee is the big name brand in reloading, last year the National Reloading Manufacturers Association listed Lee as the highest selling Manufacturer in reloading equipment.

rksimple
07-16-2007, 4:32 PM
I have Redding, Lyman, Lee and Dillon presses, all do their job well.

Lee is the big name brand in reloading, last year the National Reloading Manufacturers Association listed Lee as the highest selling Manufacturer in reloading equipment.

I agree. I should have worded my sentence differently. They are all "name" brands.

Offering some of the cheapest reloading equipment out there, it comes as no surprise that they sold the most. Speaking of which, I need a collet die for my 30-06...but I can't buy Lee because I'm such a "brand name" guy.:rolleyes:

proraptor
07-16-2007, 4:33 PM
I agree. I should have worded my sentence differently. They are all "name" brands.

Offering some of the cheapest reloading equipment out there, it comes as no surprise that they sold the most. Speaking of which, I need a collet die for my 30-06...but I can't buy Lee because I'm such a "brand name" guy.:rolleyes:

Maybe you arent a brand name guy but you are an ***....Why attack someone just because they like their Lee press?

This website is really turning into arfcom.....At arfcom if you dont have a larue or dd rail then you just arent as good as the other members on the board and you get attacked all the time when you say you like your midwest industries rail more...

rksimple
07-16-2007, 4:46 PM
Maybe you arent a brand name guy but you are an ***....Why attack someone just because they like their Lee press?


When did I attack? I asked simple questions and if you interpreted them as an attack, you shouldn't have. You were quite forward when you said "people like me," so who did the attacking? Don't get so worked up.

I like some Lee stuff too, as I have said. I have a Lee Load-All for 20ga. It works well. Will it last as long as my Mec, maybe, maybe not. The Mec sure feels more solid. Like others have said, there is a difference. It may be minute, it may not be. You're ahead of the game by just having reloading equipment and being willing to learn. After you have a few thousand rounds loaded on a few different presses, you may have a different outlook, you may not.

ETA: Seriously Proraptor, I'm sorry if you thought I was attacking. I think I just took issue with how fast you disregarded Randall (who has more reloading experience than most) and his post about Lee stuff and their cadmium plated and cast parts, and you tout them as the best thing since sliced bread. And all of this coming from a guy that has, what, 1 day of reloading experience? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=63456
It must've just rubbed me the wrong way. Once again, sorry if you were offended. I'll buy you a drink after the burro shoot or somethin' and we'll talk.

Solidsnake87
07-16-2007, 5:50 PM
once again guys, I have no personal experience reloading nor do I know all the equipment I need.

What all do I need to start loading some very accurate .223? I rarely shoot more than 100 rounds of .223 when I take my ARs out. I like to take my time even if I'm plinking. I don't need equipment that is hugely expensive for mass producing ammo, however, i'd like some good equipment that will last many many years producing very accurate .223. Please list some equipment with an estimated cost.

Jicko
07-16-2007, 5:56 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=55286

Solidsnake87
07-16-2007, 6:10 PM
I read the thread but I'm still not aware of what I would be getting. They are listing links for mass producing ammo which some of the guy says will affect precision. Also, they are listing pistol caliber reloading machines.

Here is what I need to know

1.) What tools are needed to load .223?

2.) Do these tools come in a complete kit that will last many years?

3.) Which tools are best for .223 precision loads?

4.) Which brand names are ideal?

Just take a second to answer these without send me links. I know you are trying to help but since I'm new to this concept a straight up answer would be the best for me and would better help me along my way.

Prc329
07-16-2007, 6:11 PM
Check the post Jicko gave as well as the one I gave you

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=60848

Should find all you need there.

Prc329
07-16-2007, 6:12 PM
My post went into detail about what I bought as well as what I did to set up, etc.

Should help a bit in your understanding.

proraptor
07-16-2007, 6:34 PM
Im done with this thread...It always has to turn out to be a flame war.....I might as well go back to arfcom....

ar15barrels
07-16-2007, 6:35 PM
There are too many people like you that think you need the name brand stuff because it costs more it has to be better....Just like people that buy name brand jeans.....They have to be better right? Cause they are name brand right? What in the hell makes them better?

The quality makes them better.
I use redding, forester and RCBS dies because I have looked at the inside of lee dies and fixed them for friends who don't know better.

The price does not make something better quality.
Better quality does make it cost more though.

That's why Lee has such good prices.
Figure it out, it's really pretty simple...

ar15barrels
07-16-2007, 6:47 PM
I think I just took issue with how fast you disregarded Randall (who has more reloading experience than most) and his post about Lee stuff and their cadmium plated and cast parts, and you tout them as the best thing since sliced bread. And all of this coming from a guy that has, what, 1 day of reloading experience? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=63456
It must've just rubbed me the wrong way. Once again, sorry if you were offended. I'll buy you a drink after the burro shoot or somethin' and we'll talk.

I have been reloading for 11 years.
I have over a dozen reloading presses.
I load for 40+ cartridges.
I loaded 50,000 rounds in my first 4 years.
I might know a little bit about which I speak.

I tried Lee presses and dies.
They did not hold up to my expectations of what a quality tool should be.
The only lee things I currently own are a couple of their taper crimp dies (the factory crimp dies were eating brass from all the burrs inside), the classic cast press for 50bmg (which is NOT really long enough to easily load 50bmg because you have to stick the bullet up into the seater die before you can put it in the case mouth) and a set of shellholders that I bought as a "take to the range" set for my load development tools so I don't have to share my main set of RCBS and Redding shellholders between multiple sets of reloading equipment.

proraptor
07-16-2007, 6:47 PM
The quality makes them better.
I use redding, forester and RCBS dies because I have looked at the inside of lee dies and fixed them for friends who don't know better.

The price does not make something better quality.
Better quality does make it cost more though.

That's why Lee has such good prices.
Figure it out, it's really pretty simple...

Its really that simple huh? Man I guess Im not smart enough for you to put the brake I was going to order on my barrel....I guess Ill have to go elsewhere....:rolleyes:

Solidsnake87
07-16-2007, 6:53 PM
Check the post Jicko gave as well as the one I gave you

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=60848

Should find all you need there.

Thanks, This has been very helpful.

CSACANNONEER
07-16-2007, 7:06 PM
The classic cast.
It's got cadmium plated parts all over it.
I only bought it to load 50 BMG.

I'll probably chase down an old hollywood instead as it does not have enough stroke to easily load 50 BMG.

I bought mine as a backup press for BMGs. Over a year later, I have yet to open the box. But, I do know several people that are doing well at FCSA 1000yd matches with ammo loaded on Lee presses.

C.G.
07-16-2007, 7:10 PM
Im done with this thread...It always has to turn out to be a flame war.....I might as well go back to arfcom....

I believe you were the one that started the name calling.
And in spite of RKsimple apologizing for something that I don't think he needed to apologize for, you post the above and ignore his apology (not even to mention advice from people that have more experience in reloading than both of us).
Perhaps arfcom is your place.

jtv3062
07-16-2007, 7:14 PM
Do you know what the AMU loads their match ammo on?

I know I seen the US Marines use the Forster Co-Ax press. I seen it on one of the gun shows on the discovery or the history channel I'm not certain if I seen the same press and the AMU table

aplinker
07-17-2007, 12:58 AM
Why is everyone so wound up?

It's a good thing none of us have pistol grips on our ARs to be able to wildly spray our Lee, Dillon or RCBS hand-loaded rounds at eachother.

Proraptor - I know you like your Lee press, but have you used any others? How long have you been using it? How much time have you spent using the others? How much basis of comparison do you have? Clearly there's no right answer here, but it doesn't mean their points are invalid. You're dismissing the experience of people who've been doing this a while. Seems a bit ill-advised to me. I've met Randall; I would hardly consider him to be a label snob. He's opinionated, sure, but he's also had his hands on things and worked through the metal. I value his opinions. You should suck it up and let him put your brake on. Not just because he's cheap and good, but because you'd probably enjoy meeting him and talking shop.

30Cal
07-17-2007, 8:18 AM
Short of uber-benchrest accuracy, you can easily make extremely accurate handloads with any of the major press/die manufacturers. Pick one you like. Some of them are maybe built to tighter tolerances or are more durable. In the higher orders of obsessive/compulsive handloaders, it might be a great enough difference to be detectable if you shot enough targets.

From the target perspective the difference between the best and the worst is a pretty fine line.

But this one goes up to eleven!:rolleyes:

Ty