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View Full Version : Slidefire spotted at local gun shop....


Arisaka
10-11-2012, 12:46 PM
So, not trying to stir up a hornet's nest here. I know that the consensus here is to turn around and run when confronted with a Slidefire stock. But, I just thought I'd let everyone know that Olde West Gun and Loan in Redding is selling them. If caught with one, could that help your defense (significantly)? Rather than ordering something bad from the internet and bringing it to California, what if it is purchased down the street at a legit gun store?

TheExiled
10-11-2012, 12:48 PM
Eep.. probably wont end well for the shop if they actually sell them

Arisaka
10-11-2012, 12:52 PM
I guess we will see... I'll keep my eye on the local paper:thumbsup: But if I start seeing them at the range, I'll consider grabbing one:30:

S470FM
10-11-2012, 12:53 PM
wrong is still wrong. it'd be like assembling a FA rifle just because FA parts come with a kit--no is no.

chillincody
10-11-2012, 1:02 PM
A slidefire stock on a semi auto is still a semi auto but I dont want to be the test case so until we have written proof Im good on buying one

CK_32
10-11-2012, 1:23 PM
Buy it before the ATF sees :43:


But really I'd call the shop and notify them to possibly save their business from being shut down.. Also before some unknowing guy thinks its awesome and gets them selves into manor trouble and a unwanted head ache...

Call them now!

EL_NinO619
10-11-2012, 1:30 PM
I called and just gave them a heads up, they have no clue why, but I told them to research it and decide.

strongpoint
10-11-2012, 1:36 PM
Olde West Gun and Loan in Redding is selling them. If caught with one, could that help your defense (significantly)? Rather than ordering something bad from the internet and bringing it to California, what if it is purchased down the street at a legit gun store?

if you got caught with a large quantity of, say, cocaine (let's assume felony weight), would it matter whether you got it from the dealer on the corner or mail-ordered it direct from bogota? without addressing the question of the slidefire stock's status, illegal is illegal.

starsnuffer
10-11-2012, 1:39 PM
Is simply owning the stock considered a problem, or must it be attached to a rifle?

What if it was attached to a bolt action rifle?

-W

lawaia
10-11-2012, 1:40 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=527201

Jeepers
10-11-2012, 1:40 PM
wrong is still wrong. it'd be like assembling a FA rifle just because FA parts come with a kit--no is no.

so far all i have seen say its wrong is CalGuns , anyone have a case # for anyone prosecuted ?

seeing that Slidefire did submit a sample long ago to CADOJ and i haven't heard of one DA prosecuting ,what is "wrong" besides the lawyers here saying they wont defend a slidefire case ?

i can remember many years ago being slammed by everyone about how illegal AOW's where when i found a old rancher with a legal h&r handy gun :rolleyes:

so until case law shows its illegal its just a opinion correct ?

saki302
10-11-2012, 1:49 PM
If a cop who works at the DOJ sold you a full auto MP5, is it legal? HELL NO!

Just because a shop sells something doesn't make it kosher. Stay away.


For argument's sake, let's say it's legal, but gray. Is it worth the court fees and headache (potential) for you to own it? That's up to you to decide.


-Dave

MrPlink
10-11-2012, 1:50 PM
Read the law, it doesn't take a lawyer to see how the slidefire or similar devices dimensionally fit the description of and illegal multi burst trigger device.

luchador768
10-11-2012, 1:55 PM
Do they ship to SoCal?

Jeepers
10-11-2012, 1:59 PM
this is all academic to me as i dont want one as i think its a waste of ammo , but back when i was a kid i would have been all over them ...lol

besides if i want to shoot fast in Redding i will just head over to the range and rent a real F/A weapon....lol

PacificOutfitters.com - SlideFire Solutions, Legal in California w/ John Corbett
gX_X3joSD1Q

Librarian
10-11-2012, 2:00 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=527201

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Slide_Fire_or_Bumpfire_stocks

The device itself has a list price of about $370.

Let's suppose one is arrested for having it - what are the costs of defending that $370 purchase?

Just a random CA lawyer's page - http://thebeachlaw.com/?page_id=29 - the first I found that was clear about it.

$300/hour.

$1300 for a limited scope court appearance.

And he doesn't do criminal law.

Harrison_Bergeron
10-11-2012, 2:01 PM
if you got caught with a large quantity of, say, cocaine (let's assume felony weight), would it matter whether you got it from the dealer on the corner or mail-ordered it direct from bogota? without addressing the question of the slidefire stock's status, illegal is illegal.

That is misrepresenting his argument, a more accurate analogy would be if you went down to your local fully licensed pharmacy and bought an over the counter bottle of coke with all the necessary labeling of an OTC drug. Similar to bath salts and all the new drugs people are thinking up faster than they are outlawed.

FeuerFrei
10-11-2012, 2:03 PM
I'd like to see a statement by a county DA that says they will charge anyone in posession of a Slidefire stock.
If this thing is so flagrently illegal then why in the name of Zeus's balls haven't our benevolent government betters arrested/charged all those concered? Including the importers (manufacturers) that are shipping them into the state. I'll bet there are more than one of these bad boys in Cali.
The charge and conviction rate on this should be a slam dunk. Nothing yet?

L4D
10-11-2012, 2:06 PM
Wasn't there a thread about the Olde West gun shop not being friendly to black rifles? And now they sell the Slidefire stock? That's rich.

barbasol
10-11-2012, 2:13 PM
Let them be the test case. Good for all of us to get a definitive answer

Arisaka
10-11-2012, 2:16 PM
You know, I honestly think that an old Ithaca 37 which is capable of slamfiring fits the bill of "multi burst trigger activator) better than the Slidefire. Think about it: The Ithaca 37 can literally fire multiple shots with a single pull of the trigger. You just rack the forearm every time you want it to fire and leave the trigger held down. That is a similar action to the Slidefire, only it is actually much more illegal sounding if you read the letter of the law. I can blow through 5 shots on one of those shotguns with a single trigger pull. Think about it..... ;)

johnnydizzy
10-11-2012, 2:16 PM
rubber band is MUCH cheaper... :D:D:D:D:D

EL_NinO619
10-11-2012, 2:37 PM
Wikipedia as a reference, can't anyone write on that site? I say your not playing with fire, with that stock your playing in fire, you probably will get burned, legally or financially. Just to waste ammo....

Arisaka
10-11-2012, 2:40 PM
rubber band is MUCH cheaper... :D:D:D:D:D

Plus you get free meals in a Federal "pound me in the ***" prison!:chris:

5thgen4runner
10-11-2012, 2:51 PM
If I had money...

Curley Red
10-11-2012, 3:43 PM
I guess we will see... I'll keep my eye on the local paper:thumbsup: But if I start seeing them at the range, I'll consider grabbing one:30:

Why not just get one now and be the guinea pig for everyone. You seem to think they are legal to buy, so get one.

Arisaka
10-11-2012, 3:52 PM
Why not just crap all over my thread?

CSACANNONEER
10-11-2012, 3:58 PM
I can go to china town in any major metropolitain area in CA and find metal knuckles, fireworks, etc. for sale in Ca businesses. That doesn't mean they are legal or that it'll help your legal defence in any way if you buy them and get caught.

Buy it before the ATF sees :43:


WTF? ATF has opined that slidefire stocks are legal on a federal level. ATF doesn't enforce CA laws. So why would they give a duck?

CK_32
10-11-2012, 4:14 PM
WTF? ATF has opined that slidefire stocks are legal on a federal level. ATF doesn't enforce CA laws. So why would they give a duck?

I think you missed my sarcasm entirely lol

That's the whole joke.. :(

guess my stand up days won't be in my near future.

CSACANNONEER
10-11-2012, 4:18 PM
I think you missed my sarcasm entirely lol

That's the whole joke.. :(

guess my stand up days won't be in my near future.

Yea, I didn't see the :rolleyes: smiley. Of course, if CA DOJ happens to visit for an audit or if the local DA just wanders in to shop and decides to press the matter, the shop could be in for a world of hurt.

tacticalcity
10-11-2012, 4:20 PM
A slidefire stock on a semi auto is still a semi auto but I dont want to be the test case so until we have written proof Im good on buying one

That is not the issue. California has a law on the books that specifically covers devices like this stock. It is a subject that has been beaten to death.

tacticalcity
10-11-2012, 4:21 PM
Plus you get free meals in a Federal "pound me in the ***" prison!:chris:

Free sex too. LOL.

wash
10-11-2012, 4:22 PM
Well we are all missing the obvious thing:

If these stocks are California legal, as soon as people start buying them and doing mag dumps at the range, the antis are going to have another thing to rail against.

Waste of money, waste of ammo, there is no reason to poke that hornets nest.

CSACANNONEER
10-11-2012, 4:23 PM
Plus you get free meals in a Federal "pound me in the ***" prison!:chris:

State law = state beat the sheet out of me, break all my teeth out and pound me every which way state prison.

Arisaka
10-11-2012, 4:25 PM
State law = state beat the sheet out of me, break all my teeth out and pound me every which way state prison.

I was referencing the rubber band comment lol. That's a Federal beatdown:43:

tacticalcity
10-11-2012, 4:26 PM
Well we are all missing the obvious thing:

If these stocks are California legal, as soon as people start buying them and doing mag dumps at the range, the antis are going to have another thing to rail against.

Waste of money, waste of ammo, there is no reason to poke that hornets nest.

That is a defeatist, backwards way of thinking...and the reason we are in the trouble we are in now. You've surrended in your own mind before the argument even began with the left.

Don't get me wrong. These are clearly illegal. However, don't go around not doing things that are prefectly legal because you are worried about offending the sensabilities of the wackjobs on the left. That's a loosing mindset. Get your head right. You don't need to justify yourself to them. They need to justify themselves to you. The way you are phrasing it, it sounds like you think you're doing something wrong just because they say you are. Eff that!

CSACANNONEER
10-11-2012, 4:28 PM
I was referencing the rubber band comment lol. That's a Federal beatdown:43:

My bad. Yea, rubber bands, shoe strings and paper clips are all good for ten years each. Go figure?

myk
10-11-2012, 4:29 PM
Not worth the risk, or the cost. If someone wants an FA gun that badly just get out of this ridiculous state, something I'm considering myself...

NoHeavyHitter
10-11-2012, 4:51 PM
OK, I understand that CA has a law against “trigger activators” that simulate F/A fire. This stock appears to be a “bump-fire” device that costs a whole lot more than using a belt loop – so I’ll pass thank you. But can someone please post a link to the law against using your own finger to fire a rifle rapidly?

What sounds like is happening is that the people of CA have been relentlessly harassed for too long over owning rifles that have sinister appearances. Those people are now living in constant fear of arrest (for whatever reason the govt would cook up) so they decide not to own a product. It sounds to me like the anti’s have won since fear now makes it unnecessary for the legislature to pass more bans. The people are now voluntarily invoking the bans upon themselves!

wash
10-11-2012, 5:40 PM
That is a defeatist, backwards way of thinking...and the reason we are in the trouble we are in now. You've surrended in your own mind before the argument even began with the left.

Don't get me wrong. These are clearly illegal. However, don't go around not doing things that are prefectly legal because you are worried about offending the sensabilities of the wackjobs on the left. That's a loosing mindset. Get your head right. You don't need to justify yourself to them. They need to justify themselves to you. The way you are phrasing it, it sounds like you think you're doing something wrong just because they say you are. Eff that!
I disagree.

To be effective you need to know where to fight your battles.

Slidefire stocks are not a battle that is worth fighting yet because well if you can't figure that out, I've got some supreme court transcripts for you to read.

I'm all for pushing in areas where we won't get hurt. SSE, AR pistols, AK pistols, featureless ARs, 1919A4, home built 1911s, etc.

Slidefire is not a good fight for obvious reasons that I won't repeat here.

MrPlink
10-11-2012, 5:52 PM
There is a clearly misunderstanding of fed law vs state law here.

Mossy Man
10-11-2012, 6:01 PM
Other posters here are right.....

you gotta pick your battles.

Right now, the slidefire stock isn't worth our focus.

Freedomisntfree
10-11-2012, 6:03 PM
So it IS a trigger activator?

wash
10-11-2012, 7:21 PM
It could be argued that it is.

With our courts that means you would probably be convicted if you are charged with posession of a "multi-burst trigger activator" or whatever made-up name our state has given to devices that make bump fire easy.

SouthCoastTargets
10-11-2012, 10:11 PM
What sounds like is happening is that the people of CA have been relentlessly harassed for too long over owning rifles that have sinister appearances. Those people are now living in constant fear of arrest (for whatever reason the govt would cook up) so they decide not to own a product. It sounds to me like the anti’s have won since fear now makes it unnecessary for the legislature to pass more bans. The people are now voluntarily invoking the bans upon themselves!

truer words have never been spoken. people in this state are so afraid of their own ****ing shadow. grow a pair!!!!

TwinStick
10-11-2012, 10:19 PM
I would argue that it is a "trigger activator" since there's a plastic part of the Slidefire stock that book-ends the trigger guard to forcibly push your finger forward upon recoil. If the description of the device is argued in court by the prosecutor correctly, you're a felon. Totally not worth it IMHO.

strongpoint
10-11-2012, 10:27 PM
That is misrepresenting his argument, a more accurate analogy would be if you went down to your local fully licensed pharmacy and bought an over the counter bottle of coke with all the necessary labeling of an OTC drug. Similar to bath salts and all the new drugs people are thinking up faster than they are outlawed.

OP asked if it would help in a hypothetical defense if he had bought it from a retailer who was local, not necessarily one that was reputable. but whose analogy is more accurate is irrelevant; the original point stands -- if possession is illegal, then where you bought it isn't going to help your defense.


OK, I understand that CA has a law against “trigger activators” that simulate F/A fire. This stock appears to be a “bump-fire” device that costs a whole lot more than using a belt loop – so I’ll pass thank you. But can someone please post a link to the law against using your own finger to fire a rifle rapidly?

So it IS a trigger activator?

I would argue that it is a "trigger activator" since there's a plastic part of the Slidefire stock that book-ends the trigger guard to forcibly push your finger forward upon recoil.

:beatdeadhorse5:

this again. look, the way that laws like this one work is that they provide a definition:

(A) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm which allows the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst by activating the device.

(B) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it increases the rate of fire of that firearm.

if the device meets one of those definitions, it is illegal whether it actually touches the trigger or not. the state then labels it a "multi-burst trigger activator," but that name is not relevant to the definition. you might be able to argue that a slidefire stock doesn't meet one of those definitions, but arguing that it isn't illegal because it doesn't literally activate the trigger is useless.

Capybara
10-12-2012, 8:31 AM
Slidefire argument again? Jeez, it's like the Farmer's Almanac, when the seasons change, have a huge thread/argument about whether the Slidefire is legal in California. It exists in a definite legal gray area and some DA is going to make a test case, I would love if the test case is a Calgunner, then we will probably get to hear about this person's legal journey and can all make up or own minds on if we want to go there and follow that person.

FWIW, if I lived in a free state, I would own one in a heartbeat, I can't think of anything more fun that taking an anti or non shooter out to the range and having some fun with one. After shooting a few MGs in free states, I have talked myself out of ever owning one (I am too cheap and the value proposition for an MG is just not very appealing to me) when I move to a free state so a Slidefire would be a good, cheap substitute to occasionally blow through some cheap ammo.

myk
10-12-2012, 9:32 AM
If we were in a free state, wouldn't it be easier to own a genuine MG and just leave it on the semi auto setting?

Arisaka
10-12-2012, 10:13 AM
Genuine MGs are a little more expensive than a Slidefire stock...

Capybara
10-12-2012, 10:49 AM
Yes, if my Vector Uzi SA was in a free state and had the fun switch, it would have cost me $8,000.00 instead of $800.00, just not worth it to me.

myk
10-12-2012, 11:23 AM
Ah, I see. So...if I wanted to buy a fully capable version (burst, auto, whatever) of a Colt M4 or a similar 'AR it would cost about that much? I don't even know if those things are available to the civilian market so excuse my ignorance if I'm mistaken...

CSACANNONEER
10-12-2012, 11:28 AM
Ah, I see. So...if I wanted to buy a fully capable version (burst, auto, whatever) of a Colt M4 or a similar 'AR it would cost about that much? I don't even know if those things are available to the civilian market so excuse my ignorance if I'm mistaken...

A ballpark figure for a transferable M4 would be about $15000.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-12-2012, 11:31 AM
My bad. Yea, rubber bands, shoe strings and paper clips are all good for ten years each. Go figure?

No, the rubber bands were cleared by the ATF. They said that it was no different than having a stronger trigger return spring. The shoestring is still a no-no. And still probably the most effective.

-Mb

Jeepers
10-12-2012, 11:39 AM
i still dont see how "activating the device" can create "burst fire" , or change the cyclic rate ("rate or fire") , the device itself does nothing and does not interact with trigger , its all in the technique of use just like your belt loop

and ya a real MG's prices are extremely over inflated since 1986 a converted m16 is in the 15 grand range and up for the real deal

No, the rubber bands were cleared by the ATF. They said that it was no different than having a stronger trigger return spring. The shoestring is still a no-no. And still probably the most effective.

-Mbsource for this info ?

Librarian
10-12-2012, 11:50 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=527201

This FAQ just doesn't have a resolution.

Until a court case is brought and won or lost, the answer must remain speculative. It isn't even fun to speculate.