PDA

View Full Version : AR15 Front Sight Ears: are yours even?


tenpercentfirearms
07-08-2007, 4:43 PM
I had a customer contact me and tell me, I do seem to have some kind of problem with my upper assembly. The
left side "ear" on the front sight base seems to either be bent or
improperly cast, and it gives the "sight picture" a strange lean to it, you
can't properly focus on the post to sight your target. What can be done
about his?

Now I haven't seen a picture of this bent ear, so I am not sure what the problem is yet. However, I just took a look at my Stag 1H, 2H, and 4H (he has a 4H) and I noticed that it appears that the left ear on all of them are slightly lower than the right ear. It almost looks like the right ear is larger even. I hadn't noticed that before.

Then I took my two CMMG 14.5" uppers and they kind of look the same. The left ear looks lower than the right ear.

Is this just a quirk in the AR15 that I never noticed before? I was just playing around with the guns in the shop here and it doesn't bother me because I am focused on the front sight so the ears don't mean much to me. However, my customer might be different and want them level.

I will encourage him to send me a picture if he can so we can figure out if this is just normal to all ARs or if he really does have a screwed up, bent ear and we have to ship it back to Stag.

So take a look at your ARs and tell me if you are seeing the same thing or if you know they are purposely made that way, let me know. Thanks.

ocabj
07-08-2007, 5:05 PM
http://www.ocabj.net/gallery/albums/misc_firearms/ar15_front_sight.jpg

Camera was slightly canted with respect to the rifle, but from this picture, you can tell the ears are basically even.

In my opinion, 'uneven' ears or 'non-symetrical' ears should not affect sight picture. All of my Garands have 'non-symetrical' front sight ears and I have no problems focusing on the front sight post.

bwiese
07-08-2007, 5:27 PM
Your ears should be even on both the rifle and your head. Certain exceptions may be made for scooter riders ;)

Are you sure the tops of the 'ears' are really different levels?

Perhaps the bbl is canted from overtorquing the bbl to the receiver during assembly - in which case, one ear will appear a tad higher than the other (and the front sight post will be slightly tilted too).

xenophobe
07-08-2007, 5:53 PM
If someone is going to get nitpicky, yes, front sight post ears are sometimes not milled or cast, or cast and milled perfectly symmetrical.

This is not a problem. It's being nitpicky and mostly n00bs who know little to nothing are greatly affected by this because they think everything should be freaking perfect.

Typical occurrence that is NOT a problem.

Response to a customer who is distressed by it should be "it's not a problem, it's typical, deal with it".

gn3hz3ku1*
07-08-2007, 6:23 PM
"it's not a problem, it's typical, deal with it"??

i think wes is trying to get repeat customers and referals

aplinker
07-08-2007, 7:33 PM
It's hard sometimes to get the proper sight picture if one's taller than the other. Or worse, if they wiggle their noses.

http://www.thereddragonhood.com/images/rabbit.jpg

PsychoTrucker
07-08-2007, 7:41 PM
:rofl:

Technical Ted
07-08-2007, 7:59 PM
I've come across a lot of front sight protective ears on new rifles that aren't even. Their purpose is to the protect the front sight post from getting bent. They are not used for sighting.

bigkahuna04
07-08-2007, 8:08 PM
It's hard sometimes to get the proper sight picture if one's taller than the other. Or worse, if they wiggle their noses.

http://www.thereddragonhood.com/images/rabbit.jpg

I just love the extraordinary humor on this site..:batman:....:laugh:

xenophobe
07-08-2007, 9:01 PM
"it's not a problem, it's typical, deal with it"??

i think wes is trying to get repeat customers and referals

Yes, but there comes a time where kissing an incontinent's *** is no longer only customer service...

tenpercentfirearms
07-08-2007, 9:26 PM
Yes, but there comes a time where kissing an incontinent's *** is no longer only customer service...

Xeno, I sent this guy the link, so try not to be a complete arse to the guy. You should be fully aware of the different types of customers. Some want everything perfect. That is fine. If they don't make it perfect, then there isn't much we can do for them, but you don't insult them in the process.

Hopefully he can send me some pictures and I can see if he has a really screwed up sight or if it is that slight variation I am noticing. After seeing it in both Stag and CMMG front sights, I am pretty sure this might be a common thing and a very particular customer. Again, there is nothing wrong with particular customers and working with them is how I have tried to build my business.

Scarecrow Repair
07-08-2007, 9:42 PM
I am pretty sure this might be a common thing and a very particular customer. Again, there is nothing wrong with particular customers and working with them is how I have tried to build my business.

And sometimes noobs are very particular about things that experienced hands ignore simply because they don't know what matters. Sometimes the best way to solve a problem is run it past someone who doesn't know jack, because the noon forces you to explain every last detail. This customer, if a noob, may simply have gone over his new toy with a fine tooth comb and found something that no veteran would even notice because it is so unimportant.

Technical Ted
07-08-2007, 10:00 PM
Hopefully he can send me some pictures and I can see if he has a really screwed up sight or if it is that slight variation I am noticing. After seeing it in both Stag and CMMG front sights, I am pretty sure this might be a common thing and a very particular customer. Again, there is nothing wrong with particular customers and working with them is how I have tried to build my business.
The easiest course of action to rectify the situation would be to replace the upper with one that meets his standards.

Second would be to contact the manufacturer and see if they will replace the upper or at least replace the barrel assembly.

As I've mentioned before, swapping the front sight base is more difficult than it seems due to the process in which the front sight and barrel are matched.

I've attached a scan of the jig used by Colt to drill the corresponding taper pin holes in the FSB and barrel.

Once again the key concern should be a vertically true front sight post.

xenophobe
07-08-2007, 11:31 PM
Xeno, I sent this guy the link, so try not to be a complete arse to the guy. You should be fully aware of the different types of customers. Some want everything perfect. That is fine. If they don't make it perfect, then there isn't much we can do for them, but you don't insult them in the process.

Sorry... my apologies for being an arse. It can't be helped. I'm hopeless :laugh:

aplinker
07-09-2007, 2:15 AM
Wes, I'm assuming you already educated him, but a lot of new shooters don't get that the ears are not a part of the sight picture and are to be completely ignored.

That's why I made the joke previously. I've even heard people at the range talking about where to put the ears for proper alignment. They're not supposed to matter!

BlackReef
07-09-2007, 2:57 AM
It's hard sometimes to get the proper sight picture if one's taller than the other. Or worse, if they wiggle their noses.

http://www.thereddragonhood.com/images/rabbit.jpg

I do u one better

http://fallingsky.blogs.com/falling_sky/HellsBunny-tm.jpg

kantstudien
07-09-2007, 2:58 AM
Give the guy a file, that will make everything symmetrical.

kap
07-09-2007, 6:54 AM
The left ear on my 2HT looks slightly smaller, but the difference is very small and it did not affect accuracy when I have shot with it.

Paratus et Vigilans
07-09-2007, 7:31 AM
I do u one better

http://fallingsky.blogs.com/falling_sky/HellsBunny-tm.jpg

LOL! Who's that, Harvey?? That's the biggest rabbit I've ever seen!

ocabj
07-09-2007, 7:56 AM
That rabbit looks like a minion of Satan.

383green
07-09-2007, 8:16 AM
I've attached a scan of the jig used by Colt to drill the corresponding taper pin holes in the FSB and barrel.


Neat! I'm really fascinated by the tooling used by manufacturers to make real things in real life, particularly where it differs from common vertical mills, engine lathes, etc. Do you know where I can find more pictures like that one?

Jicko
07-09-2007, 8:17 AM
Neat! I'm really fascinated by the tooling used by manufacturers to make real things in real life, particularly where it differs from common vertical mills, engine lathes, etc. Do you know where I can find more pictures like that one?

http://images.google.com/

tenpercentfirearms
07-11-2007, 9:06 PM
Here are the pictures my customer sent me. Stag is sending him a return tag and he is going to ship it back. Thanks for your input.

Technical Ted
07-11-2007, 9:13 PM
Here are the pictures my customer sent me. Stag is sending him a return tag and he is going to ship it back. Thanks for your input.
OMG!



That's typical. I've seen NIB Colt's and Bushmasters FSB's that are worse.

The first question is whether Stag will replace the FSB, the barrel assembly or the whole upper. The second question is if the repaired/replacement item won't have other problems.

One thing I noticed is that the front sight post is a standard rifle post and not the tapered post found on real Colt M4's.

tophatjones
07-11-2007, 9:15 PM
Sorry for thread crapping, but I don't like where the ar's pointed in that first photo.

383green
07-11-2007, 9:16 PM
Here are the pictures my customer sent me. Stag is sending him a return tag and he is going to ship it back. Thanks for your input.

Those ears do look pretty ugly. It wouldn't affect accuracy, but I can see why the customer would want it replaced.

Shane916
07-11-2007, 9:16 PM
Watch after all this he puts an EOTech on it lol :D

Technical Ted
07-11-2007, 9:22 PM
Watch after all this he puts an EOTech on it lol :D
or replaces it with a front flip up BUIS.

Technical Ted
07-11-2007, 9:32 PM
Do your ears hang low? Do they wobble to and fro?
Can you tie them in a knot? Can you tie them in a bow?

kap
07-11-2007, 10:00 PM
Here are the pictures my customer sent me. Stag is sending him a return tag and he is going to ship it back. Thanks for your input.

Wow, that is bad! Looks like Stag has a screwy casting mold.

ocabj
07-11-2007, 10:26 PM
I hope people realize that ears are going to get bent in the course of the life of the rifle. That's what they're designed for. To prevent damage to the front sight post. The sight ears are going to take the brunt of any impact if the front sight were to hit the ground, a wall, or other blunt object.

Technical Ted
07-11-2007, 10:29 PM
I hope people realize that ears are going to get bent in the course of the life of the rifle. That's what they're designed for. To prevent damage to the front sight post. The sight ears are going to take the brunt of any impact if the front sight were to hit the ground, a wall, or other blunt object.
Exactly.

fairfaxjim
07-11-2007, 11:04 PM
I hope people realize that ears are going to get bent in the course of the life of the rifle. That's what they're designed for. To prevent damage to the front sight post. The sight ears are going to take the brunt of any impact if the front sight were to hit the ground, a wall, or other blunt object.

Besides that, if they are focusing on the ears, they don't have a clue how to shoot that rifle.

Nordschleife
07-12-2007, 1:07 PM
My friend's RRA upper had uneven ears. Nothing a blowtorch and a pair of pliers couldn't solve.

Eventually he had it cut off for a flip up and Eotech.

cho034442
07-13-2007, 11:11 AM
On my Stag 2HT's front sight, right ear is fatter, but when looking through the peep hole, they are ok.