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View Full Version : Ar15 M193 or better all-around ammo?


frankm
10-10-2012, 10:41 AM
I want to use this ammo in regards to SHTF, zombies, commies, etc. I may want to possibly use this round for coyote hunting but it's not big on my list. First and foremost is defensive use. I want to run the same ammo for both a 16" 1-9 twist and a 20" 1-7 twist ARs. I was wondering if there is something else I should consider. I live in a suburban, hilly environment if that's consideration. Any opinions of a good all-around round?

FMJBT
10-10-2012, 10:51 AM
With a 16" 1:9, you're probably going to be limited to 69 grains or less. 62 grain M-855 would be a good pick for something affordable, available in large volume, and typically loaded for long term storage (sealant on case neck and primer pockets).

CK_32
10-10-2012, 10:56 AM
If your going to hint I'm. Big fan of one out one down... Don't be a cheap a** and make the animal suffer because you decided to blow $1500 on your gun and skimp an extra $5 at the animals expense for cheap ammo..

frankm
10-10-2012, 11:47 AM
If your going to hint I'm. Big fan of one out one down... Don't be a cheap a** and make the animal suffer because you decided to blow $1500 on your gun and skimp an extra $5 at the animals expense for cheap ammo..

wut?

frankm
10-10-2012, 11:48 AM
How's the M855? From what I gather, the M193 does better as a zombie round.

Lifeon2whls
10-10-2012, 11:55 AM
I have a 1:8 twist 5R barrel and the m193 works great. I can't use the M855 stuff because it has a steel core and ranges don't allow it here so I figure I want to be proficient with something I can shoot ALOT of. With regards to "zombies" either round will work if you can shoot them accurately. The M855 will have better penetration with objects because of the weight and steel core.

That said, for hunting (I think what CK was getting at) don't use FMJ rounds unless they are varmints. There are plenty of hollow tip rounds out there that are going to much more humane when trying to take down game with the .223 round.

a1c
10-10-2012, 11:58 AM
What's good enough for the military should be good enough for you.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-10-2012, 12:06 PM
The M193 is a great all-around round for your AR. It doesn't offer the same anti-armor capabilities as the M855, but it seems to have better terminal ballistics on non-armored critters/zombies/things-that-go-bump-in-the-night. Unless you feel the need to be able to penetrate Soviet body armor out to 300 yards, I would stick with the cheap, readily available 55 grain stuff.

-Mb

Munny$hot
10-10-2012, 12:39 PM
M193 & M855 will penetrate certain body armor. A lot of answers can be answered here: http://ammo.ar15.com/http://ammo.ar15.com/

CK_32
10-10-2012, 12:40 PM
wut?

I misread you wanted to use this for SHTF and everything else including big game hunting... Which I wasn't ok with but yote controls is a different storyzzz


But buy what ever your wallet and mind desires... 90% chance you won't ever use it for anything more than paper or dirt.

frankm
10-10-2012, 12:41 PM
OK, how about this, can you buy a round for SHTF and buy a comparable round for hunting so that the trajectory is essentially the same? Then I don't have to rezero if I go hunting.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-10-2012, 12:47 PM
OK, how about this, can you buy a round for SHTF and buy a comparable round for hunting so that the trajectory is essentially the same? Then I don't have to rezero if I go hunting.

You can try. The trick is getting a hunting round that has the same point of impact. It is a good idea, but it doesn't always work. ;)

-Mb

frankm
10-10-2012, 12:49 PM
You can try. The trick is getting a hunting round that has the same point of impact. It is a good idea, but it doesn't always work. ;)

-Mb

Yeah, I'm trying to see if it's possible to get one zero to do it all. Not having much luck. LOL.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-10-2012, 12:55 PM
Yeah, I'm trying to see if it's possible to get one zero to do it all. Not having much luck. LOL.

If you reload, you can try to tune in a hunting load that shoots the same in your particular rifle. Look at bullets that are close in weight, but they don't have to be identical. There are a lot of bullets that are in the 50, 53, and 55 grain range. Pick one that will take any game you are likely to run into, and try to dial in a load that shoots about the same in your rifle. If you are using a scoped rifle, consider keeping track of the zero for each round, and you can dial the scope back and forth between the two without much difficulty.

-Mb

elx144
10-10-2012, 1:11 PM
I zero'd my rifle using XM855 and M855 but two weeks ago I was shooting M193 and last week PMC .223 55g. This is with a 16" 1:7 twist barrel, iron sights, 100 yards and paper targets. Without too much effort I get all my shots within a 6" circle using what ever ammo I have. Past 100 yards I don't know what how far off I am. With the surplus 5.56 ammo available it shouldn't be hard to trial and error what works in your guns and at what distance. You might even be able to write down the adjustments you need to make for distance and bullet type. I'm planning to start shooting at 200 yards now that I have a .30-06, so I might have more input during the coming weeks.

Jpach
10-10-2012, 1:12 PM
Yeah, I'm trying to see if it's possible to get one zero to do it all. Not having much luck. LOL.

The solution is to find a good hunting round for yotes and shoot it enough in your AR so that you know it's trajectory within the ranges you will be hunting.

frankm
10-10-2012, 1:14 PM
The solution is to find a good hunting round for yotes and shoot it enough in your AR so that you know it's trajectory within the ranges you will be hunting.

That's true. Anyone know of a hunting round that is similar in trajectory to the M193 or M855?

jsipe007
10-10-2012, 1:40 PM
Go for some ballistic tip ; )

I have shot many types of ammo through my 1in 7 twist PSA 16in upper and I get pretty good groupings with m193 and m855. It is a commercially loaded round though, so the powder charge isn't terribly consistent. With it, I am still able to shoot sub 1.5 MOA at 100 yards and get pretty good groups at 200 and 300. Knock on wood, nut I've not had a FTF yet with brass case ammo and I've shot around 2500 rounds through my upper. IMO, both are great shtf rounds

Rorge Retson
10-10-2012, 1:47 PM
That's true. Anyone know of a hunting round that is similar in trajectory to the M193 or M855?

Pretty much all I buy is Federal Lake City XM183 or PMC XTAC XP193.

This makes it easy - they are comparable, and both go on sale often (like this sale right now (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/featured/pmc-x-tac-55gr.html)...)

SNCaliber
10-10-2012, 1:51 PM
my AR loves XM855, i keep it as a SHTF supply and use the non steel rounds for the range

roushstage2
10-10-2012, 1:57 PM
That's true. Anyone know of a hunting round that is similar in trajectory to the M193 or M855?

Play around with the Nikon Spot-On app. You can set everything up and pick different factory loads to compare. .223 and 5.56 are both on there ;)

ExtremeX
10-10-2012, 2:20 PM
I love M193 and M855 for factory ammo... most of what I buy is just that.

I generally use the M193 for plinking and fun

M855 I typically save it for use with my TA31F ACOG and defensive/SHFT use.

For target shooting / accuracy shooting I reload my own match ammo… 68gr and 77gr.

I don’t hunt, but I have a decent supply of reloads made with Hornady V-Max bullets…

You may want to look into some Hornady 55gr V-Max ammo for hunting, do a POI test for yourself. Depending on the distance you may be pleasantly surprised. I have a good deal of ammo that share the same/similar POI at 100 yards. It’s not until about 200-250+ yards I start to see bigger differences in POI and I shoot with a target scope so dialing in correction is only a few clicks away…

frankm
10-10-2012, 3:35 PM
Play around with the Nikon Spot-On app. You can set everything up and pick different factory loads to compare. .223 and 5.56 are both on there ;)

Awesomeness. Thanks! I'm getting close to M193 with Hornady VMAX, Nosler Ballistic Tip, Sierra Gameking.

ExtremeX
10-10-2012, 3:41 PM
If you have an iPhone buy Ballistics FTE… one of the best ballistic calculators ive used… takes the guess work out of it…

http://ballistic.zdziarski.com/

duggan
10-10-2012, 4:06 PM
FMJ's are a no no for big game hunting, not entirely sure about non game though.

353. Methods Authorized for Taking Big Game.
•(a) Except for the provisions of subsections 353(b) through (h), Title 14, CCR, big game (as defined by Section 350, Title 14, CCR) may only be taken by rifles using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles

tacticalcity
10-10-2012, 4:10 PM
Make sure your rifle(s) actually like running it as well. Guns can be picky. They don't always like the ammo they are supposed to like. Sometimes you get a batch, make, or even brand that your particular gun just acts up with. Jams, misfeeds, etc. that cannot be explained any other way than your gun just doesn't like it. You can also have ammo your guns(s) loves for years then suddenly something changes at the plant and your gun decides it hates it.

Collectors who collect and occassionally shoot never believe this. Guys who shoot for a living, have all experienced this first hand.

My point is, try it out for a bit before buying in bulk. Even then...keep your fingers crossed. and hope today is not the day your gun decides to be a picky eater.

sunborder
10-10-2012, 4:38 PM
One solution, as mentioned earlier, is to find either a practice load, or a hunting/SD load, and then handload the other variant to get the same point of impact. If your bullets have a similar BC (weight & shape), then their trajectory will be similar at most distances you would ever use the rifle for anything other than long-range target practice. For example, I have 50 rounds of V-Max (technically Z-max; stupid hornady advertising aside, they're the same bullet and cheaper) bullets I've handloaded in the last week. 10 rounds each at 5 different charge weights.

If I'm lucky, the Z-max will have an accuracy node where I can match to the POI with my M193 clone reloads. Zero to the best Z-max charge weight, and then I'll have to mix up a batch of the M193 clone ammo with different charge weights to see which one has the closest POI @ 100 yards. If the accuracy with that load is acceptable (don't see why it won't, since the starting loads I've been shooting have been under 1.5 moa), then I know the charge weights for my two recipes. If I'm unlucky, then the POI with best accuracy will be too different between the two bullets, and I'll have to experiment further.

Finding factory loads that shoot to the same POI with decent accuracy is going to be a crapshoot, and then you better hope you can buy in bulk from the same lots before the factory folks switch up their powder blend or adjust their tooling in any way.

Handloading (if you buy in bulk from the same lots of components) will let you iron out a lot of the accuracy issues between lots of ammunition.