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gun toting monkeyboy
10-12-2012, 2:20 PM
(Update) See post 188. Pac Nor makes exactly what I was looking for.


So I have an AR project that I am working on. I needed to get a .35 caliber barrel blank. Since I have had good luck with Pac Nor barrels in the past, I hit their website first. They have a tab for AR barrels. I clicked on it, and it took me straight to Noveske's website. Interesting. I figured what the heck. I'll ask. So here is the email exchange:

me: "I am looking for an unchambered .35 caliber AR barrel. Is that something that you can make? And if so, how much would it cost?"

joel@noveske.com: "Thanks, but we are not interested. Kindly, Joel"

Now at this point I am a bit confused. I wasn't sure what he was not interested in, and it looked like my email had been bounced to a couple of people at their company before it had gotten to him. So I figured I would get some clarification to see if he was responding to me, or one of the people who had forwarded this to him.

me: "Not interested in what? I had asked if you could make a barrel. If that is something you can do, let me know. If not, would Pac Nor be the more appropriate company to ask? The only reason I approached you was because of the link on their web page for AR barrels."

joel@noveske.com: "Thanks but we are not interested,,, in making you a baaarrrrrellll in .35 cal. Kindly, Joel"

Now is it just me, or was that really freakin' rude? I am not the one who has a link from a barrel manufacturer to my website. And where exactly does he get off treating a potential customer that way? A simple "No" would have been just fine. Instead, he is sarcastic and tells me he is "not interested". What the hell does his interest have to do with anything? I wasn't going to him with hat in hand to see if he could do me a favor. I went to them as a customer to see if they could make something for me. If they don't want inquiries, why do they have an inquiry form on their website? Or for that matter, why do they bother having a link from Pac Nor barrels? With that kind of customer service, I am not ever going to use their company. Period, end of story. :mad:

-Mb

G60
10-12-2012, 2:24 PM
I think you have a perception problem.

21SF
10-12-2012, 2:25 PM
Noveske = cool aid any way.

Call Pac nor directly. Or white oak.

GM4spd
10-12-2012, 2:28 PM
Love ---Customer Service. Pete

Grnjeep1
10-12-2012, 2:38 PM
There are a lot of other companies out there that are just as good, if not better than Noveske for a barreellllllllll blank. I never understood the love affair with them. they have good stuff, but no where near what people make them out to be.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-12-2012, 2:41 PM
The only reason I went to them was because of the link on Pac Nor's page. I don't mind that they don't make the item I was looking for, it was a long shot anyway. It is the sarcastic response to a simple question that pissed me off.

-Mb

starsnuffer
10-12-2012, 2:47 PM
I think the first response was pretty clear, not sure where you got confused.

That said, there should have been no sarcasm from a CS department, that was rude. The response where they figured you were a little on the crash-helmet wearing side and delivered a response to you with "barrel" spelled slowed down so you wouldn't get more confused was out of line.

-W

high_revs
10-12-2012, 2:51 PM
joel is one of the technical guys. when i had primers popping from my 7.62x51 ammo (new ammo) on my noveske ar-10, i got a little impression as gun-toting-monkey boy. but he wasn't as sarcastic. he just the analysis of headspace issue on primers popping was too "novice" as assessment. then again, i don't know how much expertise calgunners have on the reloading section other than some of them have posted pretty good info in the past. but least, my conversion with joel was pretty civil.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-12-2012, 2:53 PM
It's not a crash helmet. It is for hockey. The face mask is there in case I try to eat with a fork again. (shudder) I had to wear that eye patch for weeks...

The reason I was unsure as to whether he was talking to me about the barrel in the first one was because there were several headers attached to the email, making it look like it it had been bounced around through their inter-office system several times. Well, that and the fact that "not interested" was a very odd response to give to a customer. A simple "No" would have done it.

-Mb

AleksandreCz
10-12-2012, 2:54 PM
I think the first response was pretty clear, not sure where you got confused.

That said, there should have been no sarcasm from a CS department, that was rude. The response where they figured you were a little on the crash-helmet wearing side and delivered a response to you with "barrel" spelled slowed down so you wouldn't get more confused was out of line.

-W

I dont think the First responce was clear at all. Who Is ever not intrested in selling something ? That is not how you answer a customers email. You tell anything but that you are not intrested in doing buisness with them.
OP I would have had the same reaction as you
F Novseke take all your buisness elswhere from now on

Casual_Shooter
10-12-2012, 3:03 PM
I would not have liked that response either.

Hoop
10-12-2012, 3:19 PM
I don't see what's so unclear, he said 'we aren't interested' at that time I'd have said **** em and emailed someone who actually wanted my money.

wash
10-12-2012, 3:30 PM
Well, I would forward that message to Pacnor and tell them that they might want to have a classier shop do their AR barrels from now on and then buy your blank from Lothar Walther.

That was rude and they should have been less ambiguous in their first response.

Darklyte27
10-12-2012, 3:43 PM
Not professional at all go elsewhere.

bballwizard05
10-12-2012, 3:45 PM
To all the keyboard commando's who are saying something like "I think it was pretty clear"... seriously?

The responses from Noveske were pretty lame. The first one was shaky as a conversation between company and customer should be cut and dry, and the first email response could easily have elicited some confusion as to whether they meant to say that (because who the F says that?)

And the second one was straight childish.

OP: you got some weird responses from a narcasistic gun punk know it all. I would have been confused and put off too.

thefitter
10-12-2012, 3:48 PM
Anybody that would not think that response was rude and unprofessional by any company representative is a doormat and must get abused regularly.

Rorge Retson
10-12-2012, 4:17 PM
Sounds like a dips*** response to me.

problemchild
10-12-2012, 4:18 PM
X2

Had the same "type" of problem with NOV-coolaid-ESKE and moved on. Sent two emails and got rude replies with no help. F em!

scobun
10-12-2012, 4:36 PM
Looks like Noveske is already HK-Tier-1.

Noveske. Because you suck. And we're not interested.

I just sent Joel an email, thanking him for persuading me never to purchase any of their products.

CK_32
10-12-2012, 4:40 PM
I say call and report to a supervisor and forward them the message directly...

Then shop else where that's not cool at all... I'd raise hell

vintagearms
10-12-2012, 4:46 PM
He said thanx we are not interested. I get it. Its not like they do one-offs regularly for people. Not sure why you got confused. I have no issues with Noveske or the responce you got.

jcjt
10-12-2012, 4:47 PM
Thanks for sharing. I place a huge value in customer service- noveske fails. I will not support that company.

I would forward that email to customer service, heck even their Facebook page.

Plisk
10-12-2012, 6:19 PM
It's always interesting how so many people will claim to boycott a company based on something so trivial.

russ69
10-12-2012, 6:39 PM
Yeah, a .35 cal is pretty off the wall. I'm sure there is a long list of companies that would give you the same reply. Barrel blanks for .35 cal is not a common item except for some hunting rifle guys. You are talking a full custom job for an AR build, that's going to be a tough one to get filled.

NSR500
10-12-2012, 6:47 PM
Welcome to the gun industry. Harden the F*** up.


I see no issue with the response, 100% no frills and to the point.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-12-2012, 7:14 PM
Welcome to the gun industry. Harden the F*** up.


I see no issue with the response, 100% no frills and to the point.

And have you ever run a company? Or been a manager? Have you ever had one of your customer service people snark at a customer like that? Would you tolerate it? I have fired people for less obnoxious comments. I have had to fire people I liked because they pulled stunts like that. I had no choice. If that guy had pulled a stunt like that working for me, I would have handed him a final check within an hour. And I wouldn't have even felt bad about it. The gun industry is no different than any other industry. And no manager in any company worth a damn would put up with that either. If you believe any differently, you wouldn't last as a manager/owner/boss. Your customers come first. They are your source of income. And in case you haven't noticed, stunts like that generate a huge amount of negative feedback. How many hundred views does this one post have? In what? less than 6 hours? Do you honestly think that any employer wants this kind of post, with their employee's own words, plastered all over the net?

As for the .35 being an oddball, well, yes. That was why I was contacting Pac Nor. They make custom barrels. They just had a new tab on their website for AR15s. I figured I would give it a try.

-Mb

Bobby Ricigliano
10-12-2012, 7:20 PM
In this crumbling economy, I can't see any justification for ridiculing a potential customer with money to spend. No matter how hot sh)t a company thinks their product is, there are only so many people out there thathave the coin to buy these supposed 'high-end' items.

Hoop
10-12-2012, 7:41 PM
Yeah I've never understood how the gun industry is supposed to get a pass on treating customers like **** but that attitude is prevailing in many places.

If you're willing to spend that kind of money call Brux. They do drop ins for 223 and 308 ARs. Don't know if they'll do a 35 but at least they will be polite.

Hoop
10-12-2012, 7:42 PM
It's always interesting how so many people will claim to boycott a company based on something so trivial.

Eh I'd never buy noveske anyways they're overrated.

I particularly loved the thread from the person who bought a Noveske CMV barrel and then whined about how the finish wasn't perfect...

scobun
10-12-2012, 7:43 PM
It's always interesting how so many people will claim to boycott a company based on something so trivial.

If they're going to be dismissive of you about buying something, how well do you think they'll treat you if their product falls apart and you need something?

Noveske products are a fan-boy novelty, they aren't that special. However, at the prices they ask, they should be just a little more professional. They are like HK, except HK actually has government contracts and produces their own firearms.

fcr
10-12-2012, 7:49 PM
Reminded me of J&J Armory and some of their responses here.

socal147
10-12-2012, 7:54 PM
Forward the email(s) to every person you can. I think that would be funny. Nothing like a good kick in the nuts to get someones (Noveskes) attention.

Plisk
10-12-2012, 7:58 PM
If they're going to be dismissive of you about buying something, how well do you think they'll treat you if their product falls apart and you need something?

Noveske products are a fan-boy novelty, they aren't that special. However, at the prices they ask, they should be just a little more professional. They are like HK, except HK actually has government contracts and produces their own firearms.

Now see, I don't see it as being dismissive about someone purchasing a product. A .35 caliber barrel blank is something that Noveske does not manufacture. The original message was inquiring if such an item was able to be made for him. The response was that they were not interested in making a one-off barrel for him. The response was, yes, a bit odd and I'm not saying it could not have been handled differently. Some people in the thread here confirmed that Joel is a tech. at the company. His job isn't Customer Service, his job is more then likely centered around his bench in a shop and not next to a phone and constant email server access. So his response wasn't tailored in typical CS fashion we all come to expect (and at times demand), ok I understand. I've worked with, or communicated with enough techs from different companies and industries; some of these guys are just wired different (you have to be nutty to be a gear head at times) so the way he communicates may be different then the people that are CHOSEN and GROOMED for CS jobs. He was chosen for his technical skills, not his social skills.

I am not making any assumption or judgment on the social abilities of any employees at Noveske. I am just trying to get people to see the point of view, that you don't need to hold every employee to the level of World Class Customer Service that the dedicated CS people have.

ponderosa
10-12-2012, 8:00 PM
Well, I would forward that message to Pacnor and tell them that they might want to have a classier shop do their AR barrels from now on and then buy your blank from Lothar Walther.

That was rude and they should have been less ambiguous in their first response.

This

glocklover
10-12-2012, 8:06 PM
Funny,

Earlier this year, I emailed a small manufacturer of very specific hand made items, a one man shop, I wanted to have a one off item made, no price too big, with no time table.

He responded almost verbatim. He did specifically state "not interested".

I've come to realize, that a LOT of people, either aren't skilled or just don't care enough to compose a complete and coherent.

All my convo's with joel have been positive, as well as my dad's.

thegrayham
10-12-2012, 8:12 PM
Its sad, but I know smaller companies don't always have the time a resources to spend on customer service training. Either way, no excuses for treating a potential customer that way.

kotton
10-12-2012, 8:13 PM
As a small business owner all I can say is Joel is better off in the back room with a calculator and pencil up his nose, than speaking directly with customers. The reason being that he is a half retarded moron, and you dont want that impression on a potential customer.

If you think the proper answer to this question;

"do you guys make _____ barrel"

is

"we arent interested in making your bbbaaarrrrelll"

then I have some windows to rent for you to lick.

bighead
10-12-2012, 8:14 PM
It's a semi dickey response.It's email, people can say whatever they want without recourse, much like the internet.

Plisk
10-12-2012, 8:17 PM
As a small business owner all I can say is Joel is better off in the back room with a calculator and pencil up his nose, than speaking directly with customers. The reason being that he is a half retarded moron, and you dont want that impression on a potential customer.


Who are you to make such an assumption about someone?

CRTguns
10-12-2012, 8:29 PM
I used to call and talk to Johnny. They were small and did custom work back then. Then they got really really busy... and that's the whole idea in business, but it's hard to mainatin that one-on-one appeal that you have when you're small and looking for work.

Really though, there's ony a few things (17-4ph barrel steel) that make Noveske stuff work the $$, and a .358 spectre aint one of them.

(ps... I have a .338 whisper barrel and mags and dies and brass for sale. pm if interested. .338 gives you option for lighter bullets (215), and can go as heavy as .35. 300gr subsonic loads sound like a .22LR. 215s can make up to 1900 fps.)

CRTguns
10-12-2012, 8:41 PM
I used to call and talk to Johnny. They were small and did custom work back then. Then they got really really busy... and that's the whole idea in business, but it's hard to mainatin that one-on-one appeal that you have when you're small and looking for work.

Really though, there's ony a few things (17-4ph barrel steel) that make Noveske stuff work the $$, and a .358 spectre aint one of them.

(ps... I have a .338 whisper barrel and mags and dies and brass for sale. pm if interested. .338 gives you option for lighter bullets (215), and can go as heavy as .35. 300gr subsonic loads sound like a .22LR. 215s can make up to 1900 fps.)

penguinofsleep
10-12-2012, 8:47 PM
nothing unclear to me at all in the first email. sure, it could have been worded differently to be more professional, but it was pretty straightforward to me. choice of words was perfectly clear from a tech perspective - he can spend x time making many barrels (or w/e product) that he knows how to do for sure and has his setup already good for, or he can spend that same amount of time making 1 barrel in some odd caliber that he may not even nail on the first try. as for noveske and this particular tech joel, i have received good help from him in the past over the phone.

2nd email was totally unnecessary and a bit dick but i have seen way worse outside of the firearms industry (not directed at myself though). no excuse for this kind of email, but like plisk said, he is a tech, not CS.

also, every tech i have ever talked to or worked with (although not firearms industry) is always VERY busy doing their technical work. he was probably a bit upset that he had to break his flow and concentration to communicate with you twice after he (as he understood it) had already said no. again, no excuse for this behavior, but just saying.

that and i dont know a nice way of saying it, but the majority of people i have met in the firearms world have always been a bit... different. and sometimes a bit lacking or unrefined socially (no offense to anyone). kind of like when you walk into a room of full of engineers, artsy musicians, or say fashion/design students, you know who they are before you have to ask. combine with all of the above.

Horton Fenty
10-12-2012, 8:50 PM
joel@noveske.com: "Thanks, but we are not interested. Kindly, Joel"

joel@noveske.com: "Thanks but we are not interested,,, in making you a baaarrrrrellll in .35 cal. Kindly, Joel"

He could of just said no to original question and left it at that. To say he's not interested makes it sound like of course we can do it but it's either not worth our time or we won't do it for you, or both. The response to your follow up question puzzled me, made me wonder how the hell this guy got his job and how he has managed to keep it. Get that guy away from the phones and the email. Spelling the word barrel out that way says good old Joel has assumed you are slow, so I'm going to go ahead and assume Joel is a half retarded moron like someone else mentioned.

underworld
10-12-2012, 9:13 PM
The responsed was rude sounds like coming from a person that is not educated at all. May be he's getting bored with his life as a technician and wanting to go to college now. Yeah he should do that! Be professional!

TheHammerOfTruth
10-12-2012, 9:39 PM
Noveske has always been full of clowns and if you look, this wont be the first time someone has said this about them. Fan boy merchandise...OK, i can agree with that. It is decent quality but also overpriced. Same thing can be said for the nonsense you hear from LaRue.
Either way, the guy was out of line.

MXRider
10-12-2012, 9:46 PM
Send a pm to AR15barrels here, he would know who to talk to if he won't do it himself.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

jcjt
10-12-2012, 10:07 PM
Welcome to the gun industry. Harden the F*** up.


I see no issue with the response, 100% no frills and to the point.

That response the op received was not to the point, and contained sarcastic, snarky 'frills'. His response did not directly provide any indication for noveske to support the ops request. If I sent an email to a potential customer who is asking if I can support their program with "not interested" I would surely see my career go down the drain.

A no frills to the point response would be "sorry we want be able to make that"

I see even more value to customer service in the gun industry. It seems competitive with many companies essentially offering the same mil spec product.

In addition, customer service is even more critical, at least for me, when picking a local gun shop to support. Do they treat potential customers like used toilet paper? If so, I'm taking my money elsewhere. Good customer service always leaves a good impression from me and I would buy my products through them, even if its s little more expensive than online retailers.

AleksandreCz
10-12-2012, 10:27 PM
That response the op received was not to the point, and contained sarcastic, snarky 'frills'. His response did not directly provide any indication for noveske to support the ops request. If I sent an email to a potential customer who is asking if I can support their program with "not interested" I would surely see my career go down the drain.

A no frills to the point response would be "sorry we want be able to make that"

I see even more value to customer service in the gun industry. It seems competitive with many companies essentially offering the same mil spec product.

In addition, customer service is even more critical, at least for me, when picking a local gun shop to support. Do they treat potential customers like used toilet paper? If so, I'm taking my money elsewhere. Good customer service always leaves a good impression from me and I would buy my products through them, even if its s little more expensive than online retailers.

Exactly. If you do not have customer service skills don't deal with customers.
This Joel Might be really good at what he does in the back but he should not be allowed to answer customer calls or emails. Noveske Hire someone to Answer Customers some one polite and it will pay of in the Long run (I am Available If you guys are reading this Resume available upon request)
This is at very Least what he should have wrote back
Unfortunately we cannot undertake this order at this time in the future we might be able to help you. Kindly Joel
Takes 30 seconds longer which he spent typing out the second email anyway And Monkey Boy would come back to spend his money with Noveske at a later time when he would be purchasing something that they make/have available.

durandal
10-12-2012, 10:34 PM
And have you ever run a company? Or been a manager? Have you ever had one of your customer service people snark at a customer like that? Would you tolerate it? I have fired people for less obnoxious comments. I have had to fire people I liked because they pulled stunts like that. I had no choice. If that guy had pulled a stunt like that working for me, I would have handed him a final check within an hour. And I wouldn't have even felt bad about it. The gun industry is no different than any other industry. And no manager in any company worth a damn would put up with that either. If you believe any differently, you wouldn't last as a manager/owner/boss. Your customers come first. They are your source of income. And in case you haven't noticed, stunts like that generate a huge amount of negative feedback. How many hundred views does this one post have? In what? less than 6 hours? Do you honestly think that any employer wants this kind of post, with their employee's own words, plastered all over the net?

As for the .35 being an oddball, well, yes. That was why I was contacting Pac Nor. They make custom barrels. They just had a new tab on their website for AR15s. I figured I would give it a try.

-Mb

I wish you ran *** ****. they are proper ***holes and need your perspective.

killshot44
10-12-2012, 10:40 PM
The guy tells you kindly that they're not interested making a barrel for your .35cal AR project.
What's the problem?

Some people look for insults that aren't there.

NSR500
10-12-2012, 10:49 PM
And have you ever run a company? Or been a manager? Have you ever had one of your customer service people snark at a customer like that? Would you tolerate it? I have fired people for less obnoxious comments. I have had to fire people I liked because they pulled stunts like that. I had no choice. If that guy had pulled a stunt like that working for me, I would have handed him a final check within an hour. And I wouldn't have even felt bad about it. The gun industry is no different than any other industry. And no manager in any company worth a damn would put up with that either. If you believe any differently, you wouldn't last as a manager/owner/boss. Your customers come first. They are your source of income. And in case you haven't noticed, stunts like that generate a huge amount of negative feedback. How many hundred views does this one post have? In what? less than 6 hours? Do you honestly think that any employer wants this kind of post, with their employee's own words, plastered all over the net?

As for the .35 being an oddball, well, yes. That was why I was contacting Pac Nor. They make custom barrels. They just had a new tab on their website for AR15s. I figured I would give it a try.

-Mb

:yawn:

Noveske will continue to do great business in spite of overly sensitive Californians. As long as they make great gear they'll continue to have a following and be able to price their gear accordingly.
Larry Ellison is a ***** and yet Oracle does very well. They do very well because their products & services are top notch. That's why Noveske, LaRue, and the other industry leaders with attitude will do just fine.

NSR500
10-12-2012, 10:52 PM
The guy tells you kindly that they're not interested making a barrel for your .35cal AR project.
What's the problem?

Some people look for insults that aren't there.

Now you're just making too much sense.

God forbid you upset the sensitive and draw on their attention. Who knows... You might have to endure a lengthy insignificant post on the fallacy of customers always being 'right'.

NSR500
10-12-2012, 10:55 PM
That response the op received was not to the point, and contained sarcastic, snarky 'frills'. His response did not directly provide any indication for noveske to support the ops request. If I sent an email to a potential customer who is asking if I can support their program with "not interested" I would surely see my career go down the drain.

A no frills to the point response would be "sorry we want be able to make that"

I see even more value to customer service in the gun industry. It seems competitive with many companies essentially offering the same mil spec product.

In addition, customer service is even more critical, at least for me, when picking a local gun shop to support. Do they treat potential customers like used toilet paper? If so, I'm taking my money elsewhere. Good customer service always leaves a good impression from me and I would buy my products through them, even if its s little more expensive than online retailers.


:fud:

Y'all are on a witch hunt to crucify someone because a sensitive person couldn't read the plain English text saying that they're not interested.

paco ramirez
10-12-2012, 11:10 PM
:fud:

Y'all are on a witch hunt to crucify someone because a sensitive person couldn't read the plain English text saying that they're not interested.

True story.

The first reply you received was very cut and dry, OP.

projectalpha
10-12-2012, 11:28 PM
Now you're just making too much sense.

God forbid you upset the sensitive and draw on their attention. Who knows... You might have to endure a lengthy insignificant post on the fallacy of customers always being 'right'.

you sound like a CSR

ArkinDomino
10-12-2012, 11:42 PM
That's strange. I've had pleasant phone conversations with not just John (Noveske) but also Sheri and Joel. Maybe he was having a mad morning...

Lord knows I get 'em. I'm not excusing such a terrible CS response though.

NSR500
10-12-2012, 11:45 PM
you sound like a CSR

I am.

Why don't you give me a call at 1.800.999.DIAF. :popcorn:

projectalpha
10-12-2012, 11:52 PM
I am.

Why don't you give me a call at 1.800.999.DIAF. :popcorn:

lol, u mad

NSR500
10-12-2012, 11:55 PM
lol, u mad

You wish.

However you must be since I struck a nerve. Noveske must have given you a bad time and forced you to go with another brand.

projectalpha
10-13-2012, 12:03 AM
You wish.

However you must be since I struck a nerve. Noveske must have given you a bad time and forced you to go with another brand.
yup, u mad lol

I actually have a noveske and love it.

NSR500
10-13-2012, 12:09 AM
yup, u mad lol

I actually have a noveske and love it.

:popcorn:

LOL... I knew it, you're butt hurt. That's why this is so personal. You own a Noveske and probably got the smack down from their CSR (Joel) for having such n00b questions. :smilielol5:

nothing4u
10-13-2012, 12:16 AM
They don't want your money, I'm sure someone else will take it.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-13-2012, 6:50 AM
You know NSR, you seem to be pushing their defense an awful lot. And you seem to be stressing the fact that there was nothing wrong with their responses despite the fact that the majority of the people responding here think that it was poor customer service. Maybe there is a translation problem between Texas and the rest of the country. But you never tell a potential customer that you are "not interested" when they ask you a question. Your interest has nothing to do with the situation. Either you can do or can't do what they are asking. There is no "interest" involved. Saying that you are not interested implies that yes, you can indeed do it, but that the customer just isn't worth your time to bother. You can whine that I am being overly sensative. And pound your chest and make manly noises on your computer to show the rest of us how jaded and grown up you are. Good for you. But that doesn't change the fact that it was crappy customer service in the eyes of most people on here.

-Mb

myk
10-13-2012, 7:08 AM
Was it Joel "Biden" that sent the snarky reply?

geeknow
10-13-2012, 7:32 AM
OP,

I don't own a Noveske, or have a dog in the fight. However, I am a manufacturer (different industry). I think that the first email was acceptable. As a manufacturer, I know the logic behind "doing what you do well" and not trying to do things that you've never done...from a business standpoint. Yes, it's exciting to break new ground and make something new. However, from a business standpoint, sticking to your core product, making that product well and efficiently, and supporting it is what makes good business sense. Can Noveske make the barrel that you described? Probably, but at what cost to the other products that they make well...and profitably. The way that I interpret the initial response is along those lines. Could it have been said with more polish? Absolutely. Was the response rude? I don't believe so. The information that he conveyed was succinct, and to the point. No, they don't make those barrels. No, I would not look for them to make them anytime soon.

His second email was just plain rude. No excuses there.

Is it worth making a federal case? Respectfully, I think your time is better spent finding someone who can make the barrel you're chasing. As another member mentioned, try Randall at AR15barrels. His work is held in pretty high regard around here, and from what I can tell, he's forgotten more on the subject than I'll ever learn.

Good luck,

g

Capybara
10-13-2012, 8:01 AM
Life is too short to give your hard earned money to dicks.

Horton Fenty
10-13-2012, 8:04 AM
:yawn:

Noveske will continue to do great business in spite of overly sensitive Californians. As long as they make great gear they'll continue to have a following and be able to price their gear accordingly.
Larry Ellison is a ***** and yet Oracle does very well. They do very well because their products & services are top notch. That's why Noveske, LaRue, and the other industry leaders with attitude will do just fine.

Sounds like you'd fit right in.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-13-2012, 8:12 AM
OP,

I don't own a Noveske, or have a dog in the fight. However, I am a manufacturer (different industry). I think that the first email was acceptable. As a manufacturer, I know the logic behind "doing what you do well" and not trying to do things that you've never done...from a business standpoint. Yes, it's exciting to break new ground and make something new. However, from a business standpoint, sticking to your core product, making that product well and efficiently, and supporting it is what makes good business sense. Can Noveske make the barrel that you described? Probably, but at what cost to the other products that they make well...and profitably. The way that I interpret the initial response is along those lines. Could it have been said with more polish? Absolutely. Was the response rude? I don't believe so. The information that he conveyed was succinct, and to the point. No, they don't make those barrels. No, I would not look for them to make them anytime soon.

His second email was just plain rude. No excuses there.

Is it worth making a federal case? Respectfully, I think your time is better spent finding someone who can make the barrel you're chasing. As another member mentioned, try Randall at AR15barrels. His work is held in pretty high regard around here, and from what I can tell, he's forgotten more on the subject than I'll ever learn.

Good luck,

g

I don't fault them for not wanting to make a barrel that is likely to be far outside of what they normally do. I don't have any issues with that at all. And I fully plan to take this project to Randall when it gets that far. It was his work on a .35 caliber AR that got me interested in this concept in the first place. The only thing in this whole situation that bothered me was the tone of the communication. That is what irked me. I am not trying to make a federal case of it. I just thought that people should know when a manufacturer pulls a bone-headed stunt like this. I have already moved on, and I am looking elsewhere for the parts I need.

-Mb

Fast Eddie
10-13-2012, 8:14 AM
:yawn:
They do very well because their products & services are top notch. That's why Noveske, LaRue, and the other industry leaders with attitude will do just fine.
There are plenty of top notch manufacturers that have CSR's that aren't *****s, I know where my money is being spent.;)

bighead
10-13-2012, 8:24 AM
:yawn:

Noveske will continue to do great business in spite of overly sensitive Californians. As long as they make great gear they'll continue to have a following and be able to price their gear accordingly.
Larry Ellison is a ***** and yet Oracle does very well. They do very well because their products & services are top notch. That's why Noveske, LaRue, and the other industry leaders with attitude will do just fine.

Did you just compare Larry Ellison with the "parts" guy at Noveske?

Dumb analagy is dumb.No disrespect meant, carry on.

mrvash
10-13-2012, 8:28 AM
I, thank you, OP!
I'm in the market for another rifle and a Noveske rifle was one I was considering, until now. I will not support that kind of ill attitude from their CSR. The CSR represents the company, and if Noveske allows that individual to reflect the company as one who speaks down to potential customers, I'll pass.

hellayella
10-13-2012, 9:02 AM
my point would to clarify what you've said and if their response is valid and honest, then ok...but if they are blowing u off then find another vendor..we live in the capitilistic free world and we are free to choose whatever suits out needs!

Mute
10-13-2012, 9:16 AM
How ironic. You don't understand how people don't find the 2nd Noveske response rude, yet, you don't see how your 2nd email asking them to explain themselves was rude?

I probably would have handled it differently, but your 2nd email is just plain silly. You ask them if they can make a non-standard barrel. They said they weren't interested. How, exactly, is that hard to understand? What did you think they weren't interested in? Just doing business with you? Singing a heart-felt round of Kumbaya with a new-found friend?

Horton Fenty
10-13-2012, 9:41 AM
How ironic. You don't understand how people don't find the 2nd Noveske response rude, yet, you don't see how your 2nd email asking them to explain themselves was rude?

I probably would have handled it differently, but your 2nd email is just plain silly. You ask them if they can make a non-standard barrel. They said they weren't interested. How, exactly, is that hard to understand? What did you think they weren't interested in? Just doing business with you? Singing a heart-felt round of Kumbaya with a new-found friend?

I wouldn't of even wasted my time emailed him back but my though process would of been something like this. Thanks? Thanks for what? I'm not selling something, I want to buy something dummy. Not interested? In what? Making what I'm looking for? Money? Doing work? What? Kindly? Fu Joel.

SoCalXD
10-13-2012, 9:45 AM
He said thanx we are not interested. I get it. Its not like they do one-offs regularly for people. Not sure why you got confused. I have no issues with Noveske or the responce you got.

:iagree:

Plisk
10-13-2012, 9:51 AM
I, thank you, OP!
I'm in the market for another rifle and a Noveske rifle was one I was considering, until now. I will not support that kind of ill attitude from their CSR. The CSR represents the company, and if Noveske allows that individual to reflect the company as one who speaks down to potential customers, I'll pass.

You completely missed the point. The individual that the OP communicated with is NOT a Customer Service Rep. He's a technician.

Horton Fenty
10-13-2012, 10:07 AM
You completely missed the point. The individual that the OP communicated with is NOT a Customer Service Rep. He's a technician.


Doesn't matter if he's customer service or the janitor.

cmichini
10-13-2012, 10:16 AM
Well, I would forward that message to Pacnor and tell them that they might want to have a classier shop do their AR barrels from now on and then buy your blank from Lothar Walther.

That was rude and they should have been less ambiguous in their first response.

Probably the best option.

If you as a single customer get PO'd by bad service they probably don't care (they should but...).

If you let the guys that put the link that their provider is a d-bag and someone else got the money, and suggest they rethink their link. You have a better chance of the large customer saying WTF to someone, way above the gun-toting monkey boy level.

But I agree, they are not the end-all, be-all. Buy from someone that appreciates your business, let the web-world know their CS blows and get on with life.

killshot44
10-13-2012, 10:20 AM
Doesn't matter if he's customer service or the janitor.

Can we get this thread closed? It's getting stupid in here; see above.

Plisk
10-13-2012, 10:21 AM
Doesn't matter if he's customer service or the janitor.

Read mrvash's post.

RangemasterP226
10-13-2012, 10:27 AM
Don't spend your life looking for perceived insults.

He answered your question with a bit of humor. This is why we can't have funny things.

Lighten up!

Horton Fenty
10-13-2012, 10:39 AM
Can we get this thread closed? It's getting stupid in here; see above.

I don't know about the rest of ya all but if I work for a company, and I care about it's success, and my job I treat all potential customers with the same level of respect I give my mother. I mind my p&q's and try to be as helpful as possible. I don't think that's stupid to expect from every employee.

rojocorsa
10-13-2012, 11:19 AM
That response the op received was not to the point, and contained sarcastic, snarky 'frills'. His response did not directly provide any indication for noveske to support the ops request. If I sent an email to a potential customer who is asking if I can support their program with "not interested" I would surely see my career go down the drain.

A no frills to the point response would be "sorry we want be able to make that"

I see even more value to customer service in the gun industry. It seems competitive with many companies essentially offering the same mil spec product.

In addition, customer service is even more critical, at least for me, when picking a local gun shop to support. Do they treat potential customers like used toilet paper? If so, I'm taking my money elsewhere. Good customer service always leaves a good impression from me and I would buy my products through them, even if its s little more expensive than online retailers.



Oh, I agree through and through with your post.



Technical or not, Joel's choice of words was not the best.


Regarding brick and mortar shops, many of them seem to put off a bad attitude so **** 'em. They better not ***** when they go out of business. You reap what you sow.

On the other hand, treat people well and it will pay off.

Apec
10-13-2012, 11:37 AM
I had a not-quite similar situation dealing with someone over GunBroker, who I was trying to convince to SSE some crappy Para 1911. I offered to send him the parts to do it. Got a "sorry not interested" reply.

I moved on. That guy had terrible grammar/spelling throughout most of his email reply. I figured he probably didn't know how to field strip the gun to do the SSE conversion.

Mute
10-13-2012, 12:37 PM
I wouldn't of even wasted my time emailed him back but my though process would of been something like this. Thanks? Thanks for what? I'm not selling something, I want to buy something dummy. Not interested? In what? Making what I'm looking for? Money? Doing work? What? Kindly? Fu Joel.

This is a precise demonstration of the "customer is ALWAYS right" mentality that comes across as rude and entitled. Fu Joel? For what? For not being interested in making a one-off, non-typical item which, if they did try to make and quote you a realistic price on, you'd probably call them crooks and bad mouth them anyways? Are you telling me that you would actually pay the proper compensation that is necessary for them to buy a tool specifically needed and the disruption to their normal operations necessary to produce such an item? Since when is "no, thank you", not a good enough answer.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-13-2012, 12:53 PM
This is a precise demonstration of the "customer is ALWAYS right" mentality that comes across as rude and entitled. Fu Joel? For what? For not being interested in making a one-off, non-typical item which, if they did try to make and quote you a realistic price on, you'd probably call them crooks and bad mouth them anyways? Are you telling me that you would actually pay the proper compensation that is necessary for them to buy a tool specifically needed and the disruption to their normal operations necessary to produce such an item? Since when is "no, thank you", not a good enough answer.

"No," or "no thank" you would have been perfectly acceptable. But you will notice that he didn't say that. The extra headers that I didn't post showed that it had been bounced around their office. His "Thanks but we are not interested" didn't answer any of the questions I had asked. Nor could I tell if he was speaking to me, or one of the other people that had forwarded it to him. And as many of the others have pointed out, you don't tell a customer that you are not interested. You give them a clear cut yes or no. It isn't a matter of the customer always being right. It is a matter of how you interact with your customers. I went there trying to find out if they could do something. I got an ambiguous answer that did not directly address the questions I had asked. When I asked for clarification, I got a rude and sarcastic response. This isn't a case of me being an overly sensitive Californian. This is a case of somebody who doesn't have the skill set to respond to customers blowing an interaction with a potential client.

-Mb

Mute
10-13-2012, 12:59 PM
"No," or "no thank" you would have been perfectly acceptable. But you will notice that he didn't say that. The extra headers that I didn't post showed that it had been bounced around their office. His "Thanks but we are not interested" didn't answer any of the questions I had asked. Nor could I tell if he was speaking to me, or one of the other people that had forwarded it to him. And as many of the others have pointed out, you don't tell a customer that you are not interested. You give them a clear cut yes or no. It isn't a matter of the customer always being right. It is a matter of how you interact with your customers. I went there trying to find out if they could do something. I got an ambiguous answer that did not directly address the questions I had asked. When I asked for clarification, I got a rude and sarcastic response. This isn't a case of me being an overly sensitive Californian. This is a case of somebody who doesn't have the skill set to respond to customers blowing an interaction with a potential client.

Mb

What is unclear about NOT INTERESTED? That's a NO to me. And what question did he not answer? Cost? If they're not interested that pretty much means they can't even give you a cost. If you're looking for a .35 AR barrel, you should already know that that is an atypical item. Had you not started off with a chip on your shoulder and simply asked a CLEAR question like, "is the cost prohibitive", you might have gotten a straight answer.

You don't think your 2nd email was rude? I sure thought it was.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-13-2012, 1:36 PM
What is unclear about NOT INTERESTED? That's a NO to me. And what question did he not answer? Cost? If they're not interested that pretty much means they can't even give you a cost. If you're looking for a .35 AR barrel, you should already know that that is an atypical item. Had you not started off with a chip on your shoulder and simply asked a CLEAR question like, "is the cost prohibitive", you might have gotten a straight answer.

You don't think your 2nd email was rude? I sure thought it was.

No, I don't think it was rude. And I have never had any business tell me that they were "not interested" when asked if they could do something. Ever. As for which question did he not answer, let's take a look at the two questions I asked.

1) "I am looking for an unchambered .35 caliber AR barrel. Is that something that you can make?"

Hmmm.. "Thanks but we are not interested." doesn't seem like an answer to that. I guess that if you stretch it, it might be taken for a grammatically incorrect negative. But it doesn't really relate to the subject of the question.

2) "And if so, how much would it cost?"

"Thanks but we are not interested." Nope, that doesn't make much sense either.

And how would you react if you went into a business, like, let's say a McDonalds, and when you went to order a Big Mac, they just looked at you and said "Thanks, but we are not interested."? Does that make any kind of sense? Is that the kind of answer you would ever expect from a McDonalds? Would you decide that this is the fast food industry and you need to harden the F___ up? Or would you say something along the lines of "Huh?" And then try to figure out what they were talking about? It is all well and good to say "That was a clear answer, and I would just walk out." But my guess is that it wouldn't be your first reaction.

-Mb

NSR500
10-13-2012, 1:37 PM
Did you just compare Larry Ellison with the "parts" guy at Noveske?

Dumb analagy is dumb.No disrespect meant, carry on.

* Analogy

MXRider
10-13-2012, 1:57 PM
No, I don't think it was rude. And I have never had any business tell me that they were "not interested" when asked if they could do something. Ever. As for which question did he not answer, let's take a look at the two questions I asked.

1) "I am looking for an unchambered .35 caliber AR barrel. Is that something that you can make?"

Hmmm.. "Thanks but we are not interested." doesn't seem like an answer to that. I guess that if you stretch it, it might be taken for a grammatically incorrect negative. But it doesn't really relate to the subject of the question.

2) "And if so, how much would it cost?"

"Thanks but we are not interested." Nope, that doesn't make much sense either.

And how would you react if you went into a business, like, let's say a McDonalds, and when you went to order a Big Mac, they just looked at you and said "Thanks, but we are not interested."? Does that make any kind of sense? Is that the kind of answer you would ever expect from a McDonalds? Would you decide that this is the fast food industry and you need to harden the F___ up? Or would you say something along the lines of "Huh?" And then try to figure out what they were talking about? It is all well and good to say "That was a clear answer, and I would just walk out." But my guess is that it wouldn't be your first reaction.

-Mb

Really? I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. He said they weren't interested, and to me it was very clear the first time. Move on.

bear308
10-13-2012, 2:17 PM
Wouldn't it be more akin to McDonalds telling they were not interested in making you a sub sandwich.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-13-2012, 2:19 PM
Wouldn't it be more akin to McDonalds telling they were not interested in making you a sub sandwich.

Only if I had gone into the sub sandwich place and they had directed me to McDonalds. ;)

rojocorsa
10-13-2012, 2:20 PM
I get what the OP is trying to say; it all stems from Joel's a poor word choice.


"Thanks not interested" is the reply you give to someone when they try to sell you stuff, not when you're asking to buy. The reply is ambiguous at best.


"No." or "We can't do that." would be better responses.


OP asked for something; he didn't offer anything. The response he was given makes no sense.

Rorge Retson
10-13-2012, 2:23 PM
A simple...

****************
Dear GTMB -

Thanks for your request. Unfortunately, at this point in time, we do not have the necessary market demand for us to produce a .35 cal blank. Other manufacturers who might be able to help you are Company XYZ as well as PDQ Corporation.

If, after a period of time, you are still not able to find someone to produce your barrel, please contact us again. We may have by that time received enough requests by then to decide to make that particular blank.

Best,
Joe Schmoe
Noveske Tech

****************

...would have sufficed.

See? Now that wasn't THAT painful, was it??

:D

bighead
10-13-2012, 2:57 PM
* Analogy

lol, thanks.Just finished my expository writing class, apparently to no avail.

NSR500
10-13-2012, 3:12 PM
LOL! ;)

Mute
10-13-2012, 3:57 PM
Let's use your McDonald's analogy more accurately. What you asked was whether they could make you a hamburger with 8 patties and some special sauce that they don't even have in their kitchen and you were told, "not interested."

Granted the 2nd email from the guy at Noveske was uncalled for, but if you think you weren't rude...you have a perception problem.

mrvash
10-13-2012, 4:41 PM
You completely missed the point. The individual that the OP communicated with is NOT a Customer Service Rep. He's a technician.

With all due respect; if Noveske received an e-mail from a potential consumer about a product that the customer is interested in purchasing or just an inquiry, and they pass the e-mail down to their technician versus their designated customer service representative, then that goes to show lack of effort on the company all together. You'd expect such a well-known company to have their own CS department who are trained to answer questions and deal with the public clearly, concisely and tactfully.

Disclaimer: I'm not posting here to stir up an argument, just stating, what I thought, was obvious bad customer-to-consumer relation practices from a prestigious company.

CHS
10-13-2012, 5:12 PM
Your original question indicates that you're not really knowledgeable about how AR barrels are made. You wanted an unchambered AR barrel. That's just a barrel blank and nothing more. AFTER an AR barrel is chambered, then you drill the gas port and thread the chamber end so that you can add a barrel extension.

Did you actually want an AR barrel with extension and gas port drilled, but with no chamber? Because that's really weird. Also, how would they drill the gas port if they don't know what you're actually going to chamber the barrel in? You don't just drill a random sized gas port.

BigRobb
10-13-2012, 5:15 PM
With all due respect; if Noveske received an e-mail from a potential consumer about a product that the customer is interested in purchasing or just an inquiry, and they pass the e-mail down to their technician versus their designated customer service representative, then that goes to show lack of effort on the company all together. You'd expect such a well-known company to have their own CS department who are trained to answer questions and deal with the public clearly, concisely and tactfully.

Disclaimer: I'm not posting here to stir up an argument, just stating, what I thought, was obvious bad customer-to-consumer relation practices from a prestigious company.

I believe what happened is the CSR received the OP's email and didn't know if it was possible or not. The CSR probably then forwarded it to the tech or went "hey take a look at this question and see if we can do it" The tech, probably busy just put out a quick reply and moved on. There is a reason why a CSR isn't a tech...as well as why a tech isn't a CSR.

If what I stated above makes any sense (who knows I could be completely wrong, but I think it does) then the initial reply would make sense. Short, and to the point. "no, not interested" and probably back to work he went. Could have been worded better, but still a clear "no".

As for the second response...probably made him go "REALLY?!" but should have been handled by a CSR. That could have avoided this crazy thread.

Lastly, there is that "customer is always right" entitlement going around alot more these days. People will make absolute fools of themselves just to get their way at times. Often treating people terribly when it is out of their control anyways. Akin to a toddler throwing a tantrum. I am not saying this is what the OP was doing...but this thread has some of this kind of mentality in some of the replies. Yes, a customer is important. Yes you want their business. But, going up to a burger joint and asking for Chinese food probably isn't possible. So they tell you no. Asking them "are you REALLY sure you can't make Chinese food? You do make food afterall" will make people angry.

readysetgo
10-13-2012, 5:24 PM
A simple...

****************
Dear GTMB -

Thanks for your request. Unfortunately, at this point in time, we do not have the necessary market demand for us to produce a .35 cal blank. Other manufacturers who might be able to help you are Company XYZ as well as PDQ Corporation.

If, after a period of time, you are still not able to find someone to produce your barrel, please contact us again. We may have by that time received enough requests by then to decide to make that particular blank.

Best,
Joe Schmoe
Noveske Tech

****************

...would have sufficed.

See? Now that wasn't THAT painful, was it??

:D

^^^ This almost word for word. No money goes to that biz with the OP response. Plenty want our money and will at least reach around ;)

gesundheit
10-13-2012, 5:35 PM
He said thanx we are not interested. I get it. Its not like they do one-offs regularly for people. Not sure why you got confused. I have no issues with Noveske or the responce you got.

Dude I hope to god you don't respond to your customers like this. I am a big Noveske fan-boy but this is a horrible way to deal with a potential customer.

If someone from Noveske is reading this, Joel needs to have a barrel pulled from his ***. Apparently it is stuck in there somewhere.

I believe what happened is the CSR received the OP's email and didn't know if it was possible or not. The CSR probably then forwarded it to the tech or went "hey take a look at this question and see if we can do it" The tech, probably busy just put out a quick reply and moved on. There is a reason why a CSR isn't a tech...as well as why a tech isn't a CSR.

If what I stated above makes any sense (who knows I could be completely wrong, but I think it does) then the initial reply would make sense. Short, and to the point. "no, not interested" and probably back to work he went. Could have been worded better, but still a clear "no".

As for the second response...probably made him go "REALLY?!" but should have been handled by a CSR. That could have avoided this crazy thread.

Lastly, there is that "customer is always right" entitlement going around alot more these days. People will make absolute fools of themselves just to get their way at times. Often treating people terribly when it is out of their control anyways. Akin to a toddler throwing a tantrum. I am not saying this is what the OP was doing...but this thread has some of this kind of mentality in some of the replies. Yes, a customer is important. Yes you want their business. But, going up to a burger joint and asking for Chinese food probably isn't possible. So they tell you no. Asking them "are you REALLY sure you can't make Chinese food? You do make food afterall" will make people angry.

No I am sorry it is YOUR attitude that needs adjustment. We will do just fine without one company's products. It is Noveske that won't survive without its customers. Treating customers like **** is the best way to lose them. Joel is just a technician. He is not world's saviour or a goddamn nuclear scientist about to save the civilized world. He knew he was responding to a customer not his CSR and should be professional. Acting like a bored thirteen year old only works in his parents house. People paying hard earned money to Noveske deserve to be treated better.

mrvash
10-13-2012, 5:50 PM
I believe what happened is the CSR received the OP's email and didn't know if it was possible or not. The CSR probably then forwarded it to the tech or went "hey take a look at this question and see if we can do it" The tech, probably busy just put out a quick reply and moved on. There is a reason why a CSR isn't a tech...as well as why a tech isn't a CSR.

If what I stated above makes any sense (who knows I could be completely wrong, but I think it does) then the initial reply would make sense. Short, and to the point. "no, not interested" and probably back to work he went. Could have been worded better, but still a clear "no".


The scenario you mentioned is most likely what had transpired there. However, whether Joel was a CSR, techinician or a janitor that is no excuse for lack of class and to be completely rude in the reponse to the OP's e-mail. Also, may I add that if the CSR received a question regarding something they may not know, it would be best to ask the proper employee who does have the knowledge and get back to the OP with the results, other than just passing the e-mail along, doing so would most likely avoided this fiasco.

If Joel is so busy with his current job duties, then it makes me wonder why Noveske gave Joel an e-mail account to deal with the public on occassion despite his work load. Seems like poor management, cause it seems to me that Joel is not capable of multitasking: interacting respectfully with customers and his technician duties.

glock7
10-13-2012, 5:54 PM
Some companies have great cs and some have lousy cs. I've run into some bad gun shops and good gun shops as far as cs. The best thing is to cut your losses and move on. We live in an age where people aren't that intelligent when it comes to certain things. I've seen it in this thread. Here's a little tip for you, most of them don't even know I'm talking about them.....move on OP and get your barrel somewhere else that feel comfortable giving your hard earned money to. Good luck.

nitroxdiver
10-13-2012, 5:54 PM
Asshat response from them. F 'em.


Sent from classified location using Tapatalk.

Inquirer
10-13-2012, 6:16 PM
I think the first response was plenty clear, I think the second response was pretty unwarranted.

Vote with your dollar and take your business elsewhere. I understand your frustration at that response, but it's pretty extreme to get indignant that they'd dare "treat a customer" like that if you're not actually going to be buying something from them.

sffred
10-13-2012, 6:30 PM
Joel is kinda blunt, he's overwhelmed with emails and they do not do custom work. He promised me some jobs, then all of a sudden backed out and said he does not do that anymore.

A pot of people talk **** about their barrels, I own 2 and believe there isn't any barrel that will be more accurate than Noveske's barrel (from 77gr to 82 gr.) If you shoot 75 grain and lower there are other barrel manufacturers that makes more accurate barrels but really pertains to a lower projectile weight.
Pac Nor saves the best metal purity blanks for Noveske, since they are Pac nor's highest bidder on their barrel blanks. So all the other manufacturers that grabs blanks from Pac Nor are not in the same par as Noveske's blanks. Call Pac nor and confirm if you like.

And imho there is only 2 manufacturers that makes the best cold hammer forged chrome lined barrels... Noveske and FN herstal. I still give FN herstal the up on Noveske because since Noveske been rushing products out faster and faster. I think their QC is being rushed. I shot a friend's new chrome lined barrel and comparred to mine. And noticed it wasn't as accurate as my 09' model

Hoop
10-13-2012, 6:30 PM
Vote with your dollar and take your business elsewhere.

I never would have emailed them in the first place.

Tons of companies out there making custom AR barrels or pick another caliber that's readily available like 6.8 or 6.5.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-13-2012, 6:33 PM
Your original question indicates that you're not really knowledgeable about how AR barrels are made. You wanted an unchambered AR barrel. That's just a barrel blank and nothing more. AFTER an AR barrel is chambered, then you drill the gas port and thread the chamber end so that you can add a barrel extension.

Did you actually want an AR barrel with extension and gas port drilled, but with no chamber? Because that's really weird. Also, how would they drill the gas port if they don't know what you're actually going to chamber the barrel in? You don't just drill a random sized gas port.

I know how the barrels are made, and yes, I really was looking for just a blank, already turned down to the approximate size. That was all I was looking for, hence why I was at Pac Nor barrels in the first place. I didn't need anything other than a metal tube with rifling, and the correct outer diameter. That would be why I asked for a barrel blank. (edit) Sorry, that was in the header that I didn't copy over. The title of the email to them was AR barrel blank.

And again, the chinese food analogy doesn't hold up. There was a link saying "AR barrels, right this way..." So it would be like going into the chinese food restaurant, seeing a sign saying "Chinese food over here" pointing to the burger joint across the street, following it, and then being given a non sequitor answer when I asked for the lo mein. I think most people on here understood my confusion at their answer. Rojocorsa summed it up best in his post.

-Mb

Hoop
10-13-2012, 6:40 PM
And imho there is only 2 manufacturers that makes the best cold hammer forged chrome lined barrels... Noveske and FN herstal

Noveske barrels are FN produced same as Centurion and PSA.

CHS
10-13-2012, 6:50 PM
I know how the barrels are made, and yes, I really was looking for just a blank, already turned down to the approximate size. That was all I was looking for, hence why I was at Pac Nor barrels in the first place. I didn't need anything other than a metal tube with rifling, and the correct outer diameter. That would be why I asked for a barrel blank. (edit) Sorry, that was in the header that I didn't copy over. The title of the email to them was AR barrel blank.

And again, the chinese food analogy doesn't hold up. There was a link saying "AR barrels, right this way..." So it would be like going into the chinese food restaurant, seeing a sign saying "Chinese food over here" pointing to the burger joint across the street, following it, and then being given a non sequitor answer when I asked for the lo mein. I think most people on here understood my confusion at their answer. Rojocorsa summed it up best in his post.

-Mb

Again, you're not looking for an AR barrel blank, you're just looking for a barrel blank.

If you wanted a Pacnor barrel blank, why didn't you call them and ask them for one? Why did you need an AR barrel blank specifically (which, as we just went over, don't exist), unless you don't understand that they don't exist?

Noveske makes AR barrels. Not barrel blanks.

BigRobb
10-13-2012, 6:55 PM
No I am sorry it is YOUR attitude that needs adjustment. We will do just fine without one company's products. It is Noveske that won't survive without its customers. Treating customers like **** is the best way to lose them. Joel is just a technician. He is not world's saviour or a goddamn nuclear scientist about to save the civilized world. He knew he was responding to a customer not his CSR and should be professional. Acting like a bored thirteen year old only works in his parents house. People paying hard earned money to Noveske deserve to be treated better.

I'm sorry did I somehow offend you?

In no way was I condoning how the situation was handled. I was making an observation as to how both sides can sometimes view a customer service situation. We all have been on the receiving end of both good and bad customer service. Alot of us have seen or been involved with a customer who has gone too far in a customer service situation. That is all.

As I said it should have been better worded and handled by a CSR. But in this situation it wasn't. The tech was doing the CSR's job and we see the results.

As for Noveske? I don't own any of their products and honestly haven't planned to in the future. Even before this thread. As someone stated earlier, if they handle a simple customer question in this manner, it brings questions as to how they might handle warranty work, etc.

If anything, hopefully someone at Noveske sees this thread (most likely not) and works to avoid a situation like this in the future.

CrippledPidgeon
10-13-2012, 7:03 PM
Again, you're not looking for an AR barrel blank, you're just looking for a barrel blank.

If you wanted a Pacnor barrel blank, why didn't you call them and ask them for one? Why did you need an AR barrel blank specifically (which, as we just went over, don't exist), unless you don't understand that they don't exist?

Noveske makes AR barrels. Not barrel blanks.

If you check out Pacnor's website, and click on the "AR Barrels" link, it redirects to Noveske's website. The op assumed that he would need to go through Noveske to get the barrel blank, and (I assume that he assumed) that Noveske would at least turn the barrel so all he'd need to do is cut the chamber and the gas port.

JDW67
10-13-2012, 7:07 PM
No worries, they'll fold just like Sabre did...

Mute
10-13-2012, 7:18 PM
If you check out Pacnor's website, and click on the "AR Barrels" link, it redirects to Noveske's website. The op assumed that he would need to go through Noveske to get the barrel blank, and (I assume that he assumed) that Noveske would at least turn the barrel so all he'd need to do is cut the chamber and the gas port.

If you're looking for an AR barrel, then you're not looking for a barrel blank and vice versa. Two completely different things. In order for it to be an "AR barrel" it needs the extension and the gas port. Without either of these, then, it's just a plain barrel blank. It is not a barrel for any specific platform yet. It could go into a bolt gun or an AK or what have you.

ssaction
10-13-2012, 7:32 PM
another barrel mfg: http://www.saternmachining.com/home

I haven't used them for barrels, but looks like they are in the custom machining business.

skisly
10-13-2012, 7:44 PM
"Thanks, but we are not interested. Kindly, Joel"

That "kindly" was just rubbing your nose in it. The nerve.

gesundheit
10-13-2012, 8:01 PM
I'm sorry did I somehow offend you?

In no way was I condoning how the situation was handled. I was making an observation as to how both sides can sometimes view a customer service situation. We all have been on the receiving end of both good and bad customer service. Alot of us have seen or been involved with a customer who has gone too far in a customer service situation. That is all.

As I said it should have been better worded and handled by a CSR. But in this situation it wasn't. The tech was doing the CSR's job and we see the results.

As for Noveske? I don't own any of their products and honestly haven't planned to in the future. Even before this thread. As someone stated earlier, if they handle a simple customer question in this manner, it brings questions as to how they might handle warranty work, etc.

If anything, hopefully someone at Noveske sees this thread (most likely not) and works to avoid a situation like this in the future.

In retrospect, I was rude to you and vintagearms and must apologize for it. However, in my line of work (and I am sure it happens to others as well) the real technical people are rude because a. they are busy and b. they are accustomed to acting like that since the company needs them. This seems to be the case with Joel. However, even these super-duper genius guys get the smackdown from higher ups when they act up with external customers (as opposed to being rude to their coworkers)

The reason being that bad news travel fast. If you piss off one customer, he is going to tell at least one more person. This is even more the case in this Internet age where words uttered remain extant forever. The economy is bad. FWIW, buying these barrels is not a need for most of us but a discretionary spending. Nothing will hurt any company more than employees getting testy with customers.

The only acceptable excuse for Joel's curt "Not interested" comment would be if English were not his first language. If he is a person of less words, then a simple "No" would have been more than sufficient and I would be on GTMonkeyBoy's case for getting butthurt on little things.

Again I am sorry for coming across as rude. Not my intention.

P.S. I am still a Noveske fan boy :)

gun toting monkeyboy
10-13-2012, 8:10 PM
If he had just said "no" I wouldn't have been butthurt at all. ;)

backstrap
10-13-2012, 8:53 PM
"Thanks, but we are not interested. Kindly, Joel"

That "kindly" was just rubbing your nose in it. The nerve.


How dare he!?
I laughed when I saw barrrreeeellllll. He slowed it down for you. If you say it out loud slowly you kinda get the feeling Joel had when he sounded it out. Hahaha BB aa aa rr rr ee ll ll. It is funny.

BigRobb
10-13-2012, 8:55 PM
In retrospect, I was rude to you and vintagearms and must apologize for it. However, in my line of work (and I am sure it happens to others as well) the real technical people are rude because a. they are busy and b. they are accustomed to acting like that since the company needs them. This seems to be the case with Joel. However, even these super-duper genius guys get the smackdown from higher ups when they act up with external customers (as opposed to being rude to their coworkers)

The reason being that bad news travel fast. If you piss off one customer, he is going to tell at least one more person. This is even more the case in this Internet age where words uttered remain extant forever. The economy is bad. FWIW, buying these barrels is not a need for most of us but a discretionary spending. Nothing will hurt any company more than employees getting testy with customers.

The only acceptable excuse for Joel's curt "Not interested" comment would be if English were not his first language. If he is a person of less words, then a simple "No" would have been more than sufficient and I would be on GTMonkeyBoy's case for getting butthurt on little things.

Again I am sorry for coming across as rude. Not my intention.

P.S. I am still a Noveske fan boy :)

No harm no foul man!

I know first hand how bad news travels like wildfire and how good news usually travels at the speed of an overweight carrier pigeon. Many years I did sales that were 100% commission. I lived or died quite literally through customer service. Even if a customer is being completely outrageous to you, you bend over backwards to make them happy (within reason of course). Even if they weren't 100% happy first off, it's best to make it right to avoid collateral damage. Your very successful business can dry up quickly if you don't handle a customer properly.

One thing that is lost on many people is this:

In a high volume atmosphere, ONE customer complaint has to be looked at as there are possibly 99 more customers out there that are also unhappy for the same reason. The other 99 just didn't take the time to tell you. Probably 25 of those people will never come back to do business with you again. And all of these people have friends, family, and co-workers that can spread the bad news.

I am not really one to quickly write off doing business a company or person without either firsthand experience, or overwhelming evidence that screams "Stay away!" I am happy with my AR and still working on it. Sooner or later, BRD will creep up on me and will want to make use of this stripped lower sitting here all lonely. Will that be a Noveske upper? Who knows.

TL;DR

No offense taken and I agree. And I haven't written off a company off of one incident I've heard about

pgg
10-13-2012, 9:30 PM
Its sad, but I know smaller companies don't always have the time a resources to spend on customer service training.

No need to make excuses for Joel.

This is not a problem that customer service "training" can solve ... any more than "anger management" classes fix people with temper problems.

So much time and money is wasted on attempting to teach people how to be normal human beings. The people who need that kind of training can't be taught. They missed the boat around 4th grade. It's as if they've suffered a stroke that killed the part of the brain responsible for self-awareness, basic courtesy.

The guy's a douche. That's the start, middle, and end of it. :shrug: I wouldn't get worked up over it, I'd just buy elsewhere.

CrippledPidgeon
10-14-2012, 5:52 AM
If you're looking for an AR barrel, then you're not looking for a barrel blank and vice versa. Two completely different things. In order for it to be an "AR barrel" it needs the extension and the gas port. Without either of these, then, it's just a plain barrel blank. It is not a barrel for any specific platform yet. It could go into a bolt gun or an AK or what have you.

I really don't know much about barrel-making terminology because I have neither the ability nor the desire to make barrels on my own, but as I said, I assume that he wasn't looking for a proper blank, but rather a barrel that had all the work except for the chamber and the gas port done.

In any rate, he was looking for a barrel that would eventually go into an AR, and he naturally followed the link that said "AR Barrels," which directed him to Noveske.

Hoop
10-14-2012, 6:47 AM
In any rate, he was looking for a barrel that would eventually go into an AR, and he naturally followed the link that said "AR Barrels," which directed him to Noveske.

I did the same thing a long time ago when I was a noob and asked them 'how do I order one'. The answer I got in the email was 'go buy one thanks'. I ended up buying a white oak instead.

fishnbeer
10-14-2012, 6:56 AM
first response sounded clear to me :shrug:

IVC
10-14-2012, 8:16 AM
To all who say the first response was clear, consider this happening at a restaurant.

Waiter: "What would you like to drink?"
You: "Could I please have a cup of tea?"
Waiter: "Not interested."

Do you care at this point whether tea was on the menu or not, whether you were pointed to the restaurant by another restaurant or whether the waiter was really a cook who came out to handle your order?

This has nothing to do with who is right or wrong. It has all to do with how the communication is established and maintained. It's the fault of the management for not having a proper business process in place that would prevent any e-mail from non-trained, arrogant internal worker from reaching the customer. It IS the problem for the company.

projectalpha
10-14-2012, 10:33 AM
:popcorn:

LOL... I knew it, you're butt hurt. That's why this is so personal. You own a Noveske and probably got the smack down from their CSR (Joel) for having such n00b questions. :smilielol5:

seriously, y u mad tho? I can tell this because you're making up assumptions. I've had no problems w/ noveske. I came into this thread to defend them, then I saw your posts. lol, good times.

socal147
10-14-2012, 10:48 AM
Has this thread (link) been forwarded to Noveske yet. Just hearing how this situation was handled has caused me to reconsider doing business with them.

vintagearms
10-14-2012, 10:52 AM
In retrospect, I was rude to you and vintagearms and must apologize for it.

No need to apologise. Its all good. :thumbsup: You just wanted a more detailed responce from Noveske. I get it.

CHS
10-14-2012, 3:55 PM
I really don't know much about barrel-making terminology because I have neither the ability nor the desire to make barrels on my own, but as I said, I assume that he wasn't looking for a proper blank, but rather a barrel that had all the work except for the chamber and the gas port done.


Those don't exist, and you're not going to find any manufacturers willing to do that for you. The barrel extension sets the headspace. How are you going to set headspace on something without a chamber?


In any rate, he was looking for a barrel that would eventually go into an AR, and he naturally followed the link that said "AR Barrels," which directed him to Noveske.

Except he wanted a barrel blank, not an AR barrel blank (which don't exist). He should have just called pacnor directly because he was asking Noveske for something that literally doesn't exist.

ky2970
10-14-2012, 4:01 PM
I don't understand those that say the response was pretty clear... The real issue (and the thread title) is about of how Joel responded. It's just rude, plan and simple. Hell, even his first reply was much too abrupt. If I were Joel's supervisor, he would've been out the door within an hour of me seeing this.

MXRider
10-14-2012, 4:09 PM
I don't understand those who think this guy should be fired. Get the sand out of your vagina.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

ky2970
10-14-2012, 4:24 PM
I don't understand those who think this guy should be fired. Get the sand out of your vagina.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Your tactless reply is a clear representation of why you don't understand.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-14-2012, 4:42 PM
I don't understand those who think this guy should be fired. Get the sand out of your vagina.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

And this is why you clearly don't run a business. You have no concept of what customer service entails, or what is appropriate for posting on a public forum.

-Mb

MXRider
10-14-2012, 4:43 PM
Your tactless reply is a clear representation of why you don't understand.

No I just have common sense. Firing one of your knowledgeable techs because he somehow offended a customer with an email that wasn't even his job to answer most likely is not getting it.

I swear this forum is full of sensitive little girls, some of you guys get offended at anything and call for blood when you feel you've been wronged.

Get the sand out of your vagina.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

ky2970
10-14-2012, 4:54 PM
No I just have common sense. Firing one of your knowledgeable techs because he somehow offended a customer with an email that wasn't even his job to answer most likely is not getting it.

I swear this forum is full of sensitive little girls, some of you guys get offended at anything and call for blood when you feel you've been wronged.

Get the sand out of your vagina.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Coming from a family that has thrived on the hotel industry, I can tell you that no matter where the poor treatment of the customer comes from, it affects business. It doesn't matter if it's a front desk agent, mechanic, maid, or chef. If an employee wrongs a customer, it's his or her fault. Employees in excess of 10 years of service have been fired for similar things.

The simple fact is that quality customer service was expected from a namebrand quality company like Noveske.

I have no doubt you're much older than I am and it's both shameful and interesting to see the lack of coordination between age and maturity.

Manolito
10-14-2012, 5:00 PM
Customer service is what determines a company staying in business. Sears had the best Catalog business for years until their costomer service was challenged by young companies who understood how to treat customers. No more Sears Catalog. Montgomery Ward same story. Gun Manufacturers will suffer the same fate when this short lived increase in business is over.

The repeat customer is the customer that gets your company through the hard times.

One of the things Larry Potterfield says in his talks is he lost the contact with his customers and had to trust employees to give the service he gave. This one thing keeps him worried more than any thing else.

The sad thing is the owner probably never hears of this topic and his tech rep Joel or what ever his name is.

MXRider
10-14-2012, 5:01 PM
And this is why you clearly don't run a business. You have no concept of what customer service entails, or what is appropriate for posting on a public forum.

-Mb

Actually I do run a business, successfully might I ad. I deal with customers everyday, some are much better than others. People need to get the customer is always right mentality out of their head. Sometimes the customer is an idiot, and sometimes they get bent out of shape over the smallest thing.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

mrvash
10-14-2012, 5:04 PM
Actually I do run a business, successfully might I ad.

May I ask, what type of business you run? are you the sole proprietor or along the lines of a general manager?

bwiese
10-14-2012, 5:35 PM
I do not find the response "we're not interested in...." to be at all offensive, rude of intention or even abruptly dismissive.

The expression "not interested in..." really is a *polite* way of saying "No we won't do this."

We have someone here asking for a weird-*** caliber that requires special custom non-high-volume work. The net cost of doing this is a loss - likely a one-off, and incurs opportunity costs to an already-busy shop. He probably assumed overall sanity and figured the OP was smart enough to understand this.

The expression "not interested in..." really is a *polite* way of saying "No, we won't do this." without longwinded explanation.

The idea that YOU tell a BIZ what to do when they're running full out is more rude, unless there were some level of incompetence there, bad service [sent you a mangled part and wouldn't refund, for example...], etc.

And if the OP is so butt-hurt about a common turn of phrase he's really gonna be butthurt when he waits in line at the DMV, the Safeway clerk doesn't say thank-you.

Man, get a life.

bwiese
10-14-2012, 5:37 PM
Actually I do run a business, successfully might I ad. I deal with customers everyday, some are much better than others. People need to get the customer is always right mentality out of their head. Sometimes the customer is an idiot, and sometimes they get bent out of shape over the smallest thing.



There was an excellent book awhile back, Fire Your Customers which clearly showed that 10-15% of most biz' customer base are a net loss and COST money, and it would be best not to have them - even despite some revenue, and/or despite the fired customer badmouthing you.

projectalpha
10-14-2012, 5:45 PM
There was an excellent book awhile back, Fire Your Customers which clearly showed that 10-15% of most biz' customer base are a net loss and COST money, and it would be best not to have them - even despite some revenue, and/or despite the fired customer badmouthing you.

Amazon subscribes to this philosophy. I've seen people being banned for taking advantage of amazon's return policy among other things. It's a numbers game. Amazon is smart enough to take care of its good customers and 'fire' the bad ones.

MXRider
10-14-2012, 5:48 PM
May I ask, what type of business you run? are you the sole proprietor or along the lines of a general manager?

I am in charge of a business where the sole proprietor has me handle everything and only wants to rake in the money, which he is doing. I deal with 5 employees, all the money, the inventory, the ordering as well as handling customer service and the problems that come from dealing with some customers.

I also have been the sole proprietor of my own business and will be picking that up in a month when I leave this state and return to VA. I am a certified arborist and have an extensive history of running heavy equipment and logging, and I look forward to returning to that life and not having to deal with dip****s everyday.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

MXRider
10-14-2012, 5:51 PM
There was an excellent book awhile back, Fire Your Customers which clearly showed that 10-15% of most biz' customer base are a net loss and COST money, and it would be best not to have them - even despite some revenue, and/or despite the fired customer badmouthing you.

I would say 5% of my current customers are not worth my time but I continue to serve them, even though I sometimes lose money on them. Unfortunately any ******* with a yelp account can cost you more business so it's hard to tell them to piss off.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

ky2970
10-14-2012, 5:54 PM
I do not find the response "we're not interested in...." to be at all offensive, rude of intention or even abruptly dismissive.

The expression "not interested in..." really is a *polite* way of saying "No we won't do this."

We have someone here asking for a weird-*** caliber that requires special custom non-high-volume work. The net cost of doing this is a loss - likely a one-off, and incurs opportunity costs to an already-busy shop. He probably assumed overall sanity and figured the OP was smart enough to understand this.

The expression "not interested in..." really is a *polite* way of saying "No, we won't do this." without longwinded explanation.

The idea that YOU tell a BIZ what to do when they're running full out is more rude, unless there were some level of incompetence there, bad service [sent you a mangled part and wouldn't refund, for example...], etc.

And if the OP is so butt-hurt about a common turn of phrase he's really gonna be butthurt when he waits in line at the DMV, the Safeway clerk doesn't say thank-you.

Man, get a life.

It's not the "not interested" part that upset him but the second reply he got... The part where he treats him like an idiot...

mrvash
10-14-2012, 6:08 PM
It's not the "not interested" part that upset him but the second reply he got... The part where he treats him like an idiot...

To me, it's both replies to the OP's e-mail, please allow me to express my translation of Joel's e-mail replies:

"Thanks, but we are not interested. Kindly, Joel" - To me, it sounds like they have the tools, hardware, manpower and time to get the request done, but are not just willing to do it for the customer, out of interest. Which I understand, personally, I would have left it at that and took my money elsewhere.

Now the second reply, well, most of you already know how the majority of the people that responded in this thread feels about that.

pieeater
10-14-2012, 6:17 PM
first response sounded clear to me :shrug:

Me too, what was so difficult to understand?

Webologist
10-14-2012, 6:29 PM
It's always interesting how so many people will claim to boycott a company based on something so trivial.

Because a lack of respect for customers, or potential customers is a sign of a garbage company that I for one would have no part of supporting. They can keep their smug attitude.

Striker
10-14-2012, 6:33 PM
And this is why you clearly don't run a business. You have no concept of what customer service entails, or what is appropriate for posting on a public forum.

-Mb

No, you contributed to the fiasco that's going on here as well. You run a business yet you didn't understand "Thanks, we are not interested". Somehow that just doesn't equate to me. That's clearly the no that you were looking for; actually, no thank you. And it's really not rude at all. Just "No" would have been a lot less polite.

Truthfully, his second email was out of line, but so was yours. You pushed the point. It's not hard to understand his original email and you could have just moved on and looked to another company. Instead, you decided to push it and when he pushed back rather sarcastically, you got mad and started this thread.

Sure, it's bad form to react sarcastically to a potential customer, but you could have let it go as well and you were unwilling to do so.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-14-2012, 7:45 PM
As has been pointed out repeatedly on here, the response didn't fit any of the questions. I am not going to repeat it all again. But feel free to look at the responses from people who also didn't think it was the right response. And what does this thread have to do with somebody making inappropriate comments, or not understanding why the responses were out of line?

-Mb

calishine
10-14-2012, 8:34 PM
I wish this thread would end.

OP,

I get it, you feel wronged by Noveske. I'm not here to judge you or them. I would however, say its time for you bury the hatchet and move-on. Again, I'm sure you're a nice guy.

If not this sort of stuff will eat at you. I heard a saying once from a crime victim on TV "You can get bitter, or you can get better." Get better :)

IVC
10-14-2012, 10:24 PM
There was an excellent book awhile back, Fire Your Customers which clearly showed that 10-15% of most biz' customer base are a net loss and COST money, and it would be best not to have them - even despite some revenue, and/or despite the fired customer badmouthing you.

True, but there is the right way to do it and there is the wrong way to do it. Burning bridges is not a winning strategy regardless of cause.

gesundheit
10-14-2012, 11:36 PM
Guys I think we have discussed this thread to its logical conclusion. If I have time this week, I will try to get ahold of John and let him know of this incident. Let's all move on to another topic.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-15-2012, 7:14 AM
Guys I think we have discussed this thread to its logical conclusion. If I have time this week, I will try to get ahold of John and let him know of this incident. Let's all move on to another topic.

At this point I tend to agree. I forwarded the emails to Pac Nor's customer service department. I figure I am going to leave it at that. I will call them later today to find out about getting a blank barrel cut to the contour I need for putting in an AR.

-Mb

HK Dave
10-15-2012, 7:29 AM
Hmm at first I thought maybe the OP was being a little too sensitive... but after giving it some thought, I feel Noveske's response was rude and condescending.

Only high and mighty folks that think they are above others would view a customers request and respond with "not interested".

People with any semblance of grace or humility would respond with, "Our apologies, we don't build barrels in that way and don't plan to."

Noveske's response reminded me of Mark Larue. Then again, I suppose being able to sell everything you make at higher prices than the rest of the competition does make you feel high and mighty.

CHS
10-15-2012, 7:43 AM
At this point I tend to agree. I forwarded the emails to Pac Nor's customer service department. I figure I am going to leave it at that. I will call them later today to find out about getting a blank barrel cut to the contour I need for putting in an AR.

I still don't get what it is you think you're going to do with this barrel blank.

If you can't do something as basic as turn a blank to the AR profile/diameter you need, how are you going to thread the breech end for the barrel extension, drill the gas port, and chamber it?

pietropau9
10-15-2012, 7:44 AM
I say call and report to a supervisor and forward them the message directly...

Then shop else where that's not cool at all... I'd raise hell

I agree. You have money. They need money. There is no place for a jack *** like this to be rude to a potential customer. Break out your testicals and go in for another bite. I can have my daughter show you how if you need help. She is a tiger on the phone.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-15-2012, 8:51 AM
I still don't get what it is you think you're going to do with this barrel blank.

If you can't do something as basic as turn a blank to the AR profile/diameter you need, how are you going to thread the breech end for the barrel extension, drill the gas port, and chamber it?

I am not going to do it. I am a monkey. It says that clearly in my user name. I am collecting the parts I need to take it to a gunsmith. But it is easier for me to either have the parts, or know where to get the parts ahead of time, so that when I take the whole project in, I don't waste the gunsmith's time. There is no point in having somebody who is a trained professional, who I am paying by the hour for his skills, wasting his time playing phone tag trying to track down the things I can just as easily find myself ahead of time. Most of the parts I am going to need can be had from Midway or Brownells. With an AR, the majority of them are standardized. I can order a barrel extension or gas block. Even a monkey can manage that.

-Mb

SamsDX
10-15-2012, 10:18 AM
The expression "not interested in..." really is a *polite* way of saying "No we won't do this."

I suppose it's just a matter of semantics and context, but getting the response that OP did turns the typical customer/seller interaction on its face, and that perhaps is the reason why it seems a little off. "We're not interested" is ordinarily something said in response to an offer made, e.g., had OP said, "I would like this barrel made, and I'm willing to pay $X for it. I'm looking around and comparing different vendors - can you do it?" as in an RFP then saying "Sorry, we're not interested in this project" would be appropriate and expected.

OP's was simply making a customer service inquiry. Perhaps it was an invitation for Noveske to make an offer, but it was not OP making the offer as in the previous example. A simple "Sorry, we would be unable to help you with this" would have been much more polite, and is the expected response, as others have posted.


People with any semblance of grace or humility would respond with, "Our apologies, we don't build barrels in that way and don't plan to."


I couldn't agree more. If I dealt with my clients in the way Noveske did, I wouldn't have very many at all. I understand the idea that not all customers are always right, and there's a select percentage that ends up costing money. I'm not beyond "firing" clients (and I have in the past) but there are much more tactful ways to do so than to say I'm not interested. Where pricing is somewhat flexible, as is the case in a line of business such a mine, I can increase it to a point where the additional effort would be justified, and if that's higher than what the potential customer is willing to pay, well, then that's the way it is.

JDPhx501
10-15-2012, 10:54 AM
I get what the OP is trying to say; it all stems from Joel's a poor word choice.


"Thanks not interested" is the reply you give to someone when they try to sell you stuff, not when you're asking to buy. The reply is ambiguous at best.


"No." or "We can't do that." would be better responses.


OP asked for something; he didn't offer anything. The response he was given makes no sense.

This.

Reply was pompous and dismissive. Who is this guy to state that the company is not interested? "Thank you again for your inquiry but we are unable to meet your request"

I got alot more courtesy when I requested an item in stock inquiry reply from Botach, and I know how you all love those guys for those CS.

a1c
10-15-2012, 11:05 AM
This is why you don't put back office/shop people in client-facing roles unless they've been correctly trained.

762.DEFENSE
10-15-2012, 11:12 AM
Take your money elsewhere. I had a similar issue with another company-and spend my money elsewhere.

Vote with your dollar.

socal147
10-15-2012, 11:14 AM
I dont think this thread should end until Noveske comes on here and explains their actions. It should be real easy to do.

IVC
10-15-2012, 11:24 AM
I dont think this thread should end until Noveske comes on here and explains their actions. It should be real easy to do.

Easy - yes. Convenient - no.

skisly
10-15-2012, 11:45 AM
Waste of time - yes.

It's the kindest thing I can type.

calishine
10-15-2012, 12:07 PM
Waste of time - yes.

It's the kindest thing I can type.

This thread has become a waste of time.

Please everyone, let it end.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-15-2012, 12:11 PM
I dont think this thread should end until Noveske comes on here and explains their actions. It should be real easy to do.

As amusing as that thought is, I don't think it is going to happen. They have little to gain by going on to every forum that has a negative post about something they did and getting into shouting matches over who said what to whom. My complaint was with one tech who had poor customer service skills. As annoyed as I was, is that worth them having a higher-up coming on here and doing a mea culpa? No. Even with my copies of their emails, how can they judge my complaint as valid versus all the other complaints that are out there by people who are one taco short of a combo plate? Should they spend time chasing down everybody who says something bad about them? Not really. They have a business to run.

I dealt with the problem two ways. First, by taking my dollars elsewhere. If they aren't interested in me, I am sure not going to be interested in them. Second, by forwarding the emails to Pac Nor's customer service department. They are more likely to get the information to the correct people at Noveske than me anyway. That is more than enough for me. Other than that I got to come on here and vent. And get some feedback from people outside of the event that could tell me if they found it to be rude as well. More than half of the people posting saw it the same way I did. A bunch of people didn't. Either way, I am done and have moved on. I will track down the parts I need elsewhere. If Pac Nor can't make what I need, ER Shaw can. Barrel blanks aren't that hard to come by.

-Mb

Rorge Retson
10-15-2012, 2:00 PM
This thread has become a waste of time. Please everyone, let it end.

I wish this thread would end.

Hey guys - there is this thing called "Unsubscribe"....you should check it out sometime. ;) I did - I left the thread for a couple of days and came back today just to visit.

IMO, the people who don't understand what is wrong with Noveske's response are the same people who would behave the same way in similar circumstances.

Those very same people cannot see the problem because they're "not interested" in seeing the problem, just like Noveske's tech was "not interested" in serving the OP.

You can't solve the problem (an inability to see things from another's perspective) with the problem (a brain that can't see things from another's perspective).

projectalpha
10-15-2012, 3:46 PM
OP should top off this thread w/ a poll.

gesundheit
10-15-2012, 4:13 PM
FYI Noveske is looking into this. Please don't write them off just yet.

sunborder
10-15-2012, 5:56 PM
couldn't read the plain English text saying that they're not interested.

I think what a lot of folks here (and the tech who made the silly comment as well) are failing to understand is the part about the email being bounced around before it came back to the customer. It is obvious that they weren't interested in making the barrel. What is NOT obvious is whether the tech (Joel) was intending to reply to the customer, or intending to reply internally to someone else at the company.

A BASIC skill when using email is to make sure that if you are responding as part of a long email chain, that you make sure your intended audience knows that you are speaking to them. Joel failed to do this, and used a turn of phrase that can easily be mistaken for snark (because it frequently IS used as snark). The second email kind of confirms the overall tone and attitude of the tech in question.

Conclusion: Don't let this guy near customers directly. His "positive customer communication skills" are at best poor, and, at worst, nonexistent.

scobun
10-15-2012, 6:17 PM
I am not going to do it. I am a monkey. It says that clearly in my user name. I am collecting the parts I need to take it to a gunsmith. But it is easier for me to either have the parts, or know where to get the parts ahead of time, so that when I take the whole project in, I don't waste the gunsmith's time. There is no point in having somebody who is a trained professional, who I am paying by the hour for his skills, wasting his time playing phone tag trying to track down the things I can just as easily find myself ahead of time. Most of the parts I am going to need can be had from Midway or Brownells. With an AR, the majority of them are standardized. I can order a barrel extension or gas block. Even a monkey can manage that.

-Mb

A gunsmith won't be able to do anything with a barrel blank. This is a barrel blank:

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/primary/241/241545.jpg

There is still a crap ton of very complicated machining to do to turn it into a barrel. You need a machinist shop to do that work. You need an AR barrel which is a very different thing than a barrel blank.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-15-2012, 7:17 PM
A gunsmith won't be able to do anything with a barrel blank. This is a barrel blank:

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/primary/241/241545.jpg

There is still a crap ton of very complicated machining to do to turn it into a barrel. You need a machinist shop to do that work. You need an AR barrel which is a very different thing than a barrel blank.

Ummm... That is what a qualified gunsmith does. I am not talking about a gun plumber who just assembles ARs. Not that I have anything against them. I am talking about somebody who can turn barrels and do custom work. Believe it or not, they still exist. I have done this several times before, albeit with other rifles than the AR.

-Mb

CHS
10-15-2012, 7:24 PM
There is still a crap ton of very complicated machining to do to turn it into a barrel. You need a machinist shop to do that work. You need an AR barrel which is a very different thing than a barrel blank.

No, he needs a barrel blank. That's exactly what he asked for.

For some reason, he thought he could find a partway finished AR barrel. Those don't exist.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-15-2012, 7:45 PM
No, he needs a barrel blank. That's exactly what he asked for.

For some reason, he thought he could find a partway finished AR barrel. Those don't exist.

Man, you just can't drop it, can you? :rolleyes: Ok, what would you call a barrel that is cut to an AR contour before you add the barrel extension and drill it for the gas port?

And what exactly are these, if not AR barrel blanks?

http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/ar_barrels.pdf
http://www.shilen.com/ar15Barrels.html
http://www.hartbarrels.com/ar-15.php

Hmmm... They look like AR barrel blanks to me. I could be wrong though. I mean, who has ever heard of any of those guys before?

smittty
10-15-2012, 8:13 PM
I agree that the first and second response are lacking. I would have stopped after reading the first reply but I wasn't there so I didn't feel the pinch sort of speak.

Gun companies and gun parts retailers are busy and we just need to choose those that appreciate our business.

I've given up on several companies after recent transactions and I don't care to feel the pressure to buy something. After all, I buy guns and gun related stuff because I want to, but I definitely don't NEED to. I have my few reliable guns and all the rest are toys.

I won't support companies that don't respect their customers. It's that simple.

xibunkrlilkidsx
10-15-2012, 8:13 PM
I dont think the First responce was clear at all. Who Is ever not intrested in selling something ? That is not how you answer a customers email. You tell anything but that you are not intrested in doing buisness with them.
OP I would have had the same reaction as you
F Novseke take all your buisness elswhere from now on

Ive contacted numerous companies about making me a custom laptop case and they all turned me down, but i still bought misc items from them. Simply because there isn't money to be made in just one of something. And they told me that flat out, but I didn't complain about it to the world,i agree that his 2nd email was a bit snarcky though. The company i work for turns down work everyday because we are simply to busy to get what they want in the time frame they want; I would rather be upfront about it than have a customer mad that we didn't get the job done when they wanted. It's sucks to do but it happens.

His 1st email was pretty blatant. "We are not interested". long way of saying... No.

scobun
10-15-2012, 8:30 PM
Man, you just can't drop it, can you? :rolleyes: Ok, what would you call a barrel that is cut to an AR contour before you add the barrel extension and drill it for the gas port?

And what exactly are these, if not AR barrel blanks?

http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/ar_barrels.pdf
http://www.shilen.com/ar15Barrels.html
http://www.hartbarrels.com/ar-15.php

Hmmm... They look like AR barrel blanks to me. I could be wrong though. I mean, who has ever heard of any of those guys before?

Those are all AR barrels. Very different than a barrel blank.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-15-2012, 9:30 PM
Those are all AR barrels. Very different than a barrel blank.

Pre-Threaded Blanks
These pre-threaded AR-15 blanks take the convenience of our contoured blank one step further by pre-cutting the thread shank area in a CNC lathe. While the barrel is in the lathe a barrel extension is screwed on by hand to verify final fit and left married to that individual barrel. (Barrel extension pin not included)


Hmmm... No, they seem to think that they are called blanks too. Of course it is only Shilen. It's not like they have been making barrels since 1955 or anything. Oh, wait... Now will the two of you knock off this nonsense? I gave you three different links to industry leaders who call them AR barrel blanks. You can call them whatever you want, or tell the world that I have no idea what I am talking about. But it seems like the people who actually make them call them the same thing I do.

-Mb

NSR500
10-15-2012, 10:08 PM
The pity party still going on? :nopity:

kotton
10-15-2012, 10:20 PM
as is the whining about whining

calishine
10-15-2012, 10:55 PM
As is the :beatdeadhorse5: on both sides of the argument.

Rorge Retson
10-15-2012, 11:09 PM
as is the whining about whining

And the whining about whining about whining. :sleeping:

Dhena81
10-15-2012, 11:10 PM
I enjoy my CHF and SS Noveske barrrrells

gun toting monkeyboy
10-16-2012, 6:34 AM
And the whining about whining about whining. :sleeping:

Seriously. It is getting to the point where this is just getting redundant. :(

smittty
10-16-2012, 8:11 AM
Ive contacted numerous companies about making me a custom laptop case and they all turned me down, but i still bought misc items from them. Simply because there isn't money to be made in just one of something. And they told me that flat out, but I didn't complain about it to the world,i agree that his 2nd email was a bit snarcky though. The company i work for turns down work everyday because we are simply to busy to get what they want in the time frame they want; I would rather be upfront about it than have a customer mad that we didn't get the job done when they wanted. It's sucks to do but it happens.

His 1st email was pretty blatant. "We are not interested". long way of saying... No.

I agree. I just think it wouldn't have taken any more energy to reply in a more friendly manner and in doing so they'd have kept a customer. Something like "thank you for your inquiry, unfortunately we are not equipped to make sucha part blaa blaa blaa....., best regards, joe blow".

The gun business is good right now but things change. Keeping customers is a lot easier than finding new ones. All you guys who are *****ing about this topic should make note of that.

HonkingAntelope
10-16-2012, 10:23 AM
I do not find the response "we're not interested in...." to be at all offensive, rude of intention or even abruptly dismissive.

The expression "not interested in..." really is a *polite* way of saying "No we won't do this."

We have someone here asking for a weird-*** caliber that requires special custom non-high-volume work. The net cost of doing this is a loss - likely a one-off, and incurs opportunity costs to an already-busy shop. He probably assumed overall sanity and figured the OP was smart enough to understand this.

Maybe it's just because English is my second language, but even the original response practically radiates condescension (I'm not even mentioning the followup reply). The feeling may well have been justified, but a simple reply saying "Sorry, but we can't help you with that" would've been a far more polite and appropriate response than what the OP got.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-18-2012, 7:12 AM
I heard back from Pac Nor. They were incredibly polite over the phone, and said they do indeed make barrel blanks cut to AR 15 dimensions in any caliber I want. No gas port or barrel extensions, which is what I was expecting. But they were more than happy to work with me.

-Mb

IVC
10-18-2012, 10:19 AM
I heard back from Pac Nor. They were incredibly polite over the phone, and said they do indeed make barrel blanks cut to AR 15 dimensions in any caliber I want. No gas port or barrel extensions, which is what I was expecting. But they were more than happy to work with me.

-Mb

Not interested :)

gun toting monkeyboy
10-18-2012, 10:31 AM
Not interested :)

:p See, that is the appropriate use of that phrase. ;)

cwin
10-18-2012, 12:21 PM
I think his first response was pretty clear but that does not excuse the way he responded to you the second time. Sorry you didn't have a good experience communicating with them. When I call Noveske, I usually talk to Joel and have had only positive experiences.

kotton
10-18-2012, 6:36 PM
For some reason, he thought he could find a partway finished AR barrel. Those don't exist.

I heard back from Pac Nor. They were incredibly polite over the phone, and said they do indeed make barrel blanks cut to AR 15 dimensions in any caliber I want. -Mb

i loled

russ69
10-18-2012, 6:53 PM
I heard back from Pac Nor. They were incredibly polite over the phone, and said they do indeed make barrel blanks cut to AR 15 dimensions in any caliber I want.

Did you specify .35 cal?

mroels
10-18-2012, 7:16 PM
This is why you don't put back office/shop people in client-facing roles unless they've been correctly trained.

Wrong. I keep reading the excuse that this guys is a tech. Who cares? If I send a customer to my accounting dept. regarding a problem, I don't expect them to be CS savvy but I do expect them to convey that the customer matters. If I send a customer to our IT dept to speak to a cyber geeky tech with limited social skills, I'd still expect them to treat the customer well. If they don't there will be an issue.

I personally don't find the response rude, I would not have been offended, but I would no longer be a customer. It is the "not interested" part that bothers me. To me it means they don't want to do it. And there is no reason not to want to do something for a customer. If its not profitable, then response should be we can't do it. If not set up for it, response we can't do it. Illegal to do, response we can't do it. Too busy with other venture, response we can't do it.

To use an earlier example about ordering a burger from McDonalds with 8 patties. Go try it. See what the response is. It might be "sorry we can't do that", but I garauntee it won't be "we're not interested in doing that".
What this response read like to me is "no problem but we don't want to" or "that's such a dumb idea for a barrel I above it and don't want to do it" or "not nearly challenging enough for me, not interested"

gun toting monkeyboy
10-18-2012, 8:51 PM
Did you specify .35 cal?

They had no problem with .35 caliber. I got the impression that any caliber they make would have been possible.

peter95
10-18-2012, 11:33 PM
Wow, Noveske actually has that kind of customer service?

His first response was not professional at all. A company such as Noveske should have better workers than that.

My view on Noveske's reputation just dropped by more than half.

You should like this thread to one of Noveske's higher ups.

russ69
10-18-2012, 11:45 PM
They had no problem with .35 caliber. I got the impression that any caliber they make would have been possible.

How much and what's the wait time?

gun toting monkeyboy
10-19-2012, 7:46 AM
How much and what's the wait time?

It looks like just under $300, but I will have to see. It may be a bit cheaper. At this point I am not worrying about the time. I am still working on the reamer. Once that is done, it will be time to order the barrel.

-Mb

AleksandreCz
10-19-2012, 10:08 AM
I heard back from Pac Nor. They were incredibly polite over the phone, and said they do indeed make barrel blanks cut to AR 15 dimensions in any caliber I want. No gas port or barrel extensions, which is what I was expecting. But they were more than happy to work with me.

-Mb

Now You can Email Joel at Noveske and tell him

F... You Joel I am not Interested in you BAAAArrreeelll

gun toting monkeyboy
10-19-2012, 10:24 AM
Now You can Email Joel at Noveske and tell him

F... You Joel I am not Interested in you BAAAArrreeelll

Nah. I am not going to sink to his level. I blocked his email address and moved on.

-Mb

kotton
10-19-2012, 11:59 AM
It looks like just under $300, but I will have to see. It may be a bit cheaper. At this point I am not worrying about the time. I am still working on the reamer. Once that is done, it will be time to order the barrel.

-Mb

Thats pretty cheap considering its a magical unicorn barrel that doesnt exist ;)

gun toting monkeyboy
10-19-2012, 4:18 PM
Thats pretty cheap considering its a magical unicorn barrel that doesnt exist ;)

It is probably because I am too stupid to understand that such things can't possibly exist, so they took pity on me. :rolleyes:

CHS
10-19-2012, 4:50 PM
It is probably because I am too stupid to understand that such things can't possibly exist, so they took pity on me. :rolleyes:

It's still not an "AR barrel blank". It's just a barrel blank. Nothing special about it at all. Have fun with it.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-19-2012, 9:02 PM
It's still not an "AR barrel blank". It's just a barrel blank. Nothing special about it at all. Have fun with it.

lol. Wow. Just wow. I provide documentation, links, first hand conversations from the barrel manufacturers themselves, and he still can't admit that they are AR barrel blanks. Dude, at this point you can call them turnips. It doesn't matter. The rest of the world calls them AR barrel blanks. ;)

-Mb

tuna quesadilla
10-19-2012, 9:05 PM
Holy crap gun toting monkeyboy, overreact much? :rofl2:

john noveske
10-24-2012, 3:23 PM
I am very sorry for the comments made by Joel. I would have posted sooner, but I have been out of town without an internet connection. Joel and I have discussed this situation. I am sorry to all who have had a negative experience with Joel or anyone at our company. I take the responsibility.

a1c
10-24-2012, 3:44 PM
Well I think this thread can be locked now...

:popcorn:

JDW67
10-24-2012, 3:48 PM
Holy crap, this thread is still going...

RaiderNation
10-24-2012, 3:48 PM
I am very sorry for the comments made by Joel. I would have posted sooner, but I have been out of town without an internet connection. Joel and I have discussed this situation. I am sorry to all who have had a negative experience with Joel or anyone at our company. I take the responsibility.

Wow it's nice to see an apology from Noveske. I may end up taking a drink of the Noveske Kool-aid after all.