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View Full Version : 300 AAC Blackout, thought and feelings?


Schlyme
10-15-2012, 8:29 PM
I just discovered this very interesting thing called a 300 AAC. Now I think I want to build a Blackout AR. I have seen a few barrel choices by length, gas port location and manufacture.

I would like to hear what those of you who already have one, what are your feelings on the options available.

I plan on maybe using it as a pig gun if I ever go boar hunting. Also as my SHTF gun. Mid to short range, say 200 yds tops.

Ok let the games begin :43:

calixt0
10-15-2012, 9:01 PM
I've been interested in the caliber as well. But if you're wanting it for pig hunting a 223 may be enough with the right bullets http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/drt-frangible-223-ammo-vs-charging-wild-boar/ I have nothing to do with this article but found the info very interesting.

locosway
10-15-2012, 9:17 PM
If you aren't running suppressed, then just load heavy 5.56 rounds and call it a day.

77bawls
10-15-2012, 9:19 PM
If you aren't running suppressed, then just load heavy 5.56 rounds and call it a day.

A 5.56 isn't a 30 caliber bullet.

Go for it.

locosway
10-15-2012, 9:20 PM
A 5.56 isn't a 30 caliber bullet.

Go for it.

Really? I had no idea!

bloodhawke83
10-15-2012, 9:23 PM
300 aac blackout is also running back if my mind, there's a local place near me for pig hunting. I say go for it.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

a1c
10-15-2012, 9:24 PM
Just bought a dedicated PSA upper from a Calgunner. Had been considering 300 AAC Blackout for a while because I hunt pigs and this would also be a decent deer-hunting caliber. Had been going back and forth and finally pulled the trigger. Haven't shot it yet, ammo should be here tomorrow, will take it to the range in a few days.

I like that I can easily reform .223 brass and use 30 cal projectiles, and I don't have to upgrade anything else. I think the caliber is here to stay.

starsnuffer
10-15-2012, 9:36 PM
300 blackout is meant to replace the .45 for subgun type purposes, with the ability to use supersonic loads to mimic the effectiveness of 5.56 for short to mid range when needed all out of a SBR platform.

It is not, in any form, an equal to a .308 or even a 6.5/6.8 cartridge.

If you want an AR-15 for hog hunting, go with 6.5 or 6.8. If you plan on moving to a free state and are interested in an SBR or a suppressor (or both) then .300 blackout is a good choice.


-W

bloodhawke83
10-15-2012, 9:37 PM
300 blackout is meant to replace the .45 for subgun type purposes, with the ability to use supersonic loads to mimic the effectiveness of 5.56 for short to mid range when needed all out of a SBR platform.

It is not, in any form, an equal to a .308 or even a 6.5/6.8 cartridge.

If you want an AR-15 for hog hunting, go with 6.5 or 6.8. If you plan on moving to a free state and are interested in an SBR or a suppressor (or both) then .300 blackout is a good choice.


-W

But isn't it a .308 bullet?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

762.DEFENSE
10-15-2012, 9:41 PM
300 blackout is meant to replace the .45 for subgun type purposes, with the ability to use supersonic loads to mimic the effectiveness of 5.56 for short to mid range when needed all out of a SBR platform.

It is not, in any form, an equal to a .308 or even a 6.5/6.8 cartridge.

If you want an AR-15 for hog hunting, go with 6.5 or 6.8. If you plan on moving to a free state and are interested in an SBR or a suppressor (or both) then .300 blackout is a good choice.


-W

Exactly what I was going to say.

I'm building a 6.8SPC for boar hunting myself. Also I wouldn't look into the 300 Blackout unless you plan on reloading.

prerunners4life
10-15-2012, 9:46 PM
Might as well just get a 7.62x39 since u aren't going to suppress it..

DirtRacer151
10-15-2012, 9:48 PM
I recently built a 7.62x40wt which is basically a blackout with a little more powder. I wouldve done blackout except i was having a hard time finding the barrel i wanted. I figured the extra powder in the 7.62x40 is ok since we can't shoot suppressed here anyway. Its supposed to be good for an additional 150fps over the blackout.

My intended use is for a lightweight hunting rifle.
The reason 6.8/6.5 didn't appeal to me was cost of components. It's that simple.
My next AR will be a 6x45 for the exact same reasons.

BTW...the Wilson barrel i ended up with is a tack driver. Easily sub MOA. I took it to our long range practice on saturday to get some DOPE for it and was able to smack our 1 moa 550yd flapper target 7 times out of a full 10 round mag. Not bad considering how much wind we had and the fact that the round goes subsonic at 600. I would definitely recommend them for 300BO or 7.62x40.

bloodhawke83
10-15-2012, 9:51 PM
Might as well just get a 7.62x39 since u aren't going to suppress it..

Crap, forgot about that round.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

77bawls
10-15-2012, 10:20 PM
Might as well just get a 7.62x39 since u aren't going to suppress it..

In an AK sure, not in an AR. The 300 BLK is the easiest way to get 30 caliber out of an AR 15 platform.

CK_32
10-15-2012, 10:27 PM
I feel the AAC is another forum/magazine highlight round that's god like for a few months like the 45 GAP, 10MM and Beowulf it has its uses but is a little over hyped because its new/different but will die out sooner or later and some new kid on the block will come and take its place and so on while tide changes...


But that's not going to sit well so flame suit on..

77bawls
10-15-2012, 10:51 PM
I feel the AAC is another forum/magazine highlight round that's god like for a few months like the 45 GAP, 10MM and Beowulf it has its uses but is a little over hyped because its new/different but will die out sooner or later and some new kid on the block will come and take its place and so on while tide changes...


But that's not going to sit well so flame suit on..

Why would it die out? Because you can shoot a 30 caliber bullet out of an AR 15, because all you need to make one is a barrel, because it's ballistics are better than 7.62x39, because you can make rounds that shoot subsonic or supersonic, or because you can make the brass out of 5.56 which is laying on the ground at every range?

lwlaml
10-16-2012, 12:08 AM
On the latest episode of TacTV, Larry Vickers tested a Daniel Defense M4 in 300BLK, another in 5.56, and an AK back to back for accuracy and penetration. Not the most scientific tests, but bottom line from the show was that the 300BLK lacked the longer range accuracy of the 5.56 and also lacked the penetration/ damage of the 7.62x39.

Lester

Schlyme
10-16-2012, 6:06 AM
I like the idea of not needing anything other then to change the barrel to change the caliber. Keeping commonality with my 223 is a plus. I do plan on getting into making my own loads in the near future.

CK_32
10-16-2012, 6:22 AM
Why would it die out? Because you can shoot a 30 caliber bullet out of an AR 15, because all you need to make one is a barrel, because it's ballistics are better than 7.62x39, because you can make rounds that shoot subsonic or supersonic, or because you can make the brass out of 5.56 which is laying on the ground at every range?

I don't mean due out completely but fade off like the others... Like I said it has their place and I'm pretty sure x39/5.56 is just as readily avalible to pick up brass around the range. But like I said they all have their uses but its a little over hyped because its the new cool thing.

No reason to take it personal just my feelings on it I'm not saying my word is king or that's how it is.. I just have been around here long enough to see when things are being hyped and the trends come and go every other month.

DirtRacer151
10-16-2012, 6:43 AM
I don't mean due out completely but fade off like the others... Like I said it has their place and I'm pretty sure x39/5.56 is just as readily avalible to pick up brass around the range. But like I said they all have their uses but its a little over hyped because its the new cool thing.

No reason to take it personal just my feelings on it I'm not saying my word is king or that's how it is.. I just have been around here long enough to see when things are being hyped and the trends come and go every other month.

What ranges do you shoot at that have brass cased x39 sitting on the ground? Thats a rare find at my local spots.

Listen, everyone bashing it step back and look at it again.
If you want a light weight AR that can hunt with every now and then and you can shoot very cheaply to plink at the range with brass found on the ground and all the same parts you already have on your AR then you go black out. Don't give me this world war crap or zombie apocalypse stuff either. Believe it or not some people actually do shoot their guns instead of talking about how much more lethal their 6.8 is. Well while youre saving your pennies to buy expensive components to feed your 6.8/6.5 ill be off shooting my BO for no more money then it costs to shoot my 5.56...oh and i think ill take it hunting next week if i get bored shooting paper targets. Nobody ever said it was the best. Nobody said it was more powerful then anything else. If you want a cheap to shoot AR that will also destroy a hog shoulder if needed then look into blackout. If you dont want that then why are you even weighing in on the conversation? Its obviously not for everyone. Quit trying to justify the reasons you dont need one and just buy one already...

DarkSoul
10-16-2012, 6:49 AM
I have a 300 blk built on an aero precision monolithic upper with a Wilson barrel, and this is by far my favorite rifle. Since I live in Ca. I run 147g pulled M80 projectiles out of my own cut down brass getting pushed by 18.6g of AA1680 powder for approx. 1800fps., so obviously supersonic as opposed to subs.

Does it have the range of a 5.56, 6.8, 6.5 ? No, but ask yourself how often you shoot outside of 200 yards? If you are more of a long range shooter, yes, one of these other calibers may be a better choice, but if you are working inside of 100 yards, I think you will be hard pressed to beat the 300blk for impact energy.

As for it dying out, well, it has only been getting more popular since its introduction to the gun world, and it seems every month a new ammo manufacturer is releasing 300blk ammo, barrels are almost impossible to get your hands on, most places I have talked to in this regard are back ordered several months.

If you are able to reload, cutting down your own brass is actually pretty easy, and projectiles, well, I don't think you will find a larger selection of new or surplus to suit any and every need, the 6.5, and 6.8, well, usually out of stock, and usually $1 or more a round unless you reload, and even then, still VERY expensive components, I am reloading 300blk for about $.17 a round using milsurp components, and even these are very accurate at 100 yards.

Everyone that has shot my gun, or watched its performance in run and gun comps is pretty much sold on it, if you can beta barrel, go for it, you won't be sorry.

Here is the official info page, check out the specs http://300aacblackout.com/

Eargasm
10-16-2012, 6:52 AM
BTW...the Wilson barrel i ended up with is a tack driver. Easily sub MOA. I took it to our long range practice on saturday to get some DOPE for it and was able to smack our 1 moa 550yd flapper target 7 times out of a full 10 round mag. Not bad considering how much wind we had and the fact that the round goes subsonic at 600. I would definitely recommend them for 300BO or 7.62x40.

I was also looking at the WT round (mostly because everyone is out of reasonably priced 300 BLK barrels).

Assuming you're reloading, what dies are you using for case forming? What are you using to trim?

punisheryayarea
10-16-2012, 6:52 AM
plain and simple it is awesome! BUT having a 5.56 and 300 Blackout is better ;) if you have the funds check out DDM4 V5 300Blackout.

CK_32
10-16-2012, 7:06 AM
It's too early for this ****... :facepalm:

Not sure where the so called "bashings" at but ok I'll have fun with my useless x39 and 5.56. Enjoy that 300 blk.

DirtRacer151
10-16-2012, 7:10 AM
I was also looking at the WT round (mostly because everyone is out of reasonably priced 300 BLK barrels).

Assuming you're reloading, what dies are you using for case forming? What are you using to trim?

Im using the Hornady dies that wilson sells on their website. Also using a forster trimmer chucked up to a drill to cut the cases down.

Im with ya on finding a barrel. Thats the only reason i settled on the 7.62x40wt.

I seriously couldnt be happier with the build. I have 3-223 ARs and an LMT 260 and i honestly think the 7.62x40wt is the most fun to shoot of them all. Its fun to shoot groups with (because it groups so well), its cheap to shoot, and i can take it hunting if i want. Thats more then i can say for all my other ARs. The 223s lack the power and the 260 is just plain to heavy. You wont regret it!

starsnuffer
10-16-2012, 7:25 AM
On the latest episode of TacTV, Larry Vickers tested a Daniel Defense M4 in 300BLK, another in 5.56, and an AK back to back for accuracy and penetration. Not the most scientific tests, but bottom line from the show was that the 300BLK lacked the longer range accuracy of the 5.56 and also lacked the penetration/ damage of the 7.62x39.

Lester

Yep, and the 300blk wasn't designed to be shot out of a 14.5 inch barrel. It was designed to be shot out of a 7-10" barrel. Replay those tests and compare with that barrel length.

This is a modern SUBGUN cartridge, it is not a rifle cartridge. A 9mm bullet is a 30 caliber bullet, but would you hunt hogs with it?

-W

Schlyme
10-16-2012, 8:12 AM
Yep, and the 300blk wasn't designed to be shot out of a 14.5 inch barrel. It was designed to be shot out of a 7-10" barrel. Replay those tests and compare with that barrel length.

This is a modern SUBGUN cartridge, it is not a rifle cartridge. A 9mm bullet is a 30 caliber bullet, but would you hunt hogs with it?

-W

Ok so a 14.5 barrel cut back to 12.5 with a Noveske flaming pig on the end to take it back out to 16 will work. good to know.

Now, pistol or carbine gas port?

:p

edit: as you can see, it will be a BLK. Just trying to figure out MY ideal configuration.

DarkSoul
10-16-2012, 8:32 AM
Ok so a 14.5 barrel cut back to 12.5 with a Noveske flaming pig on the end to take it back out to 16 will work. good to know.

Now, pistol or carbine gas port?

:p

edit: as you can see, it will be a BLK. Just trying to figure out MY ideal configuration.

This is sort of a delicate question, the pressure in a Black is quite low, so you will really need to do some research on what length gas system to run.

I was originally going to cut my Wilson 16" barrel (carbine gas) down to 14" and permanently pin a BABC to get it back to a legal 16", as I mentioned this on another forum, someone warned me that a carbine length gas system will not have enough "dwell" time to properly cycle the gun, and to achieve proper function, I would need to change the gun to a pistol length gas system.

All that being said, I would try and find yourself a barrel with a pistol length gas system to be safe.

Schlyme
10-16-2012, 8:44 AM
I had read something along that line as well. It seems most barrels I'd seen where pistol gas ported. Then again, I could just make it an AR pistol in BLK :D

starsnuffer
10-16-2012, 8:47 AM
AAC uses pistol length in their honey badger. Take that for what it's worth.

-W

Jarhead
10-16-2012, 8:54 AM
Really? I had no idea!

its not ..................5.56 is not .30 ( 7.62 )

whlgun
10-16-2012, 9:02 AM
I don't get the use for this cartridge. I guess I will have to keep looking into it cause I just can't find a use for it. Ill check in on this thread to see others opinions on this round.

mif_slim
10-16-2012, 9:08 AM
I like it because I can shoot lead cast bullets thru it! At .005cents a bullet, another .03 for primer, .03 for powder. At~.07 cent per pop its plenty of shooting for me!

Jarhead
10-16-2012, 9:09 AM
http://300aacblackout.com/

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/07/foghorn/ammunition-review-300-aac-blackout/

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2010/09/29/300-aac-blackout-new-caliber-new-mission/

starsnuffer
10-16-2012, 9:52 AM
I don't get the use for this cartridge. I guess I will have to keep looking into it cause I just can't find a use for it. Ill check in on this thread to see others opinions on this round.

Did you read the thread?

The point of the cartridge is to enable a single platform to be able to fire both subsonic surpressed at CQB ranges and supersonic at mid (up to 200M) ranges without the need to change anything except the ammo/magazine . . . all out of a compact SBR platform.

The point is to replace the need for operators to carry both a .45 or 4.6x30mm suppressed subgun and an M4 to accomplish a mission and instead carry a single platform cable of performing both missions adequately.

Now, if you're asking what the point of a civilian in California using the cartridge, then you have a valid point.

-W

bonesurf
10-16-2012, 9:54 AM
My 16" .300blk uses a carbine length system. No problems. But I dunno what happens if you go shorter barrel

DirtRacer151
10-16-2012, 11:03 AM
Did you read the thread?


Now, if you're asking what the point of a civilian in California using the cartridge, then you have a valid point.

-W

That's been covered in this thread as well...

Aceman58
10-16-2012, 11:15 AM
I too am interested in the 300 BLKOUT, I like the fact that it uses the AR15 5.56 parts and gives the AR15 platform a heavier bullet for close and medium range. I think it's a bullet looking for a home at this moment. Ammo is expensive but if this caliber catches on may come down in price. I'm building one and want to add this to my other 3 ARs. If I like it I will do my own reloading to cut cost on the ammo. I'll post some pic's as the build goes.

jwkincal
10-16-2012, 11:28 AM
I'm getting a 300 BLK upper eventually... not to run the 220g subsonic loads, nor to run the 125g high-velocity loads either.

I'm going to run the heavy supersonic stuff (170-190g) and it will replace my .30-30; I can use the same bullets as I do for the .30-06 and the same powder as the .357 (which will be the new levergun)

But yeah, it is a niche cartridge for sure. If all I had was a 5.56 AR, I probably wouldn't even consider it (just load the heavy .223 bullets as one poster said earlier).

You can never have too many guns, though... so buy away! :yes:

DarkSoul
10-16-2012, 11:31 AM
For what its worth, here is the load up I am using, its shooting at 1900 FPS with 1200 pounds of energy.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/DarkSoulracing/300loadup.png

The one thing I will say, is that since you have your case volume about maxed out, and starting to get a bit toasty, you need to keep your ammo out of direct sun/heat, or you could creep into an overpressure situation.

I use this loadup pretty much exclusively here in Nor Cal, and am very happy with it.

ExtremeX
10-16-2012, 11:37 AM
For a while I never really saw the appeal for the 300BLK, but I warmed up to it a little…

I would consider 300BLK in an AR pistol configuration, short barrel close range... don’t care much for it in the rifle configuration... way too many other calibers to choose from that would better suited to the type of shooting I like to do.

3006mv
10-16-2012, 12:50 PM
OP I've had the M1Sales 300-221 Fireball years before the 300AAC Blackout has been around, it has the 16.5" carbine, carbine position gas block opened up to max, I have had no issues w/ this weapon. I beleive this configuration works best w/o issues. It uses stock rifle buffer and spring; maybe I just got lucky w/ this one. I would say get one of these.

Even if the Blackout doesn't hang around, I don't care, I will still use mine b/c Lee came out w/ a mold I got from midwayusa, I worked out the kinks and can now shoot for cheaper than my 5.56 b/c I get free WW lead. I don't own an AK but I believe I shoot cheaper than that avail ammo. I hunt w/ my .30.30, maybe someday i will get a supressor but for a bolt action in 300 whatever. Maybe some day I will cast .223 w/ gas checks but why bother.

Jason_2111
10-16-2012, 1:19 PM
Why 300 BLK? Simple, because 6.5 and 6.8 are too damn expensive to shoot in any kind of quantity.

Take your 6.8 to a 4 day intensive carbine class... then spend the next 6 months eating top ramen for dinner every day. ;)

russ69
10-16-2012, 2:44 PM
I have both a 300 blackout and a 6.8 SPC (more than one). The 300BLKOUT is a fun little cartridge but it shoots at a low velocity. Most 30 caliber hunting bullets may not perform very well at such low speeds. These bullets are designed for cartridges in the 308 WIN speed class. The 6.8 SPC however is a much more powerful cartridge and has had good hunting results on pigs and dear.
I understand the desire to have a 30 cal bullet but you need enough powder to get it up to speed for the available bullets and the little 300 BLKOUT cartridge case is just too small.

Chewbaca
10-16-2012, 3:39 PM
I'd rather shoot my 7.62x39 ar ! Same size round , but not 20$ a box of 20 !!! More like 3.99$ for 20 !

ExtremeX
10-16-2012, 4:11 PM
I'd rather shoot my 7.62x39 ar ! Same size round , but not 20$ a box of 20 !!! More like 3.99$ for 20 !

I’m sure most people who get it will eventually end up reloading for it, and be reloading it for less than you buy steel cased 7.62x39.. mif slim for example is knocking em out at $1.40/20 with casting work…

Brass for the 300 BLK is plentiful and easy to make as its parent cartridge is .223/5.56, plus finding all the other parts for the upper is as easy as shopping for anything else 5.56. Not so much for the 7.62x39 AR….

a1c
10-16-2012, 4:30 PM
I have both a 300 blackout and a 6.8 SPC (more than one). The 300BLKOUT is a fun little cartridge but it shoots at a low velocity. Most 30 caliber hunting bullets may not perform very well at such low speeds. These bullets are designed for cartridges in the 308 WIN speed class. The 6.8 SPC however is a much more powerful cartridge and has had good hunting results on pigs and dear.
I understand the desire to have a 30 cal bullet but you need enough powder to get it up to speed for the available bullets and the little 300 BLKOUT cartridge case is just too small.

I'm sure for long range 6.8 SPC performs better, but then again when I hunt pigs they're generally within 75 yards.

Hot Holster
10-16-2012, 5:12 PM
I have 2 300 Blk's in 16" configurations, one rigged for night hog hunting, and one for daytime hog hunting. I'm currently in the process of getting my tax stamp for a 9.5" SBR upper and I have a YHM titanium suppressor on order. I'll use the SBR when I'm hunting from a stand near a feeder.

These aren't the only rifles I have but they are ideal for me while hog hunting. My longest shot so far has been about 150 yards and the pig dropped dead. Most shots have been 1n the 45 to 80 yard range and I don't have any expectations of taking a 200 yard shot so I don't need the added expense of a 6.8 or any other caliber, nor do I expect to hunt anything other than hogs or maybe a deer once in a while.

The same mags fit my 300 blk as well as my .223's, the same bcg's fit both as well. I buy different ammo and I shoot whichever one is on the menu other than hunting, then it's the 300 blackouts.

Ammo is becoming readily available and since I don't reload I look for the best prices. So far $10.60/20 is the best I have found which is good considering when the round first came out they were $19.99/20. My hunting rounds depending on Nosler ballistics or Barnes black tip run from $28-$32 for 20.

The 300Blk has become my favorite at home, hunting, and at the range. It is not on the market to replace or take away from another caliber. It fills the needs and wants of some shooters, hunters, collectors, etc. As a shooter and hunter, I enjoy the availability of another caliber to choose from that is adaptable to my AR's, so I'm at a loss as to why there is so much anti for the round, especially from the 6.8 crowd.

DirtRacer151
10-16-2012, 9:55 PM
^ well said

I guess most guys are skipping over the reasoning in this thread and just drawing their own conclusions instead.

GettoPhilosopher
10-16-2012, 11:22 PM
I'm surprised how many people are saying they can't find barrels. A quick Google search turns up 11 different 300 BLK barrels in stock at Midway, 2 at DS Arms, a few at DSG Arms, a few at Rainier, etc.

DannyInSoCal
10-16-2012, 11:41 PM
I debated the 300BH - But chose the 6.8 (.270) SPC II instead.

1) More ammo choices
2) Cheaper ammo choices
3) Splits the 5.56 & 7.62

Great hunting round in 110gr - Boar, big horn, deer, etc......

skale240
10-17-2012, 6:57 AM
I have 2 300 Blk's in 16" configurations, one rigged for night hog hunting, and one for daytime hog hunting. I'm currently in the process of getting my tax stamp for a 9.5" SBR upper and I have a YHM titanium suppressor on order. I'll use the SBR when I'm hunting from a stand near a feeder.

These aren't the only rifles I have but they are ideal for me while hog hunting. My longest shot so far has been about 150 yards and the pig dropped dead. Most shots have been 1n the 45 to 80 yard range and I don't have any expectations of taking a 200 yard shot so I don't need the added expense of a 6.8 or any other caliber, nor do I expect to hunt anything other than hogs or maybe a deer once in a while.

The same mags fit my 300 blk as well as my .223's, the same bcg's fit both as well. I buy different ammo and I shoot whichever one is on the menu other than hunting, then it's the 300 blackouts.

Ammo is becoming readily available and since I don't reload I look for the best prices. So far $10.60/20 is the best I have found which is good considering when the round first came out they were $19.99/20. My hunting rounds depending on Nosler ballistics or Barnes black tip run from $28-$32 for 20.

The 300Blk has become my favorite at home, hunting, and at the range. It is not on the market to replace or take away from another caliber. It fills the needs and wants of some shooters, hunters, collectors, etc. As a shooter and hunter, I enjoy the availability of another caliber to choose from that is adaptable to my AR's, so I'm at a loss as to why there is so much anti for the round, especially from the 6.8 crowd.

I agree with Hot.

OP if you haven't already, check out 300blktalk.com. I found a lot more useful info over there. I've found that a lot of threads here about 300blk have a lot of FUD. As of late it's been getting better but like what Hot Holster says, there still is a lot of anti for the round.

I myself own a CMMG 16" barrel and am pretty satisfied with it. My next build will be 300blk in an AR pistol configuration.

Schlyme
10-17-2012, 7:12 AM
I agree with Hot.

OP if you haven't already, check out 300blktalk.com. I found a lot more useful info over there. I've found that a lot of threads here about 300blk have a lot of FUD. As of late it's been getting better but like what Hot Holster says, there still is a lot of anti for the round.

I myself own a CMMG 16" barrel and am pretty satisfied with it. My next build will be 300blk in an AR pistol configuration.

I did check out the site. That's what sold me on the round. From the discutions here I'm trying to decide what way I will go with the build :43: I have been wanting an AR pistol for a while but I'm still undecided as to weather my first 300BLK will be pistol or carbine.

How about some current owners post pics to help me decide :p
Pics always make threads better after all!

edit: for all the 6.8 fans, have no fear, I will most likely end up building one of those as well :o I really need to win the lottery to be able to buy all the firearms I want lol

bonesurf
10-17-2012, 7:23 AM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/17/a4y8apeg.jpg
With the tripower which I changed to an accupoint
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/17/equjyhy2.jpg

I am going to have Randall (ar15barrels) cut down to overall 16" length once I get my new flashhider

DirtRacer151
10-17-2012, 7:49 AM
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo36/dirtracer151/2012-10-10_17-59-06_236.jpg

FFShooter23
10-17-2012, 8:40 AM
http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq244/PJayMen/DSC03583.jpg

joelogic
10-17-2012, 8:43 AM
Left, 110gr Frangible
Right, 150gr FMJ

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m353/joelogic/wdf054.jpg

I dont know if a $99 pistol barrel is going to push anyone over the edge but that is one good deal.
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=81014

DarkSoul
10-17-2012, 9:33 AM
Left, 110gr Frangible
Right, 150gr FMJ

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m353/joelogic/wdf054.jpg

I dont know if a $99 pistol barrel is going to push anyone over the edge but that is one good deal.
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=81014

Hey Joe, where di you pick up the frangibles?

joelogic
10-17-2012, 9:35 AM
Hitech ammo but they are sold out. :(

DarkHorse
10-18-2012, 3:38 PM
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt13/DarkHorse_bucket/Firearms/IMG_0158-1.jpg

ExtremeX
10-18-2012, 3:51 PM
nice pistol... I would be all over that in 300 BLK

jwkincal
11-06-2012, 7:51 AM
Update: and a bit of a necro, I'm afraid...

Last weekend at the range I performed a barrier penetration test using HDY 75gn TAP .223 vs. Rem Cor-lokt 170gn SPRN in .30-30 (a trifle higher in ME than the 300BLK would be but close enough for engineering purposes)

The test media was a laminated sandwich of tile-backer 5/8" cement board between sheets of 5/8" OSB. After defeating this barrier, the rounds' penetration into a stack of books (Microsoft programming books :chris:) was measured. I fired a series of three test rounds from each cartridge at a distance of 50 meters.

Result: The performance of these cartridges was statistically indistinguishable! Without looking at the entry holes, the samples were impossible to tell apart from one another. The penetration depth was (within single-digit percentiles) identical for the two cartridges.

So... contrary to what I said earlier in the thread, I will NOT be acquiring a 300 BLK upper unless I stumble upon a big sack of money.

If you are able to run a can, it is probably the best choice you can make. If you are looking for better performance without changing mags or bolt faces/carriers... then the folks advocating for the heavier .223/5.56 bullets are on the right track.

But, OP... buy one! You can never have too many guns/uppers!

joelogic
11-06-2012, 8:33 AM
But 77gr SMK bullets are twice as expensive as 150gr pulled FMJ bullets. :(

jwkincal
11-06-2012, 8:51 AM
But 77gr SMK bullets are twice as expensive as 150gr pulled FMJ bullets. :(

Sure but it ain't the range load (for the 5.56) anyway... heck, .223/5.56 is cheap enough that I'll only reload when I'm making the heavy rounds (those retail for a buck apiece loaded).

zomie
11-06-2012, 9:19 AM
I am getting 2100fps with a 147 m80 bullet with H110. I just have a cheap $200 AR stoner barrel (ER Shaw) and the damn this is extremely precise:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8198/8152318997_91c7341d25_z.jpg

technique
11-06-2012, 10:15 AM
I may have to try H110, but I'm using 150gr. I'd like to break 2000FPS.

mariley85
11-06-2012, 3:22 PM
I like it because I can shoot lead cast bullets thru it! At .005cents a bullet, another .03 for primer, .03 for powder. At~.07 cent per pop its plenty of shooting for me!

Exactly.

Also, the 300BLK isn't THAT expensive anymore to shoot if you're using factory loads. Since freedom group owns both AAC and Remington, Rem has been making 300BLK and I've seen it for sale around $11/box, which isn't THAT bad.

If anything, you can just buy a 300BLK barrel and swap it out whenever you want because everything else in a standard 5.56 AR is exactly the same.

k1dude
11-06-2012, 5:54 PM
As a shooter and hunter, I enjoy the availability of another caliber to choose from that is adaptable to my AR's, so I'm at a loss as to why there is so much anti for the round, especially from the 6.8 crowd.

For some reason, 6.8 SPC shooters are one of the most rabidly vocal groups out there that do nothing but insult most other calibers. Watch them jump in and destroy 6.5 Grendel threads. I would lump them in the same category as Apple, Glock, and 1911 fanboys. It's especially interesting since the cartridge itself is somewhat unremarkable in anything but an SBR.

Rorge Retson
11-06-2012, 6:32 PM
...the cartridge itself is somewhat unremarkable in anything but an SBR.
I dare you to go over there and say that...

donw
11-06-2012, 6:58 PM
FWIW...IMO...an ar15 in 6.8 or 6.9 or an ar10 in 7.62x51 would yeild as much, if not more versatility.

as said by others, the .300 ACC and .300 Blackout are designed for very close quarters...some having fps rating as low as 500 fps..

the NRA's american rifleman did an article/comparison on it recently...some loads had difficulty cycling the actions...some were not really as accurate as one might be lead to believe yeilding as much as a 4" group at 100 yards

they are NOT the same round as some assert.

for "Pumpkin chunkin" big pieces of lead at close ranges, i use my 870 with 3" mag slugs...437.5 grain slugs at 1400 fps=:yes:

Aceman58
11-06-2012, 8:49 PM
Another PRO for the .300 BLK is for home defense, this caliber has the weight of a 9mm but the velocity of a 5.56, and in CQB that means "One hell of a stopping power". It can now make the AR15 .300 your grab for home defense gun. The AR15 5.56 really over penetrates thus our SWAT team would use MP5s. Isn't it nice that you can carry one rifle and just swap light ammo to heavy ammo using the same gun for different applications at hand, CQB with the heavy loads, criminal runs, and then light loads for the medium distance... Love this load.. Might have found a home with me at least..

locosway
11-06-2012, 8:50 PM
Another PRO for the .300 BLK is for home defense, this caliber has the weight of a 9mm but the velocity of a 5.56, and in CQB that means "One hell of a stopping power". It can now make the AR15 .300 your grab for home defense gun. The AR15 5.56 really over penetrates thus our SWAT team would use MP5s. Isn't it nice that you can carry one rifle and just swap light ammo to heavy ammo using the same gun for different applications at hand, CQB with the heavy loads, criminal runs, and then light loads for the medium distance... Love this load.. Might have found a home with me at least..

Your post goes against every modern ballistic test.

Bhobbs
11-06-2012, 10:16 PM
Another PRO for the .300 BLK is for home defense, this caliber has the weight of a 9mm but the velocity of a 5.56, and in CQB that means "One hell of a stopping power". It can now make the AR15 .300 your grab for home defense gun. The AR15 5.56 really over penetrates thus our SWAT team would use MP5s. Isn't it nice that you can carry one rifle and just swap light ammo to heavy ammo using the same gun for different applications at hand, CQB with the heavy loads, criminal runs, and then light loads for the medium distance... Love this load.. Might have found a home with me at least..

Since when is low to mid 2000 fps range the same as 3000 plus fps?

zomie
11-07-2012, 1:18 AM
Since when is low to mid 2000 fps range the same as 3000 plus fps?

You can push a 110 gr bullet at about 2400 fps. I agree though there is a big difference between 3000 fps :)

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Still this is getting real close to a 30-30's performance.

Aceman58
11-07-2012, 5:52 AM
For those who don't believe:
Advanced Armament Corporation, AAC, has established a reputation for pushing the “innovation envelope.” Last year, AAC, in partnership with Remington, designed a .30-caliber cartridge for the M4 platform. The .300 AAC Blackout met several key requirements, including using the standard M4/M16 bolt assembly and magazine. In less than 18 months, the cartridge has been SAAMI approved, manufactured, and is in the hands of users. In the process, it has also attracted the attention of law enforcement and military units.

The .300 AAC BLK cartridge was specifically developed for the CQB environment and suppressed use. The subsonic 220-grain load offers significant improvement in terminal ballistics over traditional 9mm loads. The .300 AAC Blackout also gives the user the option of using the 125-grain supersonic match ammunition for engagements at extended ranges, something the 9mm round does not have.

don't know what modern ballistic test you're refering to... I think the .300 is still looking for a home in LEO and military, but it holds promise. Again just my opinion...

a1c
11-07-2012, 7:39 AM
Here is a good write-up:

Shades of Gray: .300 Whisper & .300 AAC Blackout
There is a great deal of confusion regarding these two similar cartridges with different names. But how did they develop, and how similar are they?
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/shades-of-gray/

duc748bip
11-07-2012, 10:25 AM
Don't need to get new mag and bolt for 300BLK
I only think there is no need for Subsonic round if you are not running a can.

Might as well just get a 7.62x39 since u aren't going to suppress it..

bonesurf
11-07-2012, 10:35 AM
Also correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 7.62x39 AR associated with broken bolts and feeding problems? You don't get that with 300 blk

Aceman58
11-07-2012, 2:08 PM
Correct, Bonesurf, the .300 uses the same case head and cartridge taper.. this minimizes strain on the AR's bolt.

Velocity from a 16" barrel for a 125 grain bullet at 300 yards is 2215fps, energy is 690 ft-lbs. Not bad for a 30 cal. bullet at med. range. Something the military is looking at for our boys in Afghan maybe.. It's not the perfect round by far, but I enjoy shooting this round over my 5.56 now a days...

joelogic
11-07-2012, 2:11 PM
125gr @ 2215fps is 1343 lb/ft or am I doing something wrong?
http://billstclair.com/energy.html

Aceman58
11-07-2012, 2:21 PM
I believe you're correct at 100 yards but at 300 yards I think it drops to 690 ft-lbs.. Now I got to do the math.... thanks for making smoke come out of my ears......

GettoPhilosopher
11-09-2012, 12:22 AM
He's probably referring to the fact that 55gr M193 is actually one of the LOWEST overpenetrating rounds (it frags going through barriers), which is part of the reason LEOs have switched to ARs FROM the MP5.

Or were you referring to something else Greg?

For those who don't believe:
Advanced Armament Corporation, AAC, has established a reputation for pushing the “innovation envelope.” Last year, AAC, in partnership with Remington, designed a .30-caliber cartridge for the M4 platform. The .300 AAC Blackout met several key requirements, including using the standard M4/M16 bolt assembly and magazine. In less than 18 months, the cartridge has been SAAMI approved, manufactured, and is in the hands of users. In the process, it has also attracted the attention of law enforcement and military units.

The .300 AAC BLK cartridge was specifically developed for the CQB environment and suppressed use. The subsonic 220-grain load offers significant improvement in terminal ballistics over traditional 9mm loads. The .300 AAC Blackout also gives the user the option of using the 125-grain supersonic match ammunition for engagements at extended ranges, something the 9mm round does not have.

don't know what modern ballistic test you're refering to... I think the .300 is still looking for a home in LEO and military, but it holds promise. Again just my opinion...



Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

locosway
11-09-2012, 12:26 AM
He's probably referring to the fact that 55gr M193 is actually one of the LOWEST overpenetrating rounds (it frags going through barriers), which is part of the reason LEOs have switched to ARs FROM the MP5.

Or were you referring to something else Greg?





Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Forgot about this thread. No, you're correct.

Schlyme
11-09-2012, 8:40 AM
Let me throw a monkey wrench into the argument :43: carbine or pistol gas post?
From what I have read both in the AAC site and the American Rifleman article, I'm thinking I'll probably go with a pistol gas post with an adjustable gas block.
Why the h**l do I want to do that for(sorry if I beat you to the question)
My reason, subsonic has issues cycling the bcg in a carbine gas system, and if I'm right in my understanding, supersonic can overpressure the pistol system.
If my understanding is incorrect, I ask that you please be kind in correcting me lol.
And why do I want to go back and forth, Sub for HD, Super for pig hunting!!!!

Then again I could just have one of each :facepalm:

a1c
11-09-2012, 8:57 AM
The buffer does matter. If you're using the same lower for those two uppers, you might want to switch the buffer to something lighter/heavier.

GettoPhilosopher
11-09-2012, 9:23 AM
The buffer does matter. If you're using the same lower for those two uppers, you might want to switch the buffer to something lighter/heavier.

The whole point though is being able to run both without needing to reconfigure the gun or adjust the gas block.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

a1c
11-09-2012, 10:47 AM
The whole point though is being able to run both without needing to reconfigure the gun or adjust the gas block.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Switching the buffer takes seconds.

You should try different weights and see which one allows you to cycle both uppers reliably.

Schlyme
11-09-2012, 12:08 PM
I never had thought about switching buffers. such an easy switch too. I may just leave sub ammo for the AR pistol I want to build hopefully this coming year from an 80% lower.

Aceman58
11-11-2012, 9:50 AM
Check this out, by Robert S. Silvers and AAC, good overview for the .300 BLK... I found it very interesting:


http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012armaments/Wednesday13590Silvers.pdf

lwlaml
11-11-2012, 11:04 AM
Nice article. Thanks for posting.


Check this out, by Robert S. Silvers and AAC, good overview for the .300 BLK... I found it very interesting:


http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012armaments/Wednesday13590Silvers.pdf

Rorge Retson
11-11-2012, 5:32 PM
Check this out, by Robert S. Silvers and AAC, good overview for the .300 BLK... I found it very interesting:


http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012armaments/Wednesday13590Silvers.pdf

Very nice, thanks. :)

Having a little trouble deciphering optimum barrel length, though, from Page 23....can you help?

Aceman58
11-11-2012, 6:53 PM
Not sure what you mean by page 23, regarding barrel lenght. What is the question on optimun barrel lenght. The .300 has good numbers with a short barrel and subsonic heavy rounds, and with a quick mag change, you're good up to 300m with 115 or 147gr rounds, accurate as well for a SBR...

On the page with heading "Barrel Length Comparisons", they explain real simple the fps, ft0-lbs comparing it from a 5.56 M193 to a .300 BLK 110 gr. Barnes..

Again, the effective operating range of the .300 in the real world is up to about 300m, as stated in the flip chart. If you want to reach out and hit the 1000m range, you need to think of another caliber or rifle, there is just not enough power in the 5.56 case to push that 30 cal in the sniping range. I work in the real world range and built my .300 for just that 0 to 300m. To me that is where the fun is at..(also job)..

This flip chart was created by Robert S. Silvers and AAC, so it will promote the caliber so what but what is nice it this is not a sales pitch, it could be, but it shows the strengths and the limitation of the .300. So although not the cure all caliber, it has the promise for good performance in the range designed for, real world 0 to 300m. It's a great caliber to play with for me.. I also notice several other 30 cal. coming out looking for a home, 7.63X40 (Wilson Combat) and the 6.5 and 6.8... Happy shooting..

bonesurf
11-12-2012, 7:19 AM
Very nice, thanks. :)

Having a little trouble deciphering optimum barrel length, though, from Page 23....can you help?

By no means an expert but for Cali practical purposes. Going from 16-14 had a negligible effect. About 70 ft/lbs of energy. A 13" .300 had same energy as 20" m193. Somewhere between 9-10" .300 had energy of 14" m193

scobun
11-12-2012, 4:12 PM
Check this out, by Robert S. Silvers and AAC, good overview for the .300 BLK... I found it very interesting:


http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012armaments/Wednesday13590Silvers.pdf

That is AAC sales literature on an AAC product.

The 300 Blackout is a ballistic loser in the real world. It does nothing well EXCEPT as a subsonic round out of an SBR where you run a suppressor. A 200m max range on a rifle round is pathetic. The 300 Blackout is a great SBR round, but if you aren't using it for that, it makes little sense. A 6.8, 6.5 or even 5.56 with 77gr SMK rounds are vastly superior out of a 16in barrel for every purpose. All those rounds will be more accurate, penetrate more deeply, drop less, and buck the wind better.

You can shoot light bullets with a horrible sectional density (lack penetration) and low ballistic coefficient (will get kicked around by the wind) going slowly, or a heavy bullet at a subsonic velocity that are not going to be accurate past 100 yards. Those are not exactly great qualities to have in a rifle round.

jellybill
11-12-2012, 4:45 PM
That is AAC sales literature on an AAC product.

The 300 Blackout is a ballistic loser in the real world. It does nothing well EXCEPT as a subsonic round out of an SBR where you run a suppressor. A 200m max range on a rifle round is pathetic.

What the FUD are you talking about? :TFH:

Quiet Action: able to run a SBR (in free states) with a can, slinging out 220 GRAIN GIANT bullets at hush hush noise levels ACCURATELY out to 200 meters (MP5SD is only accurate out to 50 meters, 8 or 9 MOA, yeah, that's right).

Go Loud: able to, with just a switch of different magazine in your pouch, in the same SBR with the same can still on, suddenly shoot out super sonic rounds anywhere from 115 to 170 GRAIN (try that with a 5.56) that will be accurate out to 300 meters easily (350 meters if you're a decent shot). And at 350 meters, a 147 grain 300blk STILL HAS THE SAME ENERGY AS A 308 AT 650 METERS. Any game a 308 can take, the 300 blackout can take within 350 meters!



ALL THIS IN A CARBINE CONFIGURATION AND WEIGHT WITH SUB 16 INCH BARREL!!!




Try doing that with a 5.56 to a bear :rolleyes:



The 300 Blackout is a great SBR round, but if you aren't using it for that, it makes little sense.
Why would someone who lives in a free state not use for that?

A hot date is a great thing, but if you're not going to get intimate and marry her, it makes little sense.

A fast car is a great thing, but if you're not going to drive it, it makes little sense.

What's your point? Why would someone NOT use it in a SBR with a can in a free state?


A 6.8, 6.5 or even 5.56 with 77gr SMK rounds are vastly superior out of a 16in barrel for every purpose.

The 300 blackout has the same energy from a 9 inch barrel as does the 5.56 have from a 16 inch barrel.

Think about that. Now, why would somebody carry around and extra 7 inch of barrel when they can get the same energy from a 9 inch blackout barrel in a free state?

And even if I should overlook your rambling nonsense, you're still not making sense.

Can you suppress a 5.56 or 6.8 or 6.5 in a 16 inch barrel? CAN YOU SUPPRESS THEM IN ANY BARREL LENGTH in an AR configuration?

:no:

So exaggerating a bit with that "every purpose" part, ain't you?




All those rounds will be more accurate, penetrate more deeply, drop less, and buck the wind better.

Yes they will, that's the ONE and ONLY thing they do better than the 300 blackout. But since that is what your only criteria is, since you mostly engage targets from 350 meters to 850 meters more often than within 350 meters, the best gun for you would be a 50 barret then?

If long range energy delivery is the concern here, why would anybody choose the 5.56, 6.5, 6.8, or the 300blk?? All those rounds are inferior to the 308 in a bolt action.

The 300blk in a carbine configuration, WITHIN 350 yards, is superior to the 6.5, 6.8, and 5.56 because it can shoot quietly or go loud with just a switch of the magazine. If you want to jump to long range, than all these choices would be moot, SO WHY COMPARE THEM IN LONG RANGE when 308 bolt action makes the most sense?



You can shoot light bullets with a horrible sectional density (lack penetration) and low ballistic coefficient (will get kicked around by the wind) going slowly, or a heavy bullet at a subsonic velocity that are not going to be accurate past 100 yards. Those are not exactly great qualities to have in a rifle round.

Uh... the 220 grain subsonic is accurate out to 200 yards, as long as you have a scope that has enough BDC to measure the drop at the distance. Handloads come in at 2 moa or SUB moa!

Aceman58
11-12-2012, 5:42 PM
Jellybill, no really tell me how you feel!.... I agree with you the .300 BLK is a very interesting round that I have found to be fun to shoot, play with and enjoy this caliber from the AR platform.
I remember when I was young back in the 70s, I purchased my first handgun, Browning Hi-Power 9mm. And they had a kit, 41 A.E., new barrel and spring and you can shoot .41 caliber out of the Hi-Power. Funny how that cartridge didn't become popular.. Fast forward to the 90s and the 40 caliber is now king.. Go figure...
I enjoy hearing other opinions good or bad, but it's still nice to hear it out in a forum. We all have different backgrounds, experiences, professions and sports, and styles of shooting as well. So time will tell if the .300 becomes the caliber for the AR15.... I'm sold...

tuna quesadilla
11-12-2012, 5:58 PM
For some reason, 6.8 SPC shooters are one of the most rabidly vocal groups out there that do nothing but insult most other calibers. Watch them jump in and destroy 6.5 Grendel threads. I would lump them in the same category as Apple, Glock, and 1911 fanboys. It's especially interesting since the cartridge itself is somewhat unremarkable in anything but an SBR.

I have no dog in the fight because I never have and never will own an AR in anything other than 5.56x45mm NATO, but I too have found the above to be true in caliber discussion threads.

jgraham15
11-12-2012, 7:34 PM
What the FUD are you talking about? :TFH:

Quiet Action: able to run a SBR (in free states) with a can, slinging out 220 GRAIN GIANT bullets at hush hush noise levels ACCURATELY out to 200 meters (MP5SD is only accurate out to 50 meters, 8 or 9 MOA, yeah, that's right).

Go Loud: able to, with just a switch of different magazine in your pouch, in the same SBR with the same can still on, suddenly shoot out super sonic rounds anywhere from 115 to 170 GRAIN (try that with a 5.56) that will be accurate out to 300 meters easily (350 meters if you're a decent shot). And at 350 meters, a 147 grain 300blk STILL HAS THE SAME ENERGY AS A 308 AT 650 METERS. Any game a 308 can take, the 300 blackout can take within 350 meters!



ALL THIS IN A CARBINE CONFIGURATION AND WEIGHT WITH SUB 16 INCH BARREL!!!




Try doing that with a 5.56 to a bear :rolleyes:




Why would someone who lives in a free state not use for that?

A hot date is a great thing, but if you're not going to get intimate and marry her, it makes little sense.

A fast car is a great thing, but if you're not going to drive it, it makes little sense.

What's your point? Why would someone NOT use it in a SBR with a can in a free state?




The 300 blackout has the same energy from a 9 inch barrel as does the 5.56 have from a 16 inch barrel.

Think about that. Now, why would somebody carry around and extra 7 inch of barrel when they can get the same energy from a 9 inch blackout barrel in a free state?

And even if I should overlook your rambling nonsense, you're still not making sense.

Can you suppress a 5.56 or 6.8 or 6.5 in a 16 inch barrel? CAN YOU SUPPRESS THEM IN ANY BARREL LENGTH in an AR configuration?

:no:

So exaggerating a bit with that "every purpose" part, ain't you?






Yes they will, that's the ONE and ONLY thing they do better than the 300 blackout. But since that is what your only criteria is, since you mostly engage targets from 350 meters to 850 meters more often than within 350 meters, the best gun for you would be a 50 barret then?

If long range energy delivery is the concern here, why would anybody choose the 5.56, 6.5, 6.8, or the 300blk?? All those rounds are inferior to the 308 in a bolt action.

The 300blk in a carbine configuration, WITHIN 350 yards, is superior to the 6.5, 6.8, and 5.56 because it can shoot quietly or go loud with just a switch of the magazine. If you want to jump to long range, than all these choices would be moot, SO WHY COMPARE THEM IN LONG RANGE when 308 bolt action makes the most sense?





Uh... the 220 grain subsonic is accurate out to 200 yards, as long as you have a scope that has enough BDC to measure the drop at the distance. Handloads come in at 2 moa or SUB moa!


I actually feel dumber having read your post.

Your logic simply amazes me.

BUT at least I got a good laugh out of it.

Lets see. Lets take a .223 case and shorten it to reduce case capacity. Then lets cram a big @ss bullet in it which will reduce case capacity some more. Then we'll say it is superior to the 6.5, 6.8 and 5.56 within 350 yards because it has the potential to shoot quieter. Some sound f****in logic to me.

jellybill
11-12-2012, 8:02 PM
I actually feel dumber having read your post.

Your logic simply amazes me.

BUT at least I got a good laugh out of it.

Lets see. Lets take a .223 case and shorten it to reduce case capacity. Then lets cram a big @ss bullet in it which will reduce case capacity some more. Then we'll say it is superior to the 6.5, 6.8 and 5.56 within 350 yards because it has the potential to shoot quieter. Some sound f****in logic to me.

Strawman attack won't work unless you put some effort into it, little guy.

Rorge Retson
11-12-2012, 8:10 PM
:popcorn:

jgraham15
11-12-2012, 8:20 PM
Strawman attack won't work unless you put some effort into it, little guy. You must be one of those guys who voted for that guy....

You are exactly the reason why most of the knowledgable people have left this forum.

You have 8 posts and you are THE expert. Well, good luck with that. I don't care what you waste your money on. I just needed to point out a simple fact for the people who might actually regard your post as being accurate information. It is not.

Bhobbs
11-12-2012, 8:39 PM
The 300blk in a carbine configuration, WITHIN 350 yards, is superior to the 6.5, 6.8, and 5.56 because it can shoot quietly or go loud with just a switch of the magazine. If you want to jump to long range, than all these choices would be moot, SO WHY COMPARE THEM IN LONG RANGE when 308 bolt action makes the most sense?


In what way is the 6.5 Grendel out of an AR15 no good for long range?

BucDan
11-13-2012, 8:16 AM
I don't want to sound like a fan boy, but Travis Haley just released a new video blog about the 300blackout

http://haleystrategic.com/blog.php

Rorge Retson
11-13-2012, 9:01 AM
I don't want to sound like a fan boy, but Travis Haley just released a new video blog about the 300blackout

http://haleystrategic.com/blog.php

I am interested in the round, so I am not a basher, but this guy sounds like a bad salesman and not objective in the least. It sounds like he is picking and choosing his words, his specs, his performance data to support his bias. Not impressed.

tuna quesadilla
11-13-2012, 9:35 AM
I am interested in the round, so I am not a basher, but this guy sounds like a bad salesman and not objective in the least. It sounds like he is picking and choosing his words, his specs, his performance data to support his bias. Not impressed.

I would not be surprised if he is on AAC's payroll.

Rorge Retson
11-13-2012, 9:54 AM
I would not be surprised if he is on AAC's payroll.

I hadn't thought of that, actually, but in light of his words and behavior on camera, I wouldn't be surprised either.

mif_slim
11-13-2012, 10:46 AM
Yeah, but Travis only shoots 100,000rd to test and tune it...us internet guys on the other hand knows everything there is about to know about the 300aac because we read it on the net. ;)

tuna quesadilla
11-13-2012, 10:49 AM
Yeah, but Travis only shoots 100,000rd to test and tune it...us internet guys on the other hand knows everything there is about to know about the 300aac because we read it on the net. ;)

Who paid for those 100,000 rounds? At the prices I've seen for .300 AAC ball ammo, that's about 50 thousand dollars in ammunition alone. I don't believe for a second that Haley paid for any of those 100,000 rounds, or the multiple rifles and optics (with likely rebarrel jobs every 10-15k rounds) that he used to shoot them.

toby
11-13-2012, 10:55 AM
When all is done the 300 AAC is just one more taciticool round for everyone to OHHHH and AHHHH and argue over. It's no better than anything that already exists. It follows the same tracks as the 6.8 joke round...... Whatever

Knight_Who_Says_Ni
11-13-2012, 11:08 AM
You guys are all bashing the .300 BLK as a useless round if you live in a state like California. It makes hell of a lot more sense than a .223 for hunting because of the energy the round carries, and doesn't require you to run a new bolt/mags. It's a barrel change and you have a new caliber. I'll be running a .300 BLK AR as my hunting rifle next season because it is way lighter than my precision bolt gun, and I'm not taking 350+ yard shots in the areas I'm hunting in.

You guys also seem to forget that the .300 BLK is very similar ballistically to a 7.62 x39. I don't see everyone dumping their AKs because of the round they're chambered in.

0351USMC
11-13-2012, 11:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik
tgKjbySsAik

jgraham15
11-13-2012, 11:27 AM
I actually like the round and hope to have my 300 blk pistol done next month.

It is interesting that he left out certain things like barrel lengths and bullet weights.

If you're going to tell me that such and such is better than such and such it would be nice to have ALL the information.

Rorge Retson
11-13-2012, 11:37 AM
You guys are all bashing the .300 BLK as a useless round if you live in a state like California. It makes hell of a lot more sense than a .223 for hunting because of the energy the round carries, and doesn't require you to run a new bolt/mags. It's a barrel change and you have a new caliber. I'll be running a .300 BLK AR as my hunting rifle next season because it is way lighter than my precision bolt gun, and I'm not taking 350+ yard shots in the areas I'm hunting in.

You guys also seem to forget that the .300 BLK is very similar ballistically to a 7.62 x39. I don't see everyone dumping their AKs because of the round they're chambered in.

Like I said, I am interested in the round, so I'm not a basher - I'm open to input. However, this guy sounds like a shill, so I said as much. This is independent of any merit the round has.

One thing that has been bugging me is this "all you need to do is swap a barrel" crap. No, you need to swap an upper, not a barrel. Two different things. Yes, you can USE regular AR-15 stuff like bolts, mags, etc., but you still need to swap your whole upper if you plan on actually using the caliber like a normal person. I would bet very few people carry around strap or barrel nut wrenches with them, and even if they did, would they actually swap out a barrel every time they wanted to go from 5.56 to 300 BLK? Doubtful. They'd need to have another built upper - which is certainly more expensive than a barrel.

If they (the people invested in promoting this round) weren't concerned with selling rifles and ammunition, and were only concerned with selling the idea, they wouldn't need to exaggerate claims or minimize things like cost.

Which leads me to start leaning more toward the school of thought that the round is much less than it is cracked up to be. If it was all that as some would lead us to believe, would they really need shysters hawking it with cherry-picked stats?

Again, doubtful.

Rorge Retson
11-13-2012, 11:40 AM
I actually like the round and hope to have my 300 blk pistol done next month.

It is interesting that he left out certain things like barrel lengths and bullet weights.

If you're going to tell me that such and such is better than such and such it would be nice to have ALL the information.

Exactly. Cherry-picking information raises red flags and initializes my BS meter.

DarkSoul
11-13-2012, 12:19 PM
I am curious as to how many people that have posted in this thread have actually used/shot a 300 Blackout themselves? Most of the comments seem to be pure speculation without actual hands on, or just relying on either others people comments/speculations, or other just dissing the round because they have a 6.5, 6.8. or something other than a 300.

I own a 300 Blackout rifle, and it has become my favorite out of my AR platform guns (2 - 5.56, and a 300 BO). Its just as accurate as my 5.56 at the distances I shoot (mostly under 100 yards), and is, at that distance, much more devastating, lets look at the numbers that I personally have recorded

300 Blackout / 16" barrel
OAL - 2.155
Bullet - Milsurp 147g FMJBT
Powder - Milsurp WC680 (AA1680) - 18.6g
Energy - 1117 fpe @ 1850 fps

5.56 / 18" Barrel
OAL - 2.260
Bullet - Nosler 77g HPBT
Powder - Varget - 23g
Energy - 1039 fpe @ 2628 fps

This particular round (77g Nosler), which is about as heavy as you can get in a magazine fed AR is still hitting with less energy with a 2" longer barrel than what I load for "range ammo" with my Balckout.

If we look at what AAC recommends and use something like a 125g projectile

300 Blackout / 16" barrel
OAL - 2.155
Bullet - Hornady 125g SST
Powder - Milsurp WC680 (AA1680) - 22.5g
Energy - 1369 fpe @ 2221

We are hitting even harder than all of the above.

I have in fact shot both a 6.5 Grendel, and a 6.8SPC, and although I liked both guns, my issues with these are as follows-

6.5 Grendel - Still very expensive ammo costs, even to reload (no "range pickup brass) or even once fired available, so even to reload at least the first say 500 rounds to get the brass costs a lot, it requires specific magazines, a 6.5 specific bolt, and so on, so although you could swap an entire upper over to your lower, its not truly cross compatible. And last, it does have a noticeable increase in felt recoil, its not "unmanageable", but it does effect speed from target to target if thats your thing.

6.8spc - - Very Expensive ammo (same issues as the 6.5), requires specific mags, requires specific bolt, much stronger felt recoil. Again, same sort of issues as the 6.5 Grendel. Its NOT a truly cross compatible gun parts wise.

I really like the 300 Backout because of its ability to use all AR 5.56 specific parts with the exception of the barrel, same mags, same bolt, etc. The choices of ammo for the Blackout are growing by the day (unlike the 6.5 or 6.8). Loading your own 300 is a snap since you can easily convert 5.56 brass over. If you reload, you can load for as little as .17 a round. Also the choice of projectiles is staggering since its simply a .308 bullet, everything from 110g to 220g , running either sub or super sonic. I have 125g Frangible subs on hand for home protection, and 147g for target/steel. Pretty much everyone in the club I shoot with has been very impressed with the power and light recoil of the 300.

You guys can sling doubt and uncertainty all you want about the 300 Blackout, but until you shoot one, and really spend some time with the rifle in a multitude of shooting scenarios, I would hold judgement.

Bottom line is, it may not have the all out reach of the 6.5 or the 6.8 (although that Travis Haley vid has him banging a plate at 750 meters with one), but for those of us that will never see combat, and will probably rarely if ever shoot over 200 yards (I think most of us would switch to a bolt gun at 200+ meters), I see no reason to switch to a caliber that costs way more in ammo, regardless of buying factory or reloading, has no cross compatible magazines or bolts etc.

The 300 hits like a freight train inside of 200 meters, has very little felt recoil even with supersonic loads with 147g projectiles, has common parts (mags, bolt etc) and is considerably cheaper to feed, even more so if you reload.

If you are even considering building one up, I highly recommend, if you have the opportunity to shoot one, take it, you will ove the gun.

Rorge Retson
11-13-2012, 12:27 PM
You guys can sling doubt and uncertainty all you want about the 300 Blackout, but until you shoot one, and really spend some time with the rifle in a multitude of shooting scenarios, I would hold judgement.

I am holding judgment - on the round. I do find quite curious, however, the behavior of some of its adherents.

Thanks for your first-hand experience, I find it helpful. ;)

P.S. - Where are you located? :D

mif_slim
11-13-2012, 12:29 PM
Yeah DarkSoul, but your testing isn't as valid as the internet commandos. ;)

A+ for effort. :D

DarkSoul
11-13-2012, 12:30 PM
I am holding judgment - on the round. I do find quite curious, however, the behavior of some of its adherents.

Thanks for your first-hand experience, I find it helpful. ;)

P.S. - Where are you located? :D

I am in San Jose , if you find yourself in the are, hit me up, you are welcome to try out my 300 :44:

Rorge Retson
11-13-2012, 12:33 PM
I am in San Jose , if you find yourself in the are, hit me up, you are welcome to try out my 300 :44:

Cool, thx, will do. :)

zomie
11-13-2012, 2:28 PM
6.5 Grendel - Still very expensive ammo costs, even to reload (no "range pickup brass) or even once fired available, so even to reload at least the first say 500 rounds to get the brass costs a lot, it requires specific magazines, a 6.5 specific bolt, and so on, so although you could swap an entire upper over to your lower, its not truly cross compatible. And last, it does have a noticeable increase in felt recoil, its not "unmanageable", but it does effect speed from target to target if thats your thing.


I really like the 300 Backout because of its ability to use all AR 5.56 specific parts with the exception of the barrel, same mags, same bolt, etc. The choices of ammo for the Blackout are growing by the day (unlike the 6.5 or 6.8). Loading your own 300 is a snap since you can easily convert 5.56 brass over. If you reload, you can load for as little as .17 a round. Also the choice of projectiles is staggering since its simply a .308 bullet, everything from 110g to 220g , running either sub or super sonic. I have 125g Frangible subs on hand for home protection, and 147g for target/steel. Pretty much everyone in the club I shoot with has been very impressed with the power and light recoil of the 300.

You guys can sling doubt and uncertainty all you want about the 300 Blackout, but until you shoot one, and really spend some time with the rifle in a multitude of shooting scenarios, I would hold judgement.



The 6.5 Grendel can be case formed from 7.62x39 brass which is somewhat attainable at a decent price. The bullets on the other hand are insane. A decent match round is $.235 and the cheapest I can find for it run $.16 for cast lead gas checked. It does use more common rifle powders though.

Personally I completely agree with everything you say though. The 300 blk is a hell of a round for the price. If you reload, there is virtually no difference with milsurp rounds vs 5.56. You get much more energy for the buck. There are not many places in the Bay Area you can shoot over 200 yards.

I have been pushing my 147 gr milsurps to 2050 fps without any signs to the case of premature wear to the case. I am expecting around 2100 fps with lil gun when my order comes in. This is out of a 16 inch barrel.

There is a bit more energy then your reports show in that data. Of course those are at your own risk hand loads and not factory :)

We should setup a 300blk shoot so folks can see for themselves.

Dakine_surf
11-13-2012, 3:38 PM
So many haters and coming from what i see is mostly armchair super tacticool ninja commandos :rolleyes: From all the haters, I see very few that actually own or have shot 300blk. Shoot it (and when I say shoot it, go take a tactical carbine course with it, and do one that goes beyond 100m) and then come back and say the same things. I have run a 300 out to almost 700 meters, holdover is different, but if I had to choose between that and 556, my choice would be with 300 blk. It is the best of both worlds.

Call Haley a tit sucking AAC spokes person, but that's not what he is about. He gets stuff to try out, yes, but he only recommends what works. His recommendations and training are ending up in the hands of guys in harms way, and Travis takes that very seriously. Guys like him can have endorsement deals with any company out there because of who they are, he only puts his name on a couple products... and he sure is hell isn't putting it on any AAC products. In fact he isn't even running an AAC can in that video. I think people are so quick to write off Haley and Costa because they got famous making DVDs, but before that they were training guys actually in harms way, I know, I was one of them. Things Costa taught me, stuck with me through some hairy s*ht. I can honestly say I that my parents would have had a US flag in a glass case in the living room if it wasn't for some of the things I learned from Chris. And this was all before the whole Magpul thing.

scobun
11-13-2012, 3:49 PM
What the FUD are you talking about? :TFH:

Quiet Action: able to run a SBR (in free states) with a can, slinging out 220 GRAIN GIANT bullets at hush hush noise levels ACCURATELY out to 200 meters (MP5SD is only accurate out to 50 meters, 8 or 9 MOA, yeah, that's right).

Go Loud: able to, with just a switch of different magazine in your pouch, in the same SBR with the same can still on, suddenly shoot out super sonic rounds anywhere from 115 to 170 GRAIN (try that with a 5.56) that will be accurate out to 300 meters easily (350 meters if you're a decent shot). And at 350 meters, a 147 grain 300blk STILL HAS THE SAME ENERGY AS A 308 AT 650 METERS. Any game a 308 can take, the 300 blackout can take within 350 meters!

ALL THIS IN A CARBINE CONFIGURATION AND WEIGHT WITH SUB 16 INCH BARREL!!!

Try doing that with a 5.56 to a bear :rolleyes:

Why would someone who lives in a free state not use for that?

A hot date is a great thing, but if you're not going to get intimate and marry her, it makes little sense.

A fast car is a great thing, but if you're not going to drive it, it makes little sense.

What's your point? Why would someone NOT use it in a SBR with a can in a free state?

The 300 blackout has the same energy from a 9 inch barrel as does the 5.56 have from a 16 inch barrel.

Think about that. Now, why would somebody carry around and extra 7 inch of barrel when they can get the same energy from a 9 inch blackout barrel in a free state?

And even if I should overlook your rambling nonsense, you're still not making sense.

Can you suppress a 5.56 or 6.8 or 6.5 in a 16 inch barrel? CAN YOU SUPPRESS THEM IN ANY BARREL LENGTH in an AR configuration?

:no:

So exaggerating a bit with that "every purpose" part, ain't you?


Yes they will, that's the ONE and ONLY thing they do better than the 300 blackout. But since that is what your only criteria is, since you mostly engage targets from 350 meters to 850 meters more often than within 350 meters, the best gun for you would be a 50 barret then?

If long range energy delivery is the concern here, why would anybody choose the 5.56, 6.5, 6.8, or the 300blk?? All those rounds are inferior to the 308 in a bolt action.

The 300blk in a carbine configuration, WITHIN 350 yards, is superior to the 6.5, 6.8, and 5.56 because it can shoot quietly or go loud with just a switch of the magazine. If you want to jump to long range, than all these choices would be moot, SO WHY COMPARE THEM IN LONG RANGE when 308 bolt action makes the most sense?

Uh... the 220 grain subsonic is accurate out to 200 yards, as long as you have a scope that has enough BDC to measure the drop at the distance. Handloads come in at 2 moa or SUB moa!

You win king of the internet. When you decide to come shoot in the real world, you're in for a real wake-up call. I've bolded the two most obvious pieces of absolute BS as I scanned over your ramblings. A 2 MOA 200 yard group from a cartridge that is subsonic at the muzzle. HA! Get real.

Somewhere in your nonsense, you missed the point. A bullet that is subsonic is incredibly inaccurate. Those are not my feelings, that is physics. You can go with the absurd and indecipherable metaphor and ramblings and I'll stick with math. Again, please show me the NUMBERS that would display how a .300 Blackout would outperform the 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, or 5.56 77gr SMK out of a 16 inch barrel past 100 yards. The .300 Blackout forces you to pick short, fat bullets that don't penetrate and get kicked around a lot in the wind, or long truncated bullets that are too slow to be reasonably accurate. That doesn't even address the problem that no .30 cal bullets are designed to reliably expand at .300 Blackout velocities.

This is CALguns. Most people here don't own an SBR or supresor because this is CALifornia. I have an NFA trust in Nevada, but I think most here probably don't.

A .300 Blackout is awesome in a suppressed SBR WHICH IS WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO. You spent a great deal of time trying to argue against me while taking the same position. :nuts: In any other role, it takes a back seat to the 5.56 77gr SMK, 6.8 SPC, or 6.5 Grendel. The 5.56, 6.8 and 6.5 are all general purpose carbine cartridges and can do anything as well, or in 95% of the cases, much better than the .300 Blackout. There is one glaring exception. I'll let you guess what that is.

The .300 Blackout fills a niche role. That isn't my opinion, that is math, physics and ballistics.

hammerhands32
11-13-2012, 4:36 PM
I have an AR57 and a 6.5 Grendel so I am glad you guys found someone else to pick on:43:

I love the idea of different cartridges so I say buy it. I have never shot one let alone seen one up close but after my 6.5 Creedmoor is done, I will most likely be looking at a .300.

mif_slim
11-13-2012, 5:00 PM
"A bullet that is subsonic is incredibly inaccurate. Those are not my feelings, that is physics"

Wait, so the 22lr competition who shoots subsonic rounds to 100 yards getting sub-moa(.45") is not accurate??

tba02
11-13-2012, 5:07 PM
A 200m max range on a rifle round is pathetic.

It's a wonder the 30-30 survived, no?
- proper (and affordable) tool for the job I guess.

scobun
11-13-2012, 5:46 PM
"A bullet that is subsonic is incredibly inaccurate. Those are not my feelings, that is physics"

Wait, so the 22lr competition who shoots subsonic rounds to 100 yards getting sub-moa(.45") is not accurate??

I'd love to see a .45 inch subsonic .22 group shot in a full value wind.

I should be more precise with my language. A subsonic round will always be less accurate than one that is supersonic in the real world. The simple reason behind this is that the environmental factors (mostly wind) has longer to affect the subsonic projectile over the same distance. Time of flight starts to matter a great deal. That doesn't even take into account the fact that a .300 Blackout has bullets that either bleed energy like crazy and get ate up by wind or are super heavy, maintain energy, and have a time of flight that makes a Condor look quick.

This ignores one other major real world problem with "subsonic" rounds. I'd bet that a lot of the "subsonic" loads out there are supersonic for a short while out of a 16in .300 Blackout. It is very hard to tell the difference between the two unless you're shooting them through a suppressor. If you start a bullet just above the supersonic range, then you get into the whole transonic instability thing going on. That is the worst of all worlds.

scobun
11-13-2012, 5:51 PM
It's a wonder the 30-30 survived, no?
- proper (and affordable) tool for the job I guess.

Not a wonder at all, considering what a step up the .30-30 was. The average lever action cartridge of the time was something in the .44-40 range shooting a heavy, slow bullet with a terrible ballistic coefficient and a low sectional density. They didn't have those terms, but their real world experience sufficed.

It is almost like people knew that a lighter, faster and flatter shooting round was much more desirable in a rifle. Hmm, sounds familiar.

Cypriss32
11-13-2012, 5:57 PM
Hmmm 110gr TSX over 2,000fps from a ar platform whats not to like?

For me its common sense, light, accurate, CHEAP, easy to reload, fits in standered AR mags....... Come on guys.

rsilvers
11-13-2012, 6:18 PM
The .300 Blackout fills a niche role. That isn't my opinion, that is math, physics and ballistics.

Actually it is the opposite. It can shoot from 100-250 or so grain bullets making it very wide in scope, not narrow.

If Travis is on AAC's payroll, that would be news to me, and I am the 300 BLK project lead at AAC.

Strange when I see people assume that no one can be excited about something unless they are paid for it. What does that say about the people who say that?

rsilvers
11-13-2012, 6:20 PM
Someone posted that 300 BLK is only useful in an SBR. That is absurd.

300 BLK gains 28 fps per inch at 16 inches. That is the same as what 223 gains in a 24 inch barrel.

I believe that 223 is most optimal at 24 inches, and 300 BLK at 16 inches.

In fact 300 BLK in a 16 inch barrel has as much energy at 223 in a 24 inch barrel.

Also for CA people who registered lowers by CA's deadline, you can use your pre-ban 30 round magazines. Try that with other alternative cartridges.

mif_slim
11-13-2012, 6:50 PM
^ yeah, but now the haters will say your only claiming that because you work for AAC.

Haters will always hate. I just want to see one who said it sucks take a hit from the cartridge and tell us if its effective.

Rorge Retson
11-13-2012, 6:51 PM
Strange when I see people assume that no one can be excited about something unless they are paid for it. What does that say about the people who say that?

Strange when people use selective reading skills and assume that no one can be seriously biased....what does that say about the people who say that?

mif_slim
11-13-2012, 6:52 PM
You know, on second thought, let's make them stand at 700 yards and take a shot.. I'm sure they'll be safe, its double, triple the "effective" range of that round.. :)

Aceman58
11-13-2012, 7:56 PM
Thanks Darksoul, well said.... well said....
Also thanks R. Silvers I have your review on the .300 and let me tell you I enjoyed it very much. In fact it was your review or flip chart called, (300 AAC Blackout Low Visibility Carbine), is what got me interested in building a .300 BLK rilfe to add to my collection of AR15s. I'm active in LEO and a certified rangemaster and for the distance I play in, this .300 BLK has some interesting numbers to back up it performance. I don't think it's a cure all caliber for all types of application, but the cartridge itself has strong numbers up to it's 300m range. Keep up the great work. I've shared your flip chart with others and I see light bulbs on top of their heads on building one for themselves.. Keepen in the X ring.

Dakine_surf
11-13-2012, 8:24 PM
Someone posted that 300 BLK is only useful in an SBR. That is absurd.

Yep, I can't believe some peoples close-mindedness... it's like the guys who say a 1911 can only be .45 and that 9mm isn't a real 1911, yet have never shot one.

I have a 16" .300 blk. I never shoot it suppressed, it out performs my .223/5.56 ar's in most ways. I know I would rather stand at the end of a 5.56 at 600+m than a 300 blk... it hits steel with authority even at that distance.

GettoPhilosopher
11-14-2012, 6:24 AM
One thing that has been bugging me is this "all you need to do is swap a barrel" crap. No, you need to swap an upper, not a barrel. Two different things. Yes, you can USE regular AR-15 stuff like bolts, mags, etc., but you still need to swap your whole upper if you plan on actually using the caliber like a normal person. I would bet very few people carry around strap or barrel nut wrenches with them, and even if they did, would they actually swap out a barrel every time they wanted to go from 5.56 to 300 BLK? Doubtful. They'd need to have another built upper - which is certainly more expensive than a barrel.


This one has been my favorite nonargument. It's like when Adam Keigwin would see a StopSB249 ad talking about how we're just going to all go featureless and use our legally owned preban large capacity magazines, then he'd tweet about how we were lying because new LCMs aren't available in CA.

Sure, they're not. You'd also have to be intentionally trying to misunderstand to think we were claiming you can go legally buy LCMs in CA.

Of course you're not going to swap a barrel in the field/at the range. No s**t, Sherlock. That's not what anyone is claiming. The point is if I decided to start shooting 300 BLK, the cost/process is "Buy $175-$300 barrel based on preference, swap it out with my 5.56 bbl, go shooting" instead of having to buy a new bbl + mags + buffer + bolt.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

DarkSoul
11-14-2012, 7:08 AM
This one has been my favorite nonargument. It's like when Adam Keigwin would see a StopSB249 ad talking about how we're just going to all go featureless and use our legally owned preban large capacity magazines, then he'd tweet about how we were lying because new LCMs aren't available in CA.

Sure, they're not. You'd also have to be intentionally trying to misunderstand to think we were claiming you can go legally buy LCMs in CA.

Of course you're not going to swap a barrel in the field/at the range. No s**t, Sherlock. That's not what anyone is claiming. The point is if I decided to start shooting 300 BLK, the cost/process is "Buy $175-$300 barrel based on preference, swap it out with my 5.56 bbl, go shooting" instead of having to buy a new bbl + mags + buffer + bolt.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

This

Its an argument IMO that people fall back on when out of arguments (this is not an intentional jab at you Rorge), its just that I see this sort of thing so much, and it is quite comical imo.

I almost exclusively now shoot my 300 over my 5.56 carbine, had I NOT had the money to build up an entire new rifle or complete upper, I would have just swapped the barrel to see what it was all about, and, probably never swapped back. This is a much better option if you are "on the fence" about the 300, and just want to sort of dip your toes without the much larger investment of a complete upper or full rifle.

If you want to do that with a 6.5 or 6.8, tough luck, its a substantially larger financial investment.

Rorge Retson
11-14-2012, 8:19 AM
It's one thing to say that all parts other than the barrel are interchangable, and another to say that it is a simple barrel swap - which, for most people, isn't simple - it means a trip to the gunsmith. And, it means that they don't have a 5.56/.223 anymore - just a 300BLK - which they may not want. So, it's an upper swap, not a barrel swap for most.

Perhaps other folks are using this as a "back-up argument," but not me. If your reading comprehension is up to snuff, you will see that I am still interested in this round. Still, after all of this blah-blah-blah and cut-downs and personal attacks, etc., I am still looking into it. Heck, I was shopping for 300BLK barrels last night for my next pistol build.

So it would be nice if some of you could get down off of your high horse and see where some of the adherents of this round are stepping on their own dicks with the stupid s*** they say, admit that it is stupid, and that they could be saying it better.

rsilvers
11-14-2012, 8:19 AM
http://www.300aacblackout.com/resources/300-BLK.pdf

DarkSoul
11-14-2012, 9:02 AM
It's one thing to say that all parts other than the barrel are interchangable, and another to say that it is a simple barrel swap - which, for most people, isn't simple - it means a trip to the gunsmith. And, it means that they don't have a 5.56/.223 anymore - just a 300BLK - which they may not want. So, it's an upper swap, not a barrel swap for most.

Perhaps other folks are using this as a "back-up argument," but not me. If your reading comprehension is up to snuff, you will see that I am still interested in this round. Still, after all of this blah-blah-blah and cut-downs and personal attacks, etc., I am still looking into it. Heck, I was shopping for 300BLK barrels last night for my next pistol build.

So it would be nice if some of you could get down off of your high horse and see where some of the adherents of this round are stepping on their own dicks with the stupid s*** they say, admit that it is stupid, and that they could be saying it better.

Rorge, I hear you, and I didnt mean to come across in a harsh or dickish way towards you, you just happen to state something that is sort of a pet peeve of mine, so again, my intention was not to insult, or diminish your thoughts on the topic. Your comments have all been very fair, and I have no arguments with any of them, except for what I pointed out about being able to "just swapping a barrel" but again, you have valid points that a barrel swap is beyond many peoples capabilities.

All the BS aside, I think you will really like the 300, as I think most people that are open to new things will be. Those that cannot see past the 6.5 or 6.8 argument, well, thats on them.

Rorge Retson
11-14-2012, 10:00 AM
Rorge, I hear you, and I didnt mean to come across in a harsh or dickish way towards you, you just happen to state something that is sort of a pet peeve of mine, so again, my intention was not to insult, or diminish your thoughts on the topic. Your comments have all been very fair, and I have no arguments with any of them, except for what I pointed out about being able to "just swapping a barrel" but again, you have valid points that a barrel swap is beyond many peoples capabilities.

All the BS aside, I think you will really like the 300, as I think most people that are open to new things will be. Those that cannot see past the 6.5 or 6.8 argument, well, thats on them.

No problem, I wasn't directing my comments at you, but to some others who seem to be rabid adherents without any current or recent ties to lucidity. ;)

I think I will like the 300 BLK as well...I'm looking forward to putting it through its paces as a pistol, alongside my 5.56 (which itself is based around an Adams 1:7 twist, 7.5" barrel).

The fact that ammo is affordable and I can use all my AR15 stuff like mags, etc. is just gravy. :)

Dhena81
11-14-2012, 10:05 AM
So many haters and coming from what i see is mostly armchair super tacticool ninja commandos :rolleyes: From all the haters, I see very few that actually own or have shot 300blk. Shoot it (and when I say shoot it, go take a tactical carbine course with it, and do one that goes beyond 100m) and then come back and say the same things. I have run a 300 out to almost 700 meters, holdover is different, but if I had to choose between that and 556, my choice would be with 300 blk. It is the best of both worlds.

Call Haley a tit sucking AAC spokes person, but that's not what he is about. He gets stuff to try out, yes, but he only recommends what works. His recommendations and training are ending up in the hands of guys in harms way, and Travis takes that very seriously. Guys like him can have endorsement deals with any company out there because of who they are, he only puts his name on a couple products... and he sure is hell isn't putting it on any AAC products. In fact he isn't even running an AAC can in that video. I think people are so quick to write off Haley and Costa because they got famous making DVDs, but before that they were training guys actually in harms way, I know, I was one of them. Things Costa taught me, stuck with me through some hairy s*ht. I can honestly say I that my parents would have had a US flag in a glass case in the living room if it wasn't for some of the things I learned from Chris. And this was all before the whole Magpul thing.

Good post.

I think it's funny how many haters there are on this board TH and CC are a valuable training resource. You don't have to agree with everything they say but atleast they tell you their way and why they choose it not telling you it's the only way. I think people are also confused with the fact that there are sub sonic and super sonic loadings for the 300 black. Previously I kind of wrote off ever getting a 300B upper but I'm definitely intrigued now and now have interest in doing more research.

Quiet
11-14-2012, 11:59 AM
I want this .300Blackout.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/643884_444949008898130_1075882316_n.jpg
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/533574_444521058940925_986666908_n.jpg

GettoPhilosopher
11-14-2012, 1:50 PM
To echo DarkSoul, it's not my intention to attack you at all either. And admittedly maybe I don't put enough stock into the difficulty of swapping a bbl when to me it's something that takes as low as 5 min (depending on your setup) using nothing more than a vice block and the armorer's wrench everyone should own already. (admittedly in apts. the vice can be a problem)

Anyways, I think at least with you and I it's more a talking past each other a bit. All I mean is trying 300 BLK for me costs $175 + relatively cheap ammo instead of the big investment I'd have to make to try 6.5 or 6.8 or one of the thumpers or 7.62x39, etc. You're correctly pointing out that is only accurate if you do your own AR work and don't mind it being a replacement (my 5.56 carbine is now a 300 BLK carbine).

I will say one of the big ones attracting me is the ease of reloading. Take my dented 5.56 brass, cut, resize, and trim. Take extra .308 bullets and the same SR primers I use on my 5.56 and I'm good to go. I'm still getting my reloading for .223 up and running, but converting my carbine to 300 BLK is definitely high on my list of projects.


It's one thing to say that all parts other than the barrel are interchangable, and another to say that it is a simple barrel swap - which, for most people, isn't simple - it means a trip to the gunsmith. And, it means that they don't have a 5.56/.223 anymore - just a 300BLK - which they may not want. So, it's an upper swap, not a barrel swap for most.

Perhaps other folks are using this as a "back-up argument," but not me. If your reading comprehension is up to snuff, you will see that I am still interested in this round. Still, after all of this blah-blah-blah and cut-downs and personal attacks, etc., I am still looking into it. Heck, I was shopping for 300BLK barrels last night for my next pistol build.

So it would be nice if some of you could get down off of your high horse and see where some of the adherents of this round are stepping on their own dicks with the stupid s*** they say, admit that it is stupid, and that they could be saying it better.



Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Rorge Retson
11-14-2012, 3:08 PM
To echo DarkSoul, it's not my intention to attack you at all either. And admittedly maybe I don't put enough stock into the difficulty of swapping a bbl when to me it's something that takes as low as 5 min (depending on your setup) using nothing more than a vice block and the armorer's wrench everyone should own already. (admittedly in apts. the vice can be a problem)

Anyways, I think at least with you and I it's more a talking past each other a bit. All I mean is trying 300 BLK for me costs $175 + relatively cheap ammo instead of the big investment I'd have to make to try 6.5 or 6.8 or one of the thumpers or 7.62x39, etc. You're correctly pointing out that is only accurate if you do your own AR work and don't mind it being a replacement (my 5.56 carbine is now a 300 BLK carbine).

I will say one of the big ones attracting me is the ease of reloading. Take my dented 5.56 brass, cut, resize, and trim. Take extra .308 bullets and the same SR primers I use on my 5.56 and I'm good to go. I'm still getting my reloading for .223 up and running, but converting my carbine to 300 BLK is definitely high on my list of projects.
Yep - I rent, so no garage (or, more accurately, no garage with tools) and no vise. And I will be building another full-blown upper+lower for my 300BLK if/when that comes to pass (I already have a pistol lower on the way for it), so I'll be all set and won't have to give up an existing 5.56 platform to build one.

My point is this and only this - the advantages of the 300BLK are so great and so real that I don't understand why (certain) adherents of the platform don't just say what they are, without feeling the need to embellish upon them. It's not necessary, it's not accurate, it gives detractors more ammunition, and overall it just takes away from the discussion.

tenpercentfirearms
11-15-2012, 7:37 AM
Someone posted that 300 BLK is only useful in an SBR. That is absurd.

300 BLK gains 28 fps per inch at 16 inches. That is the same as what 223 gains in a 24 inch barrel.

I believe that 223 is most optimal at 24 inches, and 300 BLK at 16 inches.

In fact 300 BLK in a 16 inch barrel has as much energy at 223 in a 24 inch barrel.

Also for CA people who registered lowers by CA's deadline, you can use your pre-ban 30 round magazines. Try that with other alternative cartridges.

rsilvers, send me an e-mail at sales@taftguns.com. I have an idea for suppressed 9" uppers I want to discuss with you.

I like my .300 BLK 16" and 9" pistol. I like them suppressed even more.

Aceman58
11-15-2012, 4:47 PM
Well pending my Mobil One complete .300 upper w/bolt & carrier. I have completed the lower with all the goodies.. I did a custom logo "300" on the right side of the mag well. I like the movie "300" and the bloody 300 look cool for my .300 build... so on it went... Love the Magpul products, so use them on all of my builds, BAD lever, grip, stock etc.

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g414/jesseasis1/100_1868.jpg

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g414/jesseasis1/100_1866.jpg