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thrillhouse700
10-16-2012, 1:04 PM
First off I would like to explain that I don't get to the range often these days, but I have finally gotten the zeroing of my scope and rifle down pretty well. I could be better at the fine tuning part and need to work on my breathing and steady hand. Now that I can group decently at 100 yards I would like to step up to the more complicated longer range stuff.

I usually shoot at lytle and the range goes out to 300yds and I think right now the 300yd line is closed, so 200yds max.

I was just wondering how do you actually shoot long distance? Or is there a good read you guys can rec me. I'm talking about calculating bullet drop, wind speed, temp, humidity, etc etc etc. The step by step process of shooting long distance.

This intrigues me more than just popping off rounds at water bottles and gongs.

jwkincal
10-16-2012, 1:06 PM
What does "group decently" mean... in numerical terms?

thrillhouse700
10-16-2012, 1:09 PM
My best was about 1.5 inches at 100 yards with a 5 shot group. My average is about 2 inch groups with 5 shots. I know that's not great but I had something like a 6 inch group when I first fired the rifle, so I am improving.

Stoopy
10-16-2012, 1:12 PM
What type of rifle, scope, ammo are you using? What are your goals, distance and group size?

CobraRed
10-16-2012, 1:13 PM
My best was about 1.5 inches at 100 yards with a 5 shot group. My average is about 2 inch groups with 5 shots. I know that's not great but I had something like a 6 inch group when I first fired the rifle, so I am improving.

What kind of rifle and scope we talking about? A 2" group at 600 yards will be a 12", and that's assuming you're getting a 2" group due to your rifle, if you're pulling 1-2 rounds then that multiplies at range, as does the mentioned variables like windage and drop.
Practicing at 100-200 yards is good practice.

ExtremeX
10-16-2012, 1:20 PM
This intrigues me more than just popping off rounds at water bottles and gongs.

Same here

Lots to learn in long distance shooting… one of the best tools I got which helped me learn a lot about ballistics was a Ballistics calculator. I use Ballistics FTE for iPhone for example… Playing with various variables helped me understand what happens to bullet drop, and also aided in my understanding of how to correctly use a scope… Adjustment of turrets, thinking in MIL or MOA instead of inches…

Selecting a good target scope with matching turrets/reticle does wonders for the learning process too. Being able to measure correction using the reticle and translate that to a usable adjustment to dial into the turrets…

Aside from learning the technical details, the best way to learn is just go out and shoot and see if you can take information like the above and translate that into real world results. Trigger time is king.

Since you have been pulling off 1.5” groups at 100, which aren’t bad, have you tried using match ammo, and seeing if you can improve on that? Ammo can make a HUGE difference for accuracy.

CK_32
10-16-2012, 1:23 PM
OP there is no how to for long range its either a ton of reading and learning or getting a good gun buddy who knows what he's talking about and a ton of reading...

There is so much to be answered before any of us can really begin to help you.. I my self am self taught due to having no issue with researching into the wee hours of the night for months until I know what I want to know...

That being said I highly recommend you watch Darrel Hollands AGI video to get a base then research from there... A little out dated but still great info and base to start from.

10rounds
10-16-2012, 1:52 PM
There's a sub-forum here called California Precision Rifle Club. They also have their own web site.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=123

http://www.caprc.com

LCU1670
10-16-2012, 2:00 PM
Get Major Plasters book.

russ69
10-16-2012, 2:31 PM
My best was about 1.5 inches at 100 yards with a 5 shot group. My average is about 2 inch groups with 5 shots. I know that's not great but I had something like a 6 inch group when I first fired the rifle, so I am improving.

Work on your rifle and loads and try to get down to one inch groups. Use the NRA MR-31 target, when you can shoot a 95 or better score, then you can start moving the targets out to the longer lines.

HK Dave
10-16-2012, 2:49 PM
Getting Started in LR Shooting (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=237232&nt=5&page=1)

Careful... long distance shooting is extremely addicting... and in my case, became extremely expensive.

HK Dave
10-16-2012, 2:50 PM
BTW, 300 yards is not long distance... 300 yards isn't a whole lot more difficult than 100 yards provided you're running at least 223.

paul0660
10-16-2012, 2:54 PM
Ammo consistency
barrel temp

Then everything else. You can have wind and sights (scope) figured out to the gnat's *** but you can't be sure unless the two above are constant.

CSACANNONEER
10-16-2012, 2:54 PM
I learned how to shoot XLD by showing up at my first 1000 yard match and shooting it with a gun that I'd only fired 9 rounds out of prior to the match. I had never seen a 1000 yard range before shooting the match. My goal was to keep most (not all) of my rounds on the 6 foot by 6 foot target. That's what I did. Now, I kick myself when I see a flyer open my 5" group up to 18 inches. Really, if you are shooting a know distance and can fire one sighter, you don't need to worry about anything else. Just use the one shot zero method and then shoot your groups.

Of course, consistant shooting techniques, consistant ammo, a decent eye, quality optics, quality mounts and a quality rifle (in that order but, that's just my opinion) are all important parts of the equation.

paul0660
10-16-2012, 2:57 PM
5" group up to 18 inches

at 1000.

Pics.

CSACANNONEER
10-16-2012, 3:07 PM
at 1000.

Pics.

The match records speak for themselves. I'm not in the pits when I'm shooting so, I don't always get pictures. Anyway, I did take a picture of the only group I shot off the benches at Coalinga the day after we put them on the line. It's not anything special but, it's definately sub moa.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/csacannoneer/DSCI0061.jpg

I think this is the 6 1/4" group I shot on first record target of our Coaliga match this last June but, I'm not positive. Yes, it is a 5 shot group.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/csacannoneer/IMG_4852.jpg

Here's another picture of it with my signature X ring flyer:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/csacannoneer/IMG_4855.jpg

A few year back, I shot back to back % something inch 48-1X groups and both of them were 3" 4 shot groups with an X-ring flyer.

jwkincal
10-16-2012, 3:07 PM
Do you know what a "dime-washer" drill is? Google it if you don't.

It will help you isolate your trigger squeeze; especially if you do it standing on one leg and holding the rifle in one hand beneath the upraised leg. No, I'm not kidding.

Look into the match ammo, it can make a difference. Try different brands because every rifle is different about its preferences. When your 100 yard group is consistently around 1" then start thinking about 300 yards.

Read. Read some more. Then start really reading. Learn as much as you can about Exterior Ballistics. If it seems too esoteric then start with the foundations: Newtonian mechanics. Don't sweat the fluid mechanics because the computer/smartphone apps will handle that part, but you need to have a fundamental understanding of what is happening to a projectile in flight.

Most of all... have fun!

Lifeon2whls
10-16-2012, 3:26 PM
My advice to you is to start going to matches and signing up. The guys you meet there are overwhelmingly helpful and will share years of experience for just saying hello. You can always find a CMP Clinic which will provide a lot of great information on how to shoot properly. They typically have rifles to lend and should have a match afterwards to let you get your feet wet.

Rifle and Ammo are only part of it. You need to learn position, trigger/finger control, how to use a sling properly and MOST important...how to shoot at long distances with iron sights. You will learn more about how to shoot accurately shooting at 200 yards standing with irons than you will all day on a bench with a scope. Once you master that control you can apply it to your scope and you will be amazed at the differences.

And I've shot a 95 in a match with a military rifle, irons and surplus ammo...so again focus on the basics before you try upgrading any of your equipment.

ar15barrels
10-16-2012, 3:44 PM
A CAPRC Clinic A will get you going on the right path.
After that, practice the essentials until you can shoot 10 1/2" dots clean.
THEN after that, go to longer range targets.

Go shoot this target and post your results:
www.caprc.com/targets/10dot.pdf

wash
10-16-2012, 4:29 PM
It really helps if the wind isn't blowing.

Last Sunday at Coalinga was nice, mild wind, mild temperatures and unbelievably we had the whole 1,000 yard range to ourselves, everyone else was just sighting in at the little side range and no one was shooting steels.

My shooting was nothing to be terribly proud of, most of my groups were within 2 MOA at 600 yards shooting an AR30 with a pretty lousy trigger and a Serbu with a scope that has parallax issues.

I wanted to try out my Arisaka again but my $30 scope wouldn't actually focus. I also wanted to try out my Space Gun but I didn't have a front sight and the Elcan C79 I slapped on seems to have issues too. I wound up just borrowing.

razr
10-16-2012, 4:57 PM
Watch some of his stuff, very informative.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwG-D0HjCBQ&feature=channel&list=UL

CK_32
10-16-2012, 5:10 PM
Watch some of his stuff, very informative.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwG-D0HjCBQ&feature=channel&list=UL

:rofl: "send it" :rofl: never gets old!

Too much "sniper" in the into to take seriously. I turned it off after 30 seconds

razr
10-16-2012, 5:20 PM
:rofl: "send it" :rofl: never gets old!

Too much "sniper" in the into to take seriously. I turned it off after 30 seconds

He covers ammo selection, rifle selection and covers hunting.

Horton Fenty
10-16-2012, 5:46 PM
BTW, 300 yards is not long distance... 300 yards isn't a whole lot more difficult than 100 yards provided you're running at least 223.

This. With a 243 for example if you're zeroed at 300 yards you are only 4 inches high or so at 100, depending on the load of course. Shooting long distance isn't difficult. All you need is accurate dope and a way to range estimate. A nice scope, a bit of simple math, and practice is all you need.

postal
10-16-2012, 5:46 PM
If you go to Lytle,

Then you need to go the PBR match at West End Gun Club. It's a LOT closer to the freeway than lytle- same exit... Look closely for the sign about 1-1.5 miles from the gas station/fast food.

Next match is this coming sunday the 21'st at 7:00. Look for updates on caprc.com - monthly matches.

Come out, watch, introduce yourself, say you're new and need help- better yet, bring your rifle, bipod, ammo, introduce yourself, say you're new and need help.

What cartridge/ammo are you shooting? do you reload?

A lot of people (me included) use "jbmballistics" just google it. and enter your info. Its best to put stuff through a chrono so we know the velocity, and then jbm is quite accurate.

Come on out, introduce yourself, say you're new and need help. A bunch of people will give you far more help and info than you can digest in a few hours.

A CAPRC clinic like AR15 barrels mentioned is a great way to get into it as well depending on their schedule.

So... sunday, bring all your gear, rifle, ammo... and we'll battle it out for last place.:D

Just tell us cartridge/ammo you use before hand so we can run some numbers through JBM and be more help.

Technically, it is a competition, but its fun, and not something to take seriously. Trust me, the fasted way you will learn this stuff is to do it in a competition, and tell people you're new and need help.

chino
10-16-2012, 7:17 PM
EONS ago when I caught the bug I was in "blasting mode" coolest toys, latest optics, how fast and semi accurately could I launch lead, destroy plastic bottles, clays.

Then I started with precison shoting. Avid reader of Plaster and Mike Lau's books. Precision reloading, no longer for volume, chronographs, clinics, optics whore, gear snob... At 100 yards bugholes were the norm. Lots of learning, lots of fun.

Beginners work on trajectories and come ups, masters work on doping the wind. The later keeps challenging me.

postal
10-16-2012, 10:26 PM
Uh....

Yay You? ^^^^

But how did that help the OP get started?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Baconator
10-16-2012, 10:27 PM
Use an AT&T card when calling long distance to avoid high fees.

CK_32
10-16-2012, 10:31 PM
If you go to Lytle,

Then you need to go the PBR match at West End Gun Club. It's a LOT closer to the freeway than lytle- same exit... Look closely for the sign about 1-1.5 miles from the gas station/fast food.

Next match is this coming sunday the 21'st at 7:00. Look for updates on caprc.com - monthly matches.

Come out, watch, introduce yourself, say you're new and need help- better yet, bring your rifle, bipod, ammo, introduce yourself, say you're new and need help.

What cartridge/ammo are you shooting? do you reload?

A lot of people (me included) use "jbmballistics" just google it. and enter your info. Its best to put stuff through a chrono so we know the velocity, and then jbm is quite accurate.

Come on out, introduce yourself, say you're new and need help. A bunch of people will give you far more help and info than you can digest in a few hours.

A CAPRC clinic like AR15 barrels mentioned is a great way to get into it as well depending on their schedule.

So... sunday, bring all your gear, rifle, ammo... and we'll battle it out for last place.:D

Just tell us cartridge/ammo you use before hand so we can run some numbers through JBM and be more help.

Technically, it is a competition, but its fun, and not something to take seriously. Trust me, the fasted way you will learn this stuff is to do it in a competition, and tell people you're new and need help.

What about me can I be new and introduce my self :D

I've been planning on heading out there to try and finally finish my dam hand loads. Then was thinking of taking a match or 2 once I finally got it dialed in a bit.

thrillhouse700
10-16-2012, 10:38 PM
I am shooting my lr308 and I am just using cheap ammo, I am running a Nikon buckmaster scope. All the info is great I will check it all out. Thanks guys. Guess maybe I should learn how to reload first? Any classes or clinics for that? I have the ABCs book.

CK_32
10-16-2012, 10:55 PM
I am shooting my lr308 and I am just using cheap ammo, I am running a Nikon buckmaster scope. All the info is great I will check it all out. Thanks guys. Guess maybe I should learn how to reload first? Any classes or clinics for that? I have the ABCs book.

You don't HAVE to reload.. But it helps.. Just get out there and start shooting. Reload when you have time.. It's another hobby trust me.. But just do some google searching and youtube and get a good baseline then get a good reloading manual.. But if you can find a class that would be a great start to get into reloading.

thrillhouse700
10-17-2012, 12:14 AM
So maybe I should start with my .22lr and get MORE of the basics down? I want to do an appleseed shoot but every time its in town something happens and I can't make it.

ocabj
10-17-2012, 7:24 AM
I think the first thing to do when learning how to read wind, is how to read wind changes. The best way to learn how to read wind changes is to actually spot/score for a good shooter.

If you go to an NRA Mid-Range match like a 3x600, or an NRA Long Range (Palma or 3x1000), get next to or directly behind a good shooter with a spotting scope and watch how they react to mirage/flag/indicator changes (do they wait it out or put clicks on the gun).

ar15barrels
10-17-2012, 10:55 AM
So maybe I should start with my .22lr and get MORE of the basics down?

Yes.

Quit accepting the excuses that stop you from attending an appleseed.
Make it a priority above those other things...

Quinc
10-17-2012, 12:23 PM
Check out the Magpul Long range DVD. Tons of good info in there. I think you can get it brownells etc for a bit cheaper.
http://store.magpul.com/product/DYN008

CSACANNONEER
10-17-2012, 12:36 PM
So maybe I should start with my .22lr and get MORE of the basics down? I want to do an appleseed shoot but every time its in town something happens and I can't make it.

A good 22 and high quality ammo is the best way to learn to shoot better.

postal
10-17-2012, 12:39 PM
What about me can I be new and introduce my self :D

I've been planning on heading out there to try and finally finish my dam hand loads. Then was thinking of taking a match or 2 once I finally got it dialed in a bit.

Everyone is welcome. Just so you know, I started shooting that match maybe 5-6 yrs ago... then dropped out for the longest time. Finally went to a match last month, and ended up last. So... you and I, and the OP can all battle it out for last place.

...and expect to get beat by a 16 yr old girl. Seriously!:) ...Or is Sam (Samantha) 15? I forgot...

postal
10-17-2012, 12:43 PM
I am shooting my lr308 and I am just using cheap ammo, I am running a Nikon buckmaster scope. All the info is great I will check it all out. Thanks guys. Guess maybe I should learn how to reload first? Any classes or clinics for that? I have the ABCs book.

Look at the box for the ammo you use, let us know what it is, and what grain.

I have 2 buckmasters. I hope you have the 4.5-14 with side focus and target knobs, but you can get by with the 3-9.

Reloading lets you make better ammo than factory, cheaper, and shoot better in *your* gun since you experiment with a few variables to find what your gun likes.

If you're near Riverside, I can help you get started reloading.

postal
10-17-2012, 12:54 PM
So maybe I should start with my .22lr and get MORE of the basics down? I want to do an appleseed shoot but every time its in town something happens and I can't make it.

Everyone serious about accurate shooting has at least 1 22. A number of years ago, with the ammo costs out of control, people came up with the idea of shooting a precision bolt rifle style match with 22lr just to keep the costs down. Same concepts, closer ranges- max is usually 200 or 250 yds. They get unpredictable at those ranges.

Me- at the first tactical precision 22 match we know of...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/jxgifford/postal-1.jpg

Full article at 6mmbr.com on the match.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting-skills/rimfire-tactical-precision-match/

postal
10-17-2012, 3:32 PM
Thrillhouse, CK...

Match Director just posted on the CAPRC forum.

Match this sunday the 21st. Check in starts 7:30, match starts at 8:00

Cost $25. and bring 60-80 rounds of ammo (means 80 to be safe)

Get to WEGC (map at wegc.org) once you arrive to the range proper, check with the RO at the main range on your left side, tell him you're there for the match, but dont know where to go. He'll point you down the road- look for the other cars down that road.

If anyone seriously plans on going, please let me know, so the Match Director has an idea of the number of competitors. Or just come out and watch, ask questions.

CK_32
10-17-2012, 4:09 PM
Everyone is welcome. Just so you know, I started shooting that match maybe 5-6 yrs ago... then dropped out for the longest time. Finally went to a match last month, and ended up last. So... you and I, and the OP can all battle it out for last place.

...and expect to get beat by a 16 yr old girl. Seriously!:) ...Or is Sam (Samantha) 15? I forgot...

Hey I'm game I just need to get out and let my baby stretch her legs again.. Just have to stop being lazy and get those loads done one of these weekends.

postal
10-17-2012, 4:29 PM
This sunday might be the last regular monthly match of the year.

Next month is the big annual match (already full- no new entries-and no monthly match)

Dec- jan- who knows- maybe- maybe not. Just sign up on caprc.com and keep checking the monthly match section.

CK_32
10-17-2012, 4:52 PM
Signed up.. Ill keep an eye on it

thrillhouse700
10-17-2012, 11:05 PM
Yes.

Quit accepting the excuses that stop you from attending an appleseed.
Make it a priority above those other things...

My uncle passed away, my aunt passed away and 2 weeks ago my father passed away, it is not really that easy.

ar15barrels
10-18-2012, 10:08 AM
My uncle passed away, my aunt passed away and 2 weeks ago my father passed away, it is not really that easy.

Sorry to hear that.
You might consider switching families because someone in your family sure pissed off the gods...

Saber2Golf
10-18-2012, 1:23 PM
OP, whatever training you receive/don't receive will stick with you. Bad habits/poor form are/is easy to pick up and hard to break out of, so make sure the source of your training is solid. I was in the army for a number of years and shot lots of weapons at lots of varying ranges, and it took getting out and seeing how other people do it to realize some of the army training wasn't so great. One thing that helped me was reading the FBI marksmanship manual. It's geared toward the M-16/AR-15, but a great deal of it is universal, like natural point of aim, breathing, etc. It was a wake-up call that my ego has no place on the firing line, and I need to be open to new ideas regardless of how good I got at shooting while deployed. I can email you the FBI manual as a PDF if you PM me (I don't have a link but I have the file). I wish you luck, and in any case it sounds like you're doing well with your groups. If 300M is no problem for 5.56mm and irons (which it's not), you'll be shooting 600M+ with glass on your .308 :)