PDA

View Full Version : 14.5" Melonited lightweight contour AR barrel


paintballdad
10-08-2012, 11:55 AM
I'm starting to pull together some parts for a lightweight AR upper build and trying to find a source for a 14.5" Melonited (nitrocarburized) lightweight contour barrel.
I had initially decided on a DD barrel but thought i'd try a Melonited barrel instead if anyone knows a source for one.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

deviljon
10-08-2012, 11:58 AM
Mid-length or carbine gas system? Tagged for interest.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-08-2012, 12:01 PM
gunbroker has some for sale. I was looking at one last night in the $99 range. Do a search on there.

-Mb

paintballdad
10-08-2012, 12:02 PM
Oops, missed that detail out. Looking for a carbine lenght gas system.

FeuerFrei
10-08-2012, 12:39 PM
Call Adams Arms. They list bbls from $199 - $300 depending on flavor. (Page 12 of catalog).

paintballdad
10-08-2012, 2:48 PM
^ Thanks for the heads up but it seems that they do not offer a 14.5" carbine lenght lightweight barrel.

IPSICK
10-08-2012, 3:13 PM
Maybe Loki Weapon Systems might have one. I'm considering them if I ever end up trying to build a lightweight upper.

eclectic
10-08-2012, 3:50 PM
What price point are you looking at?

paintballdad
10-08-2012, 4:33 PM
$240 max, the same price point as a Daniel Defense 14.5" lightweight barrel.

Speedpower
10-08-2012, 4:48 PM
^ Thanks for the heads up but it seems that they do not offer a 14.5" carbine lenght lightweight barrel.

Why do you want a 14.5 in barrel which you will end up having to pin a muzzle device to make it minimum 16 in to be legal in CA anyways?

Hoop
10-08-2012, 5:23 PM
16'' from ar15performance

paintballdad
10-08-2012, 6:52 PM
Why do you want a 14.5 in barrel which you will end up having to pin a muzzle device to make it minimum 16 in to be legal in CA anyways?

I'm fully aware of the need to pin a muzzle device on a 14.5" barrel. It's just my preference for this build since i already have a 16" midlenght rifle.

goodlookin1
10-08-2012, 8:28 PM
http://www.riflegear.com/p-1518-adams-arms-16-carbine-ultra-lite-barrel-625.aspx

But i'd recommend a middy 14.5" lightweight.....its what i did ad glad i did! But i wentwith DD.

http://www.riflegear.com/p-1605-adams-arms-145-midlength-ultra-lite-barrel-625.aspx

SDgarrick
10-08-2012, 8:31 PM
Why do you want a 14.5 in barrel which you will end up having to pin a muzzle device to make it minimum 16 in to be legal in CA anyways?

Because 14.5: w/ a muzzle device is 16.1" and 16" w/ a muzzle device is 17.5-18". I have a 16" bbl on a bushmaster upper and a factory pinned (:rolleyes:) ak74 style brake (break?). It's about 18" or so w/ the device. I want shorter for transportability and because in any situation besides the range, I would be deafened by my particular muzzle device. plus other reasons.

goodlookin1
10-08-2012, 8:35 PM
Why do you want a 14.5 in barrel which you will end up having to pin a muzzle device to make it minimum 16 in to be legal in CA anyways?

Shorter, less weight, and less muzzle end weight, which matters for better balance.

You obviously havent felt a lightweight 14.5"....;)

Not a knock at all, but if yo uget the opportunity, you be like wow.

pistolero805
10-08-2012, 8:45 PM
I believe spikes tactical makes something very similar.

deviljon
10-08-2012, 8:50 PM
I believe spikes tactical makes something very similar.

I know spikes makes a 14.5" lw middy stripped barrel but not sure if there's a carbine version.

The midlength is out of stock everywhere but would be cheapest from AIM Surplus @ $160 shipped.

MXRider
10-08-2012, 8:53 PM
Not sure who is offering that finish in that configuration, but you could try S&W for the barrel, then have it shortened and turned down by Adco to meet your needs.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Press Check
10-08-2012, 9:04 PM
What does a LW barrel weigh in comparasin to a standard barrel?

Speedpower
10-08-2012, 10:05 PM
Shorter, less weight, and less muzzle end weight, which matters for better balance.

You obviously havent felt a lightweight 14.5"....;)

Not a knock at all, but if yo uget the opportunity, you be like wow.

Yeah, sure! how much more heavier is an addt'l 1.5 inches :rolleyes:

starsnuffer
10-08-2012, 10:21 PM
Not sure who is offering that finish in that configuration, but you could try S&W for the barrel, then have it shortened and turned down by Adco to meet your needs.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

It would make a lot more sense for him to just get the barrel size/profile he wants and ship it off for meloniting. Machining a nitrided part is very tough on the tools.

-W

Hoop
10-08-2012, 10:24 PM
I've played with 16s and 14.5s and didn't notice a different between them handling wise. I think that kind of thing is all in the head of the user.

Still if you want a 14.5 I am almost positive that Riflegear has some melonited pencil barrel ones. Carbine gas will be hard though as nobody is doing that anymore or so it seems.

edit:

http://www.riflegear.com/p-1605-adams-arms-145-midlength-ultra-lite-barrel-625.aspx

Doubt you'll find a lighter melonited 14.5" drop in

IEShooter
10-08-2012, 10:56 PM
Anyone know of a source for a 14.5" CHF pencil barrel that is carbine length?

paintballdad
10-09-2012, 9:46 AM
Anyone know of a source for a 14.5" CHF pencil barrel that is carbine length?

This was the barrel I initially had planned on using.

https://www.primaryarms.com/Daniel_Defense_Lightweight_14_5_Inch_p/dd-9083.htm

I might end up using this one afterall.

jingerale
10-09-2012, 10:09 AM
I looked around a bit before going with the DD 14.5".

From my research, true pencil profile 14.5", it came down to either the BCM or the DD.

goodlookin1
10-09-2012, 11:25 AM
Yeah, sure! how much more heavier is an addt'l 1.5 inches :rolleyes:

Most 16" barrels are the M4gery type gov't profile. For people who want lightweight, many choose a pencil'd 14.5" just because it takes a few extra ounces off. Your right, not a huge deal. But it does play into length and balance: Typical 16" barrel turns into about 17.5-18.0", as opposed to 16.1". Other than the weight, the further out any weight gets from the center of balance, the slower the rotation speed will get. Basically, centripetal force comes into play: A 10" barrel will swing around faster than a 14", and a 14" will swing faster than an 18", and so on. Weight only compounds the problem.

Test it if you want: Sit in a chair that spins around....spin yourself as fast as you can with your legs tucked underneath the chair and take note of the rotation speed. Then untuck your legs and hold them straight out: You will spin much slower. Then tuck them underneath again and you will begin spinning faster again.

Anyway, all I can tell you is that I went from a 16" M4gery barrel with an Ares Armor Effin A comp (about 18" total) with an overall gun weight unloaded of about 9.5 lbs, to a 14.5" pencil barrel with a Spikes Dynacomp (16.2" total) and an unloaded weight of about 7.25 lbs (there were some other changes as well): There is a NIGHT AND DAY difference that is certainly not in my head. Others noted the significant difference as well. That 2.25 lbs weight savings feels like 5 lbs of weight savings because of the more even balance and less forward weight, and it does swing to the point of aim MUCH faster than the old setup. I will concede that the weight likely had much more to do with the faster POA changes than the 2" length, but the shorter barrel does still help.....even if only a little.

deviljon
10-09-2012, 11:50 AM
Anyway, all I can tell you is that I went from a 16" M4gery barrel with an Ares Armor Effin A comp (about 18" total) with an overall gun weight unloaded of about 9.5 lbs, to a 14.5" pencil barrel with a Spikes Dynacomp (16.2" total) and an unloaded weight of about 7.25 lbs (there were some other changes as well): There is a NIGHT AND DAY difference that is certainly not in my head. Others noted the significant difference as well. That 2.25 lbs weight savings feels like 5 lbs of weight savings because of the more even balance and less forward weight, and it does swing to the point of aim MUCH faster than the old setup. I will concede that the weight likely had much more to do with the faster POA changes than the 2" length, but the shorter barrel does still help.....even if only a little.

This info is actually very helpful, I'm building a rifle for the girlfriend and was looking at a Spikes 14.5" pencil barrel with Dynacomp extreme. Also wanted to use a Seekins Precision SAR rail so overall the front end should be VERY light.

Mind if I ask what other adjustments were made to reduce the weight of the rifle?

starsnuffer
10-09-2012, 1:55 PM
Keep in mind that reducing the weight, especially at the muzzle, will also increase the recoil. Figure out what your GF will be using it for before going too extreme. In my experience, the felt recoil of a 14.5" barrel vs an 18" barrel is about the same as the difference between true 5.56 and commercial .223. 16" is somewhere in between.

-W

Speedpower
10-09-2012, 2:16 PM
Most 16" barrels are the M4gery type gov't profile. For people who want lightweight, many choose a pencil'd 14.5" just because it takes a few extra ounces off. Your right, not a huge deal. But it does play into length and balance: Typical 16" barrel turns into about 17.5-18.0", as opposed to 16.1". Other than the weight, the further out any weight gets from the center of balance, the slower the rotation speed will get. Basically, centripetal force comes into play: A 10" barrel will swing around faster than a 14", and a 14" will swing faster than an 18", and so on. Weight only compounds the problem.

Test it if you want: Sit in a chair that spins around....spin yourself as fast as you can with your legs tucked underneath the chair and take note of the rotation speed. Then untuck your legs and hold them straight out: You will spin much slower. Then tuck them underneath again and you will begin spinning faster again.

Anyway, all I can tell you is that I went from a 16" M4gery barrel with an Ares Armor Effin A comp (about 18" total) with an overall gun weight unloaded of about 9.5 lbs, to a 14.5" pencil barrel with a Spikes Dynacomp (16.2" total) and an unloaded weight of about 7.25 lbs (there were some other changes as well): There is a NIGHT AND DAY difference that is certainly not in my head. Others noted the significant difference as well. That 2.25 lbs weight savings feels like 5 lbs of weight savings because of the more even balance and less forward weight, and it does swing to the point of aim MUCH faster than the old setup. I will concede that the weight likely had much more to do with the faster POA changes than the 2" length, but the shorter barrel does still help.....even if only a little.

Who is going to be spinning their AR? :D

deviljon
10-09-2012, 2:18 PM
Keep in mind that reducing the weight, especially at the muzzle, will also increase the recoil. Figure out what your GF will be using it for before going too extreme. In my experience, the felt recoil of a 14.5" barrel vs an 18" barrel is about the same as the difference between true 5.56 and commercial .223. 16" is somewhere in between.

-W

Good to know. Would a mid-length gas system and heavy buffer help?

goodlookin1
10-09-2012, 6:47 PM
This info is actually very helpful, I'm building a rifle for the girlfriend and was looking at a Spikes 14.5" pencil barrel with Dynacomp extreme. Also wanted to use a Seekins Precision SAR rail so overall the front end should be VERY light.

Mind if I ask what other adjustments were made to reduce the weight of the rifle?

Funny you should say that.....that was my exact build. I went from this:

http://rcmill.com/ryan/guns/basic.jpg

To this:

http://rcmill.com/ryan/guns/ar15/AR15_1_final.jpg

Basically it was a complete upper change. I didnt change anything about the lower...I have a Spikes ST-T2 Tungsten buffer and some other changes that dont really affect weight. But the upper was completely overhauled:

1) Semi auto carrier (little lighter, but not much....already had it lying around)
2) Seekins Precision 12.5" rail
3) Daniel Defense 14.5" light weight middy
4) Back to DI from the Adams Arms piston
5) Spikes Dynacomp Extreme pinned comp (actually pretty light compared to the effin a comp)

All in all, as you see it in the picture with an empty mag, it weighs about 7.5 lbs. The rifle alone weighs in somewhere right at 6 lbs, give or take an ounce.


My previous rifle shot very well and never had a single hiccup. But it was just too dang front heavy: Piston, rail gov't profile barrel, longer barrel all contibuted to an unbalanced and muchheavier feeling rifle. I still think it looks like a bad*** rifle, but I like the practicality of my new setup. Simpler, lighter, more "user friendly" setup.

As for recoil in the new setup, it feels not a single bit heavier. I was very pleasantly surprised! No harder kick, and the comp works amazingly well at keeping the muzzle on target for fast and accurate follow up shots. Certainly no different than my previous setup.

goodlookin1
10-09-2012, 6:52 PM
Who is going to be spinning their AR? :D

Smart*** :p

Transitioning from left to right in rapid succession from target to target, especially when the targets are far apart, is where you will notice a huge difference. Slow, front-heavy and unweildy rifles to not make for fast target aquisition when engaging multiple targets in different directions.

Obviously it doesnt matter if you're just shooting at a regular range though, so it is entirely possible that this trait is of no concern for many people.

goodlookin1
10-09-2012, 7:05 PM
Good to know. Would a mid-length gas system and heavy buffer help?

Midlength gas systems help to lower the cycling pressure of the rifle, and slightly slows down the rifle's dwell time. It basically makes the rifle more reliable.

A heavier buffer can help with stiffer loads, like higher pressure 5.56 rounds and will also help slow down the rifle's cycling/Rate of fire, but if it is too heavy, it can cause short stroking. Some buffers cause bolt bounce too, but that really only affects full auto fire.

My midlength barrel, Spikes ST-T2 Tungsten buffer and David Tubb Chrome Silicon Flat Wire Spring seems to be a perfect match for any of the ammo I threw at it: No short-stroking, yet not too light of a recoil system that results in the carrier hitting rearward with too much force. Ideally, you want only enough pressure to push the carrier back just enough to slip past the mag catch......any more than that results in a harder recoiling/more "jumpy" feeling rifle. The problem with getting it "perfect" is that when you change ammo, it will also change the pressure of the system and throw off the rifle's tuning. If you care so much as to get it perfect, then only use the same ammo all the time.

paintballdad
10-11-2012, 8:05 AM
It seems that if I continue with a lightweight 14.5" carbine build, the DD barrel might be my best and only choice. Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

For those that used a comp (Battlecomp, Effin A, etc) on their 14.5" build, how's the muzzle blast/noise compared to a FH? Was it considerably more?
I'm currently leaning towards a Smith Vortex or an AAC Blackout FH to pin on a 14.5" barrel.

MXRider
10-11-2012, 10:17 AM
I use a Battlecomp on one of my 16" BCM middies, and it is not too bad compared to say a Surefire brake, but is a bit worse than a standard A2.

BCM has a new comp coming out soon that looks like it might be the best of both at a reasonable price. It will come in 2 lengths, standard and long for making a 14.5" legal.

jingerale
10-11-2012, 10:27 AM
It seems that if I continue with a lightweight 14.5" carbine build, the DD barrel might be my best and only choice. Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

For those that used a comp (Battlecomp, Effin A, etc) on their 14.5" build, how's the muzzle blast/noise compared to a FH? Was it considerably more?
I'm currently leaning towards a Smith Vortex or an AAC Blackout FH to pin on a 14.5" barrel.

DD and BCM both have what you're looking for, except BCM is usually out of stock, at least when I was looking. Ended up with the DD.

Also keep in mind that if you ever want to go featureless, even the remote possibility, pick a comp that won't be considered a flash hider. I have a a Surefire MB556 pinned to my 14.5". that sucker is loud. Comparable to the Battlecomp on my 16".

paintballdad
10-11-2012, 10:47 AM
Also keep in mind that if you ever want to go featureless, even the remote possibility, pick a comp that won't be considered a flash hider.

I had thought about that but if i were to go featureless on one of my rifles it would more likely be the 16" midlenght and not this 14.5" lightweight build.
It's still a toss up at this point if i'll stick to a FH or a comp. Thanks.